Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[Armagon]

Quote

Game Informer: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate includes substantially more fighters and stages than any other game in the series. Why did you decide to include so much content in this game in particular?

Masahiro Sakurai: This time, I worked with the same company and same team that worked on Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS titles. And in those titles, we were able to include quite a few fighters. So I thought, if we work a bit harder, we can make the dream of including all fighters come true, so we went for it.

There will be people who might feel disappointed if fighters that appeared in a previous title are not included. I didn’t want any players to feel that way, so we worked really hard to make this happen.

But what I learned is that regardless of doing our utmost, no matter how hard we try, and no matter how many fighters we include, there will always be people who feel that way.

Wow, that hurt. Sakurai's out here working himself to the bone while still knowing that he won't be able to please everybody. 

He deserves at least a 5 year vacation.

[Jedi]

Yeah poor Sakurai man, :/ 

Also in a more fun thing. 

[PeaceRibbon]

I don't remember Draug being so scaly. :P

[Zapp Branniglenn]

That's why I never grill smash for not having particular characters. Because I know my ideas aint worth shit if Sakurai can crank out something so creative from something nobody'd see coming like ROB or Plant.

But I WILL grill them for not having my favorite modes in the "ultimate" smash. Hey, I knew there wasn't much hope for Btt after Smash 4, but you can't just take out HRC and leave in the sandbag as an item. It's sadistic and it aint right.

[TheGoodHoms]

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

Wow, that hurt. Sakurai's out here working himself to the bone while still knowing that he won't be able to please everybody. 

This is why my blood boils when I see so many people complaining about characters that are "missing" from the roster despite the fact that we already have a roster far bigger than anything we deserve and the fact that Sakurai told us not to expect tons of newcomers and they still expected the world from him anyway.

[Lord_Brand]

I'm sympathetic towards both Keiji and the fans. Everyone has characters they really wanted and characters they couldn't care less for. If you wanted Shantae in there but don't care about Fire Emblem, then having yet another FE character probably feels like a waste of a slot (though if I'm not mistaken, the only new FE rep out of the gate this time is Chrom, and therefore an Echo Fighter, correct?) Personally, I would have taken Shantae or Krystal over Incineroar, but keeping my prior point in mind I'm not going to call him a wasted slot because there are probably fans of Incineroar who are pleased to see him in there. And while it is unfortunate that certain characters like Shantae and Krystal have made their debut as ATs or Spirits rather than PFs, I applaud Keiji for implementing Spirits as a way of involving more characters somehow, beyond Assist Trophies (and let's not forget that certain fighters like Charizard and Little Mac started out as non-player characters in this series). The fact we've seen Spirit variants of playable characters like K. Rool and Samus gives me hope for the half-genie hero yet. After all, it makes sense her Spirit uses existing art; if (and hopefully, when) she becomes playable, she'll get new art for this game.

That said, if any of the DLC end up being yet another Pokemon or FE rep, you can expect there will be very vocal complaints. It's about time Zelda got a new rep or two.

[Shiki]

You know what confuses me a bit?

This is the list of offically recognized Echo Fighters:

Spoiler

Dark Samus
Daisy
Lucina
Chrom
Dark Pit
Ken
Richter

But why aren't these characters considered Echo Fighters as well?

Spoiler

Luigi (Mario clone)
Young Link (Link clone)
Toon Link (Link clone)
Pichu (Pikachu clone)
Falco (Fox clone)
Ganondorf (Cpt. Falcon clone)
Wolf (Fox clone)
Lukas (Ness clone)
Roy

(Marth clone)

It's kinda weird that we didn't get more echo designations despite Lucina and Dark Pit getting them. I mean Sakurai himself jokes about Luigi being the first Echo ever in relation to Mario.

Edited November 22, 2018 by The Priest

[Florete]

43 minutes ago, The Priest said:

Lukas (Lukas clone)

There are some strange mistakes here.

I believe Sakurai didn't want to consider any pre-Smash 4 clones to be echo fighters. Plus, how would you handle the Links? Would Toon Link be an echo of Young Link or vice versa? Would they both be Link echoes?

[Jedi]

1 hour ago, The Priest said:

You know what confuses me a bit?

This is the list of offically recognized Echo Fighters:

  Hide contents

Dark Samus
Daisy
Lucina
Chrom
Dark Pit
Ken
Richter

 

But why aren't these characters considered Echo Fighters as well?

  Hide contents

Luigi (Mario clone)
Young Link (Link clone)
Toon Link (Link clone)
Pichu (Pikachu clone)
Falco (Fox clone)
Ganondorf (Cpt. Falcon clone)
Wolf (Fox clone)
Lukas (Lukas clone)
Roy

 

(Marth clone)

It's kinda weird that we didn't get more echo designations despite Lucina and Dark Pit getting them. I mean Sakurai himself jokes about Luigi being the first Echo ever in relation to Mario.

Luigi, YL, Tink, Pichu, Falco, Dorf, Wolf, Lucas and Roy are so signifcantly different by this point (Wolf and Lucas started unique even that calling any of them even remotely a clone is vastly misinformed.

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, The Priest said:

You know what confuses me a bit?

This is the list of offically recognized Echo Fighters:

  Hide contents

Dark Samus
Daisy
Lucina
Chrom
Dark Pit
Ken
Richter

 

But why aren't these characters considered Echo Fighters as well?

  Hide contents

Luigi (Mario clone)
Young Link (Link clone)
Toon Link (Link clone)
Pichu (Pikachu clone)
Falco (Fox clone)
Ganondorf (Cpt. Falcon clone)
Wolf (Fox clone)
Lukas (Lukas clone)
Roy

 

(Marth clone)

It's kinda weird that we didn't get more echo designations despite Lucina and Dark Pit getting them. I mean Sakurai himself jokes about Luigi being the first Echo ever in relation to Mario.

Because it turns out, a character is an Echo fighter if Sakurai says so. He said this in his latest Famitsu column i believe.

----------

ANYWAY, appearntly someone has gotten an early copy of the game, be warned. It's an unconfirmed report but still be careful.

[Shiki]

2 hours ago, Florete said:

I believe Sakurai didn't want to consider any pre-Smash 4 clones to be echo fighters. Plus, how would you handle the Links? Would Toon Link be an echo of Young Link or vice versa? Would they both be Link echoes?

I don't see the problem with designating them both as Link echoes. There isn't a rule that forces every Fighter to have only 1 Echo of them.
Looking at Chrom he would technically be the 3rd Marth alt, so it wouldn't change much.

I get that the clone complaints were loud about both of them (especially in case of Pitwo) but it seems very strange to introduce a designation but not apply it universally for older characters.

2 hours ago, Ashen Jedi said:

Luigi, YL, Tink, Pichu, Falco, Dorf, Wolf, Lucas and Roy are so signifcantly different by this point (Wolf and Lucas started unique even that calling any of them even remotely a clone is vastly misinformed.

Chrom and arguably Ken refute your point by having different moves to Roy and Ryu respectively despite being treated as Echo Fighters. That's about as much change compared to all of the above who still share some animations with the source character.
The only one who I might concede on is Wolf because even back in Brawl he functioned very differently on a fundamental level, compared to either Fox or Falco.

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

Because it turns out, a character is an Echo fighter if Sakurai says so. He said this in his latest Famitsu column i believe.

Are you referring to the Isabelle article?

Edited November 22, 2018 by The Priest

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 minute ago, The Priest said:

I don't see the problem with designating them both as Link echoes. There isn't a rule that forces every Fighter to have only 1 Echo of them.

There may just be as a UI concern, actually. The character select has to accommodate the option to have an echo inside the existing character's portrait. At all times, both characters are displayed in that character icon, so maybe there can't be two echos for one original character due to lack of room.

[Florete]

1 hour ago, The Priest said:

Chrom and arguably Ken refute your point by having different moves to Roy and Ryu respectively despite being treated as Echo Fighters. That's about as much change compared to all of the above who still share some animations with the source character.
The only one who I might concede on is Wolf because even back in Brawl he functioned very differently on a fundamental level, compared to either Fox or Falco.

Chrom has one different move. One. I'm not sure about Ken, though.

Luigi and Lucas are so different from Mario and Ness it really is unreasonable to call them clones. Even Falco and Ganondorf have come so far that I wouldn't be surprised if new players couldn't tell their movesets were based on other characters.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Florete

[Jedi]

2 hours ago, The Priest said:

 

Chrom and arguably Ken refute your point by having different moves to Roy and Ryu respectively despite being treated as Echo Fighters. That's about as much change compared to all of the above who still share some animations with the source character.

Ah yes, I guess Samus and Falcon are clones in that vein then since they have a similar utilt, and Puff and Kirby sharing a move or 2 will make them clones as well, how vastly stupid of me not to conceed on such moronic details.

Look a clone would have mostly the same playstyle, even Young Link and Toon Link don't have that in this game despite being sort of close in appearence. Their moves have differeing animations from each other and Adult Link, they have different functions, they have different utilities. Folks like Doc and Pichu have different moves now from the people they spawned from, and Roy, Ganondorf, Luigi and Falco have massively diverged from what they once were.

If you're just gonna be blind and throw a blanket statement though, then fine, I have nothing further to say to you.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Ashen Jedi

[Anomalocaris]

The only characters I'm dubious on not being considered Echoes are Pichu and Dr. Mario. Pichu's moveset is identical to Pikachu's as far as I can tell, and Dr. Mario only has two fully different moves from Mario (D-Air and D-Special).

But it does seem like a hesitation to call anyone from before Smash 4 an Echo moreso than anything else.

[Shiki]

2 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

There may just be as a UI concern, actually. The character select has to accommodate the option to have an echo inside the existing character's portrait. At all times, both characters are displayed in that character icon, so maybe there can't be two echos for one original character due to lack of room.

Ah, right, they actually showcased that.

47 minutes ago, Florete said:

Chrom has one different move. One. I'm not sure about Ken, though.

Luigi and Lucas are so different from Mario and Ness it really is unreasonable to call them clones. Even Falco and Ganondorf have come so far that I wouldn't be surprised if new players couldn't tell their movesets were based on other characters.

Some of his smashes and tilts look different (e.g. Up smash) at places but I heard that they apparently behave the same despite the animations, so maybe Chrom is just Roy with a different Up special (as in he will probably suck because RIP recovery). It is at least confirmed that he is the Lucina to Roy as she is to Marth, as in he doesn't have sweet spots on his Falchion and deals damage consistently. ... but didn't they buff Roy's sweet spots? Chrom, what is the point of you?

22 minutes ago, Ashen Jedi said:

Ah yes, I guess Samus and Falcon are clones in that vein then since they have a similar utilt, and Puff and Kirby sharing a move or 2 will make them clones as well, how vastly stupid of me not to conceed on such moronic details.

22 minutes ago, Ashen Jedi said:

If you're just gonna be blind and throw a blanket statement though, then fine, I have nothing further to say to you.

I have forgotten that it doesn't take much to make Smash enthusiasts offended. It's not like you could have put a sock over it from the start if you can't be bothered by a simple speculation that you apparently perceive as some kind of insult.

27 minutes ago, Ashen Jedi said:

Look a clone would have mostly the same playstyle, even Young Link and Toon Link don't have that in this game despite being sort of close in appearence. Their moves have differeing animations from each other and Adult Link, they have different functions, they have different utilities. Folks like Doc and Pichu have different moves now from the people they spawned from, and Roy, Ganondorf, Luigi and Falco have massively diverged from what they once were.

At least Pichu would fall under your criteria as a clone. Aside from a smaller hitbox and the self-damage gimmick for rage stuff it really doesn't seem much different to Pikachu. It doesn't have that many different moves to set it apart from its evolution and while massively buffed the comparision to Pikachu aren't that far off.
Also Ken is one of the new Echo fighters so I don't think their definition is that narrow.

If anything it seemed more like a safe move for them to make Lucina and Pit into Echo Fighters as people perceived them as actual clones compared to previous fighters. I still remember the complaints about them during their initial reveal.

[NinjaMonkey]

5 hours ago, The Priest said:

I don't see the problem with designating them both as Link echoes.

Considering that they changed how Link works for Ultimate, I don't think you can really call Young Link and Toon Link echoes of Link anymore.

Edited November 22, 2018 by NinjaMonkey

[Armagon]

8 hours ago, The Priest said:

Are you referring to the Isabelle article?

No, i'm refering to the Ken article (which does further explain why Isabelle isn't an Echo).

[Armagon]

Hey uh

Be careful out there folks.

[Dai]

39 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Hey uh

Be careful out there folks.

Too early?! Talk about an understatement!

[Zapp Branniglenn]

oof, I thought it was just a rumor. I do NOT want the final boss spoiled for me.

But if there's any hidden modes that they neglected to announce, y'know, I wouldn't mind...Especially if they rhyme with Cross Tattles or Rake the Carpets.

[Anomalocaris]

9 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

oof, I thought it was just a rumor. I do NOT want the final boss spoiled for me.

But if there's any hidden modes that they neglected to announce, y'know, I wouldn't mind...Especially if they rhyme with Cross Tattles or Rake the Carpets.

Sorry, you only get a hidden mode that rhymes with Stache Boar.

[PeaceRibbon]

54 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

Sorry, you only get a hidden mode that rhymes with Stache Boar.

... how about no. I think we should get The Shoelace Aviary Redux. 

[Perkilator]

3 hours ago, Anomalocaris said:

Sorry, you only get a hidden mode that rhymes with Stache Boar.

Huh…that’s an interesting way to spell Hash Bun.

[Michelaar]

Omg. My favourite music is in the game!!

Spoiler