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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish


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Now that Ultimate has been out for a while, who is your favorite newcomer?  

74 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is your favorite base game (and Piranha Plant) newcomer?

  2. 2. Who is your favorite new Echo Fighter?

  3. 3. Who is your favorite Fighters Pass 1 character?



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Isabelle is nice for the AC fans, happy for you all. Was into the series a long time ago but have since departed.

I have heard of Isabelle though so I’m not entirely surprised.

Her being the first semi clone (she’s more like Wolf or Lucas though so semi isn’t even accurate she’s part like Villager). Is interesting because people figured we would get any.

Dixie Kong and Tails fans have regained their breath. In their hopes, heck some of the Shadow vs Tails people are even suggesting we’ll get both but I find that highly unlikely.

This raises an interesting possibility for Ken however who diverged from Ryu a bit since their original introduction. Maybe he’d be like Isabelle, of course this is pure speculation.

Edited by Jedi
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5 hours ago, The DanMan said:

A list of Isabelle's similarities and differences to Villager that's floating around gamefaqs:

-Same dash attack, but different cosmetically
-Same grab
-Same Neutral B
-Same Up B, but different cosmetically
-Same Final Smash, but different cosmetically

-Different Forward Smash (the party popper it looked like)
-Different Up Smash (the stop sign)
-Different Down Smash (the water bucket)
-Different Up Tilt (the broom)
-Different Side B (the fishing rod)
-Different Down B (plants a lloyd rocket and shoots it straight up)

Add to that a different N-Air (Pom-Poms!) and I can confirm everything else. The Lloyd Down B also appears to be a proximity mine in function. Honestly I don't really find Semi-Clone to be an accurate term for her. Yeah she shares a final smash with villager but so did Zelda and Sheik for two games. The only copy pasted moves are Pocket and the bug catching net grab. Even if we find out every other move is just a different cosmetic version of villagers she'd still be less of a clone than Luigi at this point which is impressive.

But really most of my hype for Isabelle comes from the dual announcement of the new Animal Crossing game. What showmanship. 

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1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

Add to that a different N-Air (Pom-Poms!) and I can confirm everything else. The Lloyd Down B also appears to be a proximity mine in function. Honestly I don't really find Semi-Clone to be an accurate term for her. Yeah she shares a final smash with villager but so did Zelda and Sheik for two games. The only copy pasted moves are Pocket and the bug catching net grab. Even if we find out every other move is just a different cosmetic version of villagers she'd still be less of a clone than Luigi at this point which is impressive.

But really most of my hype for Isabelle comes from the dual announcement of the new Animal Crossing game. What showmanship. 

We don't need more than 3 terms: echo, semi-clone, and unique. Isabelle definitely falls into semi-clone territory. At least three attacks are clear copies and some others look to possibly have the same functionality.

I'm also wondering about her down special; it looks like it may be a similar concept with different functionality. The water bucket looks like it could be a replacement for Villager's watering can. It's still definitely pretty different, but since it's similar in concept to the character she already shares other moves with, it makes it slightly more clear that she's partially based on Villager.

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Since Luig's new Poltergust that appeared in Simon's and Richter's Reveal Trailer in Ultimate from the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Direct and it is now shown in the new Luigi's Mansion 3 trailer. And plus, that New Donk City, Cappy, Mario's alternate Wedding Costume, the Great Plateu Tower, Link's Breath of the Wild costume, and the Snipperclippers music were included in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I'm absolutely think that we could probably see Rex, Pyra, and Mythra from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 possibly likely to be added as newcomers in Ultimate before December 7th along with Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, and Octolings.

Edited by King Marth 64
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10 hours ago, Edgelord said:

While that may be true, and I do think that he has at least one source that is somewhat privy to information, the dude has been wrong (or has been omitting things that would seemingly be obvious) about things specifically relating to other games before. It's worth keeping in mind.

Trust me, I'm fully aware his overall track record is mixed at best; it's just that so far he's been pretty on the money. And hey, if he gets something wrong than at least it wasn't leaked and there's more of a surprise factor to it.

6 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Add to that a different N-Air (Pom-Poms!) and I can confirm everything else. The Lloyd Down B also appears to be a proximity mine in function. Honestly I don't really find Semi-Clone to be an accurate term for her. Yeah she shares a final smash with villager but so did Zelda and Sheik for two games. The only copy pasted moves are Pocket and the bug catching net grab. Even if we find out every other move is just a different cosmetic version of villagers she'd still be less of a clone than Luigi at this point which is impressive.

But really most of my hype for Isabelle comes from the dual announcement of the new Animal Crossing game. What showmanship. 

Wolf and Lucas both have largely different movesets and specials that, while similar, behave differently; though Isabelle has a lot unique, she's still clearly based on Villager with several identical/near-identical moves.

Semi-clone isn't a bad place for a character to be.

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Isabelle is alright, and her moveset does look fairly interesting. I'll probably try out her as a fighter, but she probably won't be any of my mains. 

Personally, I was hoping Captain Toad would be announced as a new fighter. That may sound ridiculous, but I recently saw this video a guy did showing off a possible moveset for Captain Toad:

 

But oh well; perhaps he'll be in the next reveal. Speaking of which, when do you think the next reveal will be?

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Starting to wonder if they have an internal rule of one echo per character. Probably as a UI concern for when character select is set to display the echo in the top right corner? Anyway, lately I've been wanting a Charlie echo of Olimar who also has skins for the President and the purple pikmin are replaced with rock pikmin. Really if they wanted, all six captains could be grafted onto Olimar's model with no changes in pikmin loadout. The only real difference in body type being Charlie and the President being pretty big guys compared to the other four. Pikmin captains are more interchangeable than Fire Emblem Lords. Would be cool to see all six appear in Smash similar to all the Koopalings showing up. But having them all be skins of Olimar would make for pretty hectic skin selection if they all get four recolors.

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Isabelle was really disappointing as a reveal. I don’t remember ever not feeling at least a little excited for a new character announcement but Isabelle is now the unfortunate character that takes that prize.

I will admit though, I would have much preferred Tom Nook as the new AC representative than Isabelle. He just seems so much more iconic and more interesting that I’m a bit letdown that he wasn’t at least announced as an echo fighter during his segment.

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12 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

Since Luig's new Poltergust that appeared in Simon's and Richter's Reveal Trailer in Ultimate from the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Direct and it is now shown in the new Luigi's Mansion 3 trailer. And plus, that New Donk City, Cappy, Mario's alternate Wedding Costume, the Great Plateu Tower, Link's Breath of the Wild costume, and the Snipperclippers music were included in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I'm absolutely think that we could probably see Rex, Pyra, and Mythra from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 possibly likely to be added as newcomers in Ultimate before December 7th along with Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, and Octolings.

Makes sense, but I personally would believe that aesthetic things like that and music is a far simpler thing to make happen on short notice than building and balancing an entire character. However, I'd be lying if I didn't say it's more like wishful thinking influenced by my disdain for XBC2 character designs and how boringly generic I find Spring Man. That said, if those characters aren't there for launch, I totally expect them as DLC.

Isabelle's cool, and I'm looking forward to the next reveal, which I suspect we'd get like a character trailer in October (a la Robin/Lucina), and a last big direct in November. At this point, I'm expecting Elma, Geno, a pokemon of some kind, and a bunch of echoes/not-quite-echoes, particularly Ken and Dixie Kong.

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Some are now theorizing Tails has a chance as a fighter like Isabelle. Taking some small base moves from Sonic while having mostly his own moves. Plus he was a mii costume, more and more of those keep getting promoted to playable, AT or otherwise.

Shadow is also still looking like a likely echo choice.

Is there a possibility we’d get both?

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The rumor mill and general speculation is honestly the most fun part of Ultimate's pre-release for me; with how fast paced it's been compared to Smash 4 + all the intrigue with seemingly legit and partially-legit leakers, on top of each new reveal upending expectations in it's own way... it's the perfect atmosphere to have fun and theorize away in. 

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A few predictions.

Also, I don't look at leaks and I don't want to follow them because I don't want my predictions skewed by them. I'm going by my own gut and logic here. So please, don't use any leaks to debate my arguments.

I think we're getting a single reveal trailer in October with #69 and then a final Smash Direct in November with #70, #71 and #72. Yes, I'm sticking with my 72 numbered characters prediction. It's a nice, round number to end the base roster. Echoes could go anywhere, but I'm leaned to 12 total.

I don't think we're getting Geno in the base game. I feel he is a character that could be purposely saved for DLC given how big his fanbase is, and Squeenix will definitely want that extra cash.

I legitimately believe Shantae will be in the game. If not playable, then an Assist Trophy, and if not that, then a trophy in the gallery. There's just way too much circumstantial evidence for her not to be in at all, and if by the time all is said and done with SSBU she's still not there, I'm done with WayForward if they don't give the fans a proper explanation. You don't rally up the fans with a Smash campaign and then sweep everything under the rug. You just don't.

I think at least one Echo fighter will be based on a character from a different series. Sakurai could use that to get a retro character in (like Mach Rider as a Captain Falcon Echo), and I also want to latch to my pipe dream of Micaiah being a Zelda echo.

I honestly believe Tails has a better chance of being in than Shadow, echo or not. I feel his fanbase and importance far outclass those of Shadow, even if Shadow would be easier to model after Sonic.

One series that has kinda grown on me recently is Puyo Puyo, and I would love seeing it in Smash as the third SEGA series represented. Getting Arle as a playable character would be pretty sweet (as slim as those chances are) and a nice gift to the Japanese Smash fanbase (where she is pretty popular), not to mention a moveset based on Puyo popping could be quite interesting. If not that, at least put in a Puyo Puyo character as an Assist Trophy.

The last revealed character in the base roster (#72 in my case, not counting Echoes) will be a 3rd party from a new franchise. Mark my words.

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Well then...

I'm just going to spoilertag this, because if real it could be big:


https://smashboards.com/threads/based-on-the-special-edition-box-the-only-remaining-characters-are-ken-one-final-newcomer.458449/#post-22431356

I'm honestly 60-40 on this. It could ultimately mean nothing but I also wouldn't get my hopes up.

A post from Vaanrose (who was one of the guys in on what would become the ESRB leak) that more concisely summarizes things:
https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-ultimate-discussion.434391/page-4493#post-22431942 

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8 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I thought I was the only one who wanted this to happen. I'm glad to see I'm not alone. Quick Question: down special: Sothe or Black Knight?

Definitely Black Knight. Perfect sub for the Phantom. Sothe could be her Final Smash like the old Robin one.

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1 hour ago, The DanMan said:

Well then...

I'm just going to spoilertag this, because if real it could be big:

  Hide contents


https://smashboards.com/threads/based-on-the-special-edition-box-the-only-remaining-characters-are-ken-one-final-newcomer.458449/#post-22431356

I'm honestly 60-40 on this. It could ultimately mean nothing but I also wouldn't get my hopes up.

A post from Vaanrose (who was one of the guys in on what would become the ESRB leak) that more concisely summarizes things:
https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-ultimate-discussion.434391/page-4493#post-22431942 

 

Spoiler

Yeeeeaaaaah, i don't think i buy that theory. It's like trying to gauge how many newcomers there will be based on the spots on the website.

 

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8 hours ago, Armagon said:
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Yeeeeaaaaah, i don't think i buy that theory. It's like trying to gauge how many newcomers there will be based on the spots on the website.

 

 

Here's the thing: as the second post points out, it follows a very specific methodology:

"The box theory isn't based on Verg. It doesn't even technically require him to be correct.

Characters are divided into chunks of nine. This is fact. We can see this pattern in the side of the box we can see. Luigi is the 10th character (after the OG8+Dark Samus), and 9 characters brings us to Sheik. Then there's a gap of exactly 9 missing characters, and then we see Roy through Snake. This repeats the whole way down.

Except for the gap between Mii Fighter and Corrin, which is only 8 characters.

It's probably Ken, but it could, conceivably, be Medusa or the Pac Man ghosts or Zack Fair or whoever. As long as its an echo of one of those eight characters, it fills the gap.

That's the key point to the theory. The characters on the side we see require there to be an unannounced character on the other side in order to be listed the way they are. This suggests that the order is pre-planned and not just something that was thrown together by someone who only knows the currently announced characters."

It's very specific and deliberate methodology; nothing is random about it.

Plus, it perfectly lines up with the Smashdown theory; because Smash down can be played by up to 4 players, some people thought the final number of characters would need to be a multiple of 12 (since it has to be divisible by both 4 and 3). 72 and 84 were both brought up, but 72 was considered too few and 84 was considered too much. ...Yet here we have something that perfectly meshes with it and goes with the lower option. Plus, Sakurai has repeatedly told us to keep our expectations low-- E3 was "don't expect too many characters" and the end of the Smash Direct was "there's only a few characters left"; 3 (counting Isabelle) is a few.

It could be wrong or mean nothing, but I'm on the "more likely than not" train.

Edited by The DanMan
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4 minutes ago, Perkilator said:

Very likely is. Character like Sonic aren’t even shown on the box.

Yeah, you're right. I know the special edition is real, but I don't think using that to say how many more newcomers we'll be getting is very accurate. We ARE getting kinda close to release though.

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25 minutes ago, Perkilator said:

Very likely is. Character like Sonic aren’t even shown on the box.

Are you kidding me?

"Characters are divided into chunks of nine. This is fact. We can see this pattern in the side of the box we can see. Luigi is the 10th character (after the OG8+Dark Samus), and 9 characters brings us to Sheik. Then there's a gap of exactly 9 missing characters, and then we see Roy through Snake. This repeats the whole way down.

Except for the gap between Mii Fighter and Corrin, which is only 8 characters.

It's probably Ken, but it could, conceivably, be Medusa or the Pac Man ghosts or Zack Fair or whoever. As long as its an echo of one of those eight characters, it fills the gap.

That's the key point to the theory. The characters on the side we see require there to be an unannounced character on the other side in order to be listed the way they are. This suggests that the order is pre-planned and not just something that was thrown together by someone who only knows the currently announced characters."

That's the entire reason why it seems legit-- there's a logical order to what characters are listed on the side we see, letting it easily be assumed what's on the side we don't see.

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