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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish


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Now that Ultimate has been out for a while, who is your favorite newcomer?  

74 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is your favorite base game (and Piranha Plant) newcomer?

  2. 2. Who is your favorite new Echo Fighter?

  3. 3. Who is your favorite Fighters Pass 1 character?



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3 hours ago, Armagon said:

I'm not buying these leaks yet because the last time we had a leak, it turned out to be an elaborate hoax.

I find it hard to believe that's there's already coding in the game that supposedly reveals who the second DLC character is. They haven't even started on Joker yet, let alone anyone else.

It makes sense for Pirahana Plant to have coding in the game already since he's almost finished but for everyone else? Nah. 

 

They didn't have him in a presentable state for the VGAs; that doesn't mean they didn't start on him yet.

Multiple different dataminers have put out there; there's code for "Plant" and "Jack" in the game-- including landing lag, weight, speed, etc, heck even minutae like if they can wall jump (Joker can) and have rapid jabs (both do) . As well as our spoiler character

"Brave"


with the same data.

Plus, remember: the majority of Smash 4's DLC characters were released alongside another one. June had the triple whammy of Lucas, Roy, and Ryu, while Bayonetta and Corrin both launched in February. I don't think it's unreasonable that Joker and the one we aren't supposed to know about yet could be launching at the same time.

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I think the datamine leaks are real.

Spoiler

Dragon Quest seems like the most likely and worthy non-represented franchise by Square for Smash.

 

I think the rumor leaks are fake.

Spoiler

Doom Guy seems implausible and Ryu Hyubusa even less likely. I'm not sure if Ninja Gaiden is even relevant enough in the modern market to pick.

 

And I really want Steve to be fake, for fuck's sake.

 

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7 minutes ago, Etheus said:

I think the datamine leaks are real.

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Dragon Quest seems like the most likely and worthy non-represented franchise by Square for Smash.

 

I think the rumor leaks are fake.

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Doom Guy seems implausible and Ryu Hyubusa even less likely. I'm not sure if Ninja Gaiden is even relevant enough in the modern market to pick.

 

And I really want Steve to be fake, for fuck's sake.

 

 

One of the higher-ups at Bethesda outright said they'd talked Smash with Nintendo not too long ago. 

https://nintendoeverything.com/pete-hines-on-bethesdas-relationship-with-nintendo-exclusives-and-smash-bros/
Finally, the interviewer couldn’t resist asking whether Bethesda has talked to Nintendo about Smash Bros. Hines simply said the following: "Oh yeah."

Doom itself was the first Bethesda port to Switch and did well enough that Doom Eternal is launching on it. It also has some historical significance, basically being the father of the FPS genre alongside Wolfenstein. And if the Smash team can make Bayonetta work, why can't they make the good ol' Doom Marine work?

Hayabusa's definitely the odd one out, though he's both classic and hardcore enough that I don't find him to be unfeasible-- again, just the odd one out.

And Minecraft is the second most prolific game in existence behind only Tetris; it's also been doing decently in Japan and is one of exceedingly few games Sakurai has written Famitsu columns about, saying it's one of the rare games that keeps him coming back. So not only is it gigantic, but Sakurai's also a fan.

Grain of salt to be sure, but none of the picks feel unfeasible.

Edited by The DanMan
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25 minutes ago, The DanMan said:
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One of the higher-ups at Bethesda outright said they'd talked Smash with Nintendo not too long ago. 

https://nintendoeverything.com/pete-hines-on-bethesdas-relationship-with-nintendo-exclusives-and-smash-bros/
Finally, the interviewer couldn’t resist asking whether Bethesda has talked to Nintendo about Smash Bros. Hines simply said the following: "Oh yeah."

Doom itself was the first Bethesda port to Switch and did well enough that Doom Eternal is launching on it. It also has some historical significance, basically being the father of the FPS genre alongside Wolfenstein. And if the Smash team can make Bayonetta work, why can't they make the good ol' Doom Marine work?

Hayabusa's definitely the odd one out, though he's both classic and hardcore enough that I don't find him to be unfeasible-- again, just the odd one out.

And Minecraft is the second most prolific game in existence behind only Tetris; it's also been doing decently in Japan and is one of exceedingly few games Sakurai has written Famitsu columns about, saying it's one of the rare games that keeps him coming back. So not only is it gigantic, but Sakurai's also a fan.

Grain of salt to be sure, but none of the picks feel unfeasible.

Spoiler

I guess you're right about Doom Guy. He is undoubtedly the best representation of the shooter genre, as Halo has become basically irrelevant over the past couple releases and Doom's role in founding gaming's most popular genre can't be understanded.

 

I get the case for Minecraft. I do. But I also don't want it at all, and I don't see any indication that Nintendo and Microsoft are working together in a meaningful sense.

 

Ryu Hyubusa is just odd on many levels. I know that Nintendo has worked with KT on the Warriors games, but is KT really a worthwhile company to bridge into Smash and is Ninja Gaiden anything more than a cult classic?

 

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1 hour ago, Etheus said:
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I guess you're right about Doom Guy. He is undoubtedly the best representation of the shooter genre, as Halo has become basically irrelevant over the past couple releases and Doom's role in founding gaming's most popular genre can't be understanded.

 

I get the case for Minecraft. I do. But I also don't want it at all, and I don't see any indication that Nintendo and Microsoft are working together in a meaningful sense.

 

Ryu Hyubusa is just odd on many levels. I know that Nintendo has worked with KT on the Warriors games, but is KT really a worthwhile company to bridge into Smash and is Ninja Gaiden anything more than a cult classic?

 

 

Halo's got console exclusivity which makes it a much bigger deal and much less likely to happen. The series still does pretty well, it's just the vocal minority complaining-- the series still doesn't have a single major release that's sold less than 5 million. There's just so much more in the way of shooters since Halo 3 launched in 2007; CoD exploded that same year, with the turn of the generation bringing about Destiny-- and not long after, Overwatch and stuff like the Doom and Wolfenstein revivals. It's a lot less ubiquitous now-- it's just part of the crowd.

Minecraft, meanwhile, is available on literally everything and MS has taken a rather hands-off approach with it. I don't think working with Nintendo has to be some sort pre-requisite.

Hayabusa would be surprising while still being somewhat recognizable, so I don't think he'd have poor reception or anything; but again, he really is the odd man out.

Edited by The DanMan
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All the leaks and rumours are boring to me. I get that Smash has evolved beyond "Nintendo All Stars" but these characters are so... meh.

Yeah, DQ is a big deal in Japan and if Erdrick had been in the base roster I wouldn't mind, but I'm not tempted to pay extra for him like I would be for say Sora or a Bravely character or a second FF rep.

Doom Guy bores me as I'm not into shooters at all. For a "mature" rep, why not someone from Resident Evil? Or a first party rep like someone from Eternal Darkness? Yeah it would be less of an "iconic" factor but I think hardcore Nintendo fans would be more excited.

A Ninja Gaiden rep doesn't make sense to me, I guess it's iconic and fills the classic character role... But so would Takamaru or Prince Sable or Isaac at this point, if only they weren't all assists.

And then there's Steve, who I don't think anyone really wants but kind of just accept because he would please young fans. Fair point but young fans would be excited for pretty much anyone billed as a cool new fighter, so why not Banjo instead?

And the fact that all the rumoured characters are third parties just makes it even worse imo. So many Nintendo stars still waiting their turn and these are their choices? I would be really dumbfounded. I realize they can't please everyone with their picks, but when not even one of them gets me excited to buy the DLC, and generally the reactions to the leaks are lukewarm at best (more "yeah this makes sense for business reasons" and not "take my money!"), I can't say they made good picks.

 

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FYI, the whole DLC character "list" is unrelated to the other JP forum post that called a Granblue Fighting Game as well as Joker and the other datamined character in Smash; people have been conflating the two, which is how it's spread.

Considering how heavily rumored the other character has been, it doesn't really have much going for it-- just piggybacking.

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For datamines, should Nintendo and others expect them to happen? So couldn't they use code names in the coding? Nobody would be able to guess what the term CHAIR would mean.

Then again, they could simply not care. Reasonable, since only the dedicated are going to pay attention to datamines and rumors and leaks and whatnot. How many of the millions of players and buyers would? And what would it even really do to the DLC sales figures?

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22 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

For datamines, should Nintendo and others expect them to happen? So couldn't they use code names in the coding? Nobody would be able to guess what the term CHAIR would mean.

Then again, they could simply not care. Reasonable, since only the dedicated are going to pay attention to datamines and rumors and leaks and whatnot. How many of the millions of players and buyers would? And what would it even really do to the DLC sales figures?

There are reasons you wouldn't want to use something super generic like "Chair" in coding, unless you're referring specifically to a chair. You would want something recognizable and specific to whatever you're coding for.

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So, can someone explain to me why Peach and Daisy are considered top tier? I've seen this a few times and it really confuses me because I think they're bad. They don't have enough power imo, or range. Or speed either, as they don't feel that fast. I consistently have trouble getting KOs at all with Daisy and that's the worst part.

I don't think I'm playing her wrong. Air game here seems important because d-air with the floaty-ness is good. She has to get in your face because of the lack of range so I try to do that. And so on.

Maybe she just doesn't fit me and I should drop her... And that would be a shame because I love Daisy and wanted her in Smash for years.

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1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

So, can someone explain to me why Peach and Daisy are considered top tier?

That is an excellent question, I don't think she got so many positive changes to warrant such a rise in tier placement.  Her new D-tilt comes out quicker and has approximately as much combo potential into kill moves making it an upgrade overall. Her F-Smash is certainly better now that you can choose which weapon she uses. I have no data to prove this claim but I strongly suspect her frying pan and tennis racket have much better knockback scaling, to a point where I don't think there's a reason to use the golf club when the other two kill much earlier. Other than that, it's just Peach with the same tools and her few usable ground moves getting a boost. Her good moves are still good for the same reasons while her bad moves are still bad for the same reasons. She's a relatively slow, lightweight character in a game where everybody generally has an easier time getting KOs and combos.

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3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

For datamines, should Nintendo and others expect them to happen? So couldn't they use code names in the coding? Nobody would be able to guess what the term CHAIR would mean.

Then again, they could simply not care. Reasonable, since only the dedicated are going to pay attention to datamines and rumors and leaks and whatnot. How many of the millions of players and buyers would? And what would it even really do to the DLC sales figures?

They kind of did. Joker is listed as "Jack" (we knew about him before the game launched, but he might have been in the code before they knew that). There's speculation as to who "Brave" could be, but the fact of the matter is that we don't actually know.

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2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

So, can someone explain to me why Peach and Daisy are considered top tier? I've seen this a few times and it really confuses me because I think they're bad. They don't have enough power imo, or range. Or speed either, as they don't feel that fast. I consistently have trouble getting KOs at all with Daisy and that's the worst part.

I don't think I'm playing her wrong. Air game here seems important because d-air with the floaty-ness is good. She has to get in your face because of the lack of range so I try to do that. And so on.

Maybe she just doesn't fit me and I should drop her... And that would be a shame because I love Daisy and wanted her in Smash for years.

Zero gives an analysis of every character here. I timestamped it so it starts at Peach. Basically he considers Peach to be the best combo character in the game and has lots of kill moves, and at full potential can be a deadly character, but she's VERY hard to fully master.

 

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37 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

That is an excellent question, I don't think she got so many positive changes to warrant such a rise in tier placement.  Her new D-tilt comes out quicker and has approximately as much combo potential into kill moves making it an upgrade overall. Her F-Smash is certainly better now that you can choose which weapon she uses. I have no data to prove this claim but I strongly suspect her frying pan and tennis racket have much better knockback scaling, to a point where I don't think there's a reason to use the golf club when the other two kill much earlier. Other than that, it's just Peach with the same tools and her few usable ground moves getting a boost. Her good moves are still good for the same reasons while her bad moves are still bad for the same reasons. She's a relatively slow, lightweight character in a game where everybody generally has an easier time getting KOs and combos.

I see. But I thought whether or not Peach/Daisy use a golf club, frying pan, or tennis racket was random while the damage was the same regardless of which one? I guess I assumed this entirely wrong. xP

9 minutes ago, Jave said:

Zero gives an analysis of every character here. I timestamped it so it starts at Peach. Basically he considers Peach to be the best combo character in the game and has lots of kill moves, and at full potential can be a deadly character, but she's VERY hard to fully master.

 

Being difficult to master would make sense, yeah. I guess I have my work cut out for me there. Thanks, I'll check out this video.

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12 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I see. But I thought whether or not Peach/Daisy use a golf club, frying pan, or tennis racket was random while the damage was the same regardless of which one? I guess I assumed this entirely wrong. xP

It used to be a set order of appearance. Now you press up while performing Fsmash for a frying pan and down for the racket. The damage is also different. Frying pan has the most and racket deals the least, but makes up for it by sending them low offstage so you could attempt to kill them early with an edgeguard.

Edited by Glennstavos
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2 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

It used to be a set order of appearance. Now you press up while performing Fsmash for a frying pan and down for the racket. The damage is also different. Frying pan has the most and racket deals the least, but makes up for it by sending them offstage so you could attempt to kill them early with an edgeguard.

Oh. Huh. I don't think I'd be able to pick one well, I'd probably accidentally use up smash or down smash or u-tilt d-tilt by mistake instead. I seem to do this kind of thing a lot where I'm trying to use one smash attack or one special and end up using a different one because of weird controller input or something. Doesn't matter what controller I use.

Edited by Anacybele
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4 hours ago, Anacybele said:

So, can someone explain to me why Peach and Daisy are considered top tier? I've seen this a few times and it really confuses me because I think they're bad. They don't have enough power imo, or range. Or speed either, as they don't feel that fast. I consistently have trouble getting KOs at all with Daisy and that's the worst part.

I don't think I'm playing her wrong. Air game here seems important because d-air with the floaty-ness is good. She has to get in your face because of the lack of range so I try to do that. And so on.

Maybe she just doesn't fit me and I should drop her... And that would be a shame because I love Daisy and wanted her in Smash for years.

There’s a lot of reasons why Peach is top tier. As it was said before, she has great combo potential, a lot of good kill moves and in a game where everyone has a bad recovery, Peach’s floating ability does wonders. 

That being said Peach is a very difficult character to use effectively and is definitely not for beginners.

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40 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

There’s a lot of reasons why Peach is top tier. As it was said before, she has great combo potential, a lot of good kill moves and in a game where everyone has a bad recovery, Peach’s floating ability does wonders. 

That being said Peach is a very difficult character to use effectively and is definitely not for beginners.

Peach and Daisy, you mean. Not everyone who uses Daisy also uses Peach and vice versa, just saying. But yeah, I'm aware now. Good thing I'm not really a beginner then. I'm no expert, but I have been playing Smash for years and know a little something about comboing and reading your opponent's moves.

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2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Oh. Huh. I don't think I'd be able to pick one well, I'd probably accidentally use up smash or down smash or u-tilt d-tilt by mistake instead. I seem to do this kind of thing a lot where I'm trying to use one smash attack or one special and end up using a different one because of weird controller input or something. Doesn't matter what controller I use.

Start charging the Smash attack and then tilt up or down while still charging.

Incidentally, Little Mac's Forward Smash has a similar mechanic in that it can be either a straight punch or an uppercut depending on if you tilt up while charging.

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39 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

Start charging the Smash attack and then tilt up or down while still charging.

Incidentally, Little Mac's Forward Smash has a similar mechanic in that it can be either a straight punch or an uppercut depending on if you tilt up while charging.

Oh okay, that might help.

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I'd be pretty disappointed with the DLC choices if the rumors are indeed true. I can get behind the DQ character and Ryu, purely because of their roots and legacy on Nintendo, but Steve from Minecraft? Doom Guy? Honestly, even Joker is kinda meh. Not only are there so many other VERY deserving all-star characters still waiting their turn, but Nintendo also seems too concentrated on being unpredictable and such that they're really missing the true "WOW" factor that really gets people.

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I find using smash attacks are a lot less sensitive in this game compared to previous ones. A lot of times I intend to do a tilt and it comes out as a smash (if I could I'd actually disable smash attacks with the control stick e turely and just use them with C Stick/right toggle).

Edited by Jotari
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21 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I find using smash attacks are a lot less sensitive in this game compared to previous ones. A lot of times I intend to do a tilt and it comes out as a smash (if I could I'd actually disable smash attacks with the control stick e turely and just use them with C Stick/right toggle).

This is why I've set the C stick to tilt. Still getting used to actually using it, though.

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