Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[Jotari]

9 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

 

Is it crazy of me to think that not all DLC characters will be third party?

It’s because of the Mother series. Porky a major antagonist is conspicuously missing as a spirit and this year is the 30th anniversary of the Mother series, so wouldn’t it be fitting for Porky to be a DLC character?

EDIT: I just noticed, but Giygas is also missing as a spirit. This is really weird.

Clearly Ness's dad was a priority.

[Water Mage]

20 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Clearly Ness's dad was a priority.

To be fair, Ness’s dad was really memorable, and his spirit battle is hilariously brilliant.

Thinking about it, I wonder if the Absolute Safe Capsule spirit is actually a reference to Porky’s fate. That even as a spirit, he can’t leave the capsule. I mean in an interview with Shigesato Itoi, he stated that when the world ends 5.5 billion years later (when the Sun becomes a Red Giant and potentially destroys the planet as it expands outward), Porky would still be alive. So Porky still being in the capsule after Galeem destroyed the universe would be a fitting reference.

[The DanMan]

1 hour ago, Water Mage said:

 

Is it crazy of me to think that not all DLC characters will be third party?

It’s because of the Mother series. Porky a major antagonist is conspicuously missing as a spirit and this year is the 30th anniversary of the Mother series, so wouldn’t it be fitting for Porky to be a DLC character?

EDIT: I just noticed, but Giygas is also missing as a spirit. This is really weird.

Earthbound's the most niche series in Smash-- I'd say that's more a testament to how little Nintendo cares about it (especially telling that Lucas was cut in the transition between Brawl and Smash 4, only being brought back as DLC) than any sort of future plans.

Just because Spirits deconfirm characters doesn't mean a character lacking a Spirit means anything much.

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 minute ago, The DanMan said:

Earthbound's the most niche series in Smash-- I'd say that's more a testament to how little Nintendo cares about it (especially telling that Lucas was cut in the transition between Brawl and Smash 4, only being brought back as DLC) than any sort of future plans.

Just because Spirits deconfirm characters doesn't mean a character lacking a Spirit means anything much.

I agree. Really, the only reason why Earthbound (or F-Zero) has any non-spirit representation at all is the grandfather clause. And if any thereotical future Smash game has a rebooted roster and/or stages, I fully expect both franchises to be diminished or cut entirely.

[Water Mage]

5 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Earthbound's the most niche series in Smash-- I'd say that's more a testament to how little Nintendo cares about it (especially telling that Lucas was cut in the transition between Brawl and Smash 4, only being brought back as DLC) than any sort of future plans.

Just because Spirits deconfirm characters doesn't mean a character lacking a Spirit means anything much.

Actually, Smash seems to treat the Mother series with a lot love. Mr. Saturn is one of most prominent items, Porky appeared as a boss in Brawl, Lucas had his own arc in Subspace emissary and Ness had sorta of a prominent role in the finale, the sheer amount of clever references and Claus and Hinawa being the last dark and light spirts before the final boss in World of Light is very fitting.

[Jotari]

It wouldn't be weird if Mother was completely ignored, but there are quite a few Mother spirits. They have every playable character (that is to say every playable character in the Mother series, of which there's like over a dozen depending how you count it), all the stage hazards and items and even some random ones like Eva and Master Belch. When you have Master Belch but not the actual main villains of the series, then yeah, that is a little weird. I don't think it confirms Porky or Giygas (as I highly doubt we're getting both and both are missing), but it is strange. Given how comprehensive the spirits are as a whole, I struggle to think of any real significant character that isn't featured as a spirit apart from those two (and like anything from Final Fantasy).

Another thing I find kind of strange is that Claus is a Rank 4 spirit and the Masked Man is Rank 3.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Jotari

[Jingle Jangle]

43 minutes ago, Etheus said:

I agree. Really, the only reason why Earthbound (or F-Zero) has any non-spirit representation at all is the grandfather clause. And if any thereotical future Smash game has a rebooted roster and/or stages, I fully expect both franchises to be diminished or cut entirely.

Is there any proof of that happening in the series?

[Jave]

I think saying Nintendo doesn’t care about Mother is a bit off the mark since I feel it’s the opposite. Nintendo cares a lot about the series which is why they haven’t done anything with it since Mother 3; they’re respecting the creator’s wishes to end the series with the third game. Sure, Itoi did state he wouldn’t mind someone else making Mother 4 (“I’d love to play it” he said), but the series was so unique in its writing that probably no one at Nintendo would be able to do it justice, and Nintendo likely knows this. 

[Florete]

3 hours ago, Water Mage said:

 

Is it crazy of me to think that not all DLC characters will be third party?

It’s because of the Mother series. Porky a major antagonist is conspicuously missing as a spirit and this year is the 30th anniversary of the Mother series, so wouldn’t it be fitting for Porky to be a DLC character?

EDIT: I just noticed, but Giygas is also missing as a spirit. This is really weird.

It's not crazy to think that not all DLC will be third party.

It is crazy to think Porky or Giygas might be one of them.

There are a lot of spirits. Some arguably notable ones were bound to be missed.

[Interdimensional Observer]

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's a crime against Metroid that the Ice Beam is completely absent from Samus' arsenal. I'm not sure what constitutes a lot of techniques, because you just listed a tonne of potential moves. To add to it I'd add the Space Jump, it could be an alternative recovey to the Screw Attack, not that there's anything wrong with the Screw Attack of course.

And of course, it'd be even more if I had opted to include say the MP2 beams. Although somewhat derivative of the others beams, Light, Dark, and Annihilator, their charged shots, and their missile combos, all have cool potential probably. 

Similarly, the MP Hunter weapons can be derivative.

• The Adjudicator being just an Ice Beam with ricochet potential (which would be junk in Smash on FD, and of only limited use on BF if the floating platforms were considered solid enough for ricochet).
• The Magmaul sounds a bit like Din's Fire with its delay explosion, albeit the ricochet is not like DF. 
• The Battlehammer sounds a little like the Mii Gunner's grenade shot special, an arcing explosion.
• Volt Driver sounds somewhat like ZZS's neutral Special with actual power behind it. Since when used by its original Hunter Kanden, it temporarily distorts enemy vision- a "paralyze" in a way.
• Shock Coil sounds like Nosferatu. 
• And then there is the Imperialist, which is probably the most unique of all. A very powerful long-range sniper shot, which, if they bent the canon rules a little, would make Samus invisible while aiming this while stationary (just make it a Down Special that locks her feet in place so the control stick would then change her cannon's firing angle). Ouch, but probably has zero combo potential, and would be slow to fire.

 

Also, Samus Returns has the Lighting Armor Aeion technique, which as long as she has Aeion energy mitigates the damage she takes, but not the knockback. SR's Phase Drift slows time for everything but Samus as long as she has Aeion energy.

And MP3's Hyper Grapple lets enemies she has grappled be overloaded with Phazon, which would in this would have to be changed. -Oh wait, I forgot we have a Dark Samus Echo Fighter now! It is 100% Phazon with trace amounts of Metroid, it can have the Hyper Grapple and the other three PED Suit Hypermode attacks. Why you make two distinct Samuses by giving real Samus all the 2D techniques not included (and maybe Hunters), and then give Dark Samus all the Prime (except maybe Hunters) techniques.

 

I didn't list these earlier because I thought them too specific to their original games. However!

The F.L.U.D.D. is totally exclusive to Super Mario Sunshine! And yet Mario has been using this since Brawl. He has more than enough alternatives for a more "universal" Down Special, and did originally have a totally different one. So to Bowser's green hot tub with banning Samus from any weapon she has ever had that isn't broken! By SA-X's fourth-wall glare, Sakurai get someone to right these wrongs second only to Falcondorf!

 

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's reasons like these I wish Custom Specials would return.

Let us go beyond just Specials, and make applicable it any move. However, no more to 3 per move for everyone. Samus can have 3 Neutral Specials if she has the potential for it, but if she doesn't have any other possibilities for Up Smashes, just leave her with one. Asymmetrical distribution of Custom Moves according to possibilities, and probably some more for those who would otherwise be lacking for options. Messy, but I think it'd be better than just shoving everything custom into Specials.

For instance, if Mario has F.L.U.D.D. from Sunshine, why not give him moves referencing his other major 3D games? His signature Galaxy technique is the Spin. That might work a little for a Neutral Special, but it would surely be lacking for an Up Special. Where it would be most feasible is his Neutral Aerial. Throwing Cappy as in Odyssey could be a Neutral or Side Special easy (no possession of course, that'd be real complicated and possibly broken, although mustaches for everyone sounds funny), but not make the more snappy throw where Mario tosses Cappy on his side a Side Smash with some range?

 

4 hours ago, Water Mage said:

I just noticed, but Giygas is also missing as a spirit. This is really weird.

To be fair, all Giygas forms are some measure of creepy. The form before it becomes representative of Itoi's childhood trauma is the least of all and would probably be the most likely for a Spirit, and the trauma form would be too much for Smash, the Mother 1 form is in between.

 

3 hours ago, Water Mage said:

Thinking about it, I wonder if the Absolute Safe Capsule spirit is actually a reference to Porky’s fate. That even as a spirit, he can’t leave the capsule. I mean in an interview with Shigesato Itoi, he stated that when the world ends 5.5 billion years later (when the Sun becomes a Red Giant and potentially destroys the planet as it expands outward), Porky would still be alive. So Porky still being in the capsule after Galeem destroyed the universe would be a fitting reference.

Porky's fate really creeps me out in a way that makes me existentially fear death. You're buried alive without the mercy of death. The best thing Porky can hope for is that they can lose themselves in a fictional world inside their head, which simulates the real world outside they cannot possibly ever return to and which will cease to exist eventually while they will not. I think I found the plot for Mother 4.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Yeah, I have a hard time envisioning Porky and Giygas. If you're going first party, it's going to be somebody recognizable. Plus what's the moveset potential? Put Porky in a smaller version of the mech from Brawl? Giygas is also hard to imagine since even his attacks in game went beyond description. I vaguely remember the game telling me in the final battle of Earthbound "Giygas did...something! Ness suffers 200 points of mortal damage"

[Jave]

My theory (and this is just a theory so don’t post it on Wikipedia) is that Porky was originally intended to return as a boss but for whatever reason it didn’t make it to the finished game and his spirit was cut along with the boss fight. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

4 minutes ago, Jave said:

My theory (and this is just a theory so don’t post it on Wikipedia) is that Porky was originally intended to return as a boss but for whatever reason it didn’t make it to the finished game and his spirit was cut along with the boss fight. 

That seems likely. Bosses in this game are more than just porting an old boss fight. There was likely an entire EB segment of the WoL map planned (or alternatively just not added to an already visually complete map) that never saw the light of day. 

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Yeah, I have a hard time envisioning Porky and Giygas. If you're going first party, it's going to be somebody recognizable. Plus what's the moveset potential? Put Porky in a smaller version of the mech from Brawl? Giygas is also hard to imagine since even his attacks in game went beyond description. I vaguely remember the game telling me in the final battle of Earthbound "Giygas did...something! Ness suffers 200 points of mortal damage"

Make Giygas a Mewtwo Echo!

6 hours ago, Jave said:

My theory (and this is just a theory so don’t post it on Wikipedia) is that Porky was originally intended to return as a boss but for whatever reason it didn’t make it to the finished game and his spirit was cut along with the boss fight. 

That actually seems quite likely. It's almost a little strange that Galleom is the only boss returning from Brawl (aside from the hands obviously). I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover they'd planned to have all the SSE bosses (except maybe Tabuu) planned and dropped at some point. Then again, implementing them as a spirit even after dropping them as a boss would be ridiculously easy. We haven't seen an end to spirit distribution though. Perhaps there'll be an Earthbound event in the future and we'll see some more Mother stickers.

7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And of course, it'd be even more if I had opted to include say the MP2 beams. Although somewhat derivative of the others beams, Light, Dark, and Annihilator, their charged shots, and their missile combos, all have cool potential probably. 

Similarly, the MP Hunter weapons can be derivative.

• The Adjudicator being just an Ice Beam with ricochet potential (which would be junk in Smash on FD, and of only limited use on BF if the floating platforms were considered solid enough for ricochet).
• The Magmaul sounds a bit like Din's Fire with its delay explosion, albeit the ricochet is not like DF. 
• The Battlehammer sounds a little like the Mii Gunner's grenade shot special, an arcing explosion.
• Volt Driver sounds somewhat like ZZS's neutral Special with actual power behind it. Since when used by its original Hunter Kanden, it temporarily distorts enemy vision- a "paralyze" in a way.
• Shock Coil sounds like Nosferatu. 
• And then there is the Imperialist, which is probably the most unique of all. A very powerful long-range sniper shot, which, if they bent the canon rules a little, would make Samus invisible while aiming this while stationary (just make it a Down Special that locks her feet in place so the control stick would then change her cannon's firing angle). Ouch, but probably has zero combo potential, and would be slow to fire.

 

Also, Samus Returns has the Lighting Armor Aeion technique, which as long as she has Aeion energy mitigates the damage she takes, but not the knockback. SR's Phase Drift slows time for everything but Samus as long as she has Aeion energy.

And MP3's Hyper Grapple lets enemies she has grappled be overloaded with Phazon, which would in this would have to be changed. -Oh wait, I forgot we have a Dark Samus Echo Fighter now! It is 100% Phazon with trace amounts of Metroid, it can have the Hyper Grapple and the other three PED Suit Hypermode attacks. Why you make two distinct Samuses by giving real Samus all the 2D techniques not included (and maybe Hunters), and then give Dark Samus all the Prime (except maybe Hunters) techniques.

 

I didn't list these earlier because I thought them too specific to their original games. However!

The F.L.U.D.D. is totally exclusive to Super Mario Sunshine! And yet Mario has been using this since Brawl. He has more than enough alternatives for a more "universal" Down Special, and did originally have a totally different one. So to Bowser's green hot tub with banning Samus from any weapon she has ever had that isn't broken! By SA-X's fourth-wall glare, Sakurai get someone to right these wrongs second only to Falcondorf!

Yeah I definitely think Dark Samus should get the Hyper Grapple (and give it some health restoring power too). The Screw Attack is something we never see Dark Samus do as far as I remember.

If anyone wants to have fun speculating on custom move potential, I'm trying to set this thing up 

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Jotari

[Shadow Mir]

On the subject of spirits, is Nabooru one? Because every other sage from Ocarina of Time is in as one, even Rauru (albeit in owl form).

[Interdimensional Observer]

8 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Giygas is also hard to imagine since even his attacks in game went beyond description. I vaguely remember the game telling me in the final battle of Earthbound "Giygas did...something! Ness suffers 200 points of mortal damage"

I had an idea. A stage with no physical enemy, at fixed intervals your character will flinch and take damage. How to win? Taunt several times.

[Florete]

Hey, we found a real use for Smash tags: finding liars in online tourneys.

 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

On the subject of spirits, is Nabooru one? Because every other sage from Ocarina of Time is in as one, even Rauru (albeit in owl form).

Nope. No Nabooru spirit. I guess that confirms her for playable! Though she's not as important as Porky or Giygas all things considered. Other spirits that aren't there that could be would be Onox, Veran and Nightmare. They have spirits from the early gameboy games but not the villains. Not surprising though, those characters have always been shafted. Another character that is somewhat deserving would be MB from Other M, but also not surprising considering how poorly Other M was received.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

There's a challenge where you need to KO 3 times with meteor smash in a versus match. I swear I did exactly what was asked of me, but it didn't award it to me. And it's a non hammerable challenge, so I can't solve this the way I solved that century smash challenge where you must win with ken using only special moves (which failed to unlock after I did it twice. I guess they didn't count since one of the miis accidentally SD or KOd themselves by hitting a bomb). After this is taken care of, my final challenge is simply 200 quickplay matches, which I will handle the next time I can get a friend over. Co-op quickplay is much more fun and these other teams just can't handle double Mac. I even checked the stats, and we only lost six out of 80 matches that night, all of which were when we switched to normal characters like Kirby and Bowser jr. I get the feeling co-op quickplay doesn't factor in your GSP at all, because some of those opponents were simply helpless and nowhere near the skill level of people I get matched with in solo play.

The Spirit hunt hasn't gone so smoothly as I work through my final hundred entries. But it has improved now that I have just learned that the shops you unlock in Adventure Mode  have a different pool of obtainable spirits than other means of obtaining spirits. Excellent.

[Shadow Mir]

20 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

There's a challenge where you need to KO 3 times with meteor smash in a versus match. I swear I did exactly what was asked of me, but it didn't award it to me. And it's a non hammerable challenge, so I can't solve this the way I solved that century smash challenge where you must win with ken using only special moves (which failed to unlock after I did it twice. I guess they didn't count since one of the miis accidentally SD or KOd themselves by hitting a bomb). After this is taken care of, my final challenge is simply 200 quickplay matches, which I will handle the next time I can get a friend over. Co-op quickplay is much more fun and these other teams just can't handle double Mac. I even checked the stats, and we only lost six out of 80 matches that night, all of which were when we switched to normal characters like Kirby and Bowser jr. I get the feeling co-op quickplay doesn't factor in your GSP at all, because some of those opponents were simply helpless and nowhere near the skill level of people I get matched with in solo play.

The Spirit hunt hasn't gone so smoothly as I work through my final hundred entries. But it has improved now that I have just learned that the shops you unlock in Adventure Mode  have a different pool of obtainable spirits than other means of obtaining spirits. Excellent.

I think it needs to be within a time limit? Because I remember seeing something like that.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Florete]

35 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

There's a challenge where you need to KO 3 times with meteor smash in a versus match. I swear I did exactly what was asked of me, but it didn't award it to me.

I had some trouble with this, too. What I did was use super sudden death mode in special smash and just jumped around doing down airs with Ganondorf for 3 minutes.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Florete said:

I had some trouble with this, too. What I did was use super sudden death mode in special smash and just jumped around doing down airs with Ganondorf for 3 minutes.

Eight player smash also helps. More chaos to make use of and just camp over the edge of the stage.

[The Roger The Paladin]

5 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

There's a challenge where you need to KO 3 times with meteor smash in a versus match. I swear I did exactly what was asked of me, but it didn't award it to me. And it's a non hammerable challenge, so I can't solve this the way I solved that century smash challenge where you must win with ken using only special moves (which failed to unlock after I did it twice. I guess they didn't count since one of the miis accidentally SD or KOd themselves by hitting a bomb). After this is taken care of, my final challenge is simply 200 quickplay matches, which I will handle the next time I can get a friend over. Co-op quickplay is much more fun and these other teams just can't handle double Mac. I even checked the stats, and we only lost six out of 80 matches that night, all of which were when we switched to normal characters like Kirby and Bowser jr. I get the feeling co-op quickplay doesn't factor in your GSP at all, because some of those opponents were simply helpless and nowhere near the skill level of people I get matched with in solo play.

The Spirit hunt hasn't gone so smoothly as I work through my final hundred entries. But it has improved now that I have just learned that the shops you unlock in Adventure Mode  have a different pool of obtainable spirits than other means of obtaining spirits. Excellent.

Going to give some advice. Ike's aether going down counts as a meteor smash. Get 7 computer opponents, all set to level five, and have a time match of 2:30 on a small stage (battlefield works fine). Then get any three of them off the side and suicide aether them into a "meteor" KO. If you're unsure you've got enough, just keep doing it. It won't matter whether you win, but if you get more than one per go, you get a net gain so you probably can. Delightfully devilish? As long as they ain't patched it since I did it.

[Water Mage]

Speaking of spirits, does anyone know how the “elemental attributes” of the character's attacks are decided?

As in, what is considered a Magic attack? What is considered a PSI attack? 

Are Mewtwo attacks considered PSI? And I’ve heard that the Inkling’s Ink attacks are considered a water element attack.

Does anyone knows a list where this is explained?

Edited January 9, 2019 by Water Mage

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

Speaking of spirits, does anyone know how the “elemental attributes” of the character's attacks are decided?

As in, what is considered a Magic attack? What is considered a PSI attack? 

Are Mewtwo attacks considered PSI? And I’ve heard that the Inkling’s Ink attacks are considered a water element attack.

Does anyone knows a list where this is explained?

The Smash Wiki lists them but I'm not sure how verifiable it is.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/PK (use the nav bar down at the bottom to check out other attacks)

It should be noted that Mewtwo is not listed as using PSI attacks, but Nintendo's reccomended spirits list does advise putting the PSI spirits on Mewtwo. So *shrug*