lucina

[Comet]

Marth and Lucina's playstyles are exactly the same. If you run, dash attack, and miss as either character, everything is the same. That goes for all of their moves. Both characters just want to actively zone the other player out at mid range (at the tip of their swords). The only general difference is that Lucina's reward for winning neutral is much more consistent against faster or smaller characters like Sheik and Pikachu.

As for the differences in frame data and properties, there are a few. Lucina's up tilt doesn't remove momentum like Marth's does. Lucina is slightly shorter, so her up throw KOs about 1% later. Her sword is negligably shorter in terms of reach, but when combined with her height, it results in her f smash barely not reaching through Battlefield's side platforms. Combo strings are also naturally different for the two just because of knockback differences.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Comet

[SoulWeaver]

Jumping in late without reading most of this thread so someone may have addressed this already, but if just being a clone is the issue, I believe several people online have done Mods for Project M or similar hacks that bring Lucina in and give her a unique moveset - my personal favorite was a Masked Lucina alt that had, among other things, Aether's spinning animation for the Neutral Air. Sakurai could probably find such mods and replicate bits and pieces of each to create a new moveset easily enough.

Edited March 10, 2018 by SoulWeaver

[LucinaRobin]

7 hours ago, Comet said:

Marth and Lucina's playstyles are exactly the same. If you run, dash attack, and miss as either character, everything is the same. That goes for all of their moves. Both characters just want to actively zone the other player out at mid range (at the tip of their swords). The only general difference is that Lucina's reward for winning neutral is much more consistent against faster or smaller characters like Sheik and Pikachu.

If so, can we use lucina and marth in same ways?

I don't think so. Even though their moveset is same, the way to use them is totally different.

Let's think what we aim. In reality what we aim is different playstyle to obtain fun.

When we use marth, we have to move more in defensive ways than lucina to win.

 

7 hours ago, Comet said:

As for the differences in frame data and properties, there are a few. Lucina's up tilt doesn't remove momentum like Marth's does. Lucina is slightly shorter, so her up throw KOs about 1% later. Her sword is negligably shorter in terms of reach, but when combined with her height, it results in her f smash barely not reaching through Battlefield's side platforms. Combo strings are also naturally different for the two just because of knockback differences.

This difference can make significant difference to play method.

[NoirCore]

33 minutes ago, LucinaRobin said:

If so, can we use lucina and marth in same ways?

I don't think so. Even though their moveset is same, the way to use them is totally different.

Let's think what we aim. In reality what we aim is different playstyle to obtain fun.

When we use marth, we have to move more in defensive ways than lucina to win.

 

This difference can make significant difference to play method.

Regardless, they still function very similarly, more so than Mario and Dr. Mario. And if Marth and Lucina lose alt costumes (if they don't add more alts for everyone), that's not really an issue. They could theoretically add slight moveset changes as a means of customization, but otherwise, Marth and Lucina are indeed blue and light blue; similar with minimal differences not enough to make them distinctive. I'd love for her to come back, but they are indeed too similar, despite what you say.

[HK Motendra]

59 minutes ago, LucinaRobin said:

If so, can we use lucina and marth in same ways?

Yes. You literally can, because their moveset is visually and effectively the same in every aspect. The only real difference is whether your attacks give extra or less output. To illustrate numerically, Marth's attacks are either 1.2 or 0.8 in damage & knockback ( I don't have exact numbers, but this is the general idea) with no in between. Lucina is exactly Marth, but at a consistent 1.0; the middle ground that Marth is missing

How you adjust to that is up to you and your own personal play style, but it is not impossible to fight offensively as Marth. If you can do it right he potentially does it better. If not, he's worse, which is where the skill curve comes into play

59 minutes ago, LucinaRobin said:

This difference can make significant difference to play method.

 I don't know why you're so headstrong about this and are continually either missing, or ignoring the point all togther. When it comes to Marth/Lucina, all it boils down to is "who can kill faster under your current conditions". If you can nail the spacing, Marth does. If you cannot, Lucina does; hence the term "watered down Marth". While not gaining Marth's output rewards, Lucina doesn't have his output penalties either, making her generally easier to use simply because she is consistent. If you take anything from this at all, let it be this. Lucina, for better or worse, is more consistent than Marth.

 

EDIT: as for the actual topic, who knows? We'll have to wait and see. Personally, I'd rather we not cut anyone at all, and the FE characters are the ones that I play the most (which is how I got into the series at all), so keeping all six of them as is, is the optimal outcome, even if I only use Lucina when I decide that I don't want to be Marth

Edited March 11, 2018 by Motendra

[LucinaRobin]

6 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

Regardless, they still function very similarly, more so than Mario and Dr. Mario. And if Marth and Lucina lose alt costumes (if they don't add more alts for everyone), that's not really an issue. They could theoretically add slight moveset changes as a means of customization, but otherwise, Marth and Lucina are indeed blue and light blue; similar with minimal differences not enough to make them distinctive. I'd love for her to come back, but they are indeed too similar, despite what you say.

Light blue, blue and red is maybe difference of perspective...

But even though lucina is sky and marth blue, I'm telling they don't need to remove.

The roster size is nearly 50. There are green, purple, light purple, mint green, red, blue, sky and pink.....

If we remove sky blue because it's similar to blue, then how 50 character can be?

 

 

[NoirCore]

5 minutes ago, LucinaRobin said:

Light blue, blue and red is maybe difference of perspective...

But even though lucina is sky and marth blue, I'm telling they don't need to remove.

The roster size is nearly 50. There are green, purple, light purple, mint green, red, blue, sky and pink.....

If we remove sky blue because it's similar to blue, then how 50 character can be?

 

 

You lost me with the 50 characters thing.

[LucinaRobin]

9 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

15 minutes ago, LucinaRobin said:

 

You lost me with the 50 character thing.

Sorry. What?

I mean about 50 characters (total roster size of ssb4).

Edited March 11, 2018 by LucinaRobin

[HK Motendra]

10 minutes ago, LucinaRobin said:

Sorry. What?

I mean about 50 characters (total roster size of ssb4).

It's prolly because you're using colors to describe characters. I initially though it was a metaphor when comparing Lucina to Marth, but now you lost me too

21 minutes ago, LucinaRobin said:

There are green, purple, light purple, mint green, red, blue, sky and pink.....

 

He's prolly talking about this right here

[LucinaRobin]

3 minutes ago, Motendra said:

17 minutes ago, LucinaRobin said:

Sorry. What?

I mean about 50 characters (total roster size of ssb4).

It's prolly because you're using colors to describe characters. I initially though it was a metaphor when comparing Lucina to Marth, but now you lost me too

25 minutes ago, LucinaRobin said:

There are green, purple, light purple, mint green, red, blue, sky and pink.....

 

He's prolly talking about this right here

So you guys can't understand my saying. Right?

So I am telling" to fill 50 roster, that kind of similarity is okay."

 

[Lau]

Your colour analogy makes no sense...

Their movesets are the exact same. Yes, Lucina is more of a rushdown character due to not having the tipper mechanic, whilst Marth is very spacey due to having the tip oh yes, but it doesn't mean they're not the same. Marth can still be used as a rushdown character if you ignore the tipper, they have the exact same moveset. Marth is just more rewarding to use. You know how Niles says "ohhh yes" in Fates? That's exactly how it is when you land the tip.

My point is, Lucina and Marth have too many similarities than differences, and Lucina is just Marth without the tip.

I don't know why you're worrying so much about this. I get it, she's your favourite character and you're afraid of her getting cut, believe me I know how that feels, Roy is my secondary afterall, but it's too early to get too nervous.

[LucinaRobin]

44 minutes ago, Lau said:

Your colour analogy makes no sense...

Their movesets are the exact same. Yes, Lucina is more of a rushdown character due to not having the tipper mechanic, whilst Marth is very spacey due to having the tip oh yes, but it doesn't mean they're not the same. Marth can still be used as a rushdown character if you ignore the tipper, they have the exact same moveset. Marth is just more rewarding to use. You know how Niles says "ohhh yes" in Fates? That's exactly how it is when you land the tip.

My point is, Lucina and Marth have too many similarities than differences, and Lucina is just Marth without the tip.

I don't know why you're worrying so much about this. I get it, she's your favourite character and you're afraid of her getting cut, believe me I know how that feels, Roy is my secondary afterall, but it's too early to get too nervous.

Maybe we have different view of perspective...

I mean it's okay for lucina to have slot for itself to fill 50 characters roster.

I use robin and lucina in ssb4. So i'm worried.

But I wanted to know why lucina is same with marth.

I don't feel like that...

[NoirCore]

3 hours ago, LucinaRobin said:

Maybe we have different view of perspective...

I mean it's okay for lucina to have slot for itself to fill 50 characters roster.

I use robin and lucina in ssb4. So i'm worried.

But I wanted to know why lucina is same with marth.

I don't feel like that...

Are you saying 50 characters is the maximum? Because there's no maximum; just the limit to how many characters the staff can work into the game. There aren't "slots to fill", as far as I'm concerned. I feel that is a negative mindset that worries for nothing.

[LucinaRobin]

16 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

Are you saying 50 characters is the maximum? Because there's no maximum; just the limit to how many characters the staff can work into the game. There aren't "slots to fill", as far as I'm concerned. I feel that is a negative mindset that worries for nothing.

I didn't mean that. Maybe they can make 100.

I mean this game has large roster. So this kind of similarity is okay for this kind of game.

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by LucinaRobin

[Lau]

4 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

Are you saying 50 characters is the maximum? Because there's no maximum; just the limit to how many characters the staff can work into the game. There aren't "slots to fill", as far as I'm concerned. I feel that is a negative mindset that worries for nothing.

You're right, slots don't exist. I believe in the run up to the release of Smash 4, Sakurai said that he chooses characters depending on what they can add to the roster, how interesting they are. Nobody stole anyones slot, and there is no defined limit.

[LucinaRobin]

3 minutes ago, Lau said:

You're right, slots don't exist. I believe in the run up to the release of Smash 4, Sakurai said that he chooses characters depending on what they can add to the roster, how interesting they are. Nobody stole anyones slot, and there is no defined limit.

I know.

I mean this kind of similarity is okay because this game has large roster.

 

[HK Motendra]

8 hours ago, LucinaRobin said:

So you guys can't understand my saying. Right?

So I am telling" to fill 50 roster, that kind of similarity is okay."

 

Hey, I'm not arguing for her to be removed. Personally, I don't mind if she stays, as I believe that no character should be cut. You aren't wrong about large rosters having characters that are similar.

However, the unique level of similarities that Lucina has to her counterpart--the most minute difference possible-- is not something that would be welcomed, and even then, that puts the devs into a tight spot that they themselves created, regarding the circumstances of her inclusion. If she gets cut, that's time and effort wasted (even if it's just a little) for even having her in the first place. If she stays and branches out from Marth, then they become hypocrits for denying Chrom.

[LucinaRobin]

1 hour ago, Motendra said:

Hey, I'm not arguing for her to be removed. Personally, I don't mind if she stays, as I believe that no character should be cut. You aren't wrong about large rosters having characters that are similar.

However, the unique level of similarities that Lucina has to her counterpart--the most minute difference possible-- is not something that would be welcomed, and even then, that puts the devs into a tight spot that they themselves created, regarding the circumstances of her inclusion.

Yeah I know.

Just wanted to know whether lucina is same to marth or not.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by LucinaRobin

[HK Motendra]

33 minutes ago, LucinaRobin said:

Yeah I know.

Just wanted to know whether lucina is same to marth or not.

 

 

And everyone in this thread has been telling you that she is

[LucinaRobin]

1 hour ago, Motendra said:

And everyone in this thread has been telling you that she is

And i'm telling she isn't...

It's fun to discuss like this.

[peener weener]

2 hours ago, LucinaRobin said:

Yeah I know.

Just wanted to know whether lucina is same to marth or not.

 

 

She objectively is. You personally feeling she isn't is irrelevant, becaude they have the same moveset, height, speed, jump, gameplan, and combos with the caveat that some hitboxes do very slightly different amounts of damage (with same knockback values and angles).

 

Marth and Lucina are objectively almost identical characters. This isn't arguable.

 

Whether you like her or not or whether she "deserves" a character spot is a different conversation entirely. You might think she does, that's fine. That's your opinion. You seem to be confusing that with the objective fact that Marth and Lucina are essentially the same character.

[HK Motendra]

1 hour ago, LucinaRobin said:

And i'm telling she isn't...

It's fun to discuss like this.

Fun? There's literally nothing to argue here. At most, the only thing you're doing is being a troll

[LucinaRobin]

8 hours ago, fartboi said:

Marth and Lucina are objectively almost identical characters. This isn't arguable.

Even though almost, "almost" isn't "equal". I wanted to say that 99% isn't 100%.

And 1% can be very large difference sometimes.

6 hours ago, Motendra said:

Fun? There's literally nothing to argue here. At most, the only thing you're doing is being a troll

Sorry if I did something wrong..

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by LucinaRobin

[eclipse]

8 hours ago, LucinaRobin said:

And i'm telling she isn't...

It's fun to discuss like this.

It's not a discussion if you're going to be contrary about it.  There's already been reasons for why they're more-or-less the same.  You're free to disagree, but if that's all you're going to do, I'm going to lock this topic on the basis that you already have an answer.

[LucinaRobin]

8 minutes ago, eclipse said:

It's not a discussion if you're going to be contrary about it.  There's already been reasons for why they're more-or-less the same.  You're free to disagree, but if that's all you're going to do, I'm going to lock this topic on the basis that you already have an answer.

Okay...

So you didn't lock this now. Right?