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Am I the only one bothered by the seeming lack of technological progression in Archanea?


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2 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Both Pheros (boss of Fort Steiger) and Aversa are female, so that statement is clearly false.

Those are major antagonists, not minor bosses. Even the likes of Raimi isn't a minor boss.

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17 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Here's a video.

Basically the rumble was from the carriages moving. Also the name "Wooden Cavalry(Horse in JP)" emphasizes the vehicles move on their own.

fe11-pachyderm.pngfe11-hoistflamme.png

I believe they weren't retconned, just given simplified battle animations for time. Descriptions and weapon icons still depict them as cannons. Also while the ballista animations do have a flame and explosion effect.

As for Cynthia, it really depends, we aren't given enough information for us to make any judgements on whether the Ballista had an engine anyhow.

I see, I would be lying if I were to say that I haven't thought about the icons and descriptions being weird for arrows.

While it's true that we don't know enough about the situation, it shows that they at least cared enough to make them move again, as it happened while marching.

12 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

With all this ballistae talk, it really makes me wonder about Fates's ballistae, which are undoubtly mechanical metal constructs. Didn't the Before Awakening DLC states Fates takes place in the very distant past from Awakening events? It's amusing, considering that, seeing how ballistae were in Fates, then how ballistae were in Shadow Dragon, then to what happened to them in New Mystery...

Artillery really took a dive instead of advance, aye.

Not really, with the introduction of outrealms it's perfectly possible that someone from Nohr or Hoshido traveled through them and arrived to Archanea/Ylisse in the past and legends appeared from it, a similar explanation to Priam being in Ylisse. Also, while I don't remember too well, didn't Anankos say to the trio in Hidden Truths that they were going to another world or something?

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12 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Those are major antagonists, not minor bosses. Even the likes of Raimi isn't a minor boss.

They are still female bosses, regardless of whether they are major antagonists or not, thus making your statement that "All of the bosses of Awakening are men" untrue.

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2 hours ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

The fuck??! You'd think SOMEONE would have kept records of them safe m.

Say that to all the scrolls of aztect mathematics that were burnt by the missionaries of God during the genocide of the Mayans or the missing records of the Telegony (sequel to the famous Odyssey by Homer).

Scrolls and tablets get easily destroyed and lost. They take months even years to reproduce. Our ability to spread knowledge quickly and to reproduce it is thanks an invention called the printing press which does not exist in the game.

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6 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

They are still female bosses, regardless of whether they are major antagonists or not, thus making your statement that "All of the bosses of Awakening are men" untrue.

I mean minor bosses.

And do note, Aversa isn't exactly a case for female equality in the enemy forces.

15 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

While it's true that we don't know enough about the situation, it shows that they at least cared enough to make them move again, as it happened while marching.

A motherless Ballista could have run her over if it rolled from a hill, as we aren't given enough information, there's nothing to say.

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12 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

Not really, with the introduction of outrealms it's perfectly possible that someone from Nohr or Hoshido traveled through them and arrived to Archanea/Ylisse in the past and legends appeared from it, a similar explanation to Priam being in Ylisse. Also, while I don't remember too well, didn't Anankos say to the trio in Hidden Truths that they were going to another world or something?

Isn't it stated that time travel isn't exactly something easy to do? For Priam, it doesn't really say when his lineage arrived from Tellius. No time travel has to be involved there, anyway, since it's not like he's Ike himself or something.

I'm checking the script. Anankos does say space AND time. Still haven't found if to the past or future. I have to read the rest.

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8 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I mean minor bosses.

How is Pheros not a minor boss? She only appears in the chapter you first meet her, and is given no build up or character at all (other than her unwavering loyalty to Walhart). I could also give a similar argument for Raimi.

Quote

And do note, Aversa isn't exactly a case for female equality in the enemy forces.

Given that she's the penultimate boss of the game, I'd have to disagree.

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8 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

How is Pheros not a minor boss? She only appears in the chapter you first meet her, and is given no build up or character at all (other than her unwavering loyalty to Walhart). I could also give a similar argument for Raimi.

Given that she's the penultimate boss of the game, I'd have to disagree.

Several unique boss conversations in a game where boss conversations are very few indeed, treated as a worthy opponent by the protagonists, has a backstory, is left out of the endless parade of re-used boss portraits, ETC.

Remember 

Spoiler

Aversa was someone the Grimleal abducted and enslaved to use her sex appeal to manipulate people. 

 

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46 minutes ago, Sbuscoz said:

Not really, with the introduction of outrealms it's perfectly possible that someone from Nohr or Hoshido traveled through them and arrived to Archanea/Ylisse in the past and legends appeared from it, a similar explanation to Priam being in Ylisse. Also, while I don't remember too well, didn't Anankos say to the trio in Hidden Truths that they were going to another world or something?

Okay, I read it through it all. I found no direct mentioning as to in which direction through time they traveled... but, Anankos says he saw them defeat Grima through his power to see the future, which is why he sought them in the first place. If that's the future from his vantage point being the time before Fates begins... that should mean it is the past. That's the conclusion I reach, anyway.

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5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Okay, I read it through it all. I found no direct mentioning as to in which direction through time they traveled... but, Anankos says he saw them defeat Grima through his power to see the future, which is why he sought them in the first place. If that's the future from his vantage point being the time before Fates begins... that should mean it is the past. That's the conclusion I reach, anyway.

He may have seen it in the future, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the future of the Fates' world.

Plus, the Fates' reincarnation characters ruin any idea that Awakening might be in the future. Unless spirits also can travel to different worlds and across different dimensions, I believe(Correct me if I'm wrong here) Rhajat says something to Corrin that implies that Corrin is the reincarnation of Robin, and that both of them have met before, referencing Tharja and Robin in Awakening.

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1 hour ago, Nym said:

Not before she was married to Marth I think.

That's Shiida(Caeda), not Sheena. It got me the first time too.

21 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

How is Pheros not a minor boss? She only appears in the chapter you first meet her, and is given no build up or character at all (other than her unwavering loyalty to Walhart). I could also give a similar argument for Raimi.

Given that she's the penultimate boss of the game, I'd have to disagree.

I thought Grima was the penultimate boss. Also, once more with the whole disagreeing politely thing.

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

With all this ballistae talk, it really makes me wonder about Fates's ballistae, which are undoubtly mechanical metal constructs. Didn't the Before Awakening DLC states Fates takes place in the very distant past from Awakening events? It's amusing, considering that, seeing how ballistae were in Fates, then how ballistae were in Shadow Dragon, then to what happened to them in New Mystery...

Artillery really took a dive instead of advance, aye.

I'm not sure what you mean by taking a dive. If you mean Fates had more advanced Ballistae than Archanea, I'm pretty sure Anna states she obtained the Ballistae of Fates DLC from another world, meaning those at least aren't even Fateslandic, they're Archanean. The Story Ballistae, Shuriken Launchers, and Fire Orbs, meanwhile, though for the most part unique(two for three unless Fire Orbs exist in Jugdral, I haven't seen them anywhere else), are all static and immovable as far as the game shows, meaning that Artillery still advanced since the Archaneans figured out how to go mobile with their siege weaponry, only returning to stationary Artillery when their primary fuel source for said Artillery ran out.

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Just now, Slumber said:

He may have seen it in the future, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the future of the Fates' world.

Plus, the Fates' reincarnation characters ruin any idea that Awakening might be in the future. Unless spirits also can travel to different worlds and across different dimensions, I believe(Correct me if I'm wrong here) Rhajat says something to Corrin that implies that Corrin is the reincarnation of Robin, and that both of them have met before, referencing Tharja and Robin in Awakening.

Last I heard, Rhajat says they'll meet again, implying the inverse, that Tharja is her reincarnation (and Robin is Corrin's). Hmm, may need to reread the support to confirm...

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1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Last I heard, Rhajat says they'll meet again, implying the inverse, that Tharja is her reincarnation (and Robin is Corrin's). Hmm, may need to reread the support to confirm...

If that's the case, then fair enough, but I've always remembered the opposite.

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2 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Plus, the Fates' reincarnation characters ruin any idea that Awakening might be in the future. Unless spirits also can travel to different worlds and across different dimensions, I believe(Correct me if I'm wrong here) Rhajat says something to Corrin that implies that Corrin is the reincarnation of Robin, and that both of them have met before, referencing Tharja and Robin in Awakening.

Doesn't Rhajat also mention seeing a desert in her death quote? I feel like that should be considered.

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4 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

Doesn't Rhajat also mention seeing a desert in her death quote? I feel like that should be considered.

Shes does. But the way she says it...

Quote

“I see...a distant sandstorm. Will you be there waiting?”

Implies the future, not the past.

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Eh. Fantasy settings not changing for thousands of years is so common that i am heard pressed to think of five fantasy settings that DO change.  Usually, when a setting changes, it is a fall of the roman empire type regression (ie: what Tolkien did with lord of the rings and the slimirilian). Dragon quest is an excellent example of a setting that does not change at all, despite hundreds of years.  THe only fantasy settings I can think of that have century long time jumps and advance technologically are avatar (between "the last airbender" and "the legend of korra"), and Mistborn (between "the hero of ages" and "the alloy of law") This sort of thing is so common that i don't even notice it anymore.

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8 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

That's actually VERY easy to figure out when you think about it. See, magic is actually what is regarded as technology in Fire Emblem, and thus the progression of magic is the progression of technological advancement. 

However, recall that Grima launched his attack 1000 years before Awakening during the First Exalt's time. No one knows precisely the devastation that Grima may have wrought onto the world. So if Grima's attack ended up destroying many books that holds secrets, and many lives that had knowledge of advancements were lost. 

In other words, Grima's attack on the world is something that forced Archanea, and by extension Valentia as well, into a period of restart where they started over from square one. So by Awakening's time, they have caught up back to what Archanea had. Though even then, it's clear that some things have been lost. We no longer have the Blizzard tome anymore. 

Possibly technology could have been lost to the Schism as well.

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10 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Several unique boss conversations in a game where boss conversations are very few indeed, treated as a worthy opponent by the protagonists, has a backstory, is left out of the endless parade of re-used boss portraits, ETC.

Remember 

  Hide contents

Aversa was someone the Grimleal abducted and enslaved to use her sex appeal to manipulate people. 

I define "minor boss" as in having little to do with the overall story and both Pheros and Raimi fit that definition, in my opinion. Also, just because they both have unique portraits doesn't mean anything.

Aversa was hardly "enslaved" given she does all that willingly.

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11 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Okay, I read it through it all. I found no direct mentioning as to in which direction through time they traveled... but, Anankos says he saw them defeat Grima through his power to see the future, which is why he sought them in the first place. If that's the future from his vantage point being the time before Fates begins... that should mean it is the past. That's the conclusion I reach, anyway.

Anankos says that he is aware that they defeated Grima. Not that he actually foresaw it. Grima is a powerful entity that can travel to other worlds, so it wouldn't be impossible for Anankos to be able to sense Grima's touch on space-time. And Anankos arriving in Ylisse can easily learn about the events. 

I am a firm believer that Fates and Awakening are not the same world. Simply put, Anna is the omnipresent being in the Fire Emblem universe. Therefore, Anna could easily have jumped from Fates to Awakening or its past and told the tales of Hoshido and Nohr.

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12 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Shes does. But the way she says it...

Implies the future, not the past.

Which is, you know, what you were trying to say. Considering I said it to Slumber by way of argument, not you, I'm curious as to why you sound like you're trying to disagree with me as I'm trying to help your case out. Am I just reading it wrong?

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4 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

Which is, you know, what you were trying to say. Considering I said it to Slumber by way of argument, not you, I'm curious as to why you sound like you're trying to disagree with me as I'm trying to help your case out. Am I just reading it wrong?

Ah, no no. It was more like a general statement in case the mention of the desert alone wasn't enough. Sorry for the confusion.

6 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Anankos says that he is aware that they defeated Grima. Not that he actually foresaw it. Grima is a powerful entity that can travel to other worlds, so it wouldn't be impossible for Anankos to be able to sense Grima's touch on space-time. And Anankos arriving in Ylisse can easily learn about the events. 

I am a firm believer that Fates and Awakening are not the same world. Simply put, Anna is the omnipresent being in the Fire Emblem universe. Therefore, Anna could easily have jumped from Fates to Awakening or its past and told the tales of Hoshido and Nohr.

He says he only saw it once he recovered his power of foresight. Grima can travel through time, yes, but through worlds? Was it ever stated that?

Yes, I do believe that as well. But the thing is, this is just talking about space, not time. The Outrealms ain't the Deeprealms, there's no time dilation shenanigans if there's no deeprealms involved, which as far as I know, such is the case for the worlds of Awakening and Fates (unless there's more info on the gate the Vallites used to attack Ylisse in Before Awakening). Once again, time travel isn't something anyone can do. There's no statement the Annas can time travel, so no, can't be them. Ironically, if anything could be said about time travel, would be Jake, since he finds Genealogy's Linda's name familiar (from Shadow Dragon's Linde), during his cameo there.

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6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

He says he only saw it once he recovered his power of foresight. Grima can travel through time, yes, but through worlds? Was it ever stated that?

Yes, I do believe that as well. But the thing is, this is just talking about space, not time. The Outrealms ain't the Deeprealms, there's no time dilation shenanigans if there's no deeprealms involved, which as far as I know, such is the case for the worlds of Awakening and Fates (unless there's more info on the gate the Vallites used to attack Ylisse in Before Awakening). Once again, time travel isn't something anyone can do. There's no statement the Annas can time travel, so no, can't be them. Ironically, if anything could be said about time travel, would be Jake, since he finds Genealogy's Linda's name familiar (from Shadow Dragon's Linde), during his cameo there.

True. He did see it, but to have seen the Fell Dragon must mean that it was a power that even Anankos could sense was dangerous. 

Be aware that when you are traveling through time, you are traveling through space. This is because the act of traveling through time in Fire Emblem has been established to have a case of creating a branch in the timeline, thus it is no longer the same world. That is what Grima traveled into. Grima is also aware of the fact there are other worlds based on how Future Past Grima reacted at seeing how Naga summoned help from another world. Naga stated that Grima seeks to only add to his own power, and in Future Past, the entire world would fade to oblivion. Grima would only end up seeking new worlds afterwards. 

Annas don't need to be stated to travel through time. They exist everywhere. That's the entire case on omnipresence. Lucina met an Anna in her future, there's an Anna in Chrom's time, and there're Annas in Outrealms everywhere, like the Beach or the Hot Springs. And they existed in the previous series as well. 

By Awakening, it has become rather clear that Annas have become a sort of multiversal traveler, with versions of herself everywhere that are claimed to be her sisters. I generally don't believe it by now and I think they are all other versions of herself. Jake has basically faded away, though that isn't to say that IS has forgotten him, as Lyn and Anna's conversation mentions Jake.

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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

True. He did see it, but to have seen the Fell Dragon must mean that it was a power that even Anankos could sense was dangerous. 

Be aware that when you are traveling through time, you are traveling through space. This is because the act of traveling through time in Fire Emblem has been established to have a case of creating a branch in the timeline, thus it is no longer the same world. That is what Grima traveled into. Grima is also aware of the fact there are other worlds based on how Future Past Grima reacted at seeing how Naga summoned help from another world. Naga stated that Grima seeks to only add to his own power, and in Future Past, the entire world would fade to oblivion. Grima would only end up seeking new worlds afterwards. 

Annas don't need to be stated to travel through time. They exist everywhere. That's the entire case on omnipresence. Lucina met an Anna in her future, there's an Anna in Chrom's time, and there're Annas in Outrealms everywhere, like the Beach or the Hot Springs. And they existed in the previous series as well. 

By Awakening, it has become rather clear that Annas have become a sort of multiversal traveler, with versions of herself everywhere that are claimed to be her sisters. I generally don't believe it by now and I think they are all other versions of herself. Jake has basically faded away, though that isn't to say that IS has forgotten him, as Lyn and Anna's conversation mentions Jake.

Well, it's not like Anankos himself isn't weak to not have his foresight work on both space-time. It doesn't change the fact he was still seeing into the future.

Well, to be fair, nothing is certain there. How do we know a world can't hold several timelines at once? It's all fiction, so they can use the rules they want, after all. Grima may want to conquer other worlds, but unless he actually does it without time traveling, we can't be certain that he actually can. Only that he wants to.

Multi-person omnipresence, but not single-mind omniscient. What one Anna knows doesn't mean every other Anna will. An Anna in X place at Y time won't know what the Anna at X place at Y+n time knows, or vice versa. I still don't buy it they can do stuff like that, until there's actual evidence for it. It's kinda crucial for a topic like technological progress. The spread of information is usually how technological development occurs and spreads. For the Annas, who are business-minded, you'd think they would do that, but either aren't interested, or they can't.

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2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, it's not like Anankos himself isn't weak to not have his foresight work on both space-time. It doesn't change the fact he was still seeing into the future.

Well, to be fair, nothing is certain there. How do we know a world can't hold several timelines at once? It's all fiction, so they can use the rules they want, after all. Grima may want to conquer other worlds, but unless he actually does it without time traveling, we can't be certain that he actually can. Only that he wants to.

Multi-person omnipresence, but not single-mind omniscient. What one Anna knows doesn't mean every other Anna will. An Anna in X place at Y time won't know what the Anna at X place at Y+n time knows, or vice versa. I still don't buy it they can do stuff like that, until there's actual evidence for it. It's kinda crucial for a topic like technological progress. The spread of information is usually how technological development occurs and spreads. For the Annas, who are business-minded, you'd think they would do that, but either aren't interested, or they can't.

It's actually questionable when Anankos had seen Grima. Remember that Grima is from an entirely different world. What Anankos' foresight might have seen was possibly the actual moment of seeing Grima's defeat and the warriors there rather than seeing the future of when Grima is defeated. He arrives post Awakening after all. So it isn't entirely sure. 

Sure we do. I would argue that traveling to different worlds would in fact be much easier and far less stressful towards the taboo on time travel. Anankos did mention that he cannot violate the taboo on space-time more than he already has. And really, I think the concept of Grima actually going to other worlds to be not a good idea, as this would likely result in many worlds being destroyed. Naga is the only entity that can face Grima.

All Annas are aware of one another. And again, if they can literally set up shop between worlds in the Outrealms, that connects through time and space, there is absolutely nothing that stops Anna from jumping to another world if she so wants. Once again, there are a number of Annas. The Anna we meet may not even be the sole Anna in Fateslandia. 

Also, Anna may deal in business, but by no means do they ever promote war. They may value money, but we see that they aren't types to actually try to pillage or be very violent in regards towards it. And they DO in fact show their technological prowess. They actually created a Snapshot Tome, which allows them to take pictures using magic. And Heroes shows that Anna also has a tome that allows her to take moving pictures, meaning videos. They have these, but they didn't spread it around. 

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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

It's actually questionable when Anankos had seen Grima. Remember that Grima is from an entirely different world. What Anankos' foresight might have seen was possibly the actual moment of seeing Grima's defeat and the warriors there rather than seeing the future of when Grima is defeated. He arrives post Awakening after all. So it isn't entirely sure. 

Sure we do. I would argue that traveling to different worlds would in fact be much easier and far less stressful towards the taboo on time travel. Anankos did mention that he cannot violate the taboo on space-time more than he already has. And really, I think the concept of Grima actually going to other worlds to be not a good idea, as this would likely result in many worlds being destroyed. Naga is the only entity that can face Grima.

All Annas are aware of one another. And again, if they can literally set up shop between worlds in the Outrealms, that connects through time and space, there is absolutely nothing that stops Anna from jumping to another world if she so wants. Once again, there are a number of Annas. The Anna we meet may not even be the sole Anna in Fateslandia. 

Also, Anna may deal in business, but by no means do they ever promote war. They may value money, but we see that they aren't types to actually try to pillage or be very violent in regards towards it. And they DO in fact show their technological prowess. They actually created a Snapshot Tome, which allows them to take pictures using magic. And Heroes shows that Anna also has a tome that allows her to take moving pictures, meaning videos. They have these, but they didn't spread it around. 

Through Hidden Truths, it's always stated as him seeing the future. Well, he's already time traveling to reach them, regardless of when he departed, he'd of course travel to after the fact, so he can more easily convince the trio.

Well, of course, the Outrealm gates are there. My mistake, I was thinking on him using his own power, just like with the time travel, but forgot about him just going through the gates.

Once again, can the Outrealms travel through time? Even if we take The Future Past into account, it's stated right at the beginning that Naga, who we know can allow for time travel, sends them there. If it was just going through a gate alone, that would give credence the gates connect through time as well as space. The Annas would still be bound to the one time plane if not. And again, Annas may know of each other, but unless there's like the Borg with a hive-mind, they'd still need to communicate what they know to each other. What one learns isn't suddenly known to all Annas through space AND time.

Who said anything about war? As you said, the Annas have essentially magic cameras and recorders, but we don't see them spreading the technology, even if to make a profit. Yes, the Anna from Beach Scramble gives away pictures, but that's about it. Can't comment on Heroes and what the Anna there does with the videos, as I don't play it.

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