Guest Dreamyboi

What are you hoping for Story-wise?

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I'd like to see a more "adult"-style narration of the game.  I mean like certain animes, which can be suggestive and occasionally lewd, and quite funny, but not too base.  Somewhat like Konosuba, which will unfortunately probably never get a major release video game.  

 

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12 minutes ago, BrownBagLunch said:

IS might not do something like this, because it might upset the long-time fans with it's fan servicy nature

I severely doubt IS gives two craps about upsetting longtime fans with fanservice.

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On 1.4.2018 at 3:29 PM, EdeaCreamer said:

Ew, people actually like the characterization of second-gen units? 

After playing Heirs of Fate, i vastly prefer Gen 2 units over their Parents. Alooooooooooooot.

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1 hour ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

I severely doubt IS gives two craps about upsetting longtime fans with fanservice.

I honestly hope that's not true, but your most likely right

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can I ask why people hate fanservice so much? I mean what's wrong with the occasional skimpy swimsuit or outfit every so often. I don't personally see too much of a problem with fanservice so long as it isn't intrusive like camilla or tharja who are just there to fill a quota. I mean if it makes sense with the context of the narrative or characters I don't really see an issue with it.

10 hours ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

I'd like to see a more "adult"-style narration of the game.  I mean like certain animes, which can be suggestive and occasionally lewd, and quite funny, but not too base. 

dunno why but I immediately thought of devilman when I read that. I mean I wouldn't mind it but that's a little dark for FE standards especially with more recent entries

Edited by Otts486

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3 minutes ago, Otts486 said:

can I ask why people hate fanservice so much? I mean what's wrong with the occasional skimpy swimsuit or outfit every so often. I don't personally see too much of a problem with fanservice so long as it isn't intrusive like camilla or tharja who are just there to fill a quota. I mean if it makes sense with the context of the narrative or characters I don't really see an issue with it.

I honestly wouldn't have that much of a problem with it if I didn't still have to live with my parents.

Another reason I think people hate fanservice is that effort that went there could've gone to something more important like story or proper character development.  Of course, I'm not clear how what the artists do connects with what the writers do.

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9 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

I honestly wouldn't have that much of a problem with it if I didn't still have to live with my parents.

Another reason I think people hate fanservice is that effort that went there could've gone to something more important like story or proper character development.  Of course, I'm not clear how what the artists do connects with what the writers do.

but that's the thing if done right fanservice can work to help in character development. It's interesting to see how these characters react to situations that lead them to be sexualized be it comedic or serious.  It helps add a little depth to them to see them in different scenarios and how they react in said scenarios leading us to learn more about them as people. It can also lead to seeing how characters utilize their own sexuality to their advantage or some such like Charlotte for example.

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38 minutes ago, Otts486 said:

but that's the thing if done right fanservice can work to help in character development.

IF. FE didn't do it right so far. And tbh, it doesn't fit in the Medival theme of FE. 

I mean, don't get me wrong. FE always had fanservice, but Fates took it to whole another level and instead of Character having Fanservice, they became Fanservice the character. 

Edited by Shrimperor

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1 hour ago, Otts486 said:

can I ask why people hate fanservice so much? I mean what's wrong with the occasional skimpy swimsuit or outfit every so often. I don't personally see too much of a problem with fanservice so long as it isn't intrusive like camilla or tharja who are just there to fill a quota. I mean if it makes sense with the context of the narrative or characters I don't really see an issue with it.

Because it just immediately cheapens whatever narrative and world they try to craft when they heavily rely on fanservice. It just kills the image of the game. 

It makes no fucking sense 99% of the time. The 1% is with dancers, where yeah, fanservice makes a hit of sense. But Paladins riding around in thongs, insanely dumb battle armor for Wyvern riders, the weird battle underwear that Fighters and Bandits wear?  

And you can just hear the boardroom talk when it's so blatant. 

"What's an easy way to sell this game to 12 year old boys and sad lonely otaku?" 

"Trends show that 12 year old boys and sad lonely otaku love those terrible, dumb wish fulfillment anime, and those are chock-full of terrible, over the top fanservice."

"WELL, CRAM THAT SHIT IN THERE! AND PUT A FUCKING BEACH EPISODE IN BECAUSE I LOVE MONEY!"  

The long and short of it is, if the people making the game don't give two shits about the presentation of their game, then I won't give two shits about the presentation of their game. And the worst part is, it didn't used to be like this. I used to like the presentation of Fire Emblem. But Fates and Heroes took that and absolutely ruined it. The Fire Emblem I used to enjoy is not the Fire Emblem most of the gaming world is aware of, and I'm not talking about gameplay here. 

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(Nevermind, I got it back somehow)

@Otts486

It's the needless increased amounts of fanservice and player pandering that gets on my nerves. Think about how much time was wasted on the creepy face touching minigame, writing a fuckton of supports along with S supports for each character, the skinship, the jiggle physics on Kagero barely anyone knows about, the child units, the child unit paralogues and designs, the S supports for them, that stupid fetish-y cutscene for Camilla, the needless third path that makes everyone proud of you and love you sooooo much, the needless pandering to pedophiles by letting you marry characters that look (and in Elise' case, ACT) like children.

Think about how much of this could have been used to improve things people would care about in the long run that they can't get from a quick rule 34 search like: 

The Character Writing, The Plot, The Worldbuilding, Fixing Plotholes, Gameplay Balancing, etc.

 

I'm not saying player pandering via mishandled excessive fanservice is what killed Fates' potential debating what did is useless at this point but it played a part in it, having to rely on stuff like this draws attention away from things Fire Emblem fans play the damn game in the first place for.

1 hour ago, Otts486 said:

It helps add a little depth to them to see them in different scenarios and how they react in said scenarios leading us to learn more about them as people. It can also lead to seeing how characters utilize their own sexuality to their advantage or some such like Charlotte for example.

That's one example.

What about characters like Camilla who's aggressive use of it made people completely uninterested in them and write them off as one note or Nyx who wouldn't be caught dead wearing what they wear in game but have to because otaku need to see an almost nude loli again? I'm not against a little fanservice, we've gotten it in the past. When it's so pronounced and such a noticeable amount of focus is poured into it though, it alienates and drives away fans who don't care about it and would rather see that time devoted to what made Fire Emblem itself to begin with.

Edited by Dreamyboi

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Ignore this post, it got glitched and I can't fix it.

Edited by Dreamyboi

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25 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Because it just immediately cheapens whatever narrative and world they try to craft when they heavily rely on fanservice. It just kills the image of the game. 

It makes no fucking sense 99% of the time. The 1% is with dancers, where yeah, fanservice makes a hit of sense. But Paladins riding around in thongs, insanely dumb battle armor for Wyvern riders, the weird battle underwear that Fighters and Bandits wear?  

And you can just hear the boardroom talk when it's so blatant. 

"What's an easy way to sell this game to 12 year old boys and sad lonely otaku?" 

"Trends show that 12 year old boys and sad lonely otaku love those terrible, dumb wish fulfillment anime, and those are chock-full of terrible, over the top fanservice."

"WELL, CRAM THAT SHIT IN THERE! AND PUT A FUCKING BEACH EPISODE IN BECAUSE I LOVE MONEY!"  

The long and short of it is, if the people making the game don't give two shits about the presentation of their game, then I won't give two shits about the presentation of their game. And the worst part is, it didn't used to be like this. I used to like the presentation of Fire Emblem. But Fates and Heroes took that and absolutely ruined it. The Fire Emblem I used to enjoy is not the Fire Emblem most of the gaming world is aware of, and I'm not talking about gameplay here. 

There's this too. I mean impractical designs aren't exactly new to Fire Emblem (Wendy says hello) but when I see boob shaped torso armor, fighters in fighty undies, and subtle jiggle physics on the character models, I see a story I wont be able to take seriously no matter how edgy and "tragic" it tries to make itself.

A game that let's you marry a scantily dressed prepubescent girl one moment and spouts "justice is an illusion" the next where the final boss is a cackling one dimensional light-novel fantasy tier villain who's actualy being controlled by a somehow even lamer insane dragon that summons wormholes but is beaten by the power of friendship sorry I still can't get over this shit kinda already shat the bed.

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@Slumber @Dreamyboi Okay so I will conced the point that fates went waaaay too overboard with the fanservice. I mean seriously modern anime trends already present their own problems in the anime industry but bringing those trends into fire emblem is just...ugh why. Seriously fates feels like it was written by a collaboration of kawahara and mashima and that is just a terrifying thought. I’ve stated on other threads I feel Camilla is fanservice done waay wrong because there’s never really any given reason as to why she dresses like that and her obsession over corrin other than to appeal to the lowest common demoninator. 

11 hours ago, Slumber said:

WELL, CRAM THAT SHIT IN THERE! AND PUT A FUCKING BEACH EPISODE IN BECAUSE I LOVE MONEY!"

I really gotta ask though. What’s wrong with the occasional beach dlc/banner? I personally see nothing wrong with it because it makes sense narratively and isn’t intrusive. All it is is just fun simple fanservice and to me that’s perfectly ok so long as it doesn’t bleed too heavily into the main story or hurt any of the characters it features. Actually  the awakening beach dlc is a pretty good example of character development through fanservice. It isn’t much and is mostly comedic but we do learn a little more about the characters in the DLC like Cordelia and her insecurities surrounding her um chest or chrom’s utter embarrassment and dorkiness when he puts his weird swimsuit on. 

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7 hours ago, Otts486 said:

I really gotta ask though. What’s wrong with the occasional beach dlc/banner? I personally see nothing wrong with it because it makes sense narratively and isn’t intrusive. All it is is just fun simple fanservice and to me that’s perfectly ok so long as it doesn’t bleed too heavily into the main story or hurt any of the characters it features. Actually  the awakening beach dlc is a pretty good example of character development through fanservice. It isn’t much and is mostly comedic but we do learn a little more about the characters in the DLC like Cordelia and her insecurities surrounding her um chest or chrom’s utter embarrassment and dorkiness when he puts his weird swimsuit on. 

I dont think anyone here has a problem with Beach DLC or holiday banners with skimpy clothing. It's putting it into the main game and trying to play it straight in the context of a weighty story with characters you're /supposed/ to take seriously that's the issue.

Fanservice isnt inherently a bad thing. If done in moderation. Hell, I like the idea of having a My Unit(as long as they're not the main character), and I like S -Supports. But what Fates did was very in lieu with what the hundreds of trashy light novel/anime that are pumped out every year are doing, and that severely downgrades the quality of the game. Its why so much of the fandom has a bone to pick with FE lately(that and loli dragons *shudders*)

I genuinely dont mind fanservice, even the more extreme types. I just wish it was relegated to DLC only, and not shoved in my face when I'm trying to fight a dragon or win a war.

 

Edited by Talcinel

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1 hour ago, Talcinel said:

I dont think anyone here has a problem with Beach DLC or holiday banners with skimpy clothing. It's putting it into the main game and trying to play it straight in the context of a weighty story with characters you're /supposed/ to take seriously that's the issue.

Fanservice isnt inherently a bad thing. If done in moderation. Hell, I like the idea of having a My Unit(as long as they're not the main character), and I like S -Supports. But what Fates did was very in lieu with what the hundreds of trashy light novel/anime that are pumped out every year are doing, and that severely downgrades. Its why so much of the fandom has a bone to pick with FE lately(that and loli dragons *shudders*)

I genuinely dont mind fanservice, even the more extreme types. I just wish it was relegated to DLC only, and not shoved in my face when I'm trying to fight a dragon or win a war.

 

And I agree with you 100%. Seriously you took the words right out of my mouth

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No more clone characters. Instead of using a popularity contest to determine characters, come up with something original. I like Tharja, but I like her in her game. Not in the next one as a recolor. I would also like more stuff like Dragon Veins in more maps. Or destructible terrain and walls and such, to add another layer of strategy to maps.

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Hmm, let me think for a bit. I wants pretty average story. Something like this...

___

In short, I would like to see a continent, with 3 kingdoms, while 2 of them were at war. Portagonist was unlucky prince *insert name* one of smallest neutral country.

Biggest kindom was Empire-type, wants to unite continent no matter what, even if conquer by force. Second one, was pretty pacific kingdom, who doesnt wants a war (obviously). One thousand years ago, continent was united, but when late leader died, his two sons both wanted to be a ruler, and between them brokes a war.

This is when kingdoms was divided in three. Both of them died trying to conquer each other, and their descendants stops war and lived in peace. 

Third country was formed by brothers younger sister, who did not want to get involved in war between brothers. Protagonst and prince of this neurtral country, keeping same policy as their ancestors, and didnt involve himself in war between Pacific and Empire kingdoms. But, something happens. Both kingdoms in any way, trying to involve small county in war.

There was a small village in Protagonist country, which was close to Pacific kingdom borders. And in this village, lived our Avatar, a simple farmer (Avatar's starting class will be Villager), who really lovers his quiet. But, sadly one day, Empires army was invaded, for simple reason to provoke Prince to act. Village was destoryed.

Avatar survives due *insert reason*. He was very crushed inside after losing of loved ones. But, then, he ask himself "How Empire army, could invade from Pacific country side?". 

Then he comes in terrific conclusin by *insert reason*, Pacific country was let the Empire army to attack neutral county from their borders.

Avatar was filled with rage and hatred, towards both kingdoms, and swore himself that will do anything but involve Prince-Protagonist in war with both kindoms. And destoythem all.

But what can do a simple farmer...?

Why they wants to involve small neutral county so bad?

How Prince and Avatar will deal with this kind of disaster?

Find out in upcoming Fire Emblem! Teehee.

___

That's it. I want something like this.

Oh right. Villager class moved below all classes, and its stats was nerfed. So, when Avatar would use Master seal its would look something like this.

Villager->Merc\Archer\Myrmidon\etc->Hero\Sniper\Kensai\etc. Though, at start only one class he could change into, this class will be determined when you creating Avatar (something like in Fates, when you choose your favorite class).

 

ps, sry for bad grammar, just wanted to share this so bad :)

Edited by Zerael

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Honestly, I've never been impressed by FE stories, including the GBA titles. It's all GoT wannabe where failure and death are the only ways to impart lessons to the main characters. I don't find that storytelling all that appealing or insightful. I felt like in Echoes they tried something different. in that Alm and Celica never changed, but everyone around them did. So if we look at it like that, they weren't the heroes, they were just the catalyst. 

What I would like is a well-told story, with concise narrative, well constructed characters and interesting conflicts. It doesn't need to be dark and gritty to be interesting or well written, it just needs to be professional. 

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I'd agree I don't think any FE game as had a particularly good story. Most just serviceable, which is fine enough, while some were plain bad (Conquest). I don't really mind just a servicable story and I think that's all I'm really hoping for in the next one. The gameplay and characters are what carries an FE game for me the most, anyway. That's why Conquest remains my favorite overall since everything BUT the story I enjoyed quite a lot.

On 4/11/2018 at 3:43 PM, Kammaru said:

 I felt like in Echoes they tried something different. in that Alm and Celica never changed, but everyone around them did. So if we look at it like that, they weren't the heroes, they were just the catalyst.

I'm not sure what you mean. Celica changed a lot later on in the story.

Spoiler

She became much more trusting.

 

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37 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

I'm not sure what you mean. Celica changed a lot later on in the story.

She and Alm both start out as powerful mary sue-ish characters and they both end that way. She doesn't really fail or lose anything based on any decision that she made. If she had truly died, and her death made Alm see past his own rage or something, then that would be a loss, but as it stands they both suffer nothing for their own choices imo. It's all very fairy-tale like, which is not bad per say, but it's not a complicated confluence of incongruous conflict and decision either. Where as other characters, mostly Clive really, are truly changed through their experiences and thus more hero-like. I think the intent was that Alm was aggressive and Celica was passive, and that her giving in to the gods and him fighting railing against them, was some kind of literal dichotomy, but it isn't very well represented..especially since Alm seems more than willing to be passive and Celica seems more than willing to split a few skulls. 

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Personally I find the Echoes characters to be extremely bland and with one-dimensional characteristics and tropes, so it’s probably just me around here that I wish the cast isn’t what was present in Echoes. The only characters I particularly liked and thought were memorable  were Sonya and Tatiana (the meme generator).

I don’t see how the rest of the cast were “much better” than Awakening/Fates let alone any Fire Emblem title when they were pretty much the same with tropes but much diluted down with nothing but what their character screams. Example being: “I’m Clive, I’m good and I erect when I see Mathilda fight on the battlefield.”, “I’m Mathilda, I’m blonde Clive and I will die for Clive.” or “I’m Silque. I’m the 83948492th priestess archetype wandering and healing the lands and preaching for peace and Mother Mila.”

Call me an Awakening/Fates, fanservice, waifu-trash all you want but I find characters like Camilla, Tharja, Charlotte and Kagero much more intriguing and want characters like them to return more than most of the female cast in Echoes or any of the older entry characters. And don’t give me the ‘fanservice designs ruining immersion’ argument, because older games aren’t saints in this department with Lyn’s jiggle physics and female characters revealing their legs. (Yes, legs were risque at the time)

But if we do get more characters in the manner of the Echoes cast, hopefully there’s one or two few interesting ones in the bunch because I’ll probably forget the rest of them.

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22 minutes ago, Kammaru said:

She and Alm both start out as powerful mary sue-ish characters and they both end that way. She doesn't really fail or lose anything based on any decision that she made. If she had truly died, and her death made Alm see past his own rage or something, then that would be a loss, but as it stands they both suffer nothing for their own choices imo. It's all very fairy-tale like, which is not bad per say, but it's not a complicated confluence of incongruous conflict and decision either. Where as other characters, mostly Clive really, are truly changed through their experiences and thus more hero-like. I think the intent was that Alm was aggressive and Celica was passive, and that her giving in to the gods and him fighting railing against them, was some kind of literal dichotomy, but it isn't very well represented..especially since Alm seems more than willing to be passive and Celica seems more than willing to split a few skulls. 

Oh I agree. It does seem that's what they had intended, and then it didn't really pan out. I had hoped Celica's side would be a good alternative to Alm's method of doing things, yet like you say, she doesn't show much issue beating some people up, and overall it ended up being hardly different. And then her succumbing to Jedah so easily ended up making her whole side seemed weaker and just leads to Alm saving her for a typical "hero saves the princess" outcome. It still wasn't a BAD story,  just I was expecting more, especially with how promising the split paths idea seemed at the start. I think the side characters aren't particularly strong either, but you're right they do seem to develop more than the leading lords do, at least.

Edited by Alkaid

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59 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

Oh I agree. It does seem that's what they had intended, and then it didn't really pan out. I had hoped Celica's side would be a good alternative to Alm's method of doing things, yet like you say, she doesn't show much issue beating some people up, and overall it ended up being hardly different. And then her succumbing to Jedah so easily ended up making her whole side seemed weaker and just leads to Alm saving her for a typical "her saves the princess" outcome. It still wasn't a BAD story,  just I was expecting more, especially with how promising the split paths idea seemed at the start.

Honestly would have been hard pressed to accomplish within the confines of an RPG strategy game based on combat. What could have been done is a different approach though to troops and recruitment, though it would have been a difficult task for a famicom game to give. Something like having Alm be about forcing people under his boot, and Celica being about choice and free-will, then have Alm's choices backfire. Maybe he becomes king earlier and there is a coup where he is attacked and has to kill his own people etc, though that is very derivative of other FE games. Honestly, being in between games that were already developed as a Gaiden, and now a remake, they had little room to move in the narrative. It's a fairy-tale, and that's all it was ever meant to be imo. 

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I'm wondering if they're going to step away from the classic "The real enemy is a dragon" cliché once more...

 

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