Guest Dreamyboi

What are you hoping for Story-wise?

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19 hours ago, thanny said:

I don’t see how the rest of the cast were “much better” than Awakening/Fates let alone any Fire Emblem title when they were pretty much the same with tropes but much diluted down with nothing but what their character screams. Example being: “I’m Clive, I’m good and I erect when I see Mathilda fight on the battlefield.”, “I’m Mathilda, I’m blonde Clive and I will die for Clive.” or “I’m Silque. I’m the 83948492th priestess archetype wandering and healing the lands and preaching for peace and Mother Mila.”

I mean, if this is all you got from Clive's discussions with Alm and the other soldiers, then I'm not really sure what else there is to say. Clive begins as someone who is a little too high on his own self import, then slowly loses everything, including Mathilda, and only gets a semblance of what he lost back after a young peasant volunteers to help him and then in a short time takes back everything Clive lost..again, including Mathilda. It isn't until he watches Alm be brave and selfless that he realizes what he has done was cowardice, not bravery, and that by upholding his beliefs and social class above the needs of the common man, he lost his country, his castle, his title, his partner, and his best friend. Mathilda doesn't give a damn about social withstanding, she just wants to fight and prove herself on the battlefield. There is a passive argument to be made that she is proving to her father that she could a better warrior than any son he would ever have. So yes, there are motivations and conflict within these characters, at least the two you mentioned as bland, diluted tropes, with nothing but what they scream.

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1 hour ago, Kammaru said:

I mean, if this is all you got from Clive's discussions with Alm and the other soldiers, then I'm not really sure what else there is to say. Clive begins as someone who is a little too high on his own self import, then slowly loses everything, including Mathilda, and only gets a semblance of what he lost back after a young peasant volunteers to help him and then in a short time takes back everything Clive lost..again, including Mathilda. It isn't until he watches Alm be brave and selfless that he realizes what he has done was cowardice, not bravery, and that by upholding his beliefs and social class above the needs of the common man, he lost his country, his castle, his title, his partner, and his best friend. Mathilda doesn't give a damn about social withstanding, she just wants to fight and prove herself on the battlefield. There is a passive argument to be made that she is proving to her father that she could a better warrior than any son he would ever have. So yes, there are motivations and conflict within these characters, at least the two you mentioned as bland, diluted tropes, with nothing but what they scream.

Hey man, after Awakening/Fates, it can be a little jarring to have characters who have a little subtlety and don't just shout their personality at the top of their lungs. 

I'm kidding. Mostly. Sort of. Kinda. Not really. 

Echoes isn't all smooth sailing. As much as I see them as a step in the right direction, there's still Edgelord Squidw--I mean Deen. Hard to get a flatter character than that. Genny and Silque do lack a lot of character compared to the rest of the cast, too. And if you don't take Faye as a deconstruction of the Tharja/Camilla character archetype, I don't think anyone's really going to get anything out of her. 

So there's still plenty of room to improve from Echoes. 

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13 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Echoes isn't all smooth sailing. As much as I see them as a step in the right direction, there's still Edgelord Squidw--I mean Deen. Hard to get a flatter character than that. Genny and Silque do lack a lot of character compared to the rest of the cast, too. And if you don't take Faye as a deconstruction of the Tharja/Camilla character archetype, I don't think anyone's really going to get anything out of her. 

So there's still plenty of room to improve from Echoes. 

There's plenty of room in any FE, ever, at least, imo. I've never seen a cast that's all perfect etc and doesn't have quotes or passages in support that make my eyes roll. Fates and Awakening even have some diamonds in the rough, but they did seem to be trying to push too many messages and or force conversations rather than make them feel organic there. 

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21 minutes ago, Kammaru said:

There's plenty of room in any FE, ever, at least, imo. I've never seen a cast that's all perfect etc and doesn't have quotes or passages in support that make my eyes roll. Fates and Awakening even have some diamonds in the rough, but they did seem to be trying to push too many messages and or force conversations rather than make them feel organic there. 

I want to say FE7 or FE9 are about as close to "perfect" as the series has gotten. Still far from perfect, and still some duds(Just... Any Vaida supports), head scratchers and blatantly obvious missed opportunities(Wow Raven, you sure don't have much to say to Hector, the heir to the house that you think ruined your life and family), but solid. 

Echoes also did something I really liked in that it had a pretty strong regular cast of characters who had a lot of showtime in the story(Gray, Tobin, Lucas and Clive for Alm, Mae, Boey and Saber for Celica) and had something to say in most situations. 

Have the strong cast of characters with a solid amount of varied supports from FE7/9, have plenty of base/flavor conversations like 9(And 10) and Echoes, and give it the presentation of Echoes. 

That's probably ideal for me on how Fire Emblem would handle its cast. As much as there are solid characters in Awakening and Fates, they tend to get drowned out by... Well, like characters like Vaike or Peri. And the overall handling of characters in those games don't help. 

Edited by Slumber

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13 hours ago, Slumber said:

Echoes isn't all smooth sailing. As much as I see them as a step in the right direction, there's still Edgelord Squidw--I mean Deen. Hard to get a flatter character than that. Genny and Silque do lack a lot of character compared to the rest of the cast, too. And if you don't take Faye as a deconstruction of the Tharja/Camilla character archetype, I don't think anyone's really going to get anything out of her. 

So there's still plenty of room to improve from Echoes. 

Let's not forget that Toshiyuki Kusakihara who was:

was also

When the guy who is at least partially responsible for giving a spine twisting, cleavage showing Escher Girl-esque pose to a war prisoner soon to be killed and the numerous examples of weirdly designed female (and in some cases Male as well) characters for the sake of fanservice is the director of an old game's remake it might explain it's shortcomings. The lack of supports in terms of quality and quantity makes sense, letting the writers characterize a cast that wouldn't inevitably fuck and make a baby was probably the last thing on his to do list. Him just saying "yeah just toss them in, they need to be there right? just make a few and keep them short." seems in character at this point.

It would also explain why cartoony looking villains are still present.

Edited by Dreamyboi

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23 hours ago, Kammaru said:

I mean, if this is all you got from Clive's discussions with Alm and the other soldiers, then I'm not really sure what else there is to say.

Then why is it okay for people to completely disregard Camilla’s history and personality as a character and generalize her to being just a “soulless fanservice boob machine” or Tharja being a “one dimensional avatar-obsessive stalker”? Obviously there are more aspects to Clive like you listed, but that’s the hypocrisy that I see around here.

“Shouting their personality” isn’t exactly exclusive to Awakening/Fates and it’s just a matter of opinions, some people like the subtlety that some characters bring, some people don’t. I’m certainly not implying “muh awakening/fates character are flawless urs are shite”, but the same criticisms towards those two games’ casts can be redirected to any past Fire Emblem games/Echoes.

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31 minutes ago, thanny said:

Then why is it okay for people to completely disregard Camilla’s history and personality as a character and generalize her to being just a “soulless fanservice boob machine” or Tharja being a “one dimensional avatar-obsessive stalker”? Obviously there are more aspects to Clive like you listed, but that’s the hypocrisy that I see around here.

Fair enough, but in this particular discourse, the one you and I are having, there is nothing being said to muddy the name of any character. So I propose, that we just stick with that, because who knows, maybe we could have an enlightening conversation. At the very least, we can have one without so many biases present. 

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Maybe for once, a female lord having her own story, running full steam ahead, and slam that train into the epilogue? Not something where she gets shafted by the male lead? And, revisit, expand, deconstruct, and reconstruct, the archetype of Roy from FE6, and have this new lord focus more on strategy and diplomacy, and write a more realistic narrative of how she grows, learns, struggles, and eventually succeeds as the general of her army.

Also, while this overlaps with gameplay, I'd like one where you have to actively rely on your troops to defeat the big bad. None of the chosen hero defeating the big bad, but everyone carrying their load in defeating the big bad. As flawed as Conquest was, at least it didn't force me to have Corrin face off Takumi.

Finally let's return to the detailed, and politics-focused worldbuilding that made Tellius, Jugdral, and FE6 Elibe.

Edited by henrymidfields

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Something completely separate from Awakening. That's all.

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Going to be honest.

Nothing.

I never played Fire Emblem looking for a masterpiece of story telling that most fans seem to expect from the series. Im just looking for something enjoyable. Any "hopes" I have come from more of a character standpoint. Give me some decent characters, give me some decent concepts, and I will be happy.

Just at least be a tad bit better than Fates. If we get something on par with even just Awakening again, Ill be content. I didnt even mind Fate's story all that much, I just got tired of seeing FE fans bitch about it for 2 years.

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I'd like to have a non-royal protagonist, especially after Fates(way too many Royals: the game). It's honestly pretty unlikely, considering that Fire Emblem as a whole is for some reason obsessed with royalty, but I can dream. Possibilities:

1. You (the protagonist) are the head of a small mercenary group or a young up-and-coming soldier in a country's army. Bonus points if it has choices that can change the direction of the story.

2. The heir to the kingdom is killed, and the protagonist has to act as their stand-in. 

3. You join a rebellion to overthrow the corrupt rulers of the kingdom and install a better system of government than one predicated on having dragon's blood. And there's no nice secret heir or anything, you're just overthrowing all of the royalty.

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On 14/3/2018 at 6:58 AM, Slumber said:

On a more serious note, I'll hit some generals I want:

  • Shades of gray in the villains. Whether it be sympathetic backstories, or clear, understandable motivations, give us ANYTHING that makes the villains not as cartoonish as they were in Awakening and Fates.
  • World building. Fates dropped the ball harder than any game in the franchise, barring possibly SS, a game that was simply made because IS had some extra time and resources in between FE7 and 9. Build a world, mythology, ACTUALLY NAME THE CONTINENT THE GAME IS SET ON, all of this. It makes the world believable.
  • Either stick to a dark tone or a light hearted one. The constant flipping between "Oh man, I can't believe X was just brutally murdered" and "Oh man, look at this whacky zany character and look at their shenanigans" absolutely ruined the tone of Fates. Awakening kind of pulled it off because it never quite went grimdark like Fates did, and the serious moments brought the tone down for a while. You also didn't have stuff like people bringing up how the goofy prankster stoner priest died suddenly then just everyone moves on. It's so tone deaf and stupid.
  • Preferably, no dragon boss. Do something new.
  • If there is a dragon boss, don't make him so unbelievably powerful that the moment something that makes them seem weak happens, their entire existence becomes a contradiction.
  • No goddamn time/space travel.

I feel like a lot of people will echo these sentiments, but there's a reason for that.

yeah, basically this is what i'd like to see as well

i'd love to see a villain who shares a particular bond with the protagonist

my villain would be very shaman king-like: he would often wonder whether the villain is necessarily the "bad guy that must be defeated because the story says so" and the protagonis the "good guy that has to win because he thinks he is good" (thus the villain sometime would steal the role of main character)

i' d like the player to actually doubt if what he is doing is the right thing or not, and i think a good way to do it is to make him face a very complexed and insecure villain, who would also sometime talk directly with the player, brealing the fourth wall

sadly, this is never gonna happen, so i'm ok with everything unless they make another garon or validar

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Honestly, the only Echoes characters that really got to me were Berkut and Rinea (which, amusingly, were part of the few new additions to Echoes from Gaiden). The whole scenario was 10 kinds of screwed up and I found it fascinating to see more players lose it over Rinea forgiving Berkut verses Berkut's trauma, loss of identity, and his being manipulated to go down the darkest path somehow less messed up. It's framing, for sure, and if anything, it made Rinea out to be the most honorable character in the whole game or the most passive.

 

I like that kind of moral grayness and the idea of trying to see situations from all angles, but hoo, that get's so touchy with certain people. My favs are problematic, and I agree Alm and Celica were pretty plain by comparison. (And I hated characters like Camilla and Xander for a really long time.)

Edited by Altrosa

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On 13.4.2018 at 7:47 AM, Slumber said:

That's probably ideal for me on how Fire Emblem would handle its cast. As much as there are solid characters in Awakening and Fates, they tend to get drowned out by... Well, like characters like Vaike or Peri. And the overall handling of characters in those games don't help. 

Not to derail the topic, but what's wrong with Vaike?

---

On-topic: I think my wishes go in line with most of the users' here. I personally would be perfectly fine with a generic plot if it has likeable characters and makes sense. I hear Awakening getting bashed a lot for its story, and while I can certainly see it being perceived as underwhelming and having other problems, I'm honestly quite fine with that game's story. In a similar way, I can overlook the flaws in Shadows of Valentia's plot for how solid the majority of it is, and how well told it is overall. Fates, the other FE I've played, is the example of what not to do, though others have stated why plenty of times already so I'll refrain from that.

Still, if I got to make decisions, what would I want?
I'm not a writer, so I don't have a draft or anything, but personally, I'd enjoy an underdog story. Give me a smaller cast (and have it be well developed in return), make the lord unit the leader of a group of revolutioners, set the game in a country with many warring factions. Maybe have the goal be uniting a bunch of smaller factions into an army that can stand against the tyrannical overlord that threatens them all? I could see that scenario making for some interesting support conversations between members of rival clans, and it also lends itself to world building.

Generally, I'm a fan of low key things. I prefer character driven stories to huge epics, with relatable, down to earth protagonists over all-powerful half-gods. The rough idea I outlined above is neither highly original, nor incredibly clever or anything like that. But I feel it would be an interesting direction for the series to go in, and I can see a more capable writer than I am one doing something really good with the concept.

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1 hour ago, Funky Tim said:

Not to derail the topic, but what's wrong with Vaike?

I could go on about how he's incredibly vain and vapid doorknob who talks in the third person for no other reason than to be annoying, but for the sake of brevity I'll just say he FORGOT TO BRING A WEAPON TO A FIGHT. 

Your first proper introduction to his character is possibly the single dumbest thing a soldier has ever done in the franchise. FE7 Bartre, who feels physical pain from thinking too much, isn't that stupid. 

And this happens so early in the game that it cements that you're not playing a typical Fire Emblem game. You're playing Loony Toons the SRPG with anime husbandos and waifus.

Edited by Slumber

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53 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I could go on about how he's incredibly vain and vapid doorknob who talks in the third person for no other reason than to be annoying, but for the sake of brevity I'll just say he FORGOT TO BRING A WEAPON TO A FIGHT. 

Your first proper introduction to his character is possibly the single dumbest thing a soldier has ever done in the franchise. FE7 Bartre, who feels physical pain from thinking too much, isn't that stupid. 

And this happens so early in the game that it cements that you're not playing a typical Fire Emblem game. You're playing Loony Toons the SRPG with anime husbandos and waifus.

So in the middle of a fight, Vaike forgot to fight?

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7 hours ago, Slumber said:

I could go on about how he's incredibly vain and vapid doorknob who talks in the third person for no other reason than to be annoying, but for the sake of brevity I'll just say he FORGOT TO BRING A WEAPON TO A FIGHT. 

Your first proper introduction to his character is possibly the single dumbest thing a soldier has ever done in the franchise. FE7 Bartre, who feels physical pain from thinking too much, isn't that stupid. 

And this happens so early in the game that it cements that you're not playing a typical Fire Emblem game. You're playing Loony Toons the SRPG with anime husbandos and waifus.

Ah, I see what you mean. I think this comes down to preferences though. Personally, I enjoyed his character for what it was and found him to be entertaining enough. But I can see where you're coming from if, unlike me at the time, you're used to older characters being more serious than that.

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8 hours ago, Funky Tim said:

Ah, I see what you mean. I think this comes down to preferences though. Personally, I enjoyed his character for what it was and found him to be entertaining enough. But I can see where you're coming from if, unlike me at the time, you're used to older characters being more serious than that.

I didn't mind Vaike the first time I played, mostly because there were two other certain characters who took my ire much more consistently beyond an annoying introduction, but a second playthrough really put him on my shitlist. Similar deal with Kellam when I thought about his character for more than 2 seconds, and I was reminded of stuff about his character when I started a new playthrough. 

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Honestly it'd be cool if we could try something way outside the box - since Fire Emblem Awakening was supposed to be a celebration of all things Fire Emblem, and Fates was...Fates, I think it'd be cool to have a completely different setting, types of characters, general plot outline, all of that.

Corrin being half-dragon really didn't do much for the plots of Birthright or Conquest at all, and was just decoration for their character - it only really mattered in Revelations, and that's technically DLC.  So if IS wanted to do another dragon/beast shifter lord character (which I would be all for), they should make it important to how the rest of the world views them, maybe as some sort of freak or an outsider.  They don't even have to come from the big kingdom of light and goodness - they could come from a small, backwater nation and earn the respect of the other kingdoms.  And maybe actually explore what the other kingdoms are like?  And get a feel for what's going on in the world?  Basically, I just want a really fleshed out lore, world building, and characters, especially our main lord (because look at everything with Corrin).  Make the protag actually suffer consequences for their actions, and let them mess up more than just "oops I'm not good enough for *insert parent, love interest, or mentor here*, I NEED TO GET BETTER".

Oh!  Also it'd be cool, if IS is likely going to go with the lord character that comes from an established, up-there kingdom again, if this Fire Emblem was more politically focused?  Like you could actually understand the complicated motives of each of the other kingdoms, and the protag understands the delicate balancing act that's going on before it all tumbles into war?

Tl;dr, either something radically different, or, if they go with a similar setting/plot/themes as the other games, they really dig into the gritty details of everything that's going on in the world and the implications and consequences of everyon'e actions.

Alsomorefemalelordswouldbecoolthanks

And an antagonist that isn't mustache-twirling evil and has have purple skin; that if you were to view the story in their perspective, the roles would swap, and the antagonist would be the hero, and the protagonist would be the villain?

And maybe don't introduce characters for no better reason than to be a mascot that dies for pity points LILLITH

And maybe don't make the protagonist dragon jesus and hand them everything, including a magic sword that literally flies into their hand.

AND MAYBE-

Can you tell I'm a little salty over Fates I'll just see myself out okay thanks bye.

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Artist: Senri Kita (The 2d artwork is tasteful and gorgeous)

Designer: Taeko Kaneda ( He was one of the map designers for PoR & RD I believe. )

Composer: Yoshito Hirano ( Primary music for PoR & RD )

A merger of PoR/RDs varied map objectives/design, Awakenings relationship/dual attack systems, Sacred Stones /Awakenings Overworld mixed with a few Echoes properties like the dungeons & towns, and a non-generic protagonist that is more relatable like those in Suikoden 2. 

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I want good surprises, like FE4. Tell a good story and I'll be happy.

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What i would really like would either be setting that borrows characters/designs from all kinds of fairytales,though storywise the only thing i could imagine with that would be really cheesy;another aspect that could be interesring involves norse (?)mythology:like,picture it-you(the avatar)are a high priest or something and can come into contact with the 'gods'-you sense a danger one day-the snake thingy which is a major villain in a lot of legends regarding thor-is threatening to destroy the world(s)-to defeat it you team up with the main lord and travel trough many dimensions to obtain/gather an army of the strongest warriors of your world-even the ones that already passed away-tying into the elegy of the brave leak-like imagine traveling to muspelheim/nilfheim etc.-there could be an emotional buildup,knowing that they will disappear after the war because they are,in fact long gone anyway and only 'temporary'available-the different worlds/stations of beings could mean different lords that would come to the story gradually;in the end the fire emblem could be something like mjolnir or something that the main lord gets at the start of the game and gets a final version at the end;in the finale,naga/a high god/godess could bring the characters back to life (because i could imagine that is/nintendo would not be that confident in themselves to let your entire army die);

dlc would be your army travelling into the world of the amiibo chara and defeating them on one of their classic maps-asgard(?) could be a hub of some sort and per bridge that lets you travel you could access multiplayer etc.

Sorry for the length i just thought that this idea would make sense in regards to some aspects is seems to push.^^;

I also know that the dlc gate in awakening had the tree motive but it was just for aesthetics in my book...

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