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Who Should Be a Future Legendary?


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49 minutes ago, DraceEmpressa said:

Isn't that what alts are for ? Alts usually are better usability-wise than their originals,  whales will pull for them, and how much of those people who whines about alts are competitive player whales?No, they would be grateful for a stronger unit, uncaring who they are. That being said, gachas are usually still have f2p players no matter how brutal their summon rates and how much alts there is, but their life is supported by the whales. 

I am not completely sure whether alternate skins matter more or armor units matter more for attracting whales, but I am leaning towards armor units mattering more due to scoring potential.

Currently, free to play games still need a healthy population of algae, minnows, and dolphins for the gaming "ecosystem" for whales to thrive, however, to keep the algae and minnows alive, you just need to give the bare minimum of stuff to satisfy them. Being part of the top 5 players out of a population of 10 players does not feel as good as being part of the top 5 players out of a population of 100 players.

Edited by XRay
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1 hour ago, XRay said:

I am not completely sure whether alternate skins matter more or armor units matter more for attracting whales, but I am leaning towards armor units mattering more due to scoring potential.

Currently, free to play games still need a healthy population of algae, minnows, and dolphins for the gaming "ecosystem" for whales to thrive, however, to keep the algae and minnows alive, you just need to give the bare minimum of stuff to satisfy them. Being part of the top 5 players out of a population of 10 players does not feel as good as being part of the top 5 players out of a population of 100 players.

Both. There are not much unique/ranged armor in maingames, thus the only way for armors to be in is through alts. Implementing the Jugdral barons is possible, but hey, why not grab extra cash from the waifu/husbando while at it? 

Alts are not only the way for the unique classes, but also, even among whales there is people who only cares about their faves, who is there just to make a full team of their copies fully merged and built, and then do not roll anymore. Alts give these people incentive to roll again and make a viable arena team while sticking to their "faves only" rule. That Sakura whale is an example. 

Sure, but if IS needs to purge F2P players badly, they could have  decreasing the summon rate so it's as brutal as many common gachas. Here's the thing, IS perhaps did expect FEH to be many people's first gacha thus makes it less vicious than most gachas-but they are compensating for it with the bloated 5* pool. There is also the western/old mindset that they refuse to pay a penny for gachas, but console  rereleases is a fair game. FEH players is full of these peoplem who did not buy orbs but saves money for FE16. FEH isn't only a standalone gacha that can't worry about losing possible buyers of the console games. FEH also have its own rule to advertise older games in a subtle way as well stalling for FE16. They can't bother to lose the many potential buyers of FE16 if they were scorned by the gacha system. It wouldn't directly affect FEH, but it would affect FE16 future sales and IS wouldn't want that. 

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I've noticed that all non OC legendary heroes, apart of the obvious, is that they are later and more powerful versions of them in their respective games so far. We got Vanguard Ike as an earth hero, we got great lord Ephraim as a fire hero, and FGrima. So  that means we can narrow speculations about who could be a legendary hero with that alone, apart of a having big or small association with the element in question. 

With that, I wouldn't be surprised if we see emperor Arvis as a legendary fire hero, as he LOVES his Valflame. Besides, I don't think anyone would mind a second armored mage

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22 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

It seems like they've gotten away from the [So-and-so]'s [Weapon] naming convention, but maybe I'm just forgetting something obvious.

Oh, yeah, agreed. While I quite like Hector as a character, between the LA version and the upcoming brave one, I'd much rather a lot of different characters. I'd be up for like Lewyn, Ced, or maybe Medeus? Or Greil as a sort of PP version of Brave Ike! That'd be awesome. That said, if they're deadset on a popular lordish alt, maybe Camilla?

@Lewyn Wolf Beil could definitely work. Might seem disappointing downgrading from Armads, but it's a lot more likely for L!Hector than B!Hector. For Robin, I meant regular "High Deliverer" Robin vs. Grima.

I'd obviously much prefer Lewyn.  Ced would fit with Thracia more.  Medeus would be awesome though I don't know if they would do two legendary dragons in a row.  

For Robin.  Firstly they should have called him Grima.    The main art should have been of Grima or at the very least a huge part of the background, and all the attack animations should feature him not Robin.  For people who aren't familiar with Awakening it looks like an evil Robin that summons a pet dragon to fight for him.  

On the whale thing.  Yeah Zelgius appealed to whales cause of his high BST/power.  I think most whales are gacha veterans rather than Fire Emblem veterans, in which case they should just be releasing super powerful units with high BST regularly if they want to appeal to them.  They could release Armor Boyd with some exclusive skill, DC weapon, and 175 BST, or better yet 176 with a super boon allowing to reach 180, and he would make a fortune from whales.  

Compared to other gacha, yes Heroes has a brand to protect.  It wants to grow the name of Fire Emblem, and not upset its fans.  Many people playing Heroes have never played another gacha, they are playing cause they love Fire Emblem.  

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22 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

For Robin.  Firstly they should have called him Grima.    The main art should have been of Grima or at the very least a huge part of the background, and all the attack animations should feature him not Robin.  For people who aren't familiar with Awakening it looks like an evil Robin that summons a pet dragon to fight for him.

You mean Grima isn't an evil Robin that summons a pet dragon to fight for them?

I wouldn't mind having all the current lords as future legendary heroes eventually. At some point. I just hope they don't recycle Hector so soon as a legendary lord. He's gotten a Valentine's alt (wielding a green axe) and has a CYL version coming up later. A third legendary Hector who happens to be green like the first two would be overkill this year.

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31 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

I'd obviously much prefer Lewyn.  Ced would fit with Thracia more.  Medeus would be awesome though I don't know if they would do two legendary dragons in a row.  

For Robin.  Firstly they should have called him Grima.    The main art should have been of Grima or at the very least a huge part of the background, and all the attack animations should feature him not Robin.  For people who aren't familiar with Awakening it looks like an evil Robin that summons a pet dragon to fight for him.  

I definitely agree on the name thing, but for the rest I really can't. The thing is, all of that is exactly how Grima looked and acted in Awakening. You're basically saying they should be inaccurate to the source material to satisfy some arbitrary criteria for what determines an alt.

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Hmmm... for a while, I figured Hector would most likely be our next legendary green hero, but now that I think about it, I'm suspecting it'll be Veronica

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On 3/31/2018 at 6:08 PM, bottlegnomes said:

I definitely agree on the name thing, but for the rest I really can't. The thing is, all of that is exactly how Grima looked and acted in Awakening. You're basically saying they should be inaccurate to the source material to satisfy some arbitrary criteria for what determines an alt.

Well as I said earlier, I'd rather not have Grima for the very reason.  I would rather not have any character that uses the likeness of an existing character, or possessed or whatever.  That is why I was suggesting Medeus and others, etc.  

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Athos
Mila
Possessed Lyon

I don't like how normal heroes are getting legendaries - even if they're the main lords.  I think legendary banners are the perfect opportunity for heroes we wouldn't normally see like the ones I just listed.

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14 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Athos
Mila
Possessed Lyon

I don't like how normal heroes are getting legendaries - even if they're the main lords.  I think legendary banners are the perfect opportunity for heroes we wouldn't normally see like the ones I just listed.

That's exactly how I feel.  Those mythological, historic heroes, or OP nonplayable characters.  In a game like Heroes you can actually put them in, it would be so cool to play as Altina or Naga for example.  

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On 3/31/2018 at 3:03 AM, DraceEmpressa said:

but they are compensating for it with the bloated 5* pool.

No, they're not.

The only time it is reasonable to pull specifically for a 5-star character is when they are on a banner.

The probability of pulling a single character out of the standard 5-star pool is so small that you have to be an idiot to try to specifically pull for one.

During Blazing Shadows, the probability of pulling Hector from a green orb at base rates was 1 in 287. In World of Dawn, it had dropped 1 in 586. While that seems like a steep drop, you have to remember just how much time it takes to pull 300 times on a free-to-play account. Currently, there are approximately 300 free orbs per month. Even assuming every summon session contains 5 green orbs for a total of 5 pulls every 20 orbs, that's only 75 pulls per month or an average of 4 months for each Hector using Blazing Shadows's less diluted pool.

Compare that to when Hector is on a banner. The probability of pulling a green focus character typically sits at around 1 in 25. If you pool just that month's 300 free orbs into that banner, you'll average about 3 Hectors on each banner.

Over the game's 14 months live, Hector has been on a banner 5 times. This means that if you spent 300 free orbs on each of those banners, you'll have an average of 15 Hectors with 9 months' worth of free orbs left over to spare. However, if you somehow managed to spend all 14 months' worth of free orbs on Blazing Shadows, you'd average fewer than 4 Hectors with no months' worth of free orbs left over. If you do the math, pulling for Hector on-banner is more than 10 times more efficient than pulling for Hector off-banner with the summoning pool at launch.

There is zero point trying to undilute the 5-star summoning pool because there is zero point ever trying to pull for a specific character from it.

 

On 3/31/2018 at 5:34 PM, Lewyn said:

176 with a super boon allowing to reach 180

That's not how it works. 176 with a "super boon" is 177. 177 is in the same score tier as 175.

There's also the problem with the current landscape. When Zelgius was released, he was the only candidate for a top-scoring red armor, and he still is. Releasing your hypothetical armored Boyd in a landscape where Valentine Hector and Grima already exist doesn't push the score up by a significant margin, and will likely draw less attention than Zelgius did because no whale needs him to stay competitive (just the few who need the e-peen boost of placing first every week).

If the developers don't go blatantly harpooning for whales by implementing even more stat boosts, which is certain to give them a bad rep, the whale landscape is probably going to remain stagnant for quite some time with players pulling mostly for their favorites or for new characters with noticeably improved combat performance.

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32 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Possessed Lyon

Yes, please!!

Assuming we never get actual Legends, I'd like to see Eirika, Micaiah, Hector or Eliwood get Legendaries. If we DO get actual Legendaries I think it'd be neat if IS threw a curveball and gave us one we've never actually seen before, like the rest of Elibe's Eight Legends or Nada Kuya (it'd be both hilarious and neat if she was just an old-fashioned Eirika :P)

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1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

Well as I said earlier, I'd rather not have Grima for the very reason.  I would rather not have any character that uses the likeness of an existing character, or possessed or whatever.  That is why I was suggesting Medeus and others, etc.  

So they shouldn't add Ares until every other character is added because he looks identical to Eldigan? I'm being intentionally absurd, but the point I'm getting at is not adding Grima because he meets some, frankly arbitrary, criteria for what you consider an alt seems incredibly petty. You're essentially saying no one who likes Grima should get to play as him until every other character has been exhausted. You can't even say an existing character can satisfy fans, like my Zeke/Camus thing earlier, because Grima is a distinct entity with his own lore, personality, characterization, and history.

As a side note, I'm using he/him for Grima because I'm talking about the first introduction of the character, i.e. Male!Robin Grima.

Edited by bottlegnomes
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1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

Well as I said earlier, I'd rather not have Grima for the very reason.  I would rather not have any character that uses the likeness of an existing character, or possessed or whatever.  That is why I was suggesting Medeus and others, etc.  

And would you object if we get Earth Dragon Medeus, and then, a few months down the line, we get Dark Dragon Medeus who is the same character, but unlike Grima looks completely different?

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Speaking of Gimle, I could see them rehashing the Fell Dragon as The Creation from SoV eventually. A third Grima, but only the second in a sense since the only reason we have two copies of the scaley who coulda shoulda barrel rolled in FE13 is because Robin has a customizable sex and they wanted to be fair to both of them.

 

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

And would you object if we get Earth Dragon Medeus, and then, a few months down the line, we get Dark Dragon Medeus who is the same character, but unlike Grima looks completely different?

I'd approve of this, and so I would accept double Ashnards, and Sephiran and Lehran (one can take the Creiddylad, the other the Ashera Staff). And while I could see it happening, I would not want double Julius- one the one we know and is possessed, the other the innocent Loptyr-free child he once was. A second Arvis is perfectly fine. And I'll take Master Knight Leif eventually too- but how to reference him being able to use every weapon under the sun? Triangle Master- always grants WTA vs. Reds, Blues and Greens?

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36 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Speaking of Gimle, I could see them rehashing the Fell Dragon as The Creation from SoV eventually. A third Grima, but only the second in a sense since the only reason we have two copies of the scaley who coulda shoulda barrel rolled in FE13 is because Robin has a customizable sex and they wanted to be fair to both of them.

 

I'd approve of this, and so I would accept double Ashnards, and Sephiran and Lehran (one can take the Creiddylad, the other the Ashera Staff). And while I could see it happening, I would not want double Julius- one the one we know and is possessed, the other the innocent Loptyr-free child he once was. A second Arvis is perfectly fine. And I'll take Master Knight Leif eventually too- but how to reference him being able to use every weapon under the sun? Triangle Master- always grants WTA vs. Reds, Blues and Greens?

Actually, Arvis is a good point. Would anyone actually object to emperor Arvis being added despite him being a 100% alt? I've only ever seen support for the idea.

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7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Speaking of Gimle, I could see them rehashing the Fell Dragon as The Creation from SoV eventually. A third Grima, but only the second in a sense since the only reason we have two copies of the scaley who coulda shoulda barrel rolled in FE13 is because Robin has a customizable sex and they wanted to be fair to both of them.

 

I'd approve of this, and so I would accept double Ashnards, and Sephiran and Lehran (one can take the Creiddylad, the other the Ashera Staff). And while I could see it happening, I would not want double Julius- one the one we know and is possessed, the other the innocent Loptyr-free child he once was. A second Arvis is perfectly fine. And I'll take Master Knight Leif eventually too- but how to reference him being able to use every weapon under the sun? Triangle Master- always grants WTA vs. Reds, Blues and Greens?

Leif would have to be really flimsy for weapon triangle advantage against everything to work. Honestly, I'd actually love if characters weren't restricted to a single weapno type, like in the main series. It wouldn't really be that big a change to the meta game, since most characters would mainly be using the endless amount of PRF weapons anyway.

Edited by Jotari
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I hope the next legendary hero for April is Marth, fire emblems anniversary is coming up soon, and it would be nice to celebrate it with the legendary king marth. have him be fire elemental to stick with the name fire emblem XP

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On 4/1/2018 at 2:46 AM, Johann said:

Hmmm... for a while, I figured Hector would most likely be our next legendary green hero, but now that I think about it, I'm suspecting it'll be Veronica

What could she possibly be a legendary hero of though?

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9 hours ago, Midnox said:

What could she possibly be a legendary hero of though?

Element wise? Who knows, I mean she's an original character, so there's nothing but room to expand.

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27 minutes ago, Johann said:

Element wise? Who knows, I mean she's an original character, so there's nothing but room to expand.

Well that's a good point. That's why I'm specially desperate for her brave version. But for that reason, I kinda doubt she's going to be a legendary hero, not yet at least. I think that fits better for her brother: Bruno, as his tome is ice. He should be reworked a little but however, as I think he's kinda behind the meta in his current state 

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1 hour ago, Midnox said:

Well that's a good point. That's why I'm specially desperate for her brave version. But for that reason, I kinda doubt she's going to be a legendary hero, not yet at least. I think that fits better for her brother: Bruno, as his tome is ice. He should be reworked a little but however, as I think he's kinda behind the meta in his current state 

I suppose we'll know in a few more weeks, though it's worth noting that apparently Elivagar (Veronica's tome) is an ice/water thing based on some rivers in Norse mythology. Also while both have tomes that are a bit behind in terms of power, there's nothing stopping them from making enhanced versions (like with Blazing Durandal, etc) for when they're playable.

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On 4/2/2018 at 6:47 PM, Ice Dragon said:

 

That's not how it works. 176 with a "super boon" is 177. 177 is in the same score tier as 175.

There's also the problem with the current landscape. When Zelgius was released, he was the only candidate for a top-scoring red armor, and he still is. Releasing your hypothetical armored Boyd in a landscape where Valentine Hector and Grima already exist doesn't push the score up by a significant margin, and will likely draw less attention than Zelgius did because no whale needs him to stay competitive (just the few who need the e-peen boost of placing first every week).

If the developers don't go blatantly harpooning for whales by implementing even more stat boosts, which is certain to give them a bad rep, the whale landscape is probably going to remain stagnant for quite some time with players pulling mostly for their favorites or for new characters with noticeably improved combat performance.

True my bad.  You can get +1/-1 BST depending on superboon or superbane.  Yeah BST power creep definitely draws a lot of criticism, as it should.  There are some things like Mia and Athena which are really offputting.  

 

On 4/2/2018 at 7:10 PM, bottlegnomes said:

So they shouldn't add Ares until every other character is added because he looks identical to Eldigan? I'm being intentionally absurd, but the point I'm getting at is not adding Grima because he meets some, frankly arbitrary, criteria for what you consider an alt seems incredibly petty. You're essentially saying no one who likes Grima should get to play as him until every other character has been exhausted. You can't even say an existing character can satisfy fans, like my Zeke/Camus thing earlier, because Grima is a distinct entity with his own lore, personality, characterization, and history.

As a side note, I'm using he/him for Grima because I'm talking about the first introduction of the character, i.e. Male!Robin Grima.

Yes I am saying exactly that.  Hence my comment on why I wouldn't even want Lewyn possessed by Foreseti even if Lewyn himself is in.  They could make his Forseti version a flying dragon with a unique PRF breath and it still would be offensive.  Also Grima's lore and history is pretty weak except for what was offered in Echoes.  Cool final boss, but just saying.  

Emperor Arvis, Dark Medeus, etc.  Those are some of the more interesting alts, since they are canon and are very different.  However even then those can come in seasonal banners, or wait til the rest of the heroes make their first appearance.  I think I've made my opinion fairly clear, and there are no exceptions.  

 

 

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@Lewyn Wait, are you saying yes you're saying that to leaving Ares out because he looks like Eldigan? Or are you saying that yes no one who likes Grima should get to play as him until everyone else is in?

Edited by bottlegnomes
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2 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

@Lewyn Wait, are you saying yes you're saying that to leaving Ares out because he looks like Eldigan? Or are you saying that yes no one who likes Grima should get to play as him until everyone else is in?

Well Ares is an actually different physical body even if similar looking.  He'd be a terrible addition since he is essentially an Eldigan clone, but he wouldn't be an alt. To the 2nd question, my answer is yes.  

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