Etrian Odyssey 3 Mafia - Game Over

[Athena_57]

4 minutes ago, Prims said:

Athena seems to like to prod people to post which is an easy way to look like you're doing more than you actually are. This might just be an antsy new person thing though so FWIW people will usually get around to posting in the thread when they get the time; if it's not urgent / something you specifically want them to respond to making prods like this is pretty pointless.

It's more of a formatting thing than a serious prod really. It makes it clear who I'm addressing with my question and takes their attention in case they're just skimming the thread. So a heads up to everyone I guess, if I prod you, I don't really need your attention ASAP, I just want that particular question answered at some point.

If it bothers people I'll stop of course, just let me now in that case.

[Athena_57]

Oh wait, I just checked the links, you meant the long time no posters prodding, that's fair I guess, I'll stop that.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Prims, notable reads/suspicions? I didn't like Clarinets' catchup post because it largely offered an SB scumread due to his roleplaying, which is just a nulltell. Other than that, I have like 2 or 3 townreads that I don't feel help town to share at the moment. Beyond that, my pockets are empty.

As for a background presence, well, keep in mind that last game I rolled D1/N1 doc and was thus trying to draw a kill, and there were FAR more tells to work with than in this one. As for direct interaction with Boron/Marth, it's way easier and probably more reliable to just try to get other peoples' opinions who have played with them more than I have and throw my vote around between them than spend excessive time asking a bunch of questions. I actually don't have any questions for them and would rather watch what they do of their own volition; that serves to garner more accurate reads than leading people generally IMO. It's not my style in this scenario.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

23 minutes ago, Omega. said:

Weapons, I thought both Marth and Boron had decent reasons to scumread the other and like I said, part of it is sense of smell, though that could easily be wrong. I remember in my last game saying Prims/Arcanite was TvS throughout much of it with much less effort to extrapolate on my part, so don't get what you're trying to dig at here, though I don't find you scummy for it.

SB, I'm all for keeping one's cards close to their chest, but I'm wondering if Shinori is among your town reads.

Also, that Omega guy is whack for signing up, taking my name, then logging out then literally never posting again.

I'm asking because I don't think I've ever read a 1v1 as TvS without an inclination as to who is town and who is scum and want to either figure out valid reasons for doing so, or debunk it as not the best scumhunting technique. I'm also asking because I disagree and want to see if I can change your opinion, but maybe that approach was a bit roundabout. Finally, it's probably the general context of this game that I noticed it now as opposed to last game.

[Sunwoo]

Prims: I'm leaning null-scum on Clarinets. Upon first glance, their content didn't seem offensive, but their only real suspicion would be SB. Doesn't really seem to suspect you, and dismissed the one thing they didn't like about Eury as not warranting any suspicion. I'm not super big on how their vote is phrased because it sounds like he had more of a problem with the RP than SB's actual actions, but I can at least understand what he doesn't like about him?

Would like to hear if Omega has any thoughts besides Marth vs. me, and not liking Clarinets's catchup post. It's fine if you suspect one of us has to be scum, but focusing on just that to the exclusion of pretty much everything else isn't great. What do you think about Marth and my interactions with other people who are not each other, for one? If you think one of us is scum, are you looking at those as well?

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

8 minutes ago, Omega. said:

As for a background presence, well...

Oh, the things I said, plus I got wagoned D1 in that game which drew me into it more.

Weapons, I was first inclined to think Boron was scum. Then I considered that she was just getting frustrated in a towny kind of way with Marth but primarily, she seemed "loose" with her play in that she just responded to whatever she wanted without really caring what town was doing. When I say "care", I mean she didn't act in a way that would "fit in" with the general direction that town was going, as in, lacking an agenda, and that's usually more from town than scum. So I voted Marth. I don't know what you're saying with regards to figuring out valid reasons or debunking. As for changing my opinion, it's not changing right now, but it's open to changing depending on what happens as the game continues, likely based on what Boron or Marth themselves do.

Boron, I think my focus is fine. I play to lynch scum, and thus am focusing on the interaction I think is likeliest to produce that. From memory, you suspect Shinori who is a null for me. Marth I remember mentioning a suspicion of Bartozio, who I have as slight town. I don't get that much from either of those interactions due to my lack of a strong read on Shinori and Bart.

[Grace]

Votals 1.2

Clarinets (3): Shinori, Weapons, Athena
Omega (2): Kokichi, Prims
Bluedoom (2): Sunwoo, Omega
Sunwoo (1): Bluedoom
Shinori (1): Eury 
Eury (1): Bartozio
Kokichi (1): Clarinets
Not Voting (1): Vi-astra

With 12 alive, it takes 4 to lynch at deadline, 8 to hammer. There are approximately 24 hours and 17 minutes left in the phase.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Grace

[Clarinets]

I don't really agree with my thoughts on SB anymore. I did have a problem with the roleplaying, but because I thought it was being used as an excuse to be vague. After a reread it seems like that problem was only in SB's early D1 posts, where there wasn't a lot to talk about anyways, while his later posts are better.

##Unvote

I'm going to go to bed tomorrow. I should be available all day tomorrow, and I'll try to be relatively active.

[Clarinets]

*I'm going to bed now, not tomorrow.

[Eurykins]

Just got home from work, ugh. Closing shifts suck, especially when paired with 7am mandatory meeting this morning. =___=

@Magnificence Incarnate Whether it was a point in her favor or not wasn't the issue, but moreso opening up the possibility that she posted on the first thing noted, without reading the entirety of Page 2 beforehand. I asked those questions to see how much your PoV/thoughts on her voting process would've changed had her target been Clarinets instead of yourself.

@Bartozio I have a few questions regarding the vote post:

1. The concept of Clarinets having played off the pretty bad fake claim was part of the "Not doing anything during ED1/coming out of RVS stage", which showed a lack of scum-hunting and a lack of active productive gameplay. This was just one out of the many lazy/empty posts that occurred during post RVS, and something that was just unnecessary/filler at most.

> How does this conflict with the fact that I found Marth's reaction, when he was inclined to entertain any truth/possibility to said claim due to the host's past games? I found his reaction odd because it seemed unnatural to assume that such an information role like that would exist in a Mafia game (especially a small one like this) with little to no reasonable reason outside of the creator's habit for crazy games? Unless I had stated that I BELIEVED or not accepted Clarinet's claim as being truly false for any reason (which would make my notion against Marth hypocritical had I done so), I fail to see where the issue lies.

2. Vote swap didn't happen because I wanted questions answered from most people I had on the list (Including Marth, Shinori, Boron, and anyone else I mentioned), and outside of Clarinets I had no real strong scummish reads elsewhere. Also the initial vote on Shinori was purely RVS, but I still wanted answers from him as well. So there was no real point in me moving my vote when it's sitting on someone I wanted to hear from. 

@Clarinets If you believe that Town have good reason to find your actions suspicious, was there an underlying reason why you chose to stir up the game with questionable gameplay? 

@Shinori What do you mean by "scum that doesn't want to play scum"? 

@Sunwoo Despite my questions regarding his vote, I could understand his interest in sheeping Prim's case on Clarinets, as I also agreed with Prim's case/vote on the slot. Shinori was also actually conversing ED1 as opposed to just posting nonsensical joke/empty posts/votes without really doing anything as a whole. Overall contribution was better than the Clarinets slot.

Nomming on foods and digging through page 6 currently (will be working on another post with a vote following full thoughts). These new forums makes me die trying to make wall posts so trying to utilize these @ stuffs to kinda work around the quote blocks.

[Prims]

Man I just realized deadline is in like a little over 12 hours. Omega's response to me is fair, fair enough that if I somehow forget to check Mafia before deadline I don't want him to be a potential D1 lynch because of my vote. (I should be around for deadline though.)

##Unvote
##Vote: Clarinets to lay on the pressure for when he gets back.

Slow game. Prefer end-of-day wagons to head toward Clarinets/Eury/Marth atm.

 

[Shinori]

Got wrapped up playing games and relaxing most of the day outside of the small posts from when I was here earlier.  Bigger post will come when I wake up but for now to answer a few of the other things that @Sunwoo asked.

1: I don't like Clarinet's post on page 4 and the recent posts by them aren't that great either.  Still fine with leaving my vote here. I don't feel they are actively aiming to hunt scum but are actively aiming to make 'cases' if that makes sense.

2: Not a fan of Bartozio's posts on page 4. I don't really like the initial reasoning that seems to be posted for the Eury vote which harps on what I feel is weird wording regarding clarinets stuff.  However he does ask a few good questions towards Eury as she was still sitting her vote on me at the time.  And she still has it on me at the moment as well.

 

 @Eurykins Am I your top scum read at the moment?  If so why?  Who are you're other scum reads?

Also in response to Eury:  Scum that doesn't want to play scum = Someone who wanted to play mafia, rolled scum, lost interest in the game.  Clarinet's play is giving off that type of vibe to me.

I think at the moment I'm sitting at:

Clarinets > Bartozio

After that it's mostly null reads or town reads but I do have some problems with the following people:

@WeaponsofMassConstruction I feel like has not been as prevalant as he was near the start of the day, also feel like most of his posts aren't contributing that much.  Since his start of the day pinged me this is giving me bad vibes.  I'll reread over the thread some when I wake up to make sure I'm not just skimming over stuff.  This post stands out to me as bad though:

Quote

 

I would agree that Marty v Boron is town v town and at least not worth pursuing atm. Each of their logics under heat checks out and makes sense to me. I’m fine keeping my vote on Clarinets for now; their return post is ok, but it feels like it was designed to get votes off of them rather than to hunt for scum. Their reason for voting SB is not very strong and otherwise it seems Clarinets hasn’t tapped into the flow of the game. I’m interested to see if this continues.

Otherwise, I’m townreading everyone but Prims/Eury/Shinori to some degree, but they were all scum last game, and I’m like, no...

 

He then follows up when I asked about this stating that me, eury and Prims are mainly null and not even scum reads.  Realistically would probably put Weapons after Bartozio as a lynch candidate at the moment.

Last but not least I'm iffy on @Kokichi Omaposts.  I felt his Omega vote was kind of weak and piggy backing off of Prim's reasonings.  Here it is:

Quote

I still don't have strong suspicions. I think Clarinets looks slightly worse because I could totes see their vote on me as squirming under pressure but at the same time, it's kinda hard to blame them, y'know? This game is a pretty awkward one.

I do think their Via's post sounded less scared/overly cautious and like their super duper townie self. Maybe not with the super duper bit, but still.

##Unvote
##Vote: Omega

I think that spending the posts before his vote examining the Boron (Sunwoo) side of the coin is kinda weird, if Marth was going to be his vote in the end. Obviously town!Omega wouldn't know what his vote would be beforehand, but the lack of progression is kinda weird.

The first line is a weird waffle on Clarinets that I think looks bad followed by a read on Via that I'm not quite positive I understand from him.  The last line WRT his vote on Omega is iffy I think.  But I might just not understand it fully so that could be my problem.  This is definitely still more of a null read for me but gut doesn't like this post so I'm stating my dislike of it.

Overall:

Clarinets > Bartozio >>> Weapons >>>>>>> Kokichi(Closer to Null than scum)

People should hop on this Clarinets wagon.  FULL STEAM AHEAD!

[Percivalé]

jesus christ i didn't realize deadline was so soon. (sorry that i've been kind of lazy. healthwise i've been a little meh.)
I'm re-reading the thread in order. 

##Vote: Eurykins

I think out of the current wagons I would prefer Eury the most.

I don't remember who handwaved Athena as being town for being new but please don't do that. Athena is definitely actively scumhunting but they've also played variations of mafia before so I don't think determining them as town/scum is as black and white as "if he were scum he'd probably be a lot more obvious cuz he's new." that being said I'm not scumreading him right now but I wanted to mention this anyway.

@Kokichi Oma I should have mentioned I wasn't scumreading you after I made the comment & you'd posted more, but I hadn't had time & I have a habit of not mentioning my townreads unless it's relevant at the time (they're a lynch priority and I don't want them to be, for example). I guess I've been kind of inconsistent about this but it's my default state of mind usually lol.
(also I like the RP, and I love seeing how much fun you're having with it, but try not to make what could be interpreted as passes at my intelligence, even jokingly, if that's all right with you. it's a sensitive spot.)

Marth I mentioned how I framed his question a little differently and it seemed odd in my head for scum to do & since then I have surprisingly read him as town more than I have ever read Marth town in a game. Can't put my finger on it, will attempt to explain later if I have to. Omega half-coaching Clarinets in the thread rubbed me the wrong way (not because I think they're buddies lol because obviously if Omega wanted to coach his buddy they'd have a scumchat to do that) but it came off making empty content for the sake of it & attempting to look helpful by guiding the newbie, which I can see scum doing. 

Here's why I voted Eury. One I get the vibe she's playing to her scum meta (sorry!!!!!!!! but that's not the only reason don't worry). Second her initial vote of Clarinets was weird because the post in which she voted her in had oodles of fucking words and then it concluded at "Clarinets is the most distracting slot." Not the most scummy. Word choice but it read like she wasn't entirely convinced of her own read on her. (also I thought her throwaway comment about Weapons was weird--"I thought his town posts were weird too but I don't know his meta." reads like filler. also very eury meta because she does that as scum I noticed.) I can't tell what her reads are; she's been asking a ton of questions and just throwing out a ton of "hey <player> can I get your current reads?" without providing much of that of her own. 

Quote

This feels weird to me, because she blames Clarinet for playing a fake claim off as a joke, but also blames Marth for taking it seriously? 

(quote via Bartozio) this is also what I was thinking. I'm getting an inconsistent feel from the way she's playing.

I read her latest post and it's still just her responding to people and sticking to her Clarinets read & claiming it's because she "posted a bunch of filler/empty posts" even though that seems kind of like an exaggeration. she seems to be making another post though so I'll see where that goes, but right now I feel best about this lynch.

[Percivalé]

as for omega I dunno how I feel about him, clarinets I also need to read better when I'm not hopped up on medication. I'm townreading Marth & everyone else is either null or town. I don't think it's worth it listing off who else I'm reading town right now this early

[Percivalé]

as always i'll consolidate on clarinets if i have to but i would rather lynch eury over clarinets today

[Shinori]

At the time of your vote @Vi-astra Eury only had 1 vote: Why is she considered "One of the wagons."?  I'm definitely not reading her as town at the moment but I don't personally think she's scum at the moment.  I feel her play this game is also different from her most recent game, but not necessarily in a good way because of her randomly sitting with her vote on me which is weird.

[Percivalé]

2 minutes ago, Shinori said:

At the time of your vote @Vi-astra Eury only had 1 vote: Why is she considered "One of the wagons."?  I'm definitely not reading her as town at the moment but I don't personally think she's scum at the moment.  I feel her play this game is also different from her most recent game, but not necessarily in a good way because of her randomly sitting with her vote on me which is weird.

I didn't check the votals cuz I'm a dumbass on a seroquel high, I had the impression eury/clarinets/marth were the wagons today whoops.

[Percivalé]

shinori your post is weird cuz you literally just said "I don't think she's town but I don't think she's scum; her play is different this game but not in a good way." so... where does that put your read on her lol? null?

[Athena_57]

The only thing that bothers me about Eury is that she still hasn't really given opinions on people and has instead continued to ask questions and defended herself against Bartozio. However, she claimed another post was coming soon-ish, so I'm going to wait and see what that post brings.

Bartozio... His opening was meh, his case on Eury I agree with less the more I think about it. Apart from that, he hasn't posted much I think? I'm starting to not like this slot.

But yeah, for now I'm definitely staying on the Clarinets wagon. The only thing that last post did was back off from the ill-received "attack" on SB, which further supports the notion that all he does is try to get votes off of himself.

[Eurykins]

I am not feeling well and will attempt to post when I can tomorrow morning after I attempt to get some sleep.

##Unvote

##Vote: Clarinets

Depending on how long I remain dead to the world IRL, I may not be back in time for phase end. Putting my vote where my initial top read has stood (and during my attempts to re-read I didn't see much to rectify or remedy it much at all), so I am still fine supporting the wagon. 

And cut by the fuckin' Shinori.

@Shinori No, I'm not really scum reading you currently. I didn't disagree with the votes on Clarinets, albeit an easy sheeping of Prim's case. 

Regarding secondary scum reads (as Clarinets still sits at the top), I'm not altogether sure tbh.

While I found Bartozio's vote on me kinda weird/questionable casing, I am not sure if it's scum/town indicative or not. Could've resulted as a simple misunderstanding of what I had said/posted, or in worst case scenario it was a means of misrepping/mudslinging of sorts- unsure of the interest/intent of what it was meant to do. 

Marth has felt off with his reactions in general- seeming oddly long-winded with some of his justifications and sometimes those in themselves seem pretty far-fetched or stretched. At times his self-justifications of votes/cases seemed forced and almost artificial, which is what's partially bothering me as well.

Weapons... I legit have little memory wrt his actual posts so far this game. He hasn't been a prominent player in my memory thus far, and it sort of bothers me (which is probably why I forgot to ask/send questions his way when I was doing other posts). 

Omega's overall tone/posting style feels remarkably like the last game I participated in, so I have no issues currently as far as my brain can remember atm.

Kokichi (who I failed to realize is SB, wtf) has partially been turning me off in reading his posts because of the RPing style, if I were to be completely honest. Maybe it's being as effective as my wallposts are in deterring people from reading them, but outside of the guarded ED1 claim, I can't really say I retained much read/interest in this slot. 

So my priorities would probably look like Clarinets >>> Marth >> Bartozio??? (In the event that he intended to mudsling, but I'm having trouble feeling the vibe personally.) Everyone else is kinda off my radar priority currently.

Cut by Via, holy hell the ninjas are real.

@Vi-astra 

6 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

Second her initial vote of Clarinets was weird because the post in which she voted her in had oodles of fucking words and then it concluded at "Clarinets is the most distracting slot." Not the most scummy. Word choice but it read like she wasn't entirely convinced of her own read on her.

Please actually quote a post in which I voted Clarinets. Because I'm pretty sure I never voted Clarinets. In fact I should still be sitting on the Shinori RVS-esque vote.

Also, when a player slot is basically splashing water everywhere and not actually doing anything, it's fucking distracting as fuck. Townside has done it before, as have scum. Am I certain that it's scum? No. But at the same time it was the most offending slot to me, and the most distracting. To me, inactives and people who constantly do things seemingly antagonistic to the town-side drive of the game (Actively scum hunting and providing actual content) are the biggest obstacles, second only to the actual opposing anti-town team(s). So, in a nutshell, no, I do not have a 100% definitive scum read on this slot. But it reads terrible in terms of not being townie in any sense of the word, and it was performing in an anti-town manner that really does us no good, so it was the closest thing to a hard scum read on any slot that I had at that moment. 

12 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

I read her latest post and it's still just her responding to people and sticking to her Clarinets read & claiming it's because she "posted a bunch of filler/empty posts" even though that seems kind of like an exaggeration. she seems to be making another post though so I'll see where that goes, but right now I feel best about this lynch.

As of right now, Clarinets has 7 Total posts.

Only one has had any sort of reads/comments, and that was the post with her Kokichi vote. Also, it should be noted that, in this post, the only real "scum read" was made on SB, and that was purely based on his RP'ing and vagueness. Everyone else was basically labeled as town or null in the post, which, in the scum-hunting aspect, really doesn't do us much good either?

Every other post has basically been an empty post. How is my notion then an exaggeration, when it is exactly what is happening in that slot's ISO?

[Shinori]

9 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

shinori your post is weird cuz you literally just said "I don't think she's town but I don't think she's scum; her play is different this game but not in a good way." so... where does that put your read on her lol? null?

Null.  I'm not town reading her but she's very null for me, part of that may be because I have multiple other scum reads at the moment that are worse but I also don't agree with the arguments against her except for the one thing I talked about in my last big post.

[Shinori]

Clarinets is at 6 votes with Eury and Prims votes added to the previous 4.  Following that is Marth and Eury both at 2 votes.

That's L-2 so I'm doing this to avoid an early hammer.  I still am all for a Clarinets lynch.

##Unvote:

[Percivalé]

eury you literally stated in your post you'd vote clarinets if it weren't for the wagon being big enough already. are you saying that doesn't count? cuz that's kinda scummy.

quote for reference:

Quote

Clarinets is the most distracting slot currently, and I would be fine voting if not for the immense wagon pressure currently. I have no idea what the votals are currently, but read at least 4-5 votes scanning quickly over page 2-3. Not going to put anyone at the threat of an early hammer this early in the day phase, but I am okay and supportive of the wagon currently. 

yeah you didn't literally vote clarinets, that's semantics. but you just voted clarinets now so it's like you're using those technicalities as an excuse to escape from that.

[Bluedoom]

I'm going to get posts in. Spent to much time on the EIMM game, sorry.

[Percivalé]

yeah this slot is scum