Etrian Odyssey 3 Mafia - Game Over

[Bluedoom]

@Sunwoo I'm not buying you suspecting me with your initial vote simply because you framed it like a question which looks awkward because it is very open ended. I also don't get why you think my vote on Bartozio is scummy, am I not allowed to push what I think is odd? I also feel like you definitely could have said something about clarinets back then rather than now since there was a good hour gap between my Bart vote and your vote on me, when a bit of discussion was happening.

 

@Eurykins I think the timing of her vote is bad,not the interaction with Weapons/Prims which I don't think is alignment indicative anyway. As for why me over clarinets, I don't think that is a good question because there are a few arguments. Like it is easier to pose a question and vote me while backing off after my response than it is to do that with clarinets because he has lesser experience than me and struggles to argue his way out of situations, had she done that she would've got flak from other people later. OR she could've just ignored the whole clarinets thing and vote me on impulse, I don't think what you're saying is a point in her favour. There also didn't seem to be an atmosphere in the thread at that point in time that pointed towards voting clarinets so we can't say that scum!Boron would've thought of voting Clarinets as an easy vote. That being said I find it odd that Boron expects me to explain my vote more over whatever I can see from one page in the game but uses the game being 2 pages long as a reason for not having much thought.

[SB.]

##Unvote

Marth is probably town off of his later posting. That actually goes for a lot of people, actually. This game is easy. Actually, that's a lie! Finding strong suspects is way too hard. I'm indifferent to Clarinets and think the wagon is too dull to really entertain joining.

##Vote: Via

For funsies? But really their comment about me possibly being scum trying to bait a doc without giving an opinion on me later is kind of rubbing me the wrong way. 

[Sunwoo]

My vote being on you should be clear enough that I suspect you, regardless of whether it's framed as a question or not. I was going to add more to it, but had too much of a headache to make it sound coherent. You're allowed to push what you think it's odd, but I'm allowed to suspect you with a question as well so this is a stupid statement. Also, please get it through your head: I DID NOT THINK WHAT WAS GOING ON WAS WORTHY OF DISCUSSING. I literally got prodded to post because I didn't realize the game had started, did a quick read, and decided that neither the Weapons nor Clarinet debacle seemed noteworthy at the time. I'm not going to say "I don't think much about this thing going on" if I don't want to.

Also, I don't expect you to give me a fucking essay on your vote on Bartozio. Just literally anything more descriptive besides "it feels like something scum would make". I can't read your mind as to why you think the vote is scummy, as I don't see it myself. You said, "I can't put my finger as to why", which is fine for an early game read, but could also be used to vote someone using ~vibes~ without explaining why. So I'm not exactly thrilled with your reaction.

Eury: I think Shinori's vote-switch to Clarinets is suspicious, considering he didn't say whether he was fine with his previous votes/suspects or why he thinks Clarinets is worse than they are. Clarinets being flakey is sort of non-alignment, but considering that he actually gave some game-related content before disappearing in his previous town game, I'm leaning more scummy on his not participating at least. And anything else will have to come after I sleep.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

@Sunwoo, why are you against the Clarinets wagon? I'll admit that I'm not particularly scumreading the slot, mainly because there's simply not very much information to work with there, but it's worth doing anyway to get more activity out of him. It's early D1, yes the wagon is easy, but we need to wagon someone, and who else should it be? If you'd go for Marth, what do you think of others not wanting to vote him anymore/in the first place? Would you support a wagon on another player?

@Eurykins, why don't I get any questions

[Grace]

Votals 1.1

Clarinets (4): Prims, Shinori, Weapons, Athena
Sunwoo (2): Bluedoom, Omega
Weapons (2): Bartozio, Clarinets
Bluedoom (1):  Sunwoo 
Shinori (1): Eury 
Vi-astra (1): Kokichi
Not voting (1): Vi-astra

With 12 alive, it takes 4 to lynch at deadline, 8 to hammer. There are approximately 36 hours and 16 minutes left in the phase.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Grace
fix'd a mess up, my b

[Athena_57]

1 hour ago, Grace said:

Votals 1.1

Clarinets (4): Prims, Shinori, Weapons, Athena
Sunwoo (2): Bluedoom, Omega
Weapons (2): Bartozio, Clarinets
Bluedoom (2): Vi-astra, Sunwoo 
Shinori (1): Eury 
Vi-astra (1): Kokichi

With 12 alive, it takes 4 to lynch at deadline, 8 to hammer. There are approximately 36 hours and 16 minutes left in the phase.

Wait, didn't Via unvote?

[Athena_57]

@Bartozio Haven't heard from you in a while (or at all actually, apart from the RVS vote), thoughts on the Clarinets wagon and the Marth/Sunwoo case?

[Bartozio]

I have to say, there being so few pages makes catching up a lot easier. Anyhow:

I don't really mind Kokichi being vague with regards to his role to be honest. I mean, sure, it could be some big play to draw protects to himself, but the more obvious explanation seems to be that he wanted to inform town about the risk of D2 MYLO, without informing scum about what they could do to counter his abilities, or whether his role is even any good.
Not hard townreading his slot or anything, but this actions doesn't feel that scummy.

Moving on, this whole fight between Marth and Boron feels like town infighting to me. Both made a bad but understandable play (Marth voting me without giving a proper explanation as to why what I did was scummy, and Boron voting Marth without talking about other things that were happening), and both are voting the other for said missplay and being blamed for an understandable missplay. Neither one seems to be using the fight to avoid talking about other people, so I'm not really scumreading either of them.

I don't really mind Clarinets RVS joke (it was a pretty obvious joke imo), but the way they avoided talking about SB's claim and the Marth wagon is giving me bad vibes. Wouldn't have any problem lynching this slot.

For now though:

##Vote: Eury

5 hours ago, Eurykins said:

Clarinets feels like that white noise you hear in the background currently- where is the scumhunting efforts? I get that it was still around ED1, but faking an informed claim, adding a vote with it, and then passing it off as a simple joke is a little excessive for RVS shinanegans. 

 

5 hours ago, Eurykins said:

Marth's reaction to Boron's post feels mildly bad to me. Kinda smelled of OMGUS-esque reaction and the role spec of the obviously faked claim by Clarinets confuses me slightly, with the unrealistic aspect to it- even if part of it is due to the host (whom I have zero personal experience with, as far as I know/remember). 

This feels weird to me, because she blames Clarinet for playing a fake claim off as a joke, but also blames Marth for taking it seriously? I mean, you either

1. Think Clarinets claim is super obviously fake, in which case, what else would it be if not a joke?

or

2. Think it wasn't that obvious and Clarinet was trying to use it to lynch Weapons or something, in which case it's weird you're blaming Marth for taking it seriously.

This doesn't add up for me, and it feels like just trying to push wagons without actually believing the arguments for it.

5 hours ago, Eurykins said:

@Magnificence Incarnate Was the part of not taking much notice towards Prims/Weapons create any sense of association between any of them with Sunwoo? Or was it a matter of easy voting/wagoning? But if there was intent for an easy wagon, why would Clarinets not have been a viable choice as well, when there was probably (and still is) more agreeable cases towards Clarinets than yourself? Is there scum intent from Sunwoo's action, or was the timing just poor in the moment it occurred?

Given the fact that Marth's vote (which is what Sunwoo voted him for) was the 3rd post on Page 2, I do not think that it was unlikely that it was one of the first things that caught Sunwoo's attention while posting.

@Shinori That's an easy sheepy vote on Clarinets. Kinda explained in the latter post, but in what way did Clarinet's post strike you as "bad"? Laziness in not scumhunting? Complacency? Scum intent or not? Also reads on the rest of the players?

Clarinets is the most distracting slot currently, and I would be fine voting if not for the immense wagon pressure currently. I have no idea what the votals are currently, but read at least 4-5 votes scanning quickly over page 2-3. Not going to put anyone at the threat of an early hammer this early in the day phase, but I am okay and supportive of the wagon currently. 

I'm also somewhat suprised you're keeping your vote on Shinori when you seem to suspect Marth more. I know Clarinet is your main scumread, but what is your opinion on other people? Who do you suspect more between Shinori and Marth? For someone so keen on asking other people's opinions, you don't seem to like sharing your own that much.

As things stand, I'd prefer a Clarinet lynch over Eury, but I feel like there's more to be gained with pushing Eury right now. Them being scum buddies also doesn't seem to be far fetched, since bussing Clarinet in this scenario seems like a proper choice, and she's leaving the option open to jump to Marth if Clarinet comes back (who I think was the closest thing to a counter wagon at the time).

[Bartozio]

Uhm...

##Unvote

##Vote: Eury

[Bartozio]

14 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

@Bartozio Haven't heard from you in a while (or at all actually, apart from the RVS vote), thoughts on the Clarinets wagon and the Marth/Sunwoo case?

Haven't really heard your take on the Marth/Boron thing either actually. Can I assume you were just waiting for me to post first?

[Athena_57]

1 minute ago, Bartozio said:

Haven't really heard your take on the Marth/Boron thing either actually. Can I assume you were just waiting for me to post first?

Not necessarily you, just people in general, I'm struggling with developing a proper read on the two of them as though I don't think Marth's explanation is sufficient/good, I can see where he was coming from. In fact, I was getting the same vibes at first, which combined with your inactivity made me doubt you for a while. (I liked your last post though) As for Sunwoo, I think his reactions to Marth could be interpreted as town annoyed by being accused by someone they don't trust, but could also be interpreted as scum trying to get out of the vote.

So basically, I'm not sure about either of them, which is why I was waiting for input from other players.

[Athena_57]

I think your "town-infighting" conclusion is reasonable, but I'm awaiting the continuation of this discussion between them before I'm convinced about it.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

6 hours ago, Eurykins said:

@Omega 1. Combining an RVS vote + actual vote- is that really something that is necessarily done to look "busy", when it was still partially in RVS/leaving RVS when the vote was made? 2. In addition, was there no other thoughts wrt anything else from page 2 on? 

1. No, Boron could be town. He's either a townie who suspects Marth or mafia voting a suspected player.

2. There are, just none I believe that sharing publicly would help town reach its wincon sooner than later right now.

I'm trying to make up my mind about the two at the moment, though their alignments should become clearer as the day proceeds.

[Athena_57]

2 minutes ago, Omega. said:

He's either a townie who suspects Marth or mafia voting a suspected player.

This statement is kind of obvious. I mean, what other possible conclusion could be drawn from his accusations?

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

None, barring a good gut read on him or Marth. That's my answer to Eury's question though.

[Bartozio]

2 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Not necessarily you, just people in general, I'm struggling with developing a proper read on the two of them as though I don't think Marth's explanation is sufficient/good, I can see where he was coming from. In fact, I was getting the same vibes at first, which combined with your inactivity made me doubt you for a while. (I liked your last post though) As for Sunwoo, I think his reactions to Marth could be interpreted as town annoyed by being accused by someone they don't trust, but could also be interpreted as scum trying to get out of the vote.

So basically, I'm not sure about either of them, which is why I was waiting for input from other players.

I see. From your explanation, it sounds like you're not really suspecting Marth that much and are mostly on the fence about Boron. Am I missinterpreting that?

Since you seem to think Boron's response to Marth in NAI (Not allignment Indicative), do you think it's reasonable she didn't talk about things other then Marth in her first post? And do you think she talked enough about other people in her posts after that?

More importantly, what do you think about my case on Eury?

8 minutes ago, Omega. said:

1. No, Boron could be town. He's either a townie who suspects Marth or mafia voting a suspected player.

I think you missed the point of her question. Do you think Boron would combine an RVS vote with that vote on Marth just to look busy, when she also could have just left an RVS vote (as it was barely out of RVS at the time)? Or maybe worded differently, Why would Boron need to look busy at that point time?

That's how I interpreted the question at least.

Also, what do you think about my Eury case?

[Athena_57]

8 minutes ago, Omega. said:

None, barring a good gut read on him or Marth. That's my answer to Eury's question though.

My problem with your post is that it doesn't really say anything. You basically say "I'm not confident in what I've previously said and I'm not going to say anything else". I can't really do anything with it, it's almost making a post for the sake of making a post.

6 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

I see. From your explanation, it sounds like you're not really suspecting Marth that much and are mostly on the fence about Boron. Am I missinterpreting that?

Since you seem to think Boron's response to Marth in NAI (Not allignment Indicative), do you think it's reasonable she didn't talk about things other then Marth in her first post? And do you think she talked enough about other people in her posts after that?

More importantly, what do you think about my case on Eury?

 

Kind of. My problem with Marth is more tone-wise than action-wise. I'm not really bothered by his votes/pushes, but something about his tone seems off. (Mostly in his early posts, less so in the recent ones)

I think it's NAI, yeah. I would've liked to here more about other cases earlier, but it appears they felt the weapons-wagon wasn't relevant at that point, which is fair-ish.
After that, she (is it she? I assume so since everyone uses she, but the profile says male?) started discussing other stuff as well, which is better, though I would like to here more.

As for Eury, the first part of your case feels nitpicky, but I agree the lack of a vote-swap or unvote is weird. I also agree with the notion that she prefers to ask, rather than talk about her own opinions. I'm going to stay on Clarinets, but I think it's fair that you're pushing her a bit, if only so we know how she feels about everyone.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

17 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

I think you missed the point of her question. Do you think Boron would combine an RVS vote with that vote on Marth just to look busy, when she also could have just left an RVS vote (as it was barely out of RVS at the time)? Or maybe worded differently, Why would Boron need to look busy at that point time?

I think Boron dropping a vote alone would have been strange and, as scum, a poor play because it almost surely would have invited the town to push him more and demand for content. His post was already an outlier; most people were talking about the Weapons wagon and Clarinets' reactive/quiet play. In my eyes, the game was past the point of ED1.

That said, Boron has stuck with his Marth push. I'm now gauging if there's any scum pushing the other or if it's just a town slapfight. I'm not sure why or how you've dismissed it as TvT so easily.

As for your Eury case, she's null and your case doesn't push her in either direction for me.

(Btw for athena, TvT = town vs town, SvT = scum vs town, SvS = scum vs scum, used to denote the phenomena of two players with such alignments gunning for each other).

[Percivalé]

I just woke up

think what you will about it Kokichi but I don't like you being vague about your role, it gave me the impression that there might be a role in this game that can save you & after last game I'm a little less forgiving of role shenanigans. what is the scum intent behind my comment on you about your role. if you think it's because I'm scum mudslinging you that's fair I guess but that wasn't my intention. the way you're playing is vibing me as town (esp the vote on me) so I can forgive the role shit. 

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

##Vote: Marth

Yeehaw!

More later. Off to the gym for now, see y'all soon.

[Percivalé]

I can't read the rest of the thread until after work, just responding to the vote on me cuz it's over a comment I made entirely seriously but have since been less keen about because kokichi isn't rubbing me scum yet.

[Percivalé]

man it's just like 

I'm town and obviously want to keep town alive, & if you're coming in here d1 and telling everyone your role could cause us d2 mylo then yeah I'm gonna be a little concerned, and then you refuse to answer me when I ask you if there's a way we would potentially prevent that, and handwave me away in a vague manner, of course that's gonna peeve me just a little & how do I know you're not scum doing this on purpose

[Clarinets]

15 hours ago, Vi-astra said:

now that i think of it why would scum!marth ask clarinets if her claim was serious? is that even alignment-indicative? seems kinda dumb

Completely agree with this. I disagree with the case on Marth, it seems silly to find them having a weak vote despite it still being RVS when he made the vote suspicious.

@Omega I've played probably 5 or 6 games of Mafia on this site, a couple games off this site, and lots of live games on Epicmafia and Town of Salem.

@athena_57 My vote on Weapons isn't serious.

@Eurykins I don't think there's any scum intent on my bandwagon. It makes sense to me that other Townfolk would find my actions suspicious.

I would like to hear more from @Prims. Pretty sure their only contribution so far after RVS has been casing me but since then I feel like a lot more things worth talking about occurred, and I don't really know anything about their position in the game from just their casing me.

I have a problem with Kokichi's roleplaying. It seems like it's partly an excuse to be more vague in their speaking. I remember a game I played with SB where they said nothing but "..." the whole time and they were Town, but in that game that felt more like SB didn't want to put effort into their posts while in this game they're intentionally making it harder to read them.

I'm pretty sure Athena is town. They're very active at getting people to speak and getting reads, and I don't think that they would be this active as Mafia if this was their first game of forum Mafia. I disagree with their having a problem with Omega's post though because Omega usually doesn't say much as either Town or Scum.

The tone of Via's posts makes me feel like they're Town. Though this is more of a gut read than anything particularly set in stone.

I'm basically null on everyone else. I didn't like Eurykins asking Sunwoo for their thoughts on the rest of the playerbase since I felt they had already given a fair amount on everything happening at the time, but I don't think that warrants any suspicion.

##Unvote

##Vote: Kokichi Oma

[Shinori]

17 hours ago, Clarinets said:

Nothing else seemed worth talking about.

This post was extremely bad: Made at the start of page 3 and was in response to Prims commenting on him coming back repeatedly due to RVS pressure but not doing anything else.  At the point in time of this post there were a couple things that could be commented on and I see no reason for just blatantly posting things like this from a town perspective.

12 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

I don't disagree with the basis for Prims' Clarinets vote, but I am bothered by how it's gained three votes within a relatively short span of time. I agree that at this point he should give thoughts on the game, but I'm concerned that Clarinets is also an easy vote park for scum that could also be removed without suspicion if what he says is satisfactory. I think Shinori and Weapons' votes bother me a bit more than Athena's, just because it feels like they're voting him to talk more so than they actually suspect him. Shinori why do you feel Clarinets is more vote-worthy than Weapons or Bartozio?

Also, I'm having a hard time focusing on the screen I'm so fucking tired. Will be back whenever I feel like it.

Clarinets gained less votes in a longer span of time than either Weapons or Marth.  This is a hypocritical reasoning here considering that you vote-hopped onto the Marth wagon SUPER quick previously.  Especially since you 'don't disagree' with the reasoning posted for people voting Clarinets.  This seems extremely weird, you're both saying that the reasons for voting Clarinet are fine(Mainly from Prims) but you dislike how fast it got like 3 votes on him.  Why does my vote bother you so much?  I did comment that I was sheeping Prims and I did say he needs to talk more: Why is that bad?  It's early day 1 and at this point in time people should be talking, not going around specifically saying they see nothing to talk about.

WRT your questions: Bartozio and Weapons reads are more based on RVS interactions and I feel that Clarinets previous attitude of not responding to anything except RVS pressure is more telling than Weapons trolling and self voting or the weird Weapons hop from Bartozio.  They pinged me but neither are really telling easily based on alignment.  So realistically my case on Clarinets is obviously stronger or more in-depth than some RVS pinging so why is my vote weird?

##FOS: Sunwoo

11 hours ago, Eurykins said:

Clarinets feels like that white noise you hear in the background currently- where is the scumhunting efforts? I get that it was still around ED1, but faking an informed claim, adding a vote with it, and then passing it off as a simple joke is a little excessive for RVS shinanegans. 

@Shinori That's an easy sheepy vote on Clarinets. Kinda explained in the latter post, but in what way did Clarinet's post strike you as "bad"? Laziness in not scumhunting? Complacency? Scum intent or not? Also reads on the rest of the players?

Clarinets is the most distracting slot currently, and I would be fine voting if not for the immense wagon pressure currently. I have no idea what the votals are currently, but read at least 4-5 votes scanning quickly over page 2-3. Not going to put anyone at the threat of an early hammer this early in the day phase, but I am okay and supportive of the wagon currently. 

People are really biting into the Clarinets RVS joke too much.  The informed townie thing wasn't a fake it was an obvious joke.

Refusing to communicate and refusing to scumhunt.  Saying they see nothing to comment on when there are things that they could comment on is stifling discussion which is bad.  Could also be scum that doesn't want to play scum.

I don't have many reads on the rest of the players at the moment outside of scum leaning on Sunwoo and iffy vibes from Weapons/Bartozio.  Pretty sure the Weapons stuff is just him trolling though.  Also slightly iffy on SB slightly but for different stuff altogether.

10 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Eury: I think Shinori's vote-switch to Clarinets is suspicious, considering he didn't say whether he was fine with his previous votes/suspects or why he thinks Clarinets is worse than they are. Clarinets being flakey is sort of non-alignment, but considering that he actually gave some game-related content before disappearing in his previous town game, I'm leaning more scummy on his not participating at least. And anything else will have to come after I sleep.

I already commented on this but for all reasons my vote on Clarinets is stronger than my vote could have been on either of the other people I had commented on: So why is it bad?  I didn't comment as to why I was fine with weapons or Bartozio?  That's because I'm not really fine with them but Clarinets is worse.  The reason I voted him is also not due to him being Flakey so don't misrep the argument against him.

 

I need to read some more things though.  I haven't read Clarinet's most recent post.  And I haven't read over most of Bartozio's new stuff on page 4 but from what I skimmed I disliked his Eury vote.

[Sunwoo]

Fuck, I just reread my role PM and missed a part of my role. I'm ascetic so don't bother targeting me.

Weapons: It's not necessarily that I'm against the Clarinets wagon, but I'm wary of how fast it built up. I think three posts popping up on the same person within one page made me concerned that he might be an easy vote park for scum, since he hadn't done anything yet and it'd be easy to justify keeping your vote on him for that. As for people not wanting to vote Marth (anymore), I mean ... I'm not a mind reader. But I'd assume that they find other people worse than him?

SB/Kokichi doesn't really seem to be contributing much right now, I don't really have much problem with his vote on Via but his "a lot of people [are probably town based on their later posting]" doesn't sit well with me. Well jeez, who are these "lot of people" and why do they feel town to you?

Also, Clarinets, is it SB's RP that you have an issue with or his vagueness and being unhelpful? If it's the latter, do mention that first because when I read your post I initially thought you suspected SB primarily off RP.

Eury, question. Why do you feel that Clarinets is worse than Shinori?

1 minute ago, Shinori said:

Clarinets gained less votes in a longer span of time than either Weapons or Marth.  This is a hypocritical reasoning here considering that you vote-hopped onto the Marth wagon SUPER quick previously.  Especially since you 'don't disagree' with the reasoning posted for people voting Clarinets.  This seems extremely weird, you're both saying that the reasons for voting Clarinet are fine(Mainly from Prims) but you dislike how fast it got like 3 votes on him.  Why does my vote bother you so much?  I did comment that I was sheeping Prims and I did say he needs to talk more: Why is that bad?  It's early day 1 and at this point in time people should be talking, not going around specifically saying they see nothing to talk about.

You do realize that the majority of the Weapons votes were quite obviously in RVS? I'm not counting obviously RVS votes because it doesn't mean anything. Also, one of those "Weapons wagon votes" was Weapons himself. Only your vote on Weapons on page 2 looked serious. Athena's vote is obviously an RVS vote (that he removed on Marth had posted), and SB's looked like a joke vote as well. I saw Via's as the first serious vote on Marth, which would make me only the second serious vote on him. Considering that we were barely coming out of RVS at the time, the bolded statement comes off as you not looking at the context to make me look worse.

In contrast, Clarinets wagon was entirely after we'd passed RVS, which is why it came off as more weird. Your vote bothers me most because it felt like you didn't drop your suspicion on Weapons or your F.O.S. on Bartozio, but pressure voting Clarinets was better than putting a vote on someone you stated you suspected? Or do you legit suspect his inactivity and didn't mention it? That's what bothered me, not so much that you voted him.