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Can We Expect a More Serious FE Game?


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Guest Dreamyboi
47 minutes ago, Thane said:

So what you're saying is that all the writers who worked on Fates are busy with FE Switch?

You're scaring me. You're frightening the shit out of me right now.

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59 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

I'm looking at the credited writers and directors for SoV, Fates and Heroes. SoV has completely different directors to the other two games who share Kouhei Maeda. Maeda also works on the writing for Heroes, along with Satoko Kurihara, who is also the writer of SoV. None of Fates writers worked on SoV or Heroes. I wonder which members of the staff are contributing to the good or bad elements of the series. Kurihara might be a positive influence, if SoV is any indication. Maeda has been with IS since 2001, so it's hard to say how much he has affected the quality of the series. 

I'm pleased that none of the Fates writers returned, but I'm still a little anxious. Is SoV and Heroes (to a lesser extent) an indication they are trying harder now?

 

 
 

It's probably not the writers fault. Marketers and high executives would be the more likely suspect for the pandering and over ambitious stuff. "Make me a game with three complete stories, appealing to old and new fans, with sixty characters, seventy chapters and a bunch of titties. And do it within two years!"

Edited by Jotari
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58 minutes ago, Thane said:

So what you're saying is that all the writers who worked on Fates are busy with FE Switch?

Pretty much wouldn't be surprised especially when FE16 was definitely in development after Fates production.

Edited by Blade Lord Lyn
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6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It's probably not the writers fault. Marketers and high executives would be the more likely suspect for the pandering and over ambitious stuff. "Make me a game with three completely stories, sixty characters, seventy chapters and a bunch of titties. And do it within two years!"

You're probably right. Fates is so obviously a rush job, with so many conflicting elements that were designed to appeal to the most amount of people (even at the cost of the game's integrity). I can't put the blame solely, or even primarily on the writers, in that case. Still, I wish there was a way to isolate the poison so they could learn from their mistakes.

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Guest Dreamyboi
13 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

You're probably right. Fates is so obviously a rush job, with so many conflicting elements that were designed to appeal to the most amount of people (even at the cost of the game's integrity). I can't put the blame solely, or even primarily on the writers, in that case. Still, I wish there was a way to isolate the poison so they could learn from their mistakes.

The "poison" in this case was that they tried to do too much and couldn't even focus on the multiple things they were trying to do because they needed to "appeal to both" and WHOOPS.

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8 hours ago, Blade Lord Lyn said:

Pretty much wouldn't be surprised especially when FE16 was definitely in development after Fates production.

They've had plenty of time for fan feedback though. Assuming their fixing of Pair Up in Fates wasn't coincidental and the result of fan feedback, then they certainly could have changed course on certain things. Maybe they were going to go with sibling marriage and now its been axed? Maybe they aborted the kids idea? Maybe they've written a good protag and good villains? Maybe no Camillaservice? No characters from a past game in another dimension showing up for silly reasons.

We'll see if they've been listening to the world or busy in Corrin's fortress of secrecy and isolation soon enough.

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Guest Dreamyboi
26 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

They've had plenty of time for fan feedback though. Assuming their fixing of Pair Up in Fates wasn't coincidental and the result of fan feedback, then they certainly could have changed course on certain things. Maybe they were going to go with sibling marriage and now its been axed? Maybe they aborted the kids idea? Maybe they've written a good protag and good villains? Maybe no Camillaservice? No characters from a past game in another dimension showing up for silly reasons.

We'll see if they've been listening to the world or busy in Corrin's fortress of secrecy and isolation soon enough.

I'm willing to bet they've been listening. Wasn't Fates' story an attempt at a better story than Awakening? I heard that they tried for a more complex one because people criticized Awakening for being too simplistic and underwhelming. It wound up a trainwreck for a ton of different reasons, assuming the development for this game isn't the unfocused, messy, rushjob Fates' was and they're listening to fan feedback I think we might be good there. Then again my reasoning could be flawed, I've been all over the place on this. That and the fact that they no doubt listen to japanese fans first and they may not have the same complaints about certain character archetypes, mary sues and fanservice as we do

 

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1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

They've had plenty of time for fan feedback though. Assuming their fixing of Pair Up in Fates wasn't coincidental and the result of fan feedback, then they certainly could have changed course on certain things. Maybe they were going to go with sibling marriage and now its been axed? Maybe they aborted the kids idea? Maybe they've written a good protag and good villains? Maybe no Camillaservice? No characters from a past game in another dimension showing up for silly reasons.

We'll see if they've been listening to the world or busy in Corrin's fortress of secrecy and isolation soon enough.

I doubt any feedback was really negative especially from jp surveys since that matters the most to IS (unless it was massively in their face or maybe the story if not received well there) it wouldn't be smart to make big risks like these if they know it'll obviously boost the success of the game. Most likely the game is in its script finalizing stage at this point.

Edited by Blade Lord Lyn
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Nope, we're going to see more over-the-top gimmicky cardboard anime characters, more face-petting/dating-simulator nonsense, more eugenics/kid warrior breeding programs, more laughably evil Saturday-morning cartoon villains, more magical realms where time is subjective and you can pretend you're playing the Sims, and pretty much anything else that dials up the snowflake meter to eleven. I don't trust the current incarnation of IS to be capable of anything else without the game's plot being a remake of a fully pre-established script. If there's going to be improvements, they will be strictly gameplay-based.

In fact, I'm deliberating in my head if the next protagonist (who is almost definitely going to be an Avatar) will also sprout dragon wings and be a flight-capable unit right from the start, or if the Custom Lord Creation Screen will include a chest and butt slider for females along with the ability to dress them in DLC clothes for the main storyline (Swimsuits! Bayonetta/Lucina cosplay! Bridal gowns! Cute animal costumes!). Oh, and they're either using a magic Sword again, or it's going to be some brand-new bullshit weapon no-one else can use (probably both).

I'll be very pleased if IS pulls it together and doesn't do these things, but I'm not holding my breath. Mostly just hoping the gameplay's good (and TBH it should be; for Fates IMO this was a strong point, so not too many tweaks are needed).

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Guest Dreamyboi
1 hour ago, EdeaCreamer said:

Nope, we're going to see more over-the-top gimmicky cardboard anime characters, more face-petting/dating-simulator nonsense, more eugenics/kid warrior breeding programs, more laughably evil Saturday-morning cartoon villains, more magical realms where time is subjective and you can pretend you're playing the Sims, and pretty much anything else that dials up the snowflake meter to eleven. I don't trust the current incarnation of IS to be capable of anything else without the game's plot being a remake of a fully pre-established script. If there's going to be improvements, they will be strictly gameplay-based.

In fact, I'm deliberating in my head if the next protagonist (who is almost definitely going to be an Avatar) will also sprout dragon wings and be a flight-capable unit right from the start, or if the Custom Lord Creation Screen will include a chest and butt slider for females along with the ability to dress them in DLC clothes for the main storyline (Swimsuits! Bayonetta/Lucina cosplay! Bridal gowns! Cute animal costumes!). Oh, and they're either using a magic Sword again, or it's going to be some brand-new bullshit weapon no-one else can use (probably both).

I'll be very pleased if IS pulls it together and doesn't do these things, but I'm not holding my breath. Mostly just hoping the gameplay's good (and TBH it should be; for Fates IMO this was a strong point, so not too many tweaks are needed).

Yikes, I'll be ready to give up on FE plots if all that happens again

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22 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's probably not the writers fault. Marketers and high executives would be the more likely suspect for the pandering and over ambitious stuff. "Make me a game with three complete stories, appealing to old and new fans, with sixty characters, seventy chapters and a bunch of titties. And do it within two years!"

Frankly I agree with you here, there are things I've heard regarding the team that worked on Fates such as a divide more than 50% of the script for the story was cut, etc. However all that aside, Fates feels like a game that was SUPPOSED to be more it also feels like the (the developer) didn't know what they wanted to do with Fates. Fates has a very strong lack of a unified vision and direction. For example a lot of Iago's dialouge seems to indicate that he's a usurper or something of that nature, but in the end he is just the minion of Garon, which conflicts with statements that Iago has said. While I have my own hopes for the next FE game, I really hope that the developers all know what they want to do with the it, and that there is a unified vision and goal with it.

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2 hours ago, SavageVolug said:

Frankly I agree with you here, there are things I've heard regarding the team that worked on Fates such as a divide more than 50% of the script for the story was cut, etc. However all that aside, Fates feels like a game that was SUPPOSED to be more it also feels like the (the developer) didn't know what they wanted to do with Fates. Fates has a very strong lack of a unified vision and direction. For example a lot of Iago's dialouge seems to indicate that he's a usurper or something of that nature, but in the end he is just the minion of Garon, which conflicts with statements that Iago has said. While I have my own hopes for the next FE game, I really hope that the developers all know what they want to do with the it, and that there is a unified vision and goal with it.

Ugh, Iago was the worst disappointment among the villains. Like, with such an iconic name, you have to make him a good character that lives up to it. Instead we got Validar lite.

I'm pretty sure his Japanese name is Macbeth, isn't it? Doubly so then.

Edited by Book Bro
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14 minutes ago, Book Bro said:

Ugh, Iago was the worst disappointment among the villains. Like, with such an iconic name, you have to make him a good character that lives up to it. Instead we got Validar lite.

I'm pretty sure his Japanese name is Macbeth, isn't it? Doubly so then.

I was more disappointed he wasn't voiced by Gilbert Gottfried. :v

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just wanted to say Thank You, to all of you who contributed to this discussion. I never expected this topic to last as long as it did, thank you for sharing your thoughts on the subject and contributing to the topic.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 20.3.2018 at 2:16 AM, Tsak said:

It's hard to get into the story when you got stuff like Peri who makes stuff just look comical or weird ass stuff like Nowi running around and just being wildly out of place in terms of just about everything.

Hard to take the world ending seriously when you have some child like looking scantily clad dragon girl running around. It just kinda ruins everything idk


 

Fair enough point, though I thought I'd add that both of these characters are rather inconsequential to the story. Neither of them appear much if at all beyond the chapters they're introduced in. I didn't mind Nowi when I played Awakening, but I was easily able to ignore Peri's existence in Conquest, and my experience wasn't any worse for it.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because I think that while criticism of characters like Peri are definitely justified, I don't find her to be nearly as offensive as someone like Conquest!Corrin, besides arguably being a worse character. Corrin is someone who's forced onto you no matter what, and having them being badly written is a much bigger problem to me than an optional character being crap. I can substitute the latter for another character if I don't like them, but the main character needs to be good or the game is going to suffer.

That's why I'm hoping that the writing team for FE Switch puts their focus into getting that right. I'll happily excuse a poorly written side character or two if the plot relevant cast is good.

Edited by Funky Tim
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2 hours ago, Funky Tim said:

Fair enough point, though I thought I'd add that both of these characters are rather inconsequential to the story. Neither of them appear much if at all beyond the chapters they're introduced in. I didn't mind Nowi when I played Awakening, but I was easily able to ignore Peri's existence in Conquest, and my experience wasn't any worse for it.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because I think that while criticism of characters like Peri are definitely justified, I don't find her to be nearly as offensive as someone like Conquest!Corrin, besides arguably being a worse character. Corrin is someone who's forced onto you no matter what, and having them being badly written is a much bigger problem to me than an optional character being crap. I can substitute the latter for another character if I don't like them, but the main character needs to be good or the game is going to suffer.

That's why I'm hoping that the writing team for FE Switch puts their focus into getting that right. I'll happily excuse a poorly written side character or two if the plot relevant cast is good.

A psycho clown with a chainsaw(Which isn't far off from what Peri is) is going to take me out of any story that tries to be serious, regardless of if it's consequential or not. 

When building a world, you have to realize that everything you put in the world adds/subtracts to it. An impending apocalypse in a medieval setting is going to be hindered by a half naked little girl who can turn into a dragon threatening to eat people just being around. 

Edited by Slumber
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  • 3 weeks later...

Part of me wanted to see a black comedy "Fire Emblem", an installment that appears to be light-hearted and comedic, but has dark matters running behind the scenes.

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25 minutes ago, BZL8 said:

Part of me wanted to see a black comedy "Fire Emblem", an installment that appears to be light-hearted and comedic, but has dark matters running behind the scenes.

Just curious, what kind of matters do you think would make it a "black comedy"? I feel that some of the background matters in these games can be seen as fairly dark. I feel that some darker matters could put the games age ratting at risk, just like how Ace Attorney Dual Destinies ended up with a M rating due to the dark events that happened in some of these cases (although this might not be a fair comparison).

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1 hour ago, Collindew16 said:

Just curious, what kind of matters do you think would make it a "black comedy"? I feel that some of the background matters in these games can be seen as fairly dark. I feel that some darker matters could put the games age ratting at risk, just like how Ace Attorney Dual Destinies ended up with a M rating due to the dark events that happened in some of these cases (although this might not be a fair comparison).

By "dark matters", I sort of meant to say themes. I was thinking of social hegemony, war paranoia, and the human ability to distort, create harm and self-destruct (Yeah, pretty dark things, even more so than Genealogy). The idea sprang into my mind after seeing "Dr. Strangelove", which dealt with Cold War nuclear paranoia that gripped the world, and "Get Out", which explored racial hegemony in modern American society.

Edited by BZL8
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12 minutes ago, BZL8 said:

By "dark matters", I sort of meant to say themes. I was thinking of social hegemony, war paranoia, and the human ability to distort, create harm and self-destruct (Yeah, pretty dark things, even more so than Genealogy). The idea sprang into my mind after seeing "Dr. Strangelove", which dealt with Cold War nuclear paranoia that gripped the world, and "Get Out", which explored racial hegemony in modern American society.

Interesting. Personally, I would hope that the main story still has the layout of the Heroic Adventure similar to all the other FE's, rather than a change in tone. I would still be interested in seeing aspects of dark comedies shown in different side characters. If this game were to have the protagonist in a flawed kingdom, I would hope that it wouldn't be as blatantly evil as Nohr. At most I would prefer a kingdom that is morally good, but sometimes relies on some not-so-honorable tactics away from the public eyes. This could even work for an allied kingdom or even the antagonist's kingdom.

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6 hours ago, BZL8 said:

Part of me wanted to see a black comedy "Fire Emblem", an installment that appears to be light-hearted and comedic, but has dark matters running behind the scenes.

I'd be very anxious about such a project. It takes really good writing to pull off black comedy well and my fate in modern IS is shaky at best.

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9 hours ago, Jotari said:

I'd be very anxious about such a project. It takes really good writing to pull off black comedy well and my fate in modern IS is shaky at best.

Ultimately boils down to finding the right collaboration in videogame development. My idea is definitely in the far-fetched department since it would most likely require a "story-first, character-second" focus rather than the usual "character-first, story-second" approach that the series usually uses. For something like Fire Emblem, it is very easy to write a very good story that focuses solely on a select few at the expense of many other characters (case in point: Radiant Dawn). That is something I feel is a double-edged sword for the way the series handles writing.

If people want better stories, I feel the only way is to significantly cut down the number of playable characters in the game (A game with the size of Gaiden/Echoes roster (<25 characters) with the length and scope of Radiant Dawn (38 chapters, maybe even more) is something I would like to see). I realize the best stories in the "short-term" medium (movies, theater, and videogames) are those that focus on a small cast rather than a large cast.

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On 3/18/2018 at 8:32 PM, Slumber said:

The story will be serious. It always has been.

The characters, however, are an entirely different question. I'm gonna say no. I'm sure it'll be a cast of 60%+ comic relief like Awakening and Fates.

I think that's the best way to put it, if the characters had different personalities most Fire Emblem Games would feel pretty different. Nintendo is in a time of changes and I would love to see a more serious or dark Fire Emblem game. But I doubt that will happen too

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