Can We Expect a More Serious FE Game?

[SavageVolug]

The other day I was musing over the differant titles that have been ported to the Switch, Skyrim, Doom, Dark Souls. All these games have some rather serious tones and story narratives, Doom and Dark Souls especially suprise me that they have been ported. It got me wondering in light of these ports, can we expect a more serious Fire Emblem game? Perhaps a narrative that feels more realistic and gritty with less reliance on magic and the supernatural? Will this next title have a shift in tone similar to the shift that happened when the series went from the GBA games to the Gamecube/Wii games? While I don't want to get my hopes up too much, I do find it intruiging that titles such as Skyrim, Doom and Dark Souls have all been ported and it gets me wondering. What does this mean for Fire Emblem?

[Hawkwing]

Fire Emblem games have always been serious. It's Nintendo's darkest franchise, period. Heck, even the lighter entries still have some very dark moments.

As for whether or not the next game will be on the lighthearted or more serious end... I think they'll go a similar route as they did will the Tellius series, in the sense that the games were neutral on the idealism vs. cynicism scale and aimed to be grounded and realistic rather than set in an idealistic/crappy world.

I'm hoping that the next game will have a human conflict, where each side has their own reasons for entering the conflict, and the moral grayness will be handled similarly to Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction (where some sides have a higher moral ground than others, but none are perfect). I also expect that most of the darker moments will be balanced out by humorous character interactions elsewhere, without one overshadowing the other.

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

They all been serious FE16 won't be any different.

[MetalAmethyst]

2 hours ago, SavageVolug said:

The other day I was musing over the differant titles that have been ported to the Switch, Skyrim, Doom, Dark Souls. All these games have some rather serious tones and story narratives, Doom and Dark Souls especially suprise me that they have been ported. It got me wondering in light of these ports, can we expect a more serious Fire Emblem game? Perhaps a narrative that feels more realistic and gritty with less reliance on magic and the supernatural? Will this next title have a shift in tone similar to the shift that happened when the series went from the GBA games to the Gamecube/Wii games? While I don't want to get my hopes up too much, I do find it intruiging that titles such as Skyrim, Doom and Dark Souls have all been ported and it gets me wondering. What does this mean for Fire Emblem?

Considering Dark Souls and Elder Scrolls both have magic, it wouldn't change much. Like everyone else said: Fire Emblem has always been serious. Though, if you want the ending more tragic and less triumphant, that's something worth discussing.

[thecrimsonflash]

I expect it to be serious in theory, then through a series of ridiculous mechanics and bad character design, have all seriousness be so minor an element of the game as a whole to the point that you can't not laugh at an emotional scene.

Fates was pretty serious, then the introduction of incredibly quirky characters, various mechanics which are very out of place in this environment, and the use of child characters who add nothing to the game as a whole, any seriousness that they could have had, was undermined by just how unserious everything was handled.

So that question is answered with a firm no, IS is excellent at trying only to fail, at least awakening's story was a ripoff of several older fe games, so we can't look at that with too much seriousness, but fates was proof that IS is inept at using the scripts they are given.

Edited March 17, 2018 by thecrimsonflash

[NPR]

I think it really depends what you mean by serious. I think I understand what you mean when you say that there was a tone shift from the GBA games to the console. If you mean to say that the series should keep, or delve deeper into the darker and edgier tone it has in Fates while dealing with the innately dark subject matter of war, I don't think we will get much darker than we have already gone. I will say that I can see the series maintaining the attempted tone of Fates while eliminating some of the weird tonally dissonant characters that seemed to be at odds with it.

I can also see it heading back to Awakening's 'seriousness' level,where the characters are still happy quirky people with interesting dynamics that just so happen to kill hundreds of people in their spare time as a horrible war wages on. A healthy middle ground between the two seems to be where the series usually is anyway. I don't think Fire Emblem has ever been Dark Souls levels of serious in how they portray what is going on in the world, at least not on the surface.

[Ertrick36]

For a rated T game, FE actually is quite serious.  And while there were some gimmick characters, there were several more with serious moments and arcs.  Even frickin' Owain has a few serious moments with Inigo, and those two are probably the biggest clowns in Awakening's cast barring the obvious one (Henry).

Though as to if it'll be darker and grittier?  Honestly, I'd rather it not do that.  We've got enough of that trite as it is, and given what we got with Fates: Conquest, I don't have much faith in IS making a quality "dark" story.  And I definitely wouldn't want FE to follow Skyrim's writing style.  For as much shit as I give FE's writing at times, I still find it more enjoyable than Skyrim's.

[Water Mage]

30 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

I expect it to be serious in theory, then through a series of ridiculous mechanics and bad character design, have all seriousness be so minor an element of the game as a whole to the point that you can't not laugh at an emotional scene.

Fates was pretty serious, then the introduction of incredibly quirky characters, various mechanics which are very out of place in this environment, and the use of child characters who add nothing to the game as a whole, any seriousness that they could have had, was undermined by just how unserious everything was handled.

So that question is answered with a firm no, IS is excellent at trying only to fail, at least awakening's story was a ripoff of several older fe games, so we can't look at that with too much seriousness, but fates was proof that IS is inept at using the scripts they are given.

Fire Emblem always had quirky characters that felt out place. That wasn’t something exclusive to Fates. For example, do you think characters like Makalov, Illyana, Gatrie, Mia, that are very quirky doesn’t break the immersion of the serious tone of the Tellius series? Do you think L’arachel and Rennac dancing in the middle of the battlefield seem out of place? Or Gonzales getting drunk in the middle of battle? Or Bartre bashing his head against a rock and saying “big words make my head hurt” doesn’t seem out of place? 

Fire Emblem has always been a serious series, but with quirky moments. It’s nothing new to the series.

[Dandy Druid]

Are you asking for a game that's darker in tone?

[Jotari]

Just remake Jugdral.

[Flee Fleet!]

28 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Just remake Jugdral.

...Now that I notice it, Jugdral doesn't really have a lot of quirky or funny moments. I guess it would be considered darker then the rest of the games.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Flee Fleet!

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, Flee Fleet! said:

...Now that I notice it, Jugdral doesn't really have a lot of quirky or funny moments. I guess it would be considered darker then the rest of the games.

Well it has the absolute best comic relief character with Shannam. And Sylvia beeing gleefully proud of her burgeoning busom. But it does manage to be the darkest games by featuring rape, child murder, the entire protagonist' army being wiped out, the most legitmately threatening evil cult and more morally dubious conflict.

[Flee Fleet!]

13 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well it has the absolute best comic relief character with Shannam. And Sylvia beeing gleefully proud of her burgeoning busom. But it does manage to be the darkest games by featuring rape, child murder, the entire protagonist' army being wiped out, the most legitmately threatening evil cult and more morally dubious conflict.

True. Sylvia is pretty much a thot    comic relief along with Shanam. Almost everything else about Judgral is dark, not to mention the ending of FE4 doesn't really imply that the whole continent was finally at peace with no more trouble, iirc.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Flee Fleet!

[Reddazrael]

I'm so sick of things being Dark and Gritty. Mainstream comic books in the last decade or so are full of Dark and Gritty crap where things aren't profound or deep or moving or whatever and nothing's winning points with critics unless everyone's depressed and the world is without hope. Tragedy moves to tragedy in the name of "realism" and you're like, god, why am I even bothering with this thing if I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel? What is the point of suffering through this world if I'm just going to leave it feeling worse than I did when I first showed up in it?

Fire Emblem, in my opinion, has always done a decent job of mixing serious with quirky. I like it that way. The games aren't completely serious, just like life is never completely serious. On the whole, the plots are serious, but some of the characters are not.

Sure, war is hell and all that, but for god's sake there's room for laughter in the trenches once in a while. Even in the midst of real-life wars, between the mourning of friends and the terror of combat, you'll find soldiers pulling pranks on each other, and playing cards games, and talking about the good things in their lives, and just generally being human beings. What they're going through is serious, yes, but the vast majority of people just cannot live without some semblance of light in the darkness.

So, no. If "more serious" means "darker and grittier", where everyone is Srs Bsns and there's no room for a smile, you can count me out.

[Guest Dreamyboi]

They MIGHT be able to pull it off, though personally I hope the definition of "serious" here doesn't mean "total gloom" because there can be a way to balance it out. Unless they pull the same shit they did with Fates, then the plot is fucked.

2 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said:

I expect it to be serious in theory, then through a series of ridiculous mechanics and bad character design, have all seriousness be so minor an element of the game as a whole to the point that you can't not laugh at an emotional scene.

Fates was pretty serious, then the introduction of incredibly quirky characters, various mechanics which are very out of place in this environment, and the use of child characters who add nothing to the game as a whole, any seriousness that they could have had, was undermined by just how unserious everything was handled.

So that question is answered with a firm no, IS is excellent at trying only to fail, at least awakening's story was a ripoff of several older fe games, so we can't look at that with too much seriousness, but fates was proof that IS is inept at using the scripts they are given.

Basically this.

Getting back on topic though, I'm not sure yet. Personally I think they'll try for something more lighthearted considering the sales history.

 

Edited March 17, 2018 by Dreamyboi

[SavageVolug]

Wow thanks guys for sharing your thoughts. I did not expect to get this many responses.

17 hours ago, NPR said:

I think it really depends what you mean by serious. I think I understand what you mean when you say that there was a tone shift from the GBA games to the console. If you mean to say that the series should keep, or delve deeper into the darker and edgier tone it has in Fates while dealing with the innately dark subject matter of war, I don't think we will get much darker than we have already gone. I will say that I can see the series maintaining the attempted tone of Fates while eliminating some of the weird tonally dissonant characters that seemed to be at odds with it.

I can also see it heading back to Awakening's 'seriousness' level,where the characters are still happy quirky people with interesting dynamics that just so happen to kill hundreds of people in their spare time as a horrible war wages on. A healthy middle ground between the two seems to be where the series usually is anyway. I don't think Fire Emblem has ever been Dark Souls levels of serious in how they portray what is going on in the world, at least not on the surface.

I should have clarified what I meant by serious. First off NO I do not mean Dark Souls level serious, nor do I think the writing of Fire Emblem should be done in a Skyrim style. I think what I had in mind was something with a tone similar to either the Jugdrael games especially Thraccia which is probably the most serious the series as ever gotten or the Tellius game. Both of these have a tone that is more serious compared to say the GBA games. That would be I think too far of a tone leap, to go from games like Awakening and Fates to something that's trying to simulate Dark Souls' tone. No I just meant something similar to the tone that the Jugdrael or Tellius games had. 

 

16 hours ago, Dreamyboi said:

They MIGHT be able to pull it off, though personally I hope the definition of "serious" here doesn't mean "total gloom" because there can be a way to balance it out. Unless they pull the same shit they did with Fates, then the plot is fucked.

When I said serious I was not thinking as you put it total gloom. That's why I referred to the tone shift that happened when the series went from GBA to the Gamecube and Wii i.e. the Tellius series I was hoping that comparison would clarify the kind of serious I was thinking of. What I was envisioning what we MIGHT get in terms of a more serious Fire Emblem game was something similar to either the Tellius or Jugdrael games. Perhaps a bit of the protagonist having to earn his/her place in the world similar to how Leif does in Thraccia. Stuff isn't just handed to him on a silver platter like someone else I know, Micaiha also has to earn her place. While Thraccia and Genealogy are serious I wouldn't call it total gloom, you still have your fun characters Sylvia and Alec come to mind.

[Etrurian emperor]

20 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said:

but fates was proof that IS is inept at using the scripts they are given.

Possibly but its worth noting IS wasn't just using the script they were given. Aside from conveying the premise they also ''had'' to split that premise into three games, they ''had'' to balance between the two groups in the fanbase and ''had'' to give the Awakening fans their due. 

And of course they didn't ''had'' to but the devs might feel differently about that. When see see the horribly justified second gen that was likely added at the lost moment or the equally last moment decision to drop the premise and just make you be able to marry the Hoshidan royals the impression appears that they tried very hard to pander. Perhaps they grew cold feet somewhere during development and ran like hell to Awakening's comfortable shadow and kept pandering all the way.

We can see this as pathetic but its also quite understandable when we consider that Fire emblem was just one disappointing sale away from cancellation. So of course they tried to shove in everything people liked about Awakening as to not lose those fans, of course they made you able to marry the Hoshidan siblings because they can't risk offending the dating sim crowd that was so important to the sales. 

[Jotari]

44 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Possibly but its worth noting IS wasn't just using the script they were given. Aside from conveying the premise they also ''had'' to split that premise into three games, they ''had'' to balance between the two groups in the fanbase and ''had'' to give the Awakening fans their due. 

And of course they didn't ''had'' to but the devs might feel differently about that. When see see the horribly justified second gen that was likely added at the lost moment or the equally last moment decision to drop the premise and just make you be able to marry the Hoshidan royals the impression appears that they tried very hard to pander. Perhaps they grew cold feet somewhere during development and ran like hell to Awakening's comfortable shadow and kept pandering all the way.

We can see this as pathetic but its also quite understandable when we consider that Fire emblem was just one disappointing sale away from cancellation. So of course they tried to shove in everything people liked about Awakening as to not lose those fans, of course they made you able to marry the Hoshidan siblings because they can't risk offending the dating sim crowd that was so important to the sales. 

It's also worth noting that Fates sold really well (even more than Awakening I think?), so they could equally feel they have to appeal to all those crowds in the next original installment. They're not really going to feel inclined to change the formula if it's making them guaranteed money.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Jotari

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's also worth noting that Fates sold really well (even more than Awakening I think?), so they could equally feel they have to appeal to all those crowds in the next original installment. They're not really going to feel inclined to change the formula if it's making them guaranteed money.

Pretty much, ain't broke don't fix and evolve 

[Guest Dreamyboi]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's also worth noting that Fates sold really well (even more than Awakening I think?), so they could equally feel they have to appeal to all those crowds in the next original installment. They're not really going to feel inclined to change the formula if it's making them guaranteed money.

True, let's just hope they handle it more carefully then I guess.

[Slumber]

The story will be serious. It always has been.

The characters, however, are an entirely different question. I'm gonna say no. I'm sure it'll be a cast of 60%+ comic relief like Awakening and Fates.

[Lewyn]

I'm all for Game of Thrones light.  Complex relationships, motivations, politics, lots of surprises, great world building and lore, heroes don't always win, and stuff being on a grand epic scale while still being able to focus acutely on the many characters within this world.  

 

[SavageVolug]

11 hours ago, Lewyn said:

I'm all for Game of Thrones light.  Complex relationships, motivations, politics, lots of surprises, great world building and lore, heroes don't always win, and stuff being on a grand epic scale while still being able to focus acutely on the many characters within this world.  

 

I'm not familiar with Game of Thrones although I have heard good things about it. But you have summed up what I had in mind when I said a more serious Fire Emblem game. What you're describing also sounds a bit like Thracia 776.

[Guest Dreamyboi]

14 hours ago, Slumber said:

The story will be serious. It always has been.

The characters, however, are an entirely different question. I'm gonna say no. I'm sure it'll be a cast of 60%+ comic relief like Awakening and Fates.

Jesus christ let's hope not. I'm trying to believe Arthur and Peri are as bad as it gets and I DO NOT want IntSys to prove me wrong on that.

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

15 hours ago, Slumber said:

The story will be serious. It always has been.

The characters, however, are an entirely different question. I'm gonna say no. I'm sure it'll be a cast of 60%+ comic relief like Awakening and Fates.

Good for me!