Does Valentia seem like a continent to you?

[X-Naut]

My headcanon is that the Sable Order survivors dressed him back up (cleaned his wounds, etc.) and gave him a good ol' burial at sea. Surviving the open ocean on his own is madness, at least his floating coffin can get him most of the way.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

I do not know about FE1 or Book 1 of FE3, but in FE11, he does actually move. 

To be honest, this feels like the wounds and injuries he has here are from the battle with Marth, and him calling for Nyna here sort of reflects his defeat quote in Shadow Dragon where he calls her name.

And even if Marth did not want to fight him, Camus really isn't someone you actually can afford to go easy on, since otherwise he will kill you, and he made it clear that he was going to fight as a Knight of Grust. Marth would have to have given it his all and beyond to be able to best someone like Camus. 

Well, I mean. Falchion is effective on Duma in how it can deal damage to Duma even after his HP drops to 52, so it does count. 

That would definitely be going against what Naga told him to. But sending him through there was no doubt a test to see Anri's own worth as a person. No way was Gotoh going to hand the most powerful sword in the continent to someone that was unworthy. 

Pretty sure those are necrodragons that are colored white. Even Echoes labels them as Terrors. Great Terrors, sure. But Terrors nonetheless. They aren't alive. Plus, Echoes makes the difference between living dragons and necrodragons abundantly clear, with living dragons using breath attacks that ignores defense, which all necrodragons lack.

In other words, both scenarios are at that point a possibility. I'll choose to take the best part from that as justification on Camus' strength. Its the real deal.

Regarding the White Dragons, we once again have to deal with the fact that Gaiden was a game made over twenty years ago with the resource limitations of a NES game. Yes, the White Dragons are a recoloured sprite for the Necro Dragons. However, as I view it, the mere fact that they aren't Necro Dragons is an indication that they aren't zombies. You have to question what role the dragons serve in the game. If they're just meant to be powerful enemies, then they would have used Necro Dragons with those stats (Alm cuts through them pretty easily regardless as to what they are, and he kind of of needs to for that segment to be possible to beat). In Echoes, the White Dragons are clearly alive and not decaying beings, even if they do have the Terror Status. That can be taken as either a retcon or a realisation of what they were always intended to be.

[omegaxis1]

48 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Regarding the White Dragons, we once again have to deal with the fact that Gaiden was a game made over twenty years ago with the resource limitations of a NES game. Yes, the White Dragons are a recoloured sprite for the Necro Dragons. However, as I view it, the mere fact that they aren't Necro Dragons is an indication that they aren't zombies. You have to question what role the dragons serve in the game. If they're just meant to be powerful enemies, then they would have used Necro Dragons with those stats (Alm cuts through them pretty easily regardless as to what they are, and he kind of of needs to for that segment to be possible to beat). In Echoes, the White Dragons are clearly alive and not decaying beings, even if they do have the Terror Status. That can be taken as either a retcon or a realisation of what they were always intended to be.

They look more alive, but that doesn't mean they are alive. Look at Mogalls or the Deathgoyales. They do not have the appearance of decayed creatures in their portraits, but they are non-living creatures as Great Terrors.

Furthermore, if they were truly meant to be genuine dragons, those White Dragons would in fact not be using just their claw and fang attacks. We clearly see the two new classes, the Dagons and the Dragons, who are classified as dragons, being able to use breath attacks. It's easy to assume that breath attacks are things that can only be used if you are alive. 

They were given more lively portraits, but that does not necessarily mean they have to actually be alive in the end. In fact, the case on how they are less decayed or look more alive is the very reason they are called Great Terrors, as they are basically a promoted, or advanced version of the ordinary Terrors, and that is why they are much stronger than the ordinary necrodragon.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

They look more alive, but that doesn't mean they are alive. Look at Mogalls or the Deathgoyales. They do not have the appearance of decayed creatures in their portraits, but they are non-living creatures as Great Terrors.

Furthermore, if they were truly meant to be genuine dragons, those White Dragons would in fact not be using just their claw and fang attacks. We clearly see the two new classes, the Dagons and the Dragons, who are classified as dragons, being able to use breath attacks. It's easy to assume that breath attacks are things that can only be used if you are alive. 

They were given more lively portraits, but that does not necessarily mean they have to actually be alive in the end. In fact, the case on how they are less decayed or look more alive is the very reason they are called Great Terrors, as they are basically a promoted, or advanced version of the ordinary Terrors, and that is why they are much stronger than the ordinary necrodragon.

You're making two massive assumptions here. 1, that all terrors are non living creatures and 2, breath attacks prove they're a dragon. Neither point actually has any relevance to the suggestion that Duma is a dragon because he has dragons in his lair. For the first one, it's unsubstanstiated. Terrors are only described as monsters. Certainly some terrors seem to be undead creatures, but that doesn't mean all of them are. It's like saying all laguz are hawks because some of them are clearly hawks while others are ambigiously hawks to varying degrees. The breath thing is also unsubstanstiated. We don't know for sure that necro zombies can't use a breath attack (they can in Magvel) and even if they can't, it doesn't actually suggest anything of the sort. Duma himself doesn't use a breath attack (though we can assume he is able to given he's a Divine Dragon), that doesn't make him any less of a dragon. Bringing up Dagons is pointless as they're exclsuive to the remake. Doma and Mila obviously are Dragons in the remake, so anything pertaining to the remake on it's own is irrelvant, unless one hopes to argue that Doma and Mila are in fact not dragons in Echoes. I only brought up the White Dragons in Echoes to illustrate that they appeared alive enough that the developers of the remake chose to clearly depict them as such. But to talk more about the remake (because evidently I enjoy pointless arguments like this), the dagons and the fire dragons appear alongside white dragons. They assosciate with each other. The Fafnir class description even calls it an ancient dragon. It's even part of the same army as the dagons and fire dragons (The Brethren) yet it's a terror. It all leads back to the same point. Duma has an association with dragons. His most powerful minons in the deepest part of his lair are dragons. Yes, he halso associates with gargoyles and zombies, and if he resembled a gargoyle, was defeated with a gargoyle sealing sword, gargoyles were known to be worshipped as gods in other parts of the Kagaverse, gargoyles were known to change between human and monster form, then I would work under the assumption that he was originally intended to be a gargoyle. But instead, he has a bunch of similarities to a dragon, even in the original game. The people in charge of the remake didn't pull Doma and Mila being dragons out of their ass. It's not like changing Ashera or Foemantiis into a dragon. There has always been reason to speculate that Doma and Mila were draconic in nature, people discussed the possibility years before Echoes came out.

[omegaxis1]

13 hours ago, Jotari said:

You're making two massive assumptions here. 1, that all terrors are non living creatures and 2, breath attacks prove they're a dragon. Neither point actually has any relevance to the suggestion that Duma is a dragon because he has dragons in his lair. For the first one, it's unsubstanstiated. Terrors are only described as monsters. Certainly some terrors seem to be undead creatures, but that doesn't mean all of them are. It's like saying all laguz are hawks because some of them are clearly hawks while others are ambigiously hawks to varying degrees. The breath thing is also unsubstanstiated. We don't know for sure that necro zombies can't use a breath attack (they can in Magvel) and even if they can't, it doesn't actually suggest anything of the sort. Duma himself doesn't use a breath attack (though we can assume he is able to given he's a Divine Dragon), that doesn't make him any less of a dragon. Bringing up Dagons is pointless as they're exclsuive to the remake. Doma and Mila obviously are Dragons in the remake, so anything pertaining to the remake on it's own is irrelvant, unless one hopes to argue that Doma and Mila are in fact not dragons in Echoes. I only brought up the White Dragons in Echoes to illustrate that they appeared alive enough that the developers of the remake chose to clearly depict them as such. But to talk more about the remake (because evidently I enjoy pointless arguments like this), the dagons and the fire dragons appear alongside white dragons. They assosciate with each other. The Fafnir class description even calls it an ancient dragon. It's even part of the same army as the dagons and fire dragons (The Brethren) yet it's a terror. It all leads back to the same point. Duma has an association with dragons. His most powerful minons in the deepest part of his lair are dragons. Yes, he halso associates with gargoyles and zombies, and if he resembled a gargoyle, was defeated with a gargoyle sealing sword, gargoyles were known to be worshipped as gods in other parts of the Kagaverse, gargoyles were known to change between human and monster form, then I would work under the assumption that he was originally intended to be a gargoyle. But instead, he has a bunch of similarities to a dragon, even in the original game. The people in charge of the remake didn't pull Doma and Mila being dragons out of their ass. It's not like changing Ashera or Foemantiis into a dragon. There has always been reason to speculate that Doma and Mila were draconic in nature, people discussed the possibility years before Echoes came out.

To be honest, Echoes brought in not just the issue of the White Dragons, but also in regards to the Dagon, Grima, Duma, and such.

I mean, before, we knew that there were only 6 known tribes for Dragons: Mage, Fire, Ice, Earth, Flying, Divine. But now we have Dagons who are classified as dragons even, that live in the waters and can shoot water breaths. They are clearly very powerful, but for some reason, they apparently have very delicious meat, as a sidequest talked about them and eating them. So yeah, they are the only dragons that are actually eaten by people. That's a new one. 

I actually feel like Duma is a unique case. Duma no longer seems to show any traits of a Divine Dragon any longer. His body is a rotting blue, his wings are degrading, and he has a giant eye ball that goes onto his body's forehead. Furthermore, his powers are more darkness and earth based, which isn't anything akin to that of a Divine Dragon. And like you said, he doesn't even use a breath attack, but instead his eyeball can shoot laser beams, and his claws can become tentacles. It feels almost like Duma has... well, mutated. It sort of makes me think about Anankos, as his dragon body seems to be more of a mutation than his original dragon form, since it seems odd that Anankos as the dragon was once loved by many when he had a ball of eyeballs in his mouth.

The Fafnirs has been a major issue from me. They indicate that it's alive, but for some reason a Terror. Some presumptions that are made for that is that its because they reuse the same assets as a necrodragon.

However, the issue with the White Dragon is that there are literally only 2 White Dragons that we ever encounter, and that's only in Act V, being in the treasure room dungeon that is where Duma's Tower is also at. 

Plus, I believe the in-game description of the White Dragon is:

Quote

A powerful flying dragon reanimated through magic.

Meaning that it is a dragon that was brought back to life, presumably by the Duma Faithful. 

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

To be honest, Echoes brought in not just the issue of the White Dragons, but also in regards to the Dagon, Grima, Duma, and such.

I mean, before, we knew that there were only 6 known tribes for Dragons: Mage, Fire, Ice, Earth, Flying, Divine. But now we have Dagons who are classified as dragons even, that live in the waters and can shoot water breaths. They are clearly very powerful, but for some reason, they apparently have very delicious meat, as a sidequest talked about them and eating them. So yeah, they are the only dragons that are actually eaten by people. That's a new one. 

I actually feel like Duma is a unique case. Duma no longer seems to show any traits of a Divine Dragon any longer. His body is a rotting blue, his wings are degrading, and he has a giant eye ball that goes onto his body's forehead. Furthermore, his powers are more darkness and earth based, which isn't anything akin to that of a Divine Dragon. And like you said, he doesn't even use a breath attack, but instead his eyeball can shoot laser beams, and his claws can become tentacles. It feels almost like Duma has... well, mutated. It sort of makes me think about Anankos, as his dragon body seems to be more of a mutation than his original dragon form, since it seems odd that Anankos as the dragon was once loved by many when he had a ball of eyeballs in his mouth.

The Fafnirs has been a major issue from me. They indicate that it's alive, but for some reason a Terror. Some presumptions that are made for that is that its because they reuse the same assets as a necrodragon.

However, the issue with the White Dragon is that there are literally only 2 White Dragons that we ever encounter, and that's only in Act V, being in the treasure room dungeon that is where Duma's Tower is also at. 

Plus, I believe the in-game description of the White Dragon is:

Meaning that it is a dragon that was brought back to life, presumably by the Duma Faithful. 

I agree, Duma has mutated into something distinctly different, but he is still quite clearly a dragon in the remake, even if he doesn't use a breath attack. Could possibly have something to do with Shadow Dragons, a process which we know absolute nothing about other than they exist.

If the white dragon description says they're reanimated, then I'd have to relent there. They're zombies. But I still don't reckon it actually matters. It's info from the remake (which as I've said is moot for determining what Duma originally was) and even if they are zombies, the point is that Duma has them in his lair. Which no, isn't compelling evidence (as have people have pointed out, Foemantiis employs Draco Zombies too), but it is a point in favor a long with more than half a dozen others. Which I would list, but we've significantly derailed the original point of what Valentia feels like on the whole. If you want, we can continue to talk in PM (as originally suggested, fool on me thinking I could keep things brief).

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I agree, Duma has mutated into something distinctly different, but he is still quite clearly a dragon in the remake, even if he doesn't use a breath attack. Could possibly have something to do with Shadow Dragons, a process which we know absolute nothing about other than they exist.

I did consider the possibility of Duma becoming a Shadow Dragon. I mean, Medeus is said by Gotoh to transform into a Shadow Dragon on his own by his next awakening. However, it very well could be some side effect to degeneration. Duma wasn't just degenerating, he was seeking so much power that he was using terrifying dark magic. As we've seen with Gharnef, that was corrupted by the Darksphere, something that is very much like a dragonstone, Gharnef's form changed and he looked very unappealing. So it's possible that Duma was in fact undergoing a similar process. I mean, it isn't like dragons are actually immune to the effects of dark magic, but rather are much more resistant due to being more powerful than humans. But Duma was degenerating and delving deeper into it, so naturally these two cases would merge together and may have caused a mutation to occur. 

10 minutes ago, Jotari said:

If the white dragon description says they're reanimated, then I'd have to relent there. They're zombies. But I still don't reckon it actually matters. It's info from the remake (which as I've said is moot for determining what Duma originally was) and even if they are zombies, the point is that Duma has them in his lair. Which no, isn't compelling evidence (as have people have pointed out, Foemantiis employs Draco Zombies too), but it is a point in favor a long with more than half a dozen others. Which I would list, but we've significantly derailed the original point of what Valentia feels like on the whole. If you want, we can continue to talk in PM (as originally suggested, fool on me thinking I could keep things brief).

To be honest, my main concern is... where did these dragons come from? Not the Dagons, I mean the actual necrodragons? Where did they come from? Were they native to Valentia? Are they belonging in any tribe? Why are they all dead? 

And it was mentioned way earlier in this thread, there were no wyverns in Valentia at all. But suddenly in Awakening, we find out that there's a place called Wyvern Valley. When exactly did wyverns migrate there exactly?

[Hawkwing]

I would say that Valentia felt like a continent to me. A very small one, mind you, but there are several small continents in the real world so I don't see the size as too strange. It taking around a month to travel from one end of the map to the other with a mostly on-foot with an army isn't much of a stretch either. Besides, the land has a varied terrain as well, and I'd expect that more towns and cities would pop up over time as the population grows. Personally, I would compare the size of Valentia to Morrowind from the Elder Scrolls; not huge, but large enough to have quite a few towns, cities, forts, etc. to satisfy any adventurer.

2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

To be honest, my main concern is... where did these dragons come from? Not the Dagons, I mean the actual necrodragons? Where did they come from? Were they native to Valentia? Are they belonging in any tribe? Why are they all dead? 

And it was mentioned way earlier in this thread, there were no wyverns in Valentia at all. But suddenly in Awakening, we find out that there's a place called Wyvern Valley. When exactly did wyverns migrate there exactly?

I always though that the necrodragons where undead wyverns. As for wyvern valley, I assumed that is is there in Valentia, but due to being located in the middle of some mountains, it would make sense why the general populace wouldn't know or care about the existence of wyverns, and those who would would leave said wyverns alone. I assume that Gaiden/Echoes didn't have wyvern riders (outside of gameplay/development reasons) was because:

A. Few in Valentia knew the art of taming and riding wyverns, and even fewer knew how to train them for military situations, so the militaries of both Rigel and Zofia though that weaponizing them would be impractical.

and/or

B. Considering that very powerful cantors can summon necrodragons, It would have been considered counterproductive to risk having such a powerful beast be summoned every time a wyvern rider was felled, especially since by comparison bonewalkers and zombies are workable, if annoying, threats to deal with.

Sometime after the events of SoV, Wryvern riding became more common, and I suppose the practice of summoning the dead was forgotten or banned (because Alm and Celica hated how much of a slog they made certain maps and never wanted to go through that experience again) meaning that the risk of a dead wyvern being summoned again as a necroodragon was nonexistent.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Hawkwing said:

I would say that Valentia felt like a continent to me. A very small one, mind you, but there are several small continents in the real world so I don't see the size as too strange. It taking around a month to travel from one end of the map to the other with a mostly on-foot with an army isn't much of a stretch either. Besides, the land has a varied terrain as well, and I'd expect that more towns and cities would pop up over time as the population grows. Personally, I would compare the size of Valentia to Morrowind from the Elder Scrolls; not huge, but large enough to have quite a few towns, cities, forts, etc. to satisfy any adventurer.

I always though that the necrodragons where undead wyverns. As for wyvern valley, I assumed that is is there in Valentia, but due to being located in the middle of some mountains, it would make sense why the general populace wouldn't know or care about the existence of wyverns, and those who would would leave said wyverns alone. I assume that Gaiden/Echoes didn't have wyvern riders (outside of gameplay/development reasons) was because:

A. Few in Valentia knew the art of taming and riding wyverns, and even fewer knew how to train them for military situations, so the militaries of both Rigel and Zofia though that weaponizing them would be impractical.

and/or

B. Considering that very powerful cantors can summon necrodragons, It would have been considered counterproductive to risk having such a powerful beast be summoned every time a wyvern rider was felled, especially since by comparison bonewalkers and zombies are workable, if annoying, threats to deal with.

Sometime after the events of SoV, Wryvern riding became more common, and I suppose the practice of summoning the dead was forgotten or banned (because Alm and Celica hated how much of a slog they made certain maps and never wanted to go through that experience again) meaning that the risk of a dead wyvern being summoned again as a necroodragon was nonexistent.

Assuming the army can travel a generous 25 miles a day (unreliable source), that would put the length of Valencia at under 800 miles (12,000 km) long, which is smaller than Great Britain (take a more conservative estimate of 10-15 miles a day and you get something about the size of Ireland). Which fits in with the remote island idea. I just remembered I once tried to calculate the size of Ylisse and Valm using the mountains in the north west (which we get solid numbers for) and came to the conclusion that Archanea is about the size of Ukraine and Valancia is about the size of France, which does fit in very nicly with those travel times. Of course it also means there far from anything we'd recognise as a continent on this planet.

https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/73046-chrom-should-have-surrendered-to-walhart/

Edited March 19, 2018 by Jotari

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 3/18/2018 at 1:17 PM, omegaxis1 said:

I mean, before, we knew that there were only 6 known tribes for Dragons: Mage, Fire, Ice, Earth, Flying, Divine. But now we have Dagons who are classified as dragons even, that live in the waters and can shoot water breaths.

Actually, there is this old nugget from FE3:

Classes

The Guardian looks very similar to a General, but I don’t believe it is programmed to use any weapons. The Dark Knight is basically like a Social Knight or Paladin (it has a Social Knight battle sprite). Perhaps it was meant to be a custom class for Camus. Finally we have the Sea Dragon, which has the ability to move freely on water just like Pirates; it uses a Fire Dragon battle sprite, which is disappointing. All three classes have a glitchy inactive map sprite (since chapters are restricted to a finite number of class sprites).

 

On 3/18/2018 at 7:04 PM, omegaxis1 said:

And it was mentioned way earlier in this thread, there were no wyverns in Valentia at all. But suddenly in Awakening, we find out that there's a place called Wyvern Valley. When exactly did wyverns migrate there exactly?

Well for living wyverns in Valm, ever heard about horses? A horse evolutionary ancestor existed in North America during the last Ice Age. The extinctions killed off the horse in North America, only those that fled to Asia across the Bering Land Bridge survived to become the modern species. 

Getting to the more relevant part of this horse story, later Spanish conquistadors bring horses with them to North America, a few escape captivity and before you know it North America is covered in wild stallions like they lived there the entire time and the Native Americans of the Great Plains embraced them (radically altering GP NA lifestyles). This happened in a couple hundred years, Valentia has 2000 to develop Wyvern Valley, it could happen with time to spare.

SoV features no Wyverns whatsoever, and only Clair and the Whitewings have steeds canonically, we never see a generic Pegasus or Falcoknight. To me, this indicates that any Pegs Valentia has are imported in small numbers from Macedon, which only the wealthy like Clair's family can afford. Breeding efforts in Valentia of Pegs might not have produced any successful foals yet. Or, Macedon is cautious in how many Pegasus they sell and giving away the breeding and maintenance techniques. Why? Macedon's one big military advantage is its monopoly on flying troops in Archanea, both Pegasus, and Wyvern, which you don't see at all in Valentia, possibly because Wyverns are deemed more valuable than Pegasus. Sell too many Pegs or worse Wyverns, and besides ending a lucrative trade for Macedon since they can set the prices at whatever they want if there is no competition, it undermines its geopolitical power.

But eventually, by choice or by cunning trade entrepreneurs and thieves who subvert the strict commerce regulations, Macedon loses its flight monopoly and a few Wyverns escape into the wilds of Valentia, which then congregate to places where they would flourish in nature to survive. Viola, your Wyvern Valley.

 

For me, Valentia seems too small to be a continent; Magvel seems better in this regard, although maybe its only because walking speed on the map is slower there and there are more countries. Elibe, Archanea, Jugdral, and Tellius all feel like continents though.

Yet Elibe and Tellius have this weird thing where north and east of Daein, east of Begnion, and east of Sacae are land that goes off the map. Why hasn't anyone explored any of these? Sacae is pure plains, Daein might have the Desert of Death, but east of Lake Semper (the Persis-Culbert region) does not appear to have challenging geography. And does Hatari border the sea on all sides not the DoD? As is, Tellius looks a little like the Iberian Peninsula. And the idea there is a huge amount of land connected to Tellius to the north and east undermines the idea Ashunera-Yune sunk everywhere but Tellius (although I can see the deluge eventually receding everywhere else and life beginning anew there- albeit cleansed of most lifeforms including all intelligent ones).

[Jotari]

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Actually, there is this old nugget from FE3:

Classes

The Guardian looks very similar to a General, but I don’t believe it is programmed to use any weapons. The Dark Knight is basically like a Social Knight or Paladin (it has a Social Knight battle sprite). Perhaps it was meant to be a custom class for Camus. Finally we have the Sea Dragon, which has the ability to move freely on water just like Pirates; it uses a Fire Dragon battle sprite, which is disappointing. All three classes have a glitchy inactive map sprite (since chapters are restricted to a finite number of class sprites).

 

Well for living wyverns in Valm, ever heard about horses? A horse evolutionary ancestor existed in North America during the last Ice Age. The extinctions killed off the horse in North America, only those that fled to Asia across the Bering Land Bridge survived to become the modern species. 

Getting to the more relevant part of this horse story, later Spanish conquistadors bring horses with them to North America, a few escape captivity and before you know it North America is covered in wild stallions like they lived there the entire time and the Native Americans of the Great Plains embraced them (radically altering GP NA lifestyles). This happened in a couple hundred years, Valentia has 2000 to develop Wyvern Valley, it could happen with time to spare.

SoV features no Wyverns whatsoever, and only Clair and the Whitewings have steeds canonically, we never see a generic Pegasus or Falcoknight. To me, this indicates that any Pegs Valentia has are imported in small numbers from Macedon, which only the wealthy like Clair's family can afford. Breeding efforts in Valentia of Pegs might not have produced any successful foals yet. Or, Macedon is cautious in how many Pegasus they sell and giving away the breeding and maintenance techniques. Why? Macedon's one big military advantage is its monopoly on flying troops in Archanea, both Pegasus, and Wyvern, which you don't see at all in Valentia, possibly because Wyverns are deemed more valuable than Pegasus. Sell too many Pegs or worse Wyverns, and besides ending a lucrative trade for Macedon since they can set the prices at whatever they want if there is no competition, it undermines its geopolitical power.

But eventually, by choice or by cunning trade entrepreneurs and thieves who subvert the strict commerce regulations, Macedon loses its flight monopoly and a few Wyverns escape into the wilds of Valentia, which then congregate to places where they would flourish in nature to survive. Viola, your Wyvern Valley.

 

For me, Valentia seems too small to be a continent; Magvel seems better in this regard, although maybe its only because walking speed on the map is slower there and there are more countries. Elibe, Archanea, Jugdral, and Tellius all feel like continents though.

Yet Elibe and Tellius have this weird thing where north and east of Daein, east of Begnion, and east of Sacae are land that goes off the map. Why hasn't anyone explored any of these? Sacae is pure plains, Daein might have the Desert of Death, but east of Lake Semper (the Persis-Culbert region) does not appear to have challenging geography. And does Hatari border the sea on all sides not the DoD? As is, Tellius looks a little like the Iberian Peninsula. And the idea there is a huge amount of land connected to Tellius to the north and east undermines the idea Ashunera-Yune sunk everywhere but Tellius (although I can see the deluge eventually receding everywhere else and life beginning anew there- albeit cleansed of most lifeforms including all intelligent ones).

Shadows of Valentia also has Guardians as an enemy type, meaning they were definitely data mining old games looking for ideas there. In addition, the very first game says there's only three dragon tribes (even though back then there was clearly four) and the remake later added another two (or added one and retconned wyverns into being related). A layer remake adding another type isn't an issue at all. Retroactive continuity isn't always poor attempts to cover up plot holes. Some times its just there to add more stuff that wasn't originally planned.

[Mirania]

I guess it kinda felt like an island. 

[Etrurian emperor]

On 17-3-2018 at 9:31 PM, Darros said:

The thing though is I think this is supposed to be a young continent. No cities absolutely everywhere, only two countries, etc. That and it's not like your parties are traveling across long patches of nothing in between. It's just stuff you don't see.

I think Valantia might be a relatively more advanced continent. It may have only two countries but those countries spawn the entire continent whereas in Archenea half of the world has yet to be civilized and even Elibe has some portions of the map were no nation has really settled yet. Valentia also seems to have a bigger sprinkle of ''Greece'' into them at times, something Archenea has too but to a lesser extend. 

Two dragons guiding the continent may also help more with development than dragons mostly dying out or forming an empire to take over the world. 

[X-Naut]

59 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think Valantia might be a relatively more advanced continent. It may have only two countries but those countries spawn the entire continent whereas in Archenea half of the world has yet to be civilized and even Elibe has some portions of the map were no nation has really settled yet. Valentia also seems to have a bigger sprinkle of ''Greece'' into them at times, something Archenea has too but to a lesser extend. 

Two dragons guiding the continent may also help more with development than dragons mostly dying out or forming an empire to take over the world. 

The northern half of Archanea is primarily badlands, from desert to a volcanic region to icy mountain ranges. Rigel and northeast Zofia also have this but it's in smaller pockets and as you said two dragons are there to guide them. Archanea not only lacks dragons as a prominent presence (aside from Gotoh overseeing magic), but has also experienced no less than two bloody conflicts (the Earth Dragon roundup and the first rise of Dolhr) that could have set them back considerably.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think Valantia might be a relatively more advanced continent. It may have only two countries but those countries spawn the entire continent whereas in Archenea half of the world has yet to be civilized and even Elibe has some portions of the map were no nation has really settled yet. Valentia also seems to have a bigger sprinkle of ''Greece'' into them at times, something Archenea has too but to a lesser extend. 

Two dragons guiding the continent may also help more with development than dragons mostly dying out or forming an empire to take over the world. 

Depending on how big the continent is, the idea of a water sluice travelling along the entire breadth of it, big enough to flood almost the entire southern half, puts them on a technological level comparable to the modern world, if not beyond. That's a serious construction feet that only the gods could create. Even if the continent is only the size of Ireland, it's still mad impressive considering the sheer size of the thing from that one graphic.

[Hawkwing]

41 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Depending on how big the continent is, the idea of a water sluice travelling along the entire breadth of it, big enough to flood almost the entire southern half, puts them on a technological level comparable to the modern world, if not beyond. That's a serious construction feet that only the gods could create. Even if the continent is only the size of Ireland, it's still mad impressive considering the sheer size of the thing from that one graphic.

Looking at the cutscene picture again, that thing is HUGE. I thought that the comments of it being able to flood Zofia were there just to build needless drama in the original gaiden, but those statements make a lot more sense in echoes. Though, not gonna lie, I do question what purpose the Sluice gate is meant to serve, especially since it makes a very good target for terrorism, and is a very powerful bargaining chip for bandits or military ("give us our demands, or we'll flood the kingdom!")

Considering how much power is made by dams, it wouldn't surprise me that by the time the world of Archanea discovers electricity, Valentia won't be needing to rely on natural resources for their electricity anytime soon (which, incidentally, would mean that the country/continent won't suffer from much pollution (meaning some parts of landscape would be largely unaffected, with land for good natural parks which creates tourist), and it can put many of it's natural resources to a different use. It's small, but it's something to think about).

[Jotari]

7 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

Looking at the cutscene picture again, that thing is HUGE. I thought that the comments of it being able to flood Zofia were there just to build needless drama in the original gaiden, but those statements make a lot more sense in echoes. Though, not gonna lie, I do question what purpose the Sluice gate is meant to serve, especially since it makes a very good target for terrorism, and is a very powerful bargaining chip for bandits or military ("give us our demands, or we'll flood the kingdom!")

Considering how much power is made by dams, it wouldn't surprise me that by the time the world of Archanea discovers electricity, Valentia won't be needing to rely on natural resources for their electricity anytime soon (which, incidentally, would mean that the country/continent won't suffer from much pollution (meaning some parts of landscape would be largely unaffected, with land for good natural parks which creates tourist), and it can put many of it's natural resources to a different use. It's small, but it's something to think about).

I'm guessing it's not easy to really flood the kingdom with it. Rigel did try and fail after all. It would probably take straight up siege weaponry to take down. As for it's purpose, well Mila is said to give them all good crops and there is an alleged drout plaguing them. Perhaps the power of the goddess is merely a really good irigation system and the people running Mila's temple are just too stubborn to actually give the land water witout royal or divine approval.

[Hawkwing]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm guessing it's not easy to really flood the kingdom with it. Rigel did try and fail after all. It would probably take straight up siege weaponry to take down. As for it's purpose, well Mila is said to give them all good crops and there is an alleged drout plaguing them. Perhaps the power of the goddess is merely a really good irigation system and the people running Mila's temple are just too stubborn to actually give the land water witout royal or divine approval.

Wasn't it held by the Duma faithful, and not the Rigel military? I haven't played the game in a few months, so I can't quite remember. Anyway, I do agree that it would take siege weaponry, powerful magic and explosives to put a hole in the gate. Maybe the fear is not that the gate will be destroyed, but that Taharra will release more water than safely regulated and flood as much of the land as he can.