Class names that don't make sense?

[Landmaster]

Most obviously are all of the "Falcon" ones~ 

[DisobeyedCargo]

6 hours ago, Landmaster said:

Most obviously are all of the "Falcon" ones~ 

In Fates this is somewhat addressed. according to a convo between Subaki and Selena, the mounts are called Falicorns. So it “somewhat” makes sense I guess?

i guess unicorn knight didn’t have quite the same ring?

[Landmaster]

2 hours ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

In Fates this is somewhat addressed. according to a convo between Subaki and Selena, the mounts are called Falicorns. So it “somewhat” makes sense I guess?

i guess unicorn knight didn’t have quite the same ring?

Well, I actually like the name, it just always struck me as odd especially since Dark Flier wasn't called Falcon in Awakening but it was in Fates, but the Falicorn thing does make some sense~ I do think Unicorn Knight would have sounded pretty strange so I'm actually glad they went with Falcon XD

[Slumber]

On 8/6/2018 at 10:24 PM, Light Strategist said:

Whisper
Is that an instruction?

A "Whisper" can also be a noun. If somebody is being referred to as a Whisper, it's pretty easy to understand what that means. 

As to why they changed it from "Spy"? Probably sounded too mundane. But the name makes sense. 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Slumber

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Slumber said:

A "Whisper" can also be a noun. If somebody is being referred to as a Whisper, it's pretty easy to understand what that means. 

As to why they changed it from "Spy"? Probably sounded too mundane. But the name makes sense. 

Well on that note it wasn't straight up Spy in Japanese either, it was espion, the French for spy (like espionage), which I think would have been suitable non-mundane for an English translation.

[Slumber]

30 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well on that note it wasn't straight up Spy in Japanese either, it was espion, the French for spy (like espionage), which I think would have been suitable non-mundane for an English translation.

Have we ever had classes that were just normal words, but in other languages? I don't think we have. 

Espion would have been weird. Whisper is at least an intriguing choice that isn't just a word in another language. 

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Slumber said:

Have we ever had classes that were just normal words, but in other languages? I don't think we have. 

Espion would have been weird. Whisper is at least an intriguing choice that isn't just a word in another language. 

Before Radiant Dawn, not really, aside from some of the monster classes, I think. But since then we've gotten quite a few, mostly from the Hoshido Classes and Overclasses.

Also, compared to some other third tier classes, Vanguard, Sentinel, Light Priestess (Shaman in Japanese, a tier 1 class in Jugdral), I don't think Spy is all that mundane.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Jotari

[Slumber]

24 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Before Radiant Dawn, not really, aside from some of the monster classes, I think. But since then we've gotten quite a few, mostly from the Hoshido Classes and Overclasses.

Also, compared to other third tier classes, Vanguard, Sentinel, Light Priestess (Shaman in Japanese, a tier 1 class in Jugdral), I don't think spy is all that mundane.

Vanguard and Sentinel are two big mainstays in RPG and fantasy terminology already, though.

Nobody in fantasy is just a "Spy". Usually there's some sort of other descriptor attached that gives it flair. Light Priestess is pretty literal, but again, it's not like Priestesses as a class/term aren't common as a whole in these type of setting.

When it's coming to just using "Spy" by itself, I'm pretty sure in the west we associate that with very modern sensibilities, which is why it seems a lot more mundane, and probably why they didn't use it.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Slumber

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Vanguard and Sentinel are two big mainstays in RPG and fantasy terminology already, though.

Nobody in fantasy is just a "Spy". Usually there's some sort of other descriptor attached that gives it flair. Light Priestess is pretty literal, but again, it's not like Priestesses as a class/term aren't common as a whole in these type of setting.

When it's coming to just using "Spy" by itself, I'm pretty sure in the west we associate that with very modern sensibilities, which is why it seems a lot more mundane, and probably why they didn't use it.

Even Sentinel was considered mundane over here in Europe where the class was renamed Lancer (albeit, that was closer the the Japanese name Holy Lancer).

[Tolvir]

Tbh, General was kind of a silly name. General is the name of a high ranking member in a military, but apparently FE militaries have tons of generals, so many in fact that they just field them as cannon fodder for the meat grinder.

Halberdier is a funny one, considering they dont even use a halberd. But it works well enough considering they still use pole arms, so its less of an extreme one.

Never was a fan of Gold Knight as a name for tier 3 Paladins. Crusader or maybe Paladin Elite or something would be better. Gold Knight just feels weird when going from Cavalier to Paladin to Gold Knight. Hell, I would take Knight in Shining Armor.

[NinjaMonkey]

On 8/11/2018 at 5:28 AM, Light Strategist said:

I did specifically state 'Combat Practice'. Launching fireballs at scarecrows is one thing but hitting moving targets is another.

That still doesn't make it not make sense. Learning to launch fireballs at moving targets is the next step in the learning process after you've mastered stationary targets after all...

Edited September 11, 2018 by NinjaMonkey

[Thinks Their Own Way]

Hero and Warrior doesn't make much sense to me when thinking about it because every unit is a Hero or Warrior in their own right.

[NinjaMonkey]

To be fair, when someone says "Warrior" to me, I do envision some guy with big muscles carrying either an axe or a large sword, so I don't think that it's all that nonsensical.

Edited September 24, 2018 by NinjaMonkey

[Jingle Jangle]

• Mechanist: There are not too many machines in the Fates world, puppeteer would sound better.
• Master Ninja: It sounds strange to me, I would prefer Jonin or elite ninja.
• Oliphantier: So if 'Oliphant' was an old word for elephant, but the mount doesn't look anything like an elephant.
• Free Knight: I don't understand what makes them "free". Something along the lines of sellsword sounds nice.

[Jotari]

18 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

• Mechanist: There are not too many machines in the Fates world, puppeteer would sound better.
• Master Ninja: It sounds strange to me, I would prefer Jonin or elite ninja.
• Oliphantier: So if 'Oliphant' was an old word for elephant, but the mount doesn't look anything like an elephant.
• Free Knight: I don't understand what makes them "free". Something along the lines of sellsword sounds nice.

Well the horse does have armour to make it resemble an elephant, and the statue you promote into the class from does clearly show an elephant, so that's more of a case of them using the sacred powers of the legendary warrior, but lacking the actual animal to complete the job (as that would be too drastic a change for a promotion I guess).

Also I'm totally going to steal Jonin for my class tree.

[Slumber]

28 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

• Free Knight: I don't understand what makes them "free". Something along the lines of sellsword sounds nice.

It's weird, but it makes sense to me.

They're Mercenaries on horses, and they're meant to be the sword counterpart to Bow Knights(Bows), Axe/Great Knights(Axes) and... Knights/Cavaliers(Lances). It seems they want to keep with the "Knight" naming theme.

Makes more sense than when Mercenaries/Heroes were fan translated as Forests, and their mounted equivalents were "Forest Knights". The "Free" part of the name at least alludes to the fact that, as Mercenaries on Horses, they lack the allegiance that other Knights have. They're "Free" Knights, and they can fight for whoever they want to.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Slumber

[Moblin Major General]

3 hours ago, Slumber said:

It's weird, but it makes sense to me.

They're Mercenaries on horses, and they're meant to be the sword counterpart to Bow Knights(Bows), Axe/Great Knights(Axes) and... Knights/Cavaliers(Lances). It seems they want to keep with the "Knight" naming theme.

Makes more sense than when Mercenaries/Heroes were fan translated as Forests, and their mounted equivalents were "Forest Knights". The "Free" part of the name at least alludes to the fact that, as Mercenaries on Horses, they lack the allegiance that other Knights have. They're "Free" Knights, and they can fight for whoever they want to.

Were it not the name of a very powerful and iconic unit later on in the series, I would say they could be called black knights. They don't wear black necessarily, but they lack heraldry, meaning they lack allegiance, which is shameful in chivalry. Beowulf and Ares (who actually wears black) are definitely somewhat honorable, but they have no actual loyalties, not even to their mercenary bands.

[Tetragrammaton]

On 9/26/2018 at 12:10 AM, Hylian Air Force said:

Were it not the name of a very powerful and iconic unit later on in the series, I would say they could be called black knights. They don't wear black necessarily, but they lack heraldry, meaning they lack allegiance, which is shameful in chivalry. Beowulf and Ares (who actually wears black) are definitely somewhat honorable, but they have no actual loyalties, not even to their mercenary bands.

Aless is not Free Knight, he is a Cross Knight

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 9/25/2018 at 9:38 AM, Jingle Jangle said:

Master Ninja: It sounds strange to me, I would prefer Jonin or elite ninja.

Jounin is the Japanese apparently. This might have been a case where they should have left the Japanese untranslated, like they did with Onmyoji.

Another case they changed is Shura to Oni Chieftain. Shura I think is a Japanese word for demon. Probably from looking at it, it'd be the Hindu "Ashura" having reached Japan via Buddhism, which might make room for Ashuras I think. Shura sounds cooler, and Chieftain adds a leadership aspect that doesn't actually exist in the Japanese. They prolly changed it because Shura the character.

On 9/25/2018 at 9:38 AM, Jingle Jangle said:

Mechanist: There are not too many machines in the Fates world, puppeteer would sound better.

Which is what the Japanese is here too, or so I think from one thing I saw.

 

46 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

Aless is not Free Knight, he is a Cross Knight

You mean Cavalier. Cross Knight refers to the elite cavalry forces of Agustria, like the various -Ritters of Grannvale and Leonster, the Cross Knights were long exterminated by the time Ares is recruited.

"Cross Knights" sound okay to me, but I'd thinking IS will localize their names as something else when FE4 eventually gets remade. The "Cross" here obviously refers to Christianity, and even ignoring how this wouldn't be exotic to Western ears, it is out of place in Jugdral, since Christianity doesn't exist there and it has its own totally different religion devoid of crucifixes.

"Crusaders" might be good replacement name. "Lion Knights", taking Eldigan's Lionheart title as the basis, would be another alternative I could see.

"Holy Knight" has the problem of referring to not just Agustria, but any soldier fighting for a noble cause, it'd make the Prologue title seem odd.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[Heruseus]

Great Lord. 

What?

It's just the same title with a new adjective, so why did they get the ability to access spears?

Also going from Nohr Prince/Princess to Nohrian Lord is a downgrade technically. 

[DisobeyedCargo]

40 minutes ago, Heruseus said:

Great Lord. 

What?

It's just the same title with a new adjective, so why did they get the ability to access spears?

Also going from Nohr Prince/Princess to Nohrian Lord is a downgrade technically. 

It’s not even Nohrian lord it’s Nohrian Noble which I think is even more of a downgrade 

[Jotari]

47 minutes ago, Heruseus said:

Great Lord. 

What?

It's just the same title with a new adjective, so why did they get the ability to access spears?

Also going from Nohr Prince/Princess to Nohrian Lord is a downgrade technically. 

Maybe like politically, but I see it as symbolic of Corrin forging their own identity. After all, they've always been a prince/ss, and a prince/ss only gets their powers due to who's child they are. But a lord is like a king, even if they inherited their position, they're still ruling on their own authority. Corrin is a more selfrealized individual after promotion. They've been accepted into Hoshido/Nohr society, not based on their family but based on their character and actions. Kind of like Ike's promotion to lord only without a choreographed story scene (this especially works thematically in Birthrigh where they go from Nohr Prince/ss to Hoshido Noble. It kind of does fall apart in Revelations though given Corrin isn't aligned with either yet can promote to either. Bust most things fall apart in Revelations anyway). At least, that's the way I've always naturally interpreted it.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Jotari

[Heruseus]

28 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Maybe like politically, but I see it as symbolic of Corrin forging their own identity. After all, they've always been a prince/ss, and a prince/ss only gets their powers due to who's child they are. But a lord is like a king, even if they inherited their position, they're still ruling on their own authority. Corrin is a more selfrealized individual after promotion. They've been accepted into Hoshido/Nohr society, not based on their family but based on their character and actions. Kind of like Ike's promotion to lord only without a choreographed story scene (this especially works thematically in Birthrigh where they go from Nohr Prince/ss to Hoshido Noble. It kind of does fall apart in Revelations though given Corrin isn't aligned with either yet can promote to either. Bust most things fall apart in Revelations anyway). At least, that's the way I've always naturally interpreted it.

Yeah I suppose I've never thought about it like that. 

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

14 hours ago, Heruseus said:

Also going from Nohr Prince/Princess to Nohrian Lord is a downgrade technically. 

Apparently the Japanese is closer to "Dark Blood" and "White Blood". Nobility does have a blood association, to the point of being a synonym in "Blue Blood" so the choice of the word "Noble" makes sense. Although it might not have to be seen as so, the blood of Nohr/Hoshido courses through Corrin's veins doesn't require a noble connotation, much the same as one IRL could say British blood flows through their veins, even if they aren't nobility at all.

 

13 hours ago, Jotari said:

It kind of does fall apart in Revelations though given Corrin isn't aligned with either yet can promote to either. Bust most things fall apart in Revelations anyway). At least, that's the way I've always naturally interpreted it.

Corrin on Rev having the choice to freely go back and forth between Nohr and Hoshidan Nobles is symbolic of their willingness to not have to choose between one or the other, but wanting both.

[Jotari]

14 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Corrin on Rev having the choice to freely go back and forth between Nohr and Hoshidan Nobles is symbolic of their willingness to not have to choose between one or the other, but wanting both.

Well yeah, but literally speaking, they're not actually a noble of Hoshido or Nohr in Revelations (just like say...I don't know, Selena, isn't literally a Mercenary), while they easily could be in Birthright or Conquest (even if we don't see it happen because the promotion isn't tied to the plot).

Edited September 27, 2018 by Jotari