What unit is the worst of their class?

[Fire Emblem Fan]

11 hours ago, Mad-manakete said:

I'm going to debate Python on account of the fact that, despite his flaws, Gaiden/Echoes archers have the advantage of being able to attack from further away than other archers in the series and actually having a enemy phase. This plus their bow knight promotion make even a bad one useful, moreso in echoes with the Killer Bow. To that effect, I'm inclined to say the ones who lack an attack phase are (usually) worse, simply because working them into a strategy can make them an outright liability.

Ah, yeah, that makes sense. My other choice would be Setsuna, and given that argument for Python, I'd say she's worse.

On the subject of mounted archers, I'd have to say Radiant Dawn Astrid.

[ping]

46 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Sue and Shin from FE6 come to mind. Like most early game Archers, Sue has weak hits and Shin is just slightly better Sue, which isn't saying much. It's like the main reason i could never go to the Sacae route (though given the horror stories i hear about it, i don't want to). 

Sue and Shin are both pretty valid, though. HM!Shin in particular - almost as fast as Astore, fairly good bulk, and fast XP gain due to his low base level. Sue is indeed a bit shaky in terms of Str, but that mostly just makes it a bit harder to feed her kills against non-flying, non-magical units. As soon as Killer bows (and then Silver bows) are available, her offense is quite fine. She's not as good as Shin, of course, but she's still an above-average bow user with a pony in a game where bow userss are actually good to have around.

[Shadow Mir]

43 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Ah, yeah, that makes sense. My other choice would be Setsuna, and given that argument for Python, I'd say she's worse.

On the subject of mounted archers, I'd have to say Radiant Dawn Astrid.

Would you say she's even worse than PoR Rolf?

[Slumber]

14 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Vyland or Fiona are for sure the worst cavaliers, and Gareth is for sure the worst shape-shifting character. I wanna say either Arden or Gwendolyn for knights, Arden just because he's ridiculously hard to actually use and Gwendolyn just because she's plain bad. For mercenaries I have to give it to Caeser, and for myrmidons I'd have to give it to Radd. For thieves Rickard, for pegasus knights either Est or Juno, and for wyvern riders maybe Zeiss or Percy. Definitely Bord or Cord for fighters, Aran for soldiers, Darros for pirates, and Sophia for dark mages. For mages, I'm kinda thinking Luthier, and for archers I feel like maybe Python.

I'm gonna argue a few of these. 

Arden's arguably better than Hannibal, another knight from the same game. Arden's not good, but he's more usable in parts of the prolog and chapter 1, then he gets his ass stuck on a castle. Hannibal is pretty much on castle duty immediately, and has no practical uses outside of this. 

I've already gone over Zeiss. Hard more Zeiss is absolutely insane, and joins with the bases of a moderately trained promoted unit, despite being a low leveled unpromoted unit, on top of having Est growths. Percy really depends on his mother. 

Cord's alright, Bord and Wade(Another Bord) are much less arguable, and are absolutely awful. 

Darros is actually pretty decent in FE1/SD, a bit less so than in NM. He might be the worst on technicality, but if you roll in Berserkers, I'd argue Largo or Dozla as worse. 

I'm gonna go out on a limb and actually say Aran is the best Soldier in FE10. On normal mode, at least, he's a pretty vital part of the army, being the only capable tank that you have consistently through DB chapters. Compared to Nephenee, who is built like a Myrmidon in segments that don't need more speedsters, and Danved who... Is good against magic? Hard Mode is a different story, as Aran really is just one Speed point shy of being the same tank he is in NM, but without it, he's doubled and taking damage on par with everyone else. But at least he still shines in NM. Nephenee and Danved still struggle to fit roles in their armies regardless of the mode. 

Luthier is far from the worst mage when units like Ilyana, FE10 Tormod, Nino, and Ewan exist. Luthier's... Middling, but usable and reliable. Compared to the 4 I just mentioned, who require substantial favoritism and babying to even be semi-usable. 

Archers have Leonardo. Python can't be the worst by default. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Slumber

[Shadow Mir]

6 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I'm gonna argue a few of these. 

Arden's arguably better than Hannibal, another knight from the same game. Arden's not good, but he's more usable in parts of the prolog and chapter 1, then he gets his ass stuck on a castle. Hannibal is pretty much on castle duty immediately, and has no practical uses outside of this. 

I've already gone over Zeiss. Hard more Zeiss is absolutely insane, and joins with the bases of a moderately trained promoted unit, despite being a low leveled unpromoted unit, on top of having Est growths. Percy really depends on his mother. 

Cord's alright, Bord and Wade(Another Bord) are much less arguable, and are absolutely awful. 

Darros is actually pretty decent in FE1/SD, a bit less so than in NM. He might be the worst on technicality, but if you roll in Berserkers, I'd argue Largo or Dozla as worse. 

I'm gonna go out on a limb and actually say Aran is the best Soldier in FE10. On normal mode, at least, he's a pretty vital part of the army, being the only capable tank that you have consistently through DB chapters. Compared to Nephenee, who is built like a Myrmidon in segments that don't need more speedsters, and Danved who... Is good against magic? Hard Mode is a different story, as Aran really is just one Speed point being shy of being the same tank he is in NM, but without it, he's doubled and taking damage on parts with everyone else. Nephenee and Danved still struggle to fit roles in their armies. 

Luthier is far from the worst mage when units like Ilyana, FE10 Tormod, Nino, and Ewan exist. Luthier's... Middling, but usable and reliable. Compared to the 4 I just mentioned, who require substantial favoritism and babying to even be semi-usable. 

Archers have Leonardo. Python can't be the worst by default. 

I'd say Yubello is worse off than the mages you mentioned, or at least Ilyana. Also, Orochi.

I'd also disagree on Leonardo - I'd say PoR Rolf is easily worse off.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Wuzzy]

10 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

Wow, I'd never thought I'd see the day when someone else agrees with me on this. Everyone I know says Rolf is the best Archer in PoR.

Tell your friends to use PoR Astrid :c She's probably one of the best archers in the franchise imo (granted she has a horse so, I guess you could separate Bow Knights from just Archers)

[Garlyle]

4 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I would disagree since the only feasible way to train her, ironically, involves deploying the other two armours. The fact that I have to deploy two more bad units on her behalf speaks volumes... I might as well feed them to Bors or Barth if I needed to go that far.

I did that support triangle once, but Lilina is also a viable support for her. I feel like the game is even suggesting this to me, because they both have a lot of training ahead of them, but at least Lilina can start earlier. Having the 3 armor knight can be fun only in normal mode, we probably wouldn't use any of them in hard mode.

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

I've actually tried this but it just isn't worth it at all. I feel like i shouldn't be saying that training a bad unit isn't worth it because i'm the guy that always trains Sophia but the difference between Sophia and Wendy is that the former can at least have a niche role in Dark Magic since there's only three of them in the game whereas the latter gets outclassed by every Lance user, of which there is a lot of. Also the fact that by the time you do recruit Sophia, it's possible that you have a decent amount of stat boosters that you can use on her (which is what i do) whereas you probably don't have nearly as much to use on Wendy.

Honestly, Ch.8x is better off as the Lilina training ground. It's much easier to train Lilina, especially with the super easy Support Bonuses she gets from Roy.

There are a lot of sword and lance users, you probably need more than one. I think out of Sophia and Wendy, Wendy has better chances to become a better character. She joins earlier, and her growth rates are better balanced. If it comes to stat boosting, I'd do the same thing for both of them: 1 Secret Book at the beginning, because their Skill just doesn't cut at the time they join, also Sophia gets speed penalty for using any of the tomes. Yeah, I'd rather buy more lances. Some people say Sophia is better, because she can get a Guiding Ring for you, but that's the only good thing I got from her.

Lilina is good if she's Lv.8 by the end of Ch.8x.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Garlyle

[Shadow Mir]

21 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

I did that support triangle once, but Lilina is also a viable support for her. I feel like the game is even suggesting this to me, because they both have a lot of training ahead of them, but at least Lilina can start earlier. Having the 3 armor knight can be fun only in normal mode, we probably wouldn't use any of them in hard mode.

There are a lot of sword and lance users, you probably need more than one. I think out of Sophia and Wendy, Wendy has better chances to become a better character. She joins earlier, and her growth rates are better balanced. If it comes to stat boosting, I'd do the same thing for both of them: 1 Secret Book at the beginning, because their Skill just doesn't cut at the time they join, also Sophia gets speed penalty for using any of the tomes. Yeah, I'd rather buy more lances. Some people say Sophia is better, because she can get a Guiding Ring for you, but that's the only good thing I got from her.

Lilina is good if she's Lv.8 by the end of Ch.8x.

I wasn't referring to the support triangle. I meant the triangle attack (good luck finding opportunities to have all three armors in positions where they can surround an enemy unit).

Well, that's pretty obvious, but choosing Wendy on the fact that you need more lances is easily scraping the bottom of the barrel. Also, trying to have Wendy get kills in an axe-heavy segment of the game ain't my idea of fun.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Armagon]

2 hours ago, Garlyle said:

There are a lot of sword and lance users, you probably need more than one.

Yeah but why Wendy? Knights suck in FE6 anyway, if i really wanted to use one, i'd just wait for Douglas to join.

2 hours ago, Garlyle said:

I think out of Sophia and Wendy, Wendy has better chances to become a better character. She joins earlier, and her growth rates are better balanced.

Wendy's join time and growth rates are better but i still find it much easier to train Sophia. Ch.14x is the Sophia training ground because there's a Druid with Eclipse (a.k.a the worst tome in the game) and some Archers and what i like to do is just surround these guys and have Sophia chip away at them until they are dead. Even if she doesn't kill them right away, she gets EXP just for trying and there's no risk of her getting attacked since that Druid and the Archers can't fight back at 1-range. By the time i'm done with the map, Sophia's at around Lv.8. It takes a while and it's not ideal for those playing for rank but i still find it way easier than training Wendy.

That's on Normal btw. I haven't done any of this on Hard because the first few levels of Hard Mode Binding Blade are actual bullshit.

2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I wasn't referring to the support triangle. I meant the triangle attack (good luck finding opportunities to have all three armors in positions where they can surround an enemy unit).

Who actually uses the Triangle Attack unironically?

[Fire Emblem Fan]

5 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Would you say she's even worse than PoR Rolf?

He's pretty bad, but I think I'd rather use him than Setsuna. 

 

[Shadow Mir]

10 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

He's pretty bad, but I think I'd rather use him than Setsuna. 

 

My issue with Rolf is that by the time he joins, he can barely tickle anything that isn't a mage or doesn't have wings. Not helping is that he's in a game with only a 2x effective multiplier.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[DarkDestr0yer61]

4 hours ago, Slumber said:

Ilyana, FE10 Tormod, Nino, and Ewan exist.

I have to disagree with the fact that you put Ilyana on about the same levels as the latter 3. She joins that a decent time in Path of Radiance and is using the best magic type (if not best, the 2nd best). And in Radiant Dawn she has good availability even if her weapon type is one of the worst. The other ones you mentioned are a bit underleveled and have poor availability in comparison

[DragonFlames]

11 hours ago, Lunarly said:

Tell your friends to use PoR Astrid :c She's probably one of the best archers in the franchise imo (granted she has a horse so, I guess you could separate Bow Knights from just Archers)

Speaking of Astrid, Radiant Dawn Astrid is so terrible, it's hilarious. Terrible availability, terrible bases for her level and thus next to non-existent damage output in part due to very few enemy fliers... at least she has Paragon naturally, I guess?

I never really used Astrid in PoR because she combines my two least favourite classes (Cavalier and Archer) and because she starts at level 1 when some of my units are already getting close to promotion. Paragon helps, I guess, but I'll need to give her a try someday.

Speaking of Cavaliers, who is the worst Cavalier? My vote would go to Matthis in FE11 and 12, though honestly, those two Wolfguard scrubs could count, too (Roshea and Vyland that is).

[Garlyle]

11 hours ago, Armagon said:

Wendy's join time and growth rates are better but i still find it much easier to train Sophia. Ch.14x is the Sophia training ground because there's a Druid with Eclipse (a.k.a the worst tome in the game) and some Archers and what i like to do is just surround these guys and have Sophia chip away at them until they are dead. Even if she doesn't kill them right away, she gets EXP just for trying and there's no risk of her getting attacked since that Druid and the Archers can't fight back at 1-range. By the time i'm done with the map, Sophia's at around Lv.8. It takes a while and it's not ideal for those playing for rank but i still find it way easier than training Wendy.

That's on Normal btw. I haven't done any of this on Hard because the first few levels of Hard Mode Binding Blade are actual bullshit.

And honestly I'd rather wait for Niime than training Sophia again. But that's fine by me, both Wendy and Sophia are difficult units, but both of them get some love. For the record I had more resets when I trained Sophia, less when I trained Wendy. And I agree, in my opinion the first 2/3 of the game is difficult, giving extra difficulty to the first 1/3 on Hard. Earlypromotes and HM bonuses for the go.

Ontopic, I don't think there is a thief as bad as Cath. Late join, bad stats, no promote, better alternatives.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Garlyle

[The Roger The Paladin]

21 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

As for the topic itself, I would say Gerome, but that's from personal experience and getting unlucky with the child mechanic. It's just the fact that he's been consistently poor among all my playthroughs (when other characters have ranged from bad to gamebreaking) that I raise an eyebrow on his usefulness.

Gerome gets screwed over hard in that a lot of the other children have some way of accessing galeforce, and the ones who don't suffer harshly if you work it on everyone possible.

[Ertrick36]

12 hours ago, Armagon said:

Who actually uses the Triangle Attack unironically?

I used the armor knights' Triangle Attack on the level the other two joined to whittle down the boss for Lilina to kill.

Granted, I simply didn't think to just have Lilina attack and then rescue her out of the boss's Javelin range after each attack, but Bors did a megaton of damage and always hit even though he normally would have a hit rate of, like, 15 on the guy.  If nothing else, it's great for guaranteeing strikes on dodgy bosses.

Though aside from in the Archanea/Valentia games, I don't use the Triangle Attack often.  I prefer to have diverse teams, which is partly why I even would bring armor knights along in FE6: The Binding Armors.  I hardly ever would bring three units of the same class on as a primary team.  And because of this, I know the pain of trying to use Valbar in the desert arc first-hand.

18 hours ago, Armagon said:

Sue and Shin from FE6 come to mind. Like most early game Archers, Sue has weak hits and Shin is just slightly better Sue, which isn't saying much.

I prefer them to the actual archers in that game.

Though I tend to always prefer the mounted archers.  And that means that, yes, I'm one of the people who actually likes using Kinshi Knights.

3 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

Speaking of Cavaliers, who is the worst Cavalier? My vote would go to Matthis in FE11 and 12, though honestly, those two Wolfguard scrubs could count, too (Roshea and Vyland that is).

As much of a meme as Matthis is, several here have already made the case for why Vyland is the worst.  You'd really have to be scraping the bottom of the barrel if you're gunning for him.

[Hawkwing]

50 minutes ago, Mad-manakete said:

Gerome gets screwed over hard in that a lot of the other children have some way of accessing galeforce, and the ones who don't suffer harshly if you work it on everyone possible.

I've never actually gotten Galeforce ONCE in all of my playthroughs of Awakening. I'm not that good at using pegasus knights in general (except in Gaiden/Echoes, because their bow weakness isn't as strong in that game, and neither are they delicate), and I never saw the point of using the dark fliers over the falcon knights. That, and getting to level 15 on any advanced unit takes much longer than I'd like.

Ironically, both Laurent and Yarne, who's parents can't get galeforce, end of being my top performing child units nearly every time (well, okay, I just make Laurent a magic nuke, which isn't that hard considering his mother is one of the best magic users in the game, and Yarnes usefulness ranges between playthroughs, with some of said usefullness comes from the existence of reclassing and the fact that I enjoy using Panne as a unit. Still, I ain't complaining when he becomes a one-man army), while Gerome, for some reason, always ends up with mediocre-to-poor stats on every playthrough for me. I can understand him turning out poor once or twice, but since it's happened to me every time, I start to raise questions on his viability as a unit as well as why the child mechanics have to be so damn complicated at times.

[Moblin Major General]

Maybe Gerome would be better if his mom had something other than 2 healing classes as reclassing options.

[Shadow Mir]

Worst Wyvern Rider.... In spite of Slumber's case for him, I say Zeiss takes it. At the end of the day, he's still an underleveled late joiner. And I would say that Subaki is the worst Pegasus Knight.

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 3/18/2018 at 10:19 PM, Armagon said:

Nomah is by far the series' worst Sage, especially in Gaiden. Low bases, hits like paper. Just plain awful.

I might argue Boey isn't that much better. Boey is slow, not particularly strong, and takes eons to learn Excalibur, the only really good spell he gets. Nomah just picks up where Boey is likely leaving off.

 

On 3/19/2018 at 10:45 AM, Armagon said:

Is he actually? All i saw was a terrible Archer with a weak-ass bow. You'd think that a personal weapon would be good but it's just a personalized Iron Bow. I suppose it is good that it actually speeds up his Weapon EXP faster than usual but it'd be a lot more useful if Rolf didn't hit like paper but that seems to be a trait shared among most early game Archers, to the point that i just bench them and wait for the Sniper to join the army.

But hey, maybe i'm wrong. Perhaps Rolf is the best Archer in PoR but i'll never know because the USB containing the game's files somehow literally fell apart.

PoR 20/15 Averages:

Rolf:

HP 40.8

Str 21.2

Mag 8.6

Skl 24.85

Spd 24.5

Lck 17.2

Def 17.9

Res 12.25

Shinon:

Lv 15

HP 42.5

Str 18.1

Mag 8.8

Skl 24.8

Spd 22.1

Lck 13.9

Def 16

Res 11.6

Shinon has great growths actually, but the bases of this level 1 Sniper are that of a ~10 Archer, which severely hurt him and make Rolf better. His poor bases upon rejoining make training Rolf not so bad, both mono-bows need heavy investing and Rolf gets significantly more time to do something with the training.

Archers and bows are just terrible in PoR, Astrid wants Lances/Axes and to almost forget she has a Bow rank on promotion (and she is easier to train). 

 

On 3/19/2018 at 1:16 PM, Armagon said:

And while it's not horseback, Reina is the worst of class but that's because she's the only one, unless you promote Takumi into a Kinshi Knight but why would you, Kinshi Knights suck.

Reina is a rather balanced-ish Jagen, if the only one in her class. Shoddy hit, fragile defensively, only average Str, and her Yumi rank starts low. But highly mobile, her offense is decent (she should just be able to ORKO things with a little Str stacking), and she will always double attack. Balanced for a Jagen.

 

On 3/19/2018 at 4:32 PM, Slumber said:

Archers have Leonardo. Python can't be the worst by default. 

Leonardo has good endgame potential and is okay with Lughnasdh before that. That could arguably said to be more than PoR Shinon, whose earlygame contributions aren't necessarily great since Titania exists and she can delete everything in the chapters he exists. Leonardo's issues are: having Skl, Lck, Res as his highest growths (could they have picked a worse trio?), the DB not having many fliers to shoot down, the DB wanting durable units not ranged fragile ones, and the shortage of DB EXP. All serious issues, but he can possibly become more of a net positive than PoR Shinon, who admittedly would be easier to boost up with "just" an BEXP dump.

 

As for Rinkah, I'm not considering her good at all, but I think people underestimate Fiery Blood. If Rinkah loses just 1 HP, she gets +4 Atk, which seriously helps bolster her good class poor growth Str into usable levels (again, ignoring as an Oni her Speed is only average, her HP is low, and Skl is only average). 

[Armagon]

53 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I might argue Boey isn't that much better. Boey is slow, not particularly strong, and takes eons to learn Excalibur, the only really good spell he gets. Nomah just picks up where Boey is likely leaving off.

Boey isn't that great either but he's still got two full Acts to him before Nomah joins so there's enough time to make him decent if you wish and even if you don't want to go through all the effort, he's still useful early on. Whereas Nomah starts bad and stays bad the entire time and his growths are really bad.

[DragonFlames]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

Boey isn't that great either but he's still got two full Acts to him before Nomah joins so there's enough time to make him decent if you wish and even if you don't want to go through all the effort, he's still useful early on. Whereas Nomah starts bad and stays bad the entire time and his growths are really bad.

Mycen is in a similar pickle. He has Zeke and Mathilda to squabble with and I believe both of those two are better than Mycen by a mile to bring into Duma's dungeon. And that's not even talking about any Villager you might have made a Cavalier (though why would you on Alm's route when you get two perfectly fine ones later?) or even Randall, who you can recruit into Alm's squad if you so desire.

[Slumber]

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Leonardo has good endgame potential and is okay with Lughnasdh before that. That could arguably said to be more than PoR Shinon, whose earlygame contributions aren't necessarily great since Titania exists and she can delete everything in the chapters he exists. Leonardo's issues are: having Skl, Lck, Res as his highest growths (could they have picked a worse trio?), the DB not having many fliers to shoot down, the DB wanting durable units not ranged fragile ones, and the shortage of DB EXP. All serious issues, but he can possibly become more of a net positive than PoR Shinon, who admittedly would be easier to boost up with "just" an BEXP dump.

Giving Leonardo BEXP is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of. 

Units like Aran, Edward, Micaiah and Jill will cap-ram 2-4 stats well before hitting level 20, or at least soon enough to make decent use of BEXP, making them all ideal for BEXP to fix their most glaring issues(Speed for Aran, Defense for Edward, Micaiah for... Like, half of her stats, and Jill for... I guess whatever she's lacking in in any particular run). Leonardo's much less likely to cap many stats(Res and Skill are most likely) assuming he gets any levels in the first place, to really cap ram anything, meaning you're wasting valuable BEXP that could go towards several other, actually potentially good units, just so Leonardo can simply catch up. To actually make him decent? He needs points speed(Lughnasdh is only going to carry him so far before this becomes a huge problem for him, and he'll struggle heavily until this point), defense, a lot of HP and moderate strength to fix his most glaring issues. Unfortunately, the stat he's most likely to get once he caps skill and res? Luck, the absolute BANE of BEXP. The only reason Micaiah is a BEXP candidate despite her luck eating good level ups is because she's forced throughout the entire game. Leonardo, meanwhile, is flatout detrimental at that point. 

Say what you will about Shinon or Rolf(Both of whom are actually amazing in RD, making Leonard highly redundant on top of just being bad) in PoR, at least they don't potentially take away from better units. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by Slumber

[The Roger The Paladin]

1 hour ago, DragonFlames said:

Mycen is in a similar pickle. He has Zeke and Mathilda to squabble with and I believe both of those two are better than Mycen by a mile to bring into Duma's dungeon. And that's not even talking about any Villager you might have made a Cavalier (though why would you on Alm's route when you get two perfectly fine ones later?) or even Randall, who you can recruit into Alm's squad if you so desire.

God, for my last playthrough even Clive worked out better than Mycen just by virtue of more levels, and a bit of luck with his speed growths not being crap. That being said, I've successfully used Mycen in the final battle in both Echoes and OG Gaiden, so even if he's worse than the other options, he's not quite useless (mind you that can be said of arguably anyone)

 

4 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Giving Leonardo BEXP is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of. 

Units like Aran, Edward, Micaiah and Jill will cap-ram 2-4 stats well before hitting level 20, making them all ideal for BEXP to fix their most glaring issues(Speed for Aran, Defense for Edward, Micaiah for... Like, half of her stats, and Jill for... I guess whatever she's lacking in in any particular run). Leonardo's much less likely, assuming he gets any levels in the first place, to really cap ram anything, meaning you're wasting valuable BEXP that could go towards several other, actually potentially good units, just so Leonardo can simply catch up. He's flatout detrimental at that point. 

Say what you will about Shinon or Rolf(Both of whom are actually amazing in RD, making Leonard highly redundant on top of just being bad) in PoR, at least they don't potentially take away from better units. 

Which brings me back to why Meg is just as bad as Wendy. Even though you can BEXP her, why would you?

[DragonFlames]

1 hour ago, Mad-manakete said:

God, for my last playthrough even Clive worked out better than Mycen just by virtue of more levels, and a bit of luck with his speed growths not being crap. That being said, I've successfully used Mycen in the final battle in both Echoes and OG Gaiden, so even if he's worse than the other options, he's not quite useless (mind you that can be said of arguably anyone)

I have seen people say that Mycen's bases are actually enough to carry him through the final battle. But I always train Zeke and Mathilda up and they are both almost always stronger than him when I get him, so for me, there really isn't any point in using the guy other than the fact that I like his character.

1 hour ago, Mad-manakete said:

Which brings me back to why Meg is just as bad as Wendy. Even though you can BEXP her, why would you?

I know, right?
I once pumped my entire BEXP from Part 1 into Illyana (wait, that came out wrong). Combined with Paragon, Tormod's Movement+ skill and a bit of favouritism, I managed to get her to Archsage by Part 1-Final. Needless to say, she absolutely wrecked house once she joined up with Ike's gang. I've stuck with this method ever since, since I never really use anyone of the Dawn Brigade past Part 1 except Micaiah and Volug. The latter even has access to an easy exploit to gain levels once Part 3 comes around. Stick Wrath and Tauroneo's Personal Skill on him, keep him in human form and you can watch him mop the floor with any enemy laguz he comes across.