Is there any downside to using Killer Weapons?

[Faellin]

Since in fates, most of the strong weapons have some sort of downside like stat debuffs after combat, dodge penalty, or stat debuffs in general when its equiped.

 

But killer weapons seem to have no such thing for how good they are, their MT is pretty good, that +30 crit is quite strong. I know in past games they were balanced by having a low amount of uses, usually 30. But in fates with its unlimited use weapons. They seem kinda overpowered. In fact they aren't even that rare. Each route pretty much gives you 3-4 of each if you go for all the enemy drops / chests.

 

Is there any reason to not use them?

[ashlyn]

I don't really see a reason not to use them. Other than a little bit of a lower Mt than some of the other weapons, I don't see a downside. They can be really handy and it's quite fun to watch the characters demolish the enemies with them. They are pretty easy to obtain, as you said. I think you do generally get about 3 or 4 from each path, and maybe even more than that, if you do the Museum Melee DLC and happen to get some from it. 

[Nobody]

Not really. I guess there's few of them so you can't give them to everyone or get high forges, but other than that, there's no downside. 

[Shoblongoo]

The only "downside"  to using a killer weapon is the opportunity cost of the perks you would get in the alternative, from using a different weapon. (i.e. better hit or might. beastslaying. 1-2 range. stat buffs. weapon triangle reversal. etc.) 

I wouldn't say they're "overpowered," its not like nosferatu / brave weapons / spears / tomahawks in awakening, where if you're in a class that can use them and you have them, there's rarely going to be a reason to ever use anything else. 

The only time it feels a little scummy to me is when I have a berserker running around with an unbreakable killer axe and an 88% crit rate.

Even then--I'm often going to be switching over to forged iron for the hit rate, tomahawks for the 2-range reach, or dual club for the match-up vs. swords.

If anything; having what basically amounts to unbreakable swordreavers/lancereavers/axereavers feels a bit more busted to me.

Especially on the locked-to-one-weapon type classes (i.e. berserkers, swordmasters, spearmasters)

Lance knights counter myrmidons? Thats cute...

Edited March 19, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Kazuya]

There is no reason not to use them considering they aren't actual penalties to using them. Plus 14 is so easy everything will die to a crit. You are best off using them and nothing else till late game. 

 

If you are playing BR though, you don't need them, just use Ryouma. 

If you are playing trash (CQ), stop playing trash. 

Rev is just broken so really anything works. 

[Shadow Mir]

I'd say yes, because they're unreliable. Sure, the extra damage on crit sounds nice on paper, but in practice, it doesn't help much, unless you go out of your way to optimize your crit chance (and that's ignoring their being extravagant overkill if they do crit). They also have the might of unforged iron weapons, which isn't appealing. They're also unavailable on Birthright, for the most part. Long story short, you'd be better served by killer weapons in games other than this and Radiant Dawn. Oh, and a correction: killer weapons only have 25 crit.

15 minutes ago, Kazuya said:

There is no reason not to use them considering they aren't actual penalties to using them. Plus 14 is so easy everything will die to a crit. You are best off using them and nothing else till late game. 

 

If you are playing BR though, you don't need them, just use Ryouma. 

If you are playing trash (CQ), stop playing trash. 

Rev is just broken so really anything works. 

Lmfao. Relying on something that's barely any more reliable than a Scald burn won't take you far.

See above on Birthright.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Tables]

Firstly, let's just correct two small things. They do have a direct downside: -10 avoid. They also only give +25% crit, not +30%.

 

Statwise, they're worse than Iron weapons outside of crit rate, with -5 hit and -10 avoid in comparison, but equal mt. In exchange, you're getting +25% crit and an increased damage bonus for crits.

 

I recall finding them useful occasionally, basically when I didn't care about evasion and a crit kill would be nice, but in general they're not really much better than Iron weapons, if at all. I'd rather have an Iron Lance +1 than a Killer Lance for general purpose use, and that costs less money to buy as well.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Tables

[joshcja]

1 hour ago, Faellin said:

Since in fates, most of the strong weapons have some sort of downside like stat debuffs after combat, dodge penalty, or stat debuffs in general when its equiped.

 

But killer weapons seem to have no such thing for how good they are, their MT is pretty good, that +30 crit is quite strong. I know in past games they were balanced by having a low amount of uses, usually 30. But in fates with its unlimited use weapons. They seem kinda overpowered. In fact they aren't even that rare. Each route pretty much gives you 3-4 of each if you go for all the enemy drops / chests.

 

Is there any reason to not use them?

Extremely low MT compared to lightforge iron/steel/silver, and it's not a brave, reaver, bolt, or nos.

They're useful enough but they're not a general use weapon and effeciveness weaponry shares the niche.

As a note, some units can reach close to or 100% crit on lunatic no-grind (normally with a proc) so lightforge killers are a solid damage option on them in CQ/Rev in the lategame (still lower than brave on PP and not very cash efficent.).

Edited March 19, 2018 by joshcja

[Arden88888]

They have -10 avoid, a low might of 6 and a 25% crit chance but it has a 4X crit multiplier. In my experience though they rarely see use as reaver, brave, bane and breaker weapons are so powerful and combined with the lower HP of fates the higher chance of crits they provide are not as relevant as the bonus counter damage and the ability to strike up to 4 times (in my opinion).  

Edited March 19, 2018 by unabletofindaid

[Johnnie]

They're best used as the partner in Attack Stance. And the Killer Bow on a Kinshi Knight is always useful.

[Shoblongoo]

13 hours ago, Johnnie said:

They're best used as the partner in Attack Stance. And the Killer Bow on a Kinshi Knight is always useful.

^^^
I wholeheartedly agree with this.

I often find myself not actually using the killer weapon on player phase for the unit that's holding it. But having them attack with a different weapon. Then having a second unit move next them, and use "trade" to move the killer weapon to their active weapon slot before attacking for the dual strike.

The chance to have your partner land a 4x crit on dual strikes can actually give glass cannon attackers some semblance of an enemy phase, when dual-strike supporting a frontline tank. 

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Dark Holy Elf]

I find them highly situational. Sometimes fishing for crits is the best option, but usually not. They have lower might/hit than competition like forged iron, and I usually want to have at least one 1-2 range weapon and a bronze weapon on hand as well, plus weapon triangle control... and there are only so many inventory slots.

[iridium137]

The better question is, is there any upside to using killer weapons. All they offer is an unreliable 25 crit. The only time I ever use them is when I messed up, because I'm not aware of any situation where you have to bank on a crit. I'd much rather use forged bronze, effective weapons, ranged weapons, dual weapons, etc.

[Shadow Mir]

19 minutes ago, iridium137 said:

The better question is, is there any upside to using killer weapons. All they offer is an unreliable 25 crit. The only time I ever use them is when I messed up, because I'm not aware of any situation where you have to bank on a crit. I'd much rather use forged bronze, effective weapons, ranged weapons, dual weapons, etc.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Short of one situation in Conquest (the duel with Ryoma), I never found killer weapons worth it.

[starburst]

I like Killer Weapons, but they are only equipped by certain characters.

For example, the first Killer Bow is always given to Archer Mozu, who has overkill Skill, and a critical hit bonus once she is a Sniper. The second Killer Bow (from Shura) is given to Bow Knight Nina (Effie's daughter), who has way less Skill than Mozu but hits hard and doubles everything, and thus have many opportunities to deliver a critical hit.

The Mjölnir's go to Odin and Ophelia. Not that they really need them, but just so that their legend lives on.
I honestly believe that those two have an undisclosed innate critical hit bonus (in addition to their Personal Skills.) If a critical hit relies mostly on Skill,  then there is no way that Odin and, specially, Ophelia (who only has average Skill) can deliver more critical hits than Mozu throughout the game. It is as if their displayed critical hit chances had a +15 or something.
Precisely because of these two I had always thought that Luck also affected (the landing of) critical hits.

I know that both Sorcerer and Sniper have a critical hit bonus, but Odin and Ophelia land multiple critical hits as Dark Mages way before Mjölnir is available. Hell, Odin often delivers critical hits on Chapter 8, and some times Ophelia's first hit on her recruitment chapter (around Chapter 11-12) is a critical one!
Gee, personal experiences are not facts, but these two are so consistent at landing critical hits that I do not know what else to say.

The Killer Axe usually goes to Hero Velouria (Camilla's daughter), and a Killer Sword is given to Silas or Sophie, specially if they are Heroes, all of which have great Skill. And even though they land critical hits every now and then (specially on a large enemy phase), they are not as 'reliable' as Mozu or the mad mages. Thus I do not risk my chances in dangerous situations, and just let them kill or weaken the enemy with a stronger weapon.

Lastly, I rarely use the Killer Lance. Mainly because Effie, my main lance user, has average (or below) skill and can double considerably less enemies than most party members, thus she relies on a weapon's might rather than on its critical hit chance.

In the end, it all may be a matter of probability: I equip my high Skill (or mad) units with Killer Weapons in more phases than other users, and thus see more critical hits. And because I see the 'results', I think that Killer Weapons 'work' and keep them equipped. And the circle goes on.

Edited March 23, 2018 by starburst
Clarity and grammar.