What FE game should be Reworked?

[Guest Dreamyboi]

Hypothetically speaking if you could choose any Fire Emblem game to have it's Gameplay, Story, Mechanics, Presentation etc. Fixed/Redone in all the right ways, which game would it be, why, and how? Be broad or be specific, either is fine. It can be any game in the franchise, even recent ones or remakes. Go nuts.

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

I'd like to see a Tellius remake but I know there are others that need to be redone too. This is just my personal thing.

[Magical Glace]

Awakening, because it sucks currently and needs the most fixing to be good, but since everything bad is fixed, I get the most possible gain in quality!

[Bubba Jones]

Reworked how?

After Shadow Dragon and Echoes, I’d like to see any of IS’s older games get more defining mechanical and quality of life tweaks if they choose to make more games in the echoes line since a coat of paint won’t hide mechanics and maps that were fine ages ago but haven’t aged well since.

[MCProductions]

I'd dig an actually good FE3 remake.

[Armagon]

Genealogy of the Holy War. It's got a good story buy my God, the gameplay is abysmal, the worst the series has to offer. How to fix it:

• Get rid of the big maps. Nothing good came out of them. All it does is turn the game into one giant slogfest. "B-but the big maps is the main appeal of FE4" I don't give a damn. The gameplay suffers because of it. The best way to fix it would just be to make the maps smaller. In FE7, Ch.27 in Hector's Tale, there's a map that does FE4's thing of conquering multiple castles within a map.....but the map isn't unnecessarily big. Proof that the FE4 map formula can be done right without having to be too big.
• Fix the unit balance. Unit balance in FE4 works like this: If you don't have a mount, Pursuit, or Holy Blood, you're automatically bad. If you have all three, you're one of the best units in the game. Having a mount is essential to this game because you get to places quicker. For whatever reason, Kaga decided it was a good idea to have doubling be locked to a Skill because why? And Holy Blood grants access to Holy Weapons, which are super incredibly powerful, to the point that there's literally no point in using other weapons. So how do we fix this bullshit? Well, the Horse Emblem issue is solved by reducing the size of the maps. Doubling being locked to Pursuit can be solved by taking Pursuit out of the game because it's actual bullshit. The Holy Weapons also need a good nerf so that their users aren't automatically made the best units in the game.
• Pawn Shop: Trading doesn't exist in FE4 for some reason. Instead, you have to sell weapons and then have the other unit buy them because fuck regular trading like in literally every other game amirite? Literally, just take out Pawn Shops and replace them with Trading, IT'S NOT THAT HARD!
• Reduce the minimum promotion level from 20 to 10. This one speaks for itself.
• Villages: Now, this is also solved by having the map sizes being reduced but another bad thing about FE4 is that the game wants you to rush so you can save the villages from being razed because the bandits always start the maps either near them or already on the villages. This prevents you from saving them completely intact most of the time, which earns you 5000 gold (the more damage a village takes, the less gold you get). So yeah, don't have bandits spawn near or on these villages.
• The Love System should just be replaced with the C-B-A-S Supports but this is an obvious thing. The C-B-A-S Supports makes it easier to keep track of developing couples. Normally, you'd have to check with the Fortune Teller, who would just give you a vague statement.
• That thing where the enemy units can switch their weapons during the player phase so that they can always counterattack? I don't need to explain how bullshit that is. Just fix it so that they don't do that.

[Guest Dreamyboi]

15 minutes ago, Bubba Jones said:

Reworked how?

After Shadow Dragon and Echoes, I’d like to see any of IS’s older games get more defining mechanical and quality of life tweaks if they choose to make more games in the echoes line since a coat of paint won’t hide mechanics and maps that were fine ages ago but haven’t aged well since.

Reworked in any way you can think of, that's part of what was being asked. Also good point on the Echoes bit.

[Guest Dreamyboi]

6 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Genealogy of the Holy War. It's got a good story buy my God, the gameplay is abysmal, the worst the series has to offer. How to fix it:

• Get rid of the big maps. Nothing good came out of them. All it does is turn the game into one giant slogfest. "B-but the big maps is the main appeal of FE4" I don't give a damn. The gameplay suffers because of it. The best way to fix it would just be to make the maps smaller. In FE7, Ch.27 in Hector's Tale, there's a map that does FE4's thing of conquering multiple castles within a map.....but the map isn't unnecessarily big. Proof that the FE4 map formula can be done right without having to be too big.
• Fix the unit balance. Unit balance in FE4 works like this: If you don't have a mount, Pursuit, or Holy Blood, you're automatically bad. If you have all three, you're one of the best units in the game. Having a mount is essential to this game because you get to places quicker. For whatever reason, Kaga decided it was a good idea to have doubling be locked to a Skill because why? And Holy Blood grants access to Holy Weapons, which are super incredibly powerful, to the point that there's literally no point in using other weapons. So how do we fix this bullshit? Well, the Horse Emblem issue is solved by reducing the size of the maps. Doubling being locked to Pursuit can be solved by taking Pursuit out of the game because it's actual bullshit. The Holy Weapons also need a good nerf so that their users aren't automatically made the best units in the game.
• Pawn Shop: Trading doesn't exist in FE4 for some reason. Instead, you have to sell weapons and then have the other unit buy them because fuck regular trading like in literally every other game amirite? Literally, just take out Pawn Shops and replace them with Trading, IT'S NOT THAT HARD!
• Reduce the minimum promotion level from 20 to 10. This one speaks for itself.
• Villages: Now, this is also solved by having the map sizes being reduced but another bad thing about FE4 is that the game wants you to rush so you can save the villages from being razed because the bandits always start the maps either near them or already on the villages. This prevents you from saving them completely intact most of the time, which earns you 5000 gold (the more damage a village takes, the less gold you get). So yeah, don't have bandits spawn near or on these villages.
• The Love System should just be replaced with the C-B-A-S Supports but this is an obvious thing. The C-B-A-S Supports makes it easier to keep track of developing couples. Normally, you'd have to check with the Fortune Teller, who would just give you a vague statement.
• That thing where the enemy units can switch their weapons during the player phase so that they can always counterattack? I don't need to explain how bullshit that is. Just fix it so that they don't do that.

Oof, this game needs fixing bad.

[omegaxis1]

One thing I need to question is whether IS will EVER remake games by rebuilding it from the ground up. The issue is how in Shadow Dragon, New Mystery, and now Echoes, the thing is, the story is ultimately unchanged. However, the changes that are made are generally small or such, but is not a radical change. For Shadow Dragon, it has been of Marth being forced to abandon his home and needing to go reclaim it and defeat Medeus and Gharnef. New Mystery is still Hardin going mad, and Marth needing to collect the 5 Gemstones to defeat Hardin again. 

And now Echoes, they added Berkut and Fernand and gave some other aspects like changing Duma and Mila from gods to Divine Dragons, but it's still about Alm and Celica going through their journey to save Valentia. And adding an easter egg about Grima. 

But what about games like Awakening and Fates? Or Radiant Dawn? 

Can you actually break these games and their stories and rebuild it from the ground up? 

For example, on Fates, can we end up changing things so that every path is now much more different? Changing even the way each path is structured? Making it so that the moral grey is more defined? In Birthright, it goes where Corrin somehow takes a leading charge, and then the point is to sneak into Nohr while the main army is fighting Nohr head on. And in Conquest, we go from trying to save everyone to hurrying to conquer Hoshido. And Revelations didn't reveal anything. 

For Fates, it needs to be broken up from the bottom to the top. 

Awakening is more on the case that it just needs more expansion. It tries to cram three entire arcs into one. 

[Reality]

I mean, I think remakes are unhealthy compared to new games, so I would say none of them as a short answer.

If we take a case by case look- 

Arachena : There is a case for Marth's vitality tying in with FE's brand recognition, but personally I believe this aspect of marketing to be over-valued, especially in the wake of FE Warriors and FE Heroes, which cannot really be said to benefit Marth more than other charathers included in them. However, I personally prefer these games kept short, and free of having its villians "psychologized" or for its story and charethercs  expanded, because I enjoy that it feels like an earnestly presented saga in the old heroic mode. I like that it is free of self-reflective and deconstructive elements, and I feel that a remake, even if it had the overrt intention of preserving the original's tone, could not create this same impression. Go argue with Ian Dawe about re-constructionism as a literary movement. This is not because of a lack of faith in the current IS's writing team or anythig, but I feel it is kind of intristic in the very nature of remakes in and of themselves.

Judgral: I think that without the creative vision of the original writing team, a Judgral remake would be somewhat hollow, even if we sidestep the people who want its gameplay intact versus those who want it modernized. 

Elibe: I think people have hyped (FE6) a lot based on speculation due to that one twitter post, but I really do not think that the team really has as personal a conncetion to this game as many of the others. Additionally it is very hard for me to envision much of what remakes of these would do. I mean I can see fixes to FE7's normal mode being too easy, thrones, gaiden chapters being slightly annoying, etc, but these do not seem like  big enough additions to justify a remake, since they are more along the lines of balance tweaks. FE6 is a much easier game to suggest chapter by chapter gameplay improvements and a story overhaul, but it has it's own problems.  . Even in a remade form, I feel that FE6's bloated cast size would be difficult to manage. An SoV-esque approach to charatherization would justify less Support converstaions even than in the original game, for example.  It would be nice to have the game's setting finally harmonize with FE7 however. FE6 also has the problem that Path of Radiance and the Judgral games have where the main villian is completely outshined by his subordinates, and his actual story prescence is very low, even in cutscenes. How many people even know who Jahn is? And many people asking for remakes would like for the problem to be even worse... Think about how people call for Zephiel / Reinhardt story expansions comapared to the nominal big villians. Especially considering that the latter is part of a Freege sub-arc that distracts from Leif's focus on Lenster and Ledrick (a narrative already competing for screentime with the Loptyr cult's regional leader and FE4 references). I think that the inevitably of a game like FE6 commiting even further into "completely seperate non-overlapping arcs" is a major reason for it to remain passed over.

Sacred Stones: One thing I feel strange about FE2 geting a remake in SoV, is that the game was shorter than normal by FE standards, so it would be strange to remake another shorter than average game. If the output of the company took the form of another lightweight game (after the presumably heavy-weight FE Switch), I feel that it would make the entire (Echoes brand) feel like a "skippable" experience compared to  new bi-annual main series games. I feel that it would benefit the entire Echoes (remake line) to have their next offering be a "meaty" game for this reason. 

Telius: PoR for me is somewhat disapointing gameplaywise, since it is kind of SS-like in difficulty ( in addition to the animations being slow) and while there are a few variety maps like (priest map, desert map, cliff map, bridge map) the other 19~ maps in the game feel fairly similiar in their objective variety and those 6 "variety" maps include a few that are more annoying or forgettable rather than memorable.. I feel like it could stand a remake, and like arachnea, it has a weak marketing excuse  to do so in the form of Ike's bing a good canidate to promote brand recognition, again due to Smash and Heroes's proclaiming him the strongest of all Lords. Radiant Dawn cannot be remade because it's would be like doing a re-run of a tb show's second season and does not invite new comers to pick up the story from the middle point alongside veterns.. 

Awakening: 
Fates:

[Fabulously Olivier]

Depends on how you define a rework.

 

If a rework is an extensive game overhaul, then that should go to Geneology of the Holy War. The story is among the best in the franchise, but it could use more modern design sensibilities. Namely, cut its maps into more cohesive smaller chapters (while keeping the overall content of the game roughly the same). Also, get rid of unit bound currency. Then we just need high quality support conversations and additional difficulty settings, plus whatever experimental mechanics IS wishes to implement.

 

If a rework is just a graphical remaster with added features, then the Tellius games deserve a rework for Switch. Hell, they deserve one anyway. They're borderline perfect as is (or at least Path of Radiance is), but can be made even better with a graphical bump and additional difficulty settings. 

Path of Radiance had perfectly balanced difficulty at each tier with reasonable jumps between each difficulty, but could use additional higher difficulty settings on top of the current ones:

• Easy - Existing Easy
• Normal - Existing Normal
• Hard - Existing Hard
• Lunatic - Japan's exclusive difficulty mode ported
• Infernal - Harder than all existing settings

Radiant Dawn would be slightly more complicated, as its difficulty settings were poorly done with massive difficulty shifts between settings and a generally poorly designed difficulty curve which front-loaded most of its difficulty into Micaiah's campaign. In addition to making the difficulty curve more linear, with easier Acts 1 & 2 and harder Act 5, the game could use the following difficulties:

• Easy - Existing Easy
• Normal - Between existing Easy and Normal
• Hard - Existing Normal
• Lunatic - Between existing Normal and Hard
• Lunatic+ - Existing Hard
• Infernal - Harder than all existing settings

 

[Bubba Jones]

1 hour ago, Dreamyboi said:

Reworked in any way you can think of, that's part of what was being asked. Also good point on the Echoes bit.

Well looking at an earlier post:

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Genealogy of the Holy War. It's got a good story buy my God, the gameplay is abysmal, the worst the series has to offer. How to fix it:

• <snip>

Map traversal and item management were the two worst things about that game that could be polished out with a few tweaks (combined inventory, smaller maps/broken up chapters/unlockable castle teleport or quick travel if the large maps are retained).

However with the way reworks have been going, I’m pretty sure IS would leave in one or both of these in a remake.

[Shadow Mir]

Genealogy of the Holy War. By the Goddesses of the Triforce, calling that junk a game is an insult to games that are actually good. It needs a metric ton of work just to be something that's remotely presentable. Thracia is also in dire need of a rework.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Stercus]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Genealogy of the Holy War. It's got a good story buy my God, the gameplay is abysmal, the worst the series has to offer. How to fix it:

• Get rid of the big maps. Nothing good came out of them. All it does is turn the game into one giant slogfest. "B-but the big maps is the main appeal of FE4" I don't give a damn. The gameplay suffers because of it. The best way to fix it would just be to make the maps smaller. In FE7, Ch.27 in Hector's Tale, there's a map that does FE4's thing of conquering multiple castles within a map.....but the map isn't unnecessarily big. Proof that the FE4 map formula can be done right without having to be too big.
• Fix the unit balance. Unit balance in FE4 works like this: If you don't have a mount, Pursuit, or Holy Blood, you're automatically bad. If you have all three, you're one of the best units in the game. Having a mount is essential to this game because you get to places quicker. For whatever reason, Kaga decided it was a good idea to have doubling be locked to a Skill because why? And Holy Blood grants access to Holy Weapons, which are super incredibly powerful, to the point that there's literally no point in using other weapons. So how do we fix this bullshit? Well, the Horse Emblem issue is solved by reducing the size of the maps. Doubling being locked to Pursuit can be solved by taking Pursuit out of the game because it's actual bullshit. The Holy Weapons also need a good nerf so that their users aren't automatically made the best units in the game.
• Pawn Shop: Trading doesn't exist in FE4 for some reason. Instead, you have to sell weapons and then have the other unit buy them because fuck regular trading like in literally every other game amirite? Literally, just take out Pawn Shops and replace them with Trading, IT'S NOT THAT HARD!
• Reduce the minimum promotion level from 20 to 10. This one speaks for itself.
• Villages: Now, this is also solved by having the map sizes being reduced but another bad thing about FE4 is that the game wants you to rush so you can save the villages from being razed because the bandits always start the maps either near them or already on the villages. This prevents you from saving them completely intact most of the time, which earns you 5000 gold (the more damage a village takes, the less gold you get). So yeah, don't have bandits spawn near or on these villages.
• The Love System should just be replaced with the C-B-A-S Supports but this is an obvious thing. The C-B-A-S Supports makes it easier to keep track of developing couples. Normally, you'd have to check with the Fortune Teller, who would just give you a vague statement.
• That thing where the enemy units can switch their weapons during the player phase so that they can always counterattack? I don't need to explain how bullshit that is. Just fix it so that they don't do that.

I have only read about Geneology, but what I have read deeply interests me, and these quality of life tweaks make it sound like a game I'd absolutely love to play. I'd honestly like to see quality of life improvements and remakes for Japan only games like Geneology and Binding Blade.

[NinjaMonkey]

Shadow Dragon. Specifically get rid of the whole "we have to be faithful to the original" mindset.

[Fabulously Olivier]

23 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Shadow Dragon. Specifically get rid of the whole "we have to be faithful to the original" mindset.

Agreed. Shadow Dragon was boring. I mean, don't get me wrong. The map design is a hell out of a lot better than the trainwreck that is Gaiden/SoV, but the lack of story and characterization, lack of objective variety, and dated mechanics really make it a disappointment.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Etheus said:

Agreed. Shadow Dragon was boring. I mean, don't get me wrong. The map design is a hell out of a lot better than the trainwreck that is Gaiden/SoV, but the lack of story and characterization, lack of objective variety, and dated mechanics really make it a disappointment.

However, do not get rid of the spectacular character development that Marth got in Shadow Dragon. Because that story he went through, turning from a boy that lost everything to the man that would become the Hero-King, is not to be downplayed. 

I dug into Marth's character mostly from Shadow Dragon, and my god, everything about it made me understand why Marth is so amazing and why he deserves to be the face of Fire Emblem. No other FE Lord has come close to the level of charisma that I felt Marth has in my opinion.

[Arcphoenix]

Fates. The game was missed potential embodied. IMO the whole story and much characterization/character development could use a major overhaul. For one example, much of the background information should be moved into the story itself

Spoiler

(ie: Lilith being Corrin's real sister, Anankos being Corrin's father. etc)

Balancing? Maybe just add a Lunatic plus like in Awakening for the seriously hardcore people. Lunatic+ Classic Conquest. Should be fun.

Also, certain levels could maybe use some reworking. Certain annoying levels with even more annoying gimmicks.

World building could also be an option as well as more hair styles for Male Corrin

 

 

Awakening: Skin tone options for the avatar (Fates had a passable excuse but Robin's father is literally grey) and paired up enemies

Edited March 21, 2018 by Arcphoenix

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 minute ago, Arcphoenix said:

Fates. The game was missed potential embodied. IMO the whole story and much characterization/character development could use a major overhaul. For one example, much of the background information should be moved into the story itself

  Hide contents

(ie: Lilith being Corrin's real sister, Anankos being Corrin's father. etc)

Balancing? Maybe just add a Lunatic plus like in Awakening for the seriously hardcore people. Lunatic+ Classic Conquest. Should be fun

If they are to fix the Fates story, they could start by removing Revelation entirely. Fates was advertised entirely on the Birthright and Conquest choice, and that is where its strength should lie. The contrast of nature vs. nurture should define Corrin's character. 

[Cornguy]

@Armagon I like all those ideas for FE4. On the subject of horses, I'd enjoy dismounting to make a comeback and toss some indoor maps in to necessitate the mechanic(let them keep their weapon levels though, kind of silly that they all use swords when dismounted, despite whatever weapon they specialize in). It makes somewhat little sense that Chagall for instance is guarding the castle gate, and there are no other soldiers within the castle to defend him and fight back. You should have to storm the castle after defeating the guard at the gate, at least for plot-important castles.

I might be alone on this, specifically my thoughts on what should change, but I'd like RD to be reworked.

• The balance can be spotty, and I personally don't enjoy the whole "BEXP grants 3 stats, no more no less". It makes good units better, and lower leveled units suffer. I liked BEXP a lot better as just a straight level up, and if some people want to abuse it to rig levels, let them. It's not like the system isn't abusable as it is now.
• Stat caps and/or growths should also be reworked, it kills a little bit of the replay value for me that two units in the same class have almost the exact same stats at 20/20/20. Raise the caps, lower the growths, or both.
• Almost every mastery skill is just a OHKO with different reasons for being a OHKO. They should definitely be toned down, that way it'd actually be reasonable to let more enemy units have them.
• Nihil is also a bit of a mood killer for me personally. I like a bit of RNG in the game, and it's just a little lame that Ike vs BK is just the two of them clubbing each other til the BK dies. If you tone down the mastery skills, you can do away with Nihil, and have the tense, Luna/Aether fight you had in PoR.
• Also if you're gonna cut movement for mounts on indoor maps, why not just use dismounting? It'd also be useful in the couple of swamp maps in the game, Fiona might have a chance to actually participate.
• Lastly should be obvious, but SUPPORTS! I don't need everyone to be able to support with everyone else, just 2-8 support partners per unit. It added so much to PoR's world-building. I know they got cut for time, but a rework should have all the time in the world to work them back in.

[DragonFlames]

5 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Thracia is also in dire need of a rework.

I watched Mekkah's Iron Man playthrough of this...
I don't want to play a game where healing can actually miss and screw you over. I'm also not a fan of people randomly spawning with more movement, making a map basically unbeatable if the RNG hates you.
Though I do think what they did with the capture mechanic was interesting and much better than what Fates did. I also like the idea of having a random chance to get another turn on any unit. I think they should bring that mechanic back in a future game. "But muh Dancers!" Shut up, they're a waste of space and just eye candy, anyway. Although I think FE5 has one. I'm not sure. If so, why would you need one?

As for which game needs a rework, of the ones I've played, I would have to pick Binding Blade:

• REMOVE AMBUSH SPAWNS!
• make Gaiden chapters less cryptic to access
• remove traces that this game is basically FE3 in another setting
• make hit rates less wonky. This feels like Fates all over again
• fix the f***ing unit balance
• make legendary weapons unbreakable. I really don't see a reason why they should break in the first place. It only makes it so some players (like myself) never use them until the final chapter(s). And before any of you start anything: The Falchion, Ragnell and Alondite didn't break, either. Reaching A-rank is hard enough as it is.
• make Fae's Dragonstone unbreakable. If not that, at least give it more durability and / or give us access to multiple stones.
• Better yet, get rid of weapon durability entirely. Fates had the right idea, even though they botched it in places (like any weapon above C-rank being basically unusable) and I liked Echoes' incentive for using different weapons, so they've already proven that it can work.
• and please, for the love of all things holy: change the map and battle themes up more often. Also change the map theme you play the most. The one you got is making me go insane.

Edited March 21, 2018 by DragonFlames

[Michelaar]

Basically what Armagon said. I don't enjoy Genealogy as it stands.

[CatManThree]

5 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I don't want to play a game where healing can actually miss and screw you over. 

To be fair man, staves are REALLY good in Thracia. Seriously, they are really really good. Giving them a chance to miss is a way of nerfing them, and before you say "why not just nerf the staves", know that doing that removes one of if not the most popular thing about the game. This being the various strategies that can be achieved using them.

[Guest Dreamyboi]

10 hours ago, Etheus said:

If they are to fix the Fates story, they could start by removing Revelation entirely. Fates was advertised entirely on the Birthright and Conquest choice, and that is where its strength should lie. The contrast of nature vs. nurture should define Corrin's character. 

Fates was held back by a HANDFUL of stupid decisions but Revelation was the one that killed the story, I doubt they'd ever get rid of it but it really would be the best thing to do.

[Guest Dreamyboi]

5 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I watched Mekkah's Iron Man playthrough of this...
I don't want to play a game where healing can actually miss and screw you over. I'm also not a fan of people randomly spawning with more movement, making a map basically unbeatable if the RNG hates you.
Though I do think what they did with the capture mechanic was interesting and much better than what Fates did. I also like the idea of having a random chance to get another turn on any unit. I think they should bring that mechanic back in a future game. "But muh Dancers!" Shut up, they're a waste of space and just eye candy, anyway. Although I think FE5 has one. I'm not sure. If so, why would you need one?

As for which game needs a rework, of the ones I've played, I would have to pick Binding Blade:

• REMOVE AMBUSH SPAWNS!
• make Gaiden chapters less cryptic to access
• remove traces that this game is basically FE3 in another setting
• make hit rates less wonky. This feels like Fates all over again
• fix the f***ing unit balance
• make legendary weapons unbreakable. I really don't see a reason why they should break in the first place. It only makes it so some players (like myself) never use them until the final chapter(s). And before any of you start anything: The Falchion, Ragnell and Alondite didn't break, either. Reaching A-rank is hard enough as it is.
• make Fae's Dragonstone unbreakable. If not that, at least give it more durability and / or give us access to multiple stones.
• Better yet, get rid of weapon durability entirely. Fates had the right idea, even though they botched it in places (like any weapon above C-rank being basically unusable) and I liked Echoes' incentive for using different weapons, so they've already proven that it can work.
• and please, for the love of all things holy: change the map and battle themes up more often. Also change the map theme you play the most. The one you got is making me go insane.

I've seen Blaze's playthrough of that game and I agree. Why don't we fix Sophia's chapter too while we're at it?

I already don't like Desert maps or Fog of war maps, having a combination of the two just to get one of the worst units in the series does not sound fun.