Worst class in the series?

[Thinks Their Own Way]

I would say Armour Knights aren't bad; they I thought to myself, outside of Effie, Hector (if he counts) and Oswin I really don't use Armour Knights. I didn't even bother with them after a while in Echoes. Light Magic classes in the GBA games without the slayer skill and Lucius have been pretty terrible. Archers pre-Fates needed better stats. The Awakening Beast Class I really don't care for, I feel the Beast-stone in that game is not very good and stats to be uninteresting.

[Emperor Hardin]

On 4/26/2018 at 7:07 AM, DragonFlames said:

On the topic of armoured units, their "superior" Defence usually gets jeopardized by them getting doubled by nearly everything, especially in the older games where stat differences weren't as vast as in Awakening, Fates or Echoes, so anything with Strength on the level of, say, a Cavalier is more than likely to deal dangerous amounts of damage to your Armour Knight and may Duma help you if you accidentally put them in magic range...
And with effective weaponry getting more and more prevalent in recent games and on higher difficulties, their usability gets further and further compromised to the point of them being more liability than asset.

Armored units are worse in Echoes then they were in the original Gaiden.

And the Armored Knight and Generals in Awakening are among of the very worst of the class in the whole series.

Of the 3DS games, only the Knights and Generals of Fates are good.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[NinjaMonkey]

On ‎16‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 6:31 AM, Emperor Hardin said:

Kellam is terrible

You do realise you can reclass him to Thief -> Trickster get a crap ton of speed and Acrobat, then reclass him back right? Then you get a Kellam that's a lot faster than usual, and takes absolutely no terrain penalties whatsoever.

Edited April 28, 2018 by NinjaMonkey

[Emperor Hardin]

2 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

You do realise you can reclass him to Thief -> Trickster get a crap ton of speed and Acrobat, then reclass him back right? Then you get a Kellam that's a lot faster than usual, and takes absolutely no terrain penalties whatsoever.

The fact that you have to reclass him out of the Knight/General line doesn't speak well for the class.

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

You do realise you can reclass him to Thief -> Trickster get a crap ton of speed and Acrobat, then reclass him back right? Then you get a Kellam that's a lot faster than usual, and takes absolutely no terrain penalties whatsoever.

Which comes at the cost of a crap ton of defence (-9). Even spotting +2 for Defense +2, that's still a major hit to defence.

[NinjaMonkey]

9 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Which comes at the cost of a crap ton of defence (-9). Even spotting +2 for Defense +2, that's still a major hit to defence.

You do know that Pair Up is broken in Awakening, right? So the defense loss hardly matters if he's not getting hit in the first place.

[Nordanist1831]

I know this whole debate has been on how armor knights in the gba games were awful, but it's even worse in the original fire emblem. In Fire Emblem shadow dragon the General class was available, but only as an enemy class. As such, similar to thiefs in fire emblem 6, armored knights could not promote. I know it's on the original nes fire emblem, but it still needs to be mentioned. I feel that if summoners could not use staves they'd be the worst classes. I love using generals btw.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Nordanist1831
Adding more comments

[Von Ithipathachai]

48 minutes ago, Nordanist1831 said:

I know this whole debate has been on how armor knights in the gba games were awful, but it's even worse in the original fire emblem. In Fire Emblem shadow dragon the General class was available, but only as an enemy class. As such, similar to thiefs in fire emblem 6, armored knights could not promote. I know it's on the original nes fire emblem, but it still needs to be mentioned. I feel that if summoners could not use staves they'd be the worst classes. I love using generals btw.

You get one playable General in Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light in the form of Lorenz.

But yeah.  Knights in the original game have it pretty awful.

[Slumber]

6 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

You do know that Pair Up is broken in Awakening, right? So the defense loss hardly matters if he's not getting hit in the first place.

I feel like you're jumping through a lot of hoops to justify Kellam. 

I'm gonna say Knights are bad in Awakening if you need to change the class of the one you get and pair him up to make him good. 

[Emperor Hardin]

2 hours ago, Nordanist1831 said:

I know this whole debate has been on how armor knights in the gba games were awful, but it's even worse in the original fire emblem. In Fire Emblem shadow dragon the General class was available, but only as an enemy class

Lorenz existed and kicked ass in FE1/FE3. He's perfect for finishing off Medeus in a 0% growth run.

Actually FE1 is the only Fire Emblem, where EVERY class is available to the player. I'm not counting Magestone/Earthstone equipped Manaketes as different classes.

[NinjaMonkey]

2 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

You get one playable General in Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light in the form of Lorenz.

Horace says hi.

55 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I feel like you're jumping through a lot of hoops to justify Kellam. 

I'm gonna say Knights are bad in Awakening if you need to change the class of the one you get and pair him up to make him good. 

I don't think so, no. Although, I will admit that Sumia is usually my General of choice.

[Von Ithipathachai]

1 minute ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Horace says hi.

I don't think so, no. Although, I will admit that Sumia is usually my General of choice.

Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light is the NES original.  Horace only appeared in the remake, which is simply called Shadow Dragon.  Since Nordanist1831 was referring specifically to FE1, Horace does not count by a long shot.  Confusing, I know.

And I don't believe Pair Up or Reclassing make good defenses for Knight characters being good, since those mechanics are not intrinsic to the class itself.

[NinjaMonkey]

5 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

And I don't believe Pair Up or Reclassing make good defenses for Knight characters being good, since those mechanics are not intrinsic to the class itself.

If you bothered to read my post, you'd know that wasn't aimed at you. 

[Von Ithipathachai]

1 minute ago, NinjaMonkey said:

If you bothered to read my post, you'd know that wasn't aimed at you. 

I know that.  I simply wanted to add on to what Slumber said.

[Nordanist1831]

3 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Lorenz existed and kicked ass in FE1/FE3. He's perfect for finishing off Medeus in a 0% growth run.

Actually FE1 is the only Fire Emblem, where EVERY class is available to the player. I'm not counting Magestone/Earthstone equipped Manaketes as different classes.

True, but that doesn't excuse how bad draug was in fe1 once you got to mid game, plus how better he could have been if he had the ability to promote into a general, along with a growth rate of more then 10% in defense. idk how he was in the shadow dragon remake (I haven't gotten around to playing it) but surely he was better then in fe1

[Rapier]

Thief. They can barely stand hits, barely deal damage and rely on luck to dodge. Generally their only usefulness is opening locks, which you can just buy keys for anyway. It's usually a waste of a slot that you could give to a combat capable unit.

Knights, although not so much in games with Rescue.

Brigands, for usually having really crappy hit chances.

[Emperor Hardin]

2 hours ago, Nordanist1831 said:

True, but that doesn't excuse how bad draug was in fe1 once you got to mid game, plus how better he could have been if he had the ability to promote into a general, along with a growth rate of more then 10% in defense. idk how he was in the shadow dragon remake (I haven't gotten around to playing it) but surely he was better then in fe1

Draug is pretty outclassed, but I'd say he has it better then any of the axe users not named Barst.

I've heard the reason for Knights not promoting into General in FE1 relates to trouble getting the promotion items to work. Basically with how the game engine works, if a Knight could use a Knight crest to promote, he'd become a Paladin as FE1 promotion items always turn the unit into the same class. It seems clear, even with Generals not getting Lances, that Knight-->General was always planned.

Draug's defense growth is 30% in Shadow Dragon. He's a decent unit. Funnily enough his base growths make him a heavy speedy and fragile units, his base speed growth is almost as high as Caeda's!

58 minutes ago, Rapier said:

Brigands, for usually having really crappy hit chances.

Personally I've found brigands to be great and better then Fighters in the majority of their appearances. There are a few exceptions though like FE5, FE9 and TRS though. 

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[Rapier]

I meant Fighters, my bad. I mean, they're ok when fighting lance users, but.... that's pretty much it.

[Emperor Hardin]

1 hour ago, Rapier said:

I meant Fighters, my bad. I mean, they're ok when fighting lance users, but.... that's pretty much it.

Fighters best are in the following games: FE5, FE9, FE10, TS, BS, FE11, FE12, and FE14.

Should be noted that FE11/FE12 Warrior isn't all that good for stat caps though.

Speaking of Tearring Saga and Berwick Saga, the Fighters there are essentially Axe wielding Myrmidons.

While FE doesn't have to go that route, the Fighter's focus on skill over speed should be noticeable. As it is, the Brigand line has way more speed then Fighter, while the Fighter line only has a negligible advantage in skill.

Too bad more fighters can't be like Boyd and Nolan.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[Shadow Mir]

8 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Personally I've found brigands to be great and better then Fighters in the majority of their appearances. There are a few exceptions though like FE5, FE9 and TRS though. 

Except the only playable brigands were Marty and Gonzales, neither of whom were that good.

6 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Fighters best are in the following games: FE5, FE9, FE10, TS, BS, FE11, FE12, and FE14.

In what way were fighters at their best in Fates??? I'd sooner say it was one of their worst games since the GBA era.

[DragonFlames]

7 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Fighters best are in the following games: FE5, FE9, FE10, TS, BS, FE11, FE12, and FE14.

Should be noted that FE11/FE12 Warrior isn't all that good for stat caps though.

Speaking of Tearring Saga and Berwick Saga, the Fighters there are essentially Axe wielding Myrmidons.

While FE doesn't have to go that route, the Fighter's focus on skill over speed should be noticeable. As it is, the Brigand line has way more speed then Fighter, while the Fighter line only has a negligible advantage in skill.

Too bad more fighters can't be like Boyd and Nolan.

 

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

In what way were fighters at their best in Fates??? I'd sooner say it was one of their worst games since the GBA era.

Honestly, I have a very hard time seeing Fighters as anything but bad. Granted, I have not played FE5 (even then, I'm guessing it's more the Pugi than the class itself), but in every other game I've played and tried to used them in, they ended up getting benched due to them screwing me over more than they actually helped.

Edited April 29, 2018 by DragonFlames

[Emperor Hardin]

9 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Except the only playable brigands were Marty and Gonzales, neither of whom were that good.

I'm counting Pirates and reclassed barbarians as "Brigands."

Also I'll just say professional tier lists would disagree with you on Gonzales.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[Von Ithipathachai]

3 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I'm counting Pirates and reclassed barbarians as "Brigands."

Also I'll just say professional tier lists would disagree with you on Gonzales.

Exactly how well-liked is Gonzalez?  I'm a bit out of the loop, but from what I can tell his reception as a unit is mixed.  He's either loved for his high damage output (I'm in this camp) or hated for his awful hit rates in a game where axes are at maybe their second-worst.

[Shadow Mir]

18 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I'm counting Pirates and reclassed barbarians as "Brigands."

Also I'll just say professional tier lists would disagree with you on Gonzales.

Reclassing would just open another can of worms, so I don't count it. Adding pirates would do little to bolster their quality, honestly.

I think you're the one they'd disagree with - low skill and axe lock is a match made in Hell. But Von Ithipathachai is right. Gonzales is a base breaker.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Rose482]

I will have to say Armour Knights, i always find them so hard to use, getting them anywhere could take forever, and even when you do, giving them kills is also not the easiest thing, i almost never use them.....the only time i used one that i can think of is Meg, and that just becasue i wanted to try and use her and see for myself how good/bad she can be 0_0