I don't really get Areone

[Jotari]

So I'm at an odd impasse when it comes to Chapter 9 of Genelogy of Holy War. When I play through the game I (metaphorically) nod my head and say yeah, that makes sense. These characters are doing what these characters do. But then, whenever I think about it on retrospect, it just doesn't make sense to me. Specifically everything Areone does. As I understand it, the set up is this:

Seliph doesn't really want to fight Thrcia, he doesn't see them as his enemy. But he needs to pass through, and can't risk being attacked from behind. Leif probably does wish to fight Thracia, but tough luck, it's not his game so we don't really get to hear about his feelings on the matter outside of how they directly related to the Altenna plot.

Meanwhile, on the Thracian side, Travant doesn't really want to fight Liberation Army as he hates being the Empire's stooage, so to speak. He also reckons the Liberation Army won't let him join due to all the bad blood between South and North Thracia. He sends Altenna out to fight the Liberation army and she either dies on the battlefield or Areone pretends to kill her in front of him. Up until this point, Travant was flying around the kingdom making sure every one of his generals were prepared for the fight. He's ready to fight this war. But then, after Altenna dies, he suddenly decides to take to the field himself and leaves Gungnir behind. This still makes sense to me, Travant is basically suicidal now and just like Alvis, he wants to give Leif the justice he deserves. So he flies out to fight the Liberation Army without his holy weapon. The exact words, which are important, are

Trabant:
“Areone, I’ve grown tired. It’s me they’re after anyway. Do as you see fit after I’m gone, okay?”

Areone:
“So you’re suggesting I call for a truce!? I will never, ever give in to them, father!”

Trabant:
“Like I said, do as you see fit. I only ask that you see an end to the people’s suffering. Farewell, Areone!”

Areone:
“Father…”

So he's going to give the Liberation Army what they want, his own life. Focus all the hate the people have towards Thracia onto himself. It's all very Zero Requim. But then, the inexplicable part for me, Areone doesn't capitilze on this at all! He continues fighting the war. Okay, fair enough, he says he can never call a truce when Travant is still alive, but like...why? What is he getting out of this? Basically Areone's only defining features are his loyalty to Travant and his love for Altenna, and he's going against both of these things right now. He wakes up Altenna and tells her to go back to the Liberation Army, they have this exchange.

Altenna:
“I see… Areone. So where is fath… King Trabant?”

Areone:
“He won’t be coming back… I received word he died in battle.”

Altenna:
“…Really? What happened?”

Areone:
“You’re better off not asking, Altenna. You don’t understand father the way I do.”

Altenna:
“…Areone, what do you think I should do?”

Areone:
“Prince Leaf is waiting for you. Go to him.”

Altenna:
“But what’s to become of us?”

Areone:
“Altenna… this is our fate. And the sooner we resign ourselves to it the better.”

Altenna:
“Areone, we can call for a truce! With King Trabant gone, there’s nothing stopping us! Besides, I’m not about to fight you!”

Areone:
“If it weren’t for father’s parting words, I would… Just go, Altenna… now! Next time we meet shall be on the battlefield. But be ready… I won’t go easy on you!”

Altenna:
“Areone…”

"If it weren't for father's parting word" Am I missing something crucial here? Travant's last words seem really clear. He tells Areone to do what he wants, just don't let Thracia suffer. So why is he waging a war in which the people of Thracia will undoubtedly suffer? Is he lying to Altenna about what Travants last words were? Or does he just understand them in a completely different way to me. Areone has no personal feelings for this war, he doesn't show any signs of hating the Liberation Army for any reason or loyalty to the empire. He's even put the person he has creepy incestious feelings for on the enemy's side giving him even less reason to wage the war. Is he just suicidal like Travant? That's the closest I can get with his we must resign outselves to it line. Hannibal also says something about a warriors death. But I don't really get why Areone would be so eager to off himself that way unless he just happens to be chemcially depressed for no good reason. The game even draws attention to how inexplicably stubborn Areone is being.

So he keeps on fighting despite it being against the two people he loves most, his father and sister. He's of course defeated and Julius appears out of nowhere to whisk him away (I guess he did that because he still wanted to control Gungnir, not sure why Brin or Faval don't get the same treatment should you kill them, maybe Juilius just likes Areone's style). Areone shows up in the final chapter and you can get him on your side by talking to him with Altenna one more time. I'll break this one down line by line.

Altenna:
“Areone… stop! Just what is it going to take for you to listen to me!?”

Areone:
“Altenna!?”

Altenna:
“You’re such a coward! You’re so caught up in your damn ego that you’ve completely lost track of what’s right!”

What ego? How can he be getting any kind of self esteem for fighting against the wishes of his loved ones and his country for zero benefit? Does he think Thracia won't be an independant nation if he joins Leif? Because that's what does end up happening, yet there's no indication that Areone suspects as much.

Areone:
“So what are you suggesting I do!?”

Stop trying to kill the sister you want to sleep with...

Altenna:
“Take a look at Prince Celice! Why do you think he’s out here putting his life on the line? Think about it”
for a minute.

Areone:
“So what? He’s in the right and I’m not somehow?”

Yes, he's fighting to reclaim his kingdom from the people that usurped him, killed his father and have hunted him his entire life. You're trying to reclaim your kingdom from the people that actively don't want to fight you and you know it damn well. They send peace messeges to you. There's absolutely no reason why Thracia should have fallen. You could have been content to sit in your castle and let the Liberation Army march on, only surrendering Mease Castle if anything (I mean, depending on when in the chapter you kill Travant and Areone takes over. Natrually it happens pretty early in the chapter, but, I suppose, theoretically, you could keep Travant alive indefinitely).

Altenna:
“Areone… If I can’t get through to you, then just finish me off and move on. My fate is in your hands…” 

AKA "I can't convince you."

Areone:
“Altenna… that’s enough. I… I see your point now. My final action as a mercenary shall be for Celi-… No, for you, Altenna. I fight for you.” 

AKA "Alright. You've thoughly convinced me."

And then he joins the Liberation Army anyway (but not the playable army, and I'm actually fine with that since he's not fighting for Seliph). How did Altenna even change his mind? Dares him to join them or kill her and he finds that he can't kill her. Then why were you fighting against her! She's meant to be your main motivation! But instead there's these vague ramblins about the pride of a Thracian Dragon Knight that just doesn't make sense to me. He's not taking pride in his country or his father or his family when he's actively damaging them. The Liberation aren't his personal enemy. There's no shame in not fighting them and there's no reason to fight them and nobody bloody wants him to fight them and in the end he agrees not to fight them. So why does he fight them!?

As I said, somehow this makes perfect sense to me when I'm playing the game, and I actually like Areone as a character. But trying to put it into any sort of rationale context makes no sense to me. I just don't see what he stands to gain by fighting the heroes, or what he stands to lose by joining them or even remaining impartial.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Jotari

[redlight]

Areone (Orion) is an okay character, but trying to understand his actions is as difficult as Azura's in Fates

[Jotari]

On 3/28/2018 at 2:38 AM, silveraura25 said:

Areone (Orion) is an okay character, but trying to understand his actions is as difficult as Azura's in Fates

Oh is that what we're meant to call him now? I don't really like it. I feel someone called Orion should be using a bow. Plus I just like the way Air-Ee-Own sounds. It has air in it, and he flies a dragon. That just makes sense. Like Tide and Tidus.

Also, the difference between Azura and Areone is that the latter is a much more proactive character. I can kind of buy that Azura is actually just super lazy and doesn't bother trying to make any efforts to tell people the truth. Azura has problems with the things she doesn't do that she does, while Areone does things that he shouldn't, which is much more questionable to me. The only thing that makes sense is that he just plain misheard Travant and thought his father said "Kill them all," or something.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Jotari

[omegaxis1]

There is no perfect sense here. The guy's mind is not right at all. He is trapped in his own delusions, thoroughly convinced that what his father wants is to defeat the Northern Thracia. He's so trapped in the belief that his nation is in the right, he misunderstands what his father was telling him. 

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

There is no perfect sense here. The guy's mind is not right at all. He is trapped in his own delusions, thoroughly convinced that what his father wants is to defeat the Northern Thracia. He's so trapped in the belief that his nation is in the right, he misunderstands what his father was telling him. 

Might be a case of the translation. I could see that perspective much easier if Travant's last words were more ambigious like "Don't forget the people of Thracia." That could be read as Don't forget what it means to be a person of Thracia (which is to be really belligerant towards Northern Thracia). But "I only ask that you see an end to the people's suffering," I can't really read that to mean much more than call a truce given the context of everything else Travant said.

[redlight]

48 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Oh is that what we're meant to call him now? I don't really like it. I feel someone called Orion should be using a bow. Plus I just like the way Air-Ee-Own sounds. It has air in it, and he flies a dragon. That just makes sense. Like Tide and Tidus.

Also, the difference between Azura and Areone is that the former is a much more proactive character. I can kind of buy that Azura is actaully just super lazy and doesn't bother trying to make any efforts to tell people the truth. Azura has problems with the things she doesn't do that she does, while Areone does things that he shouldn't, which is much more questionable to me. The only thing that makes sense is that he just plain misheard Travant and thought his father said "Kill them all," or something.

I just mean it as headscratching

Did I write Orion? Shit. I mixed it up. I meant Arion. Sorry

Edited March 27, 2018 by silveraura25

[Jotari]

37 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

I just mean it as headscratching

Did I write Orion? Shit. I mixed it up. I meant Arion. Sorry

Ah, that's not nearly as bad as Orion. Still sounds mostly the same. I'd be more inclined to say Arry-On with that spelling.

[blah the Prussian]

FE4 is a good example of a good plot with terrible writing. In a better written game Areone would have been consumed by rage for those who killed his father.

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, blah the Prussian said:

FE4 is a good example of a good plot with terrible writing. In a better written game Areone would have been consumed by rage for those who killed his father.

That would give him a god parallel with Leif, but it still wouldn't really make all that much sense since Travant willingly went out on the battlefield with a handicap and Areone was there to hear why. Being angry at everyone killing their family is Brian and Ishtar's hat.

[Acacia Sgt]

Perhaps Areone felt he had no choice. Thraccia is, after all, formally allied with the Empire. He probably felt that if he simply lets the Liberation Army pass, it'd be considered as treason by Grannvale, and thus they would have to face the consequences. By continuing the attack, he could at least only risk the soldiers, and not the civilians. In theory at least.

[Lewyn]

18 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Perhaps Areone felt he had no choice. Thraccia is, after all, formally allied with the Empire. He probably felt that if he simply lets the Liberation Army pass, it'd be considered as treason by Grannvale, and thus they would have to face the consequences. By continuing the attack, he could at least only risk the soldiers, and not the civilians. In theory at least.

This is what I see it as.  Travant says do as you see fit.  He has no hatred towards the liberation army, but if he lets them just pass without opposing he feels he puts his people in grave danger from the Empire.  A people already suffering a lot, in the harsh lands they live in.  

He sends Altenna away out of love, and he knows perhaps likely he may fall in battle, he'd rather Altenna does not as well.  He's resigned himself to fight and likely die along with his soldiers to protect the civilians of Thracia as well as Altenna.  He even says "I won't go easy on you!"  As in don't hesitate if we meet on the battlefield.  

 

 

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

This is what I see it as.  Travant says do as you see fit.  He has no hatred towards the liberation army, but if he lets them just pass without opposing he feels he puts his people in grave danger from the Empire.  A people already suffering a lot, in the harsh lands they live in.  

He sends Altenna away out of love, and he knows perhaps likely he may fall in battle, he'd rather Altenna does not as well.  He's resigned himself to fight and likely die along with his soldiers to protect the civilians of Thracia as well as Altenna.  He even says "I won't go easy on you!"  As in don't hesitate if we meet on the battlefield.  

 

 

If he really believed the empire is so powerful that it can't be beaten, then why send Altenna to the army that's about to face them in open war? And couldn't they show like a single line of dialogue to suggest he's intimidated by Julius? Areone having any feelings towards the empire (either fear or loyalty) is entirely conjecture as he never once mentioned them (at least from what I can remember, and I probably quoted almost every lone of dialogue he has in the OP).

[Lewyn]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

If he really believed the empire is so powerful that it can't be beaten, then why send Altenna to the army that's about to face them in open war? And couldn't they show like a single line of dialogue to suggest he's intimidated by Julius? Areone having any feelings towards the empire (either fear or loyalty) is entirely conjecture as he never once mentioned them (at least from what I can remember, and I probably quoted almost every lone of dialogue he has in the OP).

True is conjecture and I'm just trying to make sense of the dialogue.  I mean we aren't analyzing a work by Ovid or Tolstoy here, we are analyzing a game.  I'd still like to give benefit of the doubt, that their was indeed a purpose to it.  I think the power of Grannvale, the cult, Julius, Arvis was well known.  His father was obviously well acquainted with Grannvale and their strength, and I'm sure he let Julius in on it.  

As for sending Altenna then to the liberation army who is facing this really powerful opponent.  He knows he has to face the liberation army cause of potential consequences should he not, and he knows likely the liberation army is stronger.  Plus sending Altenna to Leif, her brother, it feels right for after that, after Travant suicided himself.  

[Acacia Sgt]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

If he really believed the empire is so powerful that it can't be beaten, then why send Altenna to the army that's about to face them in open war? And couldn't they show like a single line of dialogue to suggest he's intimidated by Julius? Areone having any feelings towards the empire (either fear or loyalty) is entirely conjecture as he never once mentioned them (at least from what I can remember, and I probably quoted almost every lone of dialogue he has in the OP).

Maybe it's not so much the Empire against the Liberation Army, but the threat the Empire can pose to Thraccia if they no longer have a use. I mean, when you have stuff like warping mages and the like, that's one way to have the people threatened, and not much could be done about it. Also, there was that Loptyr Priest in charge of one of the Thraccian castles. It shows they already had a grip in the country, and it could become worse.

Now, this is just conjecture, since as you say nothing is ever really mentioned; but perhaps things changed during the time Arione was at Grannvale after Julius took him. His dialogue once he shows up in the final chapter goes:

Quote

“Men, we’ve lost the homeland… Capturing Chalphy Castle shall be the first step in recovering it. Now go forth with the pride that comes with being a Thracian Dragon Knight!!”

It's hard to say what exactly this means by loosing the homeland. Perhaps, after Thraccia's army being decimated, Grannvale troops did took over? Or he means the Loptyr Cult? As I mentioned, perhaps during his time as Julius's "Guest", he became aware of Julia's capture, and she being the only one that could stop Loptyr. Maybe he thought the Liberation Army was now fighting a hopeless battle, and thinks that by fighting them he can at least be granted Thraccia back?

Again, just conjecture at this point.

[Jotari]

12 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Maybe it's not so much the Empire against the Liberation Army, but the threat the Empire can pose to Thraccia if they no longer have a use. I mean, when you have stuff like warping mages and the like, that's one way to have the people threatened, and not much could be done about it. Also, there was that Loptyr Priest in charge of one of the Thraccian castles. It shows they already had a grip in the country, and it could become worse.

Now, this is just conjecture, since as you say nothing is ever really mentioned; but perhaps things changed during the time Arione was at Grannvale after Julius took him. His dialogue once he shows up in the final chapter goes:

It's hard to say what exactly this means by loosing the homeland. Perhaps, after Thraccia's army being decimated, Grannvale troops did took over? Or he means the Loptyr Cult? As I mentioned, perhaps during his time as Julius's "Guest", he became aware of Julia's capture, and she being the only one that could stop Loptyr. Maybe he thought the Liberation Army was now fighting a hopeless battle, and thinks that by fighting them he can at least be granted Thraccia back?

Again, just conjecture at this point.

I take it to mean the Liberation Army had taken control of Thracia. As the name implies, they are liberating these place. They're not just a roving band of super soldiers. Presumably they're setting up adminstrations in their wake and we just don't learn about it because it's boring.

On the other hand, Areone does fly in from the South East and I don't think there's anything in that direction other than Thracia.

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I take it to mean the Liberation Army had taken control of Thracia. As the name implies, they are liberating these place. They're not just a roving band of super soldiers. Presumably they're setting up adminstrations in their wake and we just don't learn about it because it's boring.

On the other hand, Areone does fly in from the South East and I don't think there's anything in that direction other than Thracia.

Perhaps so. Either way, it can still tie to the "He can potentially becomes aware that the only person that could take Julius/Loptyr down is now his prisoner", hence why he'd still be so cooperative about taking down the Liberation Army rather than just head back to Thraccia and take it back if he needs to.

[Jotari]

27 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

True is conjecture and I'm just trying to make sense of the dialogue.  I mean we aren't analyzing a work by Ovid or Tolstoy here, we are analyzing a game.  I'd still like to give benefit of the doubt, that their was indeed a purpose to it.  I think the power of Grannvale, the cult, Julius, Arvis was well known.  His father was obviously well acquainted with Grannvale and their strength, and I'm sure he let Julius in on it.  

As for sending Altenna then to the liberation army who is facing this really powerful opponent.  He knows he has to face the liberation army cause of potential consequences should he not, and he knows likely the liberation army is stronger.  Plus sending Altenna to Leif, her brother, it feels right for after that, after Travant suicided himself.  

The thing is, it really wouldn't have been that hard at all to push the narrative that the empire is putting pressure on Areone to fight. It'd just take a single scene with a Lopt priest, or even a single line about prince Julius from Areone (they do at least seem to know each other).

5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Perhaps so. Either way, it can still tie to the "He can potentially becomes aware that the only person that could take Julius/Loptyr down is now his prisoner", hence why he'd still be so cooperative about taking down the Liberation Army rather than just head back to Thraccia and take it back if he needs to.

The funny thing is that his decision to fight the liberation army makes the most sense in the last chapter when he's already lost his homeland and comitted to the fight...and then that's the battle where he changes side and joins Altenna, despite the fact that she didn't really say anthing more poignant than before. Maybe at that point he decided to join her since he'd lost Thracia one way or the other and couldn't use it as a justifable reason to fight against her?

Edited March 27, 2018 by Jotari

[Morswo]

Areone is really hard to understand, I think he just don't know what he really want.  I was a bit salty about his decision, since I was hoping to play him.

13 hours ago, Jotari said:

Maybe at that point he decided to join her since he'd lost Thracia one way or the other and couldn't use it as a justifable reason to fight against her?

I thins think that this could be one reason, Thracia was the best reason the fight against her, without Thracia is he unable to fight against Altenna.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Where does it say that Seliph needed to pass through Thracia to get to Miletos (assuming they had already chosen that as their next destination?)?

Looking at the map, it appears they could have just crossed from Melgen.

Spoiler

The ingame map of Chapter 7 doesn't align too well with this, and conveniently leaves the Miletos border off the edge and unseen.

Spoiler

The liberation army mind you already passed through Yied Desert, and Thracia is no rolling Aurelian/Sacaean/Crimean plains by any stretch of the lore- that is more Manster District. So unless the Miletos-Manster border was really really really bad terrain, Seliph should just shifted back to the west, leaving a force to defend Manster after concluding a peace agreement with Thracia, and then invaded Miletos from Manster. 

The only reason why Thracia has to be passed through, is because FE4 wants to show you every country in the world. FE6 wanted to do the same, with the result being the rather filler Western Isles journey (which might have originally ended with Roy becoming King of the Western Isles), and the Sacae-Ilia split- which makes no sense that you can conquer Ilia without Sacae and still get to Bern. Radiant Dawn was also ambitious with Part 3, but it kept the conflict in Crimea, Daein, and Begnion, with only a brief peaceful moment in Gallia and Goldoa (although I could have liked some fighting in Gallia and not just at the Crimean-Gallian border). Never do you visit Phoenicis or Kilvas at all either. This is largely a logical decision.

 

On 3/27/2018 at 6:39 PM, Acacia Sgt said:

Also, there was that Loptyr Priest in charge of one of the Thraccian castles. It shows they already had a grip in the country, and it could become worse.

His lines are:

Spoiler

 and, dispatched from the empire, the Dark Bishop Judah held Grutia Castle.

 

Trabant:
“Bishop Judah, will Emperor Alvis uphold our pact and send me some reinforcements?”

Judah:
“Aren’t we the cautious one… Rest assured a battalion of knights are on their way.”

 

Judah:
“Kapathogia has fallen to the enemy!? Hrmph, Thracia has proven utterly worthless! Alright, fortify our defense! We must hold the castle until the reinforcements arrive!”

 

The reinforcements are Musar's troops. His words:

Musar:
“So this is Thracia… Heh, what a godforsaken wasteland. The rebel army has gone far enough. Troops, prepare to attack. His Majesty has placed a bounty on the enemy. Now show me what you’ve got!”

Grannvale and Thracia weren't exactly friendly to each other, particularly when one of them has conquered most of the known world. But was the relationship more neutrality or friendly alliance? Thracia could not turn down Grannvalian "diplomats" given the Empire's greater strength. Could it be neutrality turned to something else once Manster began to fall? It seems there was a NATO-like "an attack on one is an attack on all" clause in the alliance, but Grannvale didn't feel the need to activate it until they saw they were losing in Manster.

 

Also, what is the title of Chapter 9? For Whose Sake. The game appears to be questioning Arion's judgement call right from the start.

I think another thing FE4 could have ran with for Arion and Travant, is that Seliph supports the restoration of Manster, under a son of Quan. Leif is also Seliph's first cousin, which for a Medieval world would suggests Seliph, the future leader of a liberated Grannvale being the son of Empress Deidre and the talented Liberation Army leader, would lean on Manster's side in peninsular disputes. Although the present empire has frustrated Travant's ambitions to unite the peninsula, perhaps it has been friendlier on the whole than an independent Manster District ever was. Verdane appears to have escaped Grannvalian rule- maybe the barren mountains of Thracia would have also been too unappealing to conquer? 

So, Travant and Arion would demand that Seliph hand over Leif or swear by complete neutrality in all peninsular disputes. Seliph would be unable to answer these remarks satisfactorily, partly because Leif refuses to abide by them and eggs on Seliph to invade or ask for better terms of peace. Time enough passes that Travant attacks or Seliph preemptively strikes, Travant dies, and Arion has a logical explanation to continue fighting- letting Leif reign in Manster will only continue Thracia's suffering. But this would mean undermining the Seliph And Lewyn Show that the plot of Gen 2 is in the hero camp by adding, egads, Leif as a co-protagonist from 7-9.

Leif already has this in Chapter 9 to build on:

Spoiler

(Trabant vs Leaf)

Trabant:
“Heheheh… So you’re Cuan’s son. Blume should’ve taken care of you while he had the chance.”

Leaf:
“Trabant, we meet at last… I… I’ve waited so long for this day to arrive… I’ve dreamed of killing you with my bare hands, and I’ve lived to carry it out!!”

Trabant:
“Hmph… you fool… You can’t even use the Gayborg, and you think you can defeat me!? Die, you little brat! I’ll do to you what I did to Cuan!”

 

[Jotari]

16 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

snip

I guess needing to go to Miletos was a bit of an assumption on my part. Here's what the story does address as to why the liberation army is fighting the battle.

Levin:
“A battalion of Dragon Knights just left Thracia. Get ready, Celice. We’re going back in.”

Celice:
“But Levin, the empire is our enemy. Is there any reason we should take on Thracia, too?”

Levin:
“The reasons’ll become apparent if you handle this properly. This battle is already well underway, Celice. There’s no going back.”

Celice:
“But the dragon knight on that mountain top back there… She looked so sad. The thought of having to fight her as well…”

Levin:
“Celice! Get over it!! This is war. If you can’t handle the heat, then you belong back at Tilnanogue!”

Celice:
“Levin…”

Oifey:
“Levin, his Majesty is a little tired, it’s unnecessary to mention that…”

Levin:
“I know. But everyone is doing their best. We don’t have time to stay here doing nothing. We have to return to Grandbell as fast as possible and stop Loputousu’s resurrection. Otherwise, the world will be destroyed.”

Celice:
“Oifey, Levin is right, I was wrong. If we cannot avoid battle, then it is our duty to give sense to this battle. Let’s go, Levin, Oifey,I do not want to turn my back away from the path I have chosen anymore!”

So basically Levin refuses to answer and essentially says deal with it, the plot insists that we do. Though he does also kind of push the idea that Thracia was the aggressor (puppet master that he is), due to them trying to attack Munster in the previous chapter. I think the fact that Thracia has Dragon Knights means that they can't conceivably leave Thracia be. They either need to leave on friendly terms or eradicate them, to avoid exactly what happens in the Final Chapter from happening (ie, Areone's counter assualt on Chalphy, except if they didn't crush Thracia, it would have happened on a larger scale they couldn't defend against).

I do like your suggestion as how to it should have been handled. Leif really should have had a larger voice in this chapter, instead of just being regulated to the Altenna stuff and the convo with Travant. 

[Tetragrammaton]

9 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Where does it say that Seliph needed to pass through Thracia to get to Miletos (assuming they had already chosen that as their next destination?)?

Looking at the map, it appears they could have just crossed from Melgen.

  Reveal hidden contents

The ingame map of Chapter 7 doesn't align too well with this, and conveniently leaves the Miletos border off the edge and unseen.

  Reveal hidden contents

The liberation army mind you already passed through Yied Desert, and Thracia is no rolling Aurelian/Sacaean/Crimean plains by any stretch of the lore- that is more Manster District. So unless the Miletos-Manster border was really really really bad terrain, Seliph should just shifted back to the west, leaving a force to defend Manster after concluding a peace agreement with Thracia, and then invaded Miletos from Manster. 

The only reason why Thracia has to be passed through, is because FE4 wants to show you every country in the world. FE6 wanted to do the same, with the result being the rather filler Western Isles journey (which might have originally ended with Roy becoming King of the Western Isles), and the Sacae-Ilia split- which makes no sense that you can conquer Ilia without Sacae and still get to Bern. Radiant Dawn was also ambitious with Part 3, but it kept the conflict in Crimea, Daein, and Begnion, with only a brief peaceful moment in Gallia and Goldoa (although I could have liked some fighting in Gallia and not just at the Crimean-Gallian border). Never do you visit Phoenicis or Kilvas at all either. This is largely a logical decision.

 

His lines are:

  Reveal hidden contents

 and, dispatched from the empire, the Dark Bishop Judah held Grutia Castle.

 

Trabant:
“Bishop Judah, will Emperor Alvis uphold our pact and send me some reinforcements?”

Judah:
“Aren’t we the cautious one… Rest assured a battalion of knights are on their way.”

 

Judah:
“Kapathogia has fallen to the enemy!? Hrmph, Thracia has proven utterly worthless! Alright, fortify our defense! We must hold the castle until the reinforcements arrive!”

 

The reinforcements are Musar's troops. His words:

Musar:
“So this is Thracia… Heh, what a godforsaken wasteland. The rebel army has gone far enough. Troops, prepare to attack. His Majesty has placed a bounty on the enemy. Now show me what you’ve got!”

Grannvale and Thracia weren't exactly friendly to each other, particularly when one of them has conquered most of the known world. But was the relationship more neutrality or friendly alliance? Thracia could not turn down Grannvalian "diplomats" given the Empire's greater strength. Could it be neutrality turned to something else once Manster began to fall? It seems there was a NATO-like "an attack on one is an attack on all" clause in the alliance, but Grannvale didn't feel the need to activate it until they saw they were losing in Manster.

 

Also, what is the title of Chapter 9? For Whose Sake. The game appears to be questioning Arion's judgement call right from the start.

I think another thing FE4 could have ran with for Arion and Travant, is that Seliph supports the restoration of Manster, under a son of Quan. Leif is also Seliph's first cousin, which for a Medieval world would suggests Seliph, the future leader of a liberated Grannvale being the son of Empress Deidre and the talented Liberation Army leader, would lean on Manster's side in peninsular disputes. Although the present empire has frustrated Travant's ambitions to unite the peninsula, perhaps it has been friendlier on the whole than an independent Manster District ever was. Verdane appears to have escaped Grannvalian rule- maybe the barren mountains of Thracia would have also been too unappealing to conquer? 

So, Travant and Arion would demand that Seliph hand over Leif or swear by complete neutrality in all peninsular disputes. Seliph would be unable to answer these remarks satisfactorily, partly because Leif refuses to abide by them and eggs on Seliph to invade or ask for better terms of peace. Time enough passes that Travant attacks or Seliph preemptively strikes, Travant dies, and Arion has a logical explanation to continue fighting- letting Leif reign in Manster will only continue Thracia's suffering. But this would mean undermining the Seliph And Lewyn Show that the plot of Gen 2 is in the hero camp by adding, egads, Leif as a co-protagonist from 7-9.

Leif already has this in Chapter 9 to build on:

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(Trabant vs Leaf)

Trabant:
“Heheheh… So you’re Cuan’s son. Blume should’ve taken care of you while he had the chance.”

Leaf:
“Trabant, we meet at last… I… I’ve waited so long for this day to arrive… I’ve dreamed of killing you with my bare hands, and I’ve lived to carry it out!!”

Trabant:
“Hmph… you fool… You can’t even use the Gayborg, and you think you can defeat me!? Die, you little brat! I’ll do to you what I did to Cuan!”

 

Someone talked about it here