Spring Ninja: Kagero

[Poimagic]

 Description: “One of Ryoma’s retainers, and a ninja of Hoshido. She was given the mission to participate in the spring festival, and she is fulfilling that duty.”

Kagero arrives, being the first flying dagger, and has some huge, amazing...stats and skills! Being on of the daggers in the new era of actually offensive daggers, she comes with amazing atk and spd, and even has a little bit of res to boot

Super boon in bold, super bane is italics 

Stats: HP: 36 | Atk: 35 | Spd: 34 | Def:18 | Res: 27 | BST: 149-151

Staring Skills:

Weapon: Lethal Carrot+

Special: Glimmer

A Slot Skill: Spd/Res Bond 3

B Slot Skill: Live for Honor

C Slot Skill: Goad Fliers

Hyper Offensive (Optimal Build)

Spoiler

Recommend Iv’s: +atk/+spd/-hp/-def

Weapon: Kogami Mochi+ (+spd) | Lethal Carrot+ (+spd) | Barbed Shuriken+ (+spd)

Support: Repostion | Draw Back | Reciprocal Aid | Ardent Sacrifice

Special: Luna | Draconic Aura | Dragon Fang | Glacies | Iceberg | Moonbow | Glimmer

A Slot Skill: Fury | Life and Death | Swift Sparrow | Brazen Atk/Spd | Res/Spd Bond

B Slot Skill: Desperation | Flier Formation

C Slot Skill: Goad Fliers | Flexible

Sacred Seal: Quickend Pulse | Guidance | Spd+3 | Brash Assult | Heavy Blade

This is Kagero’s most flexible build, with it being mostly revolving around her weapon and A Slot. If Kogami Mochi or Barbed Shuriken is one of her weapons, then any of the three to four cd specials would work. Lethal Carrot works better with Glimmer and Moonbow, due to it being low enough cooldown to easily activate the carrot’s eff. Fury and Life & Death are her best options for the A Slot, due to how they improve her stats with to specific of requirements. Brazen Atk/Spd and Swift Sparrow are higher scoring A Slot’s that are good options, but Brazen Atk/Spd gimps her first round of combat while Swift sparrow can hurt her during enemy phase of left unattended. Spd/Res Bond is a budget option, due to its very specific positioning requirement. That is why it’s recommended to use with Flier Formation, so she can get close to her allies. Otherwise, go Desperation, as it makes her a monster when combined with something like Brazen Atk/Spd. Her C Slot is Flexible, but the best options are a physical buff, a spur or drive, guidance (if you are not using the seal), and even Ploy skills. For her Sacred Seal, Quickend pulse can allow her to get one turn Glacies or Dragon Fang with Kogami Mochi, so long she doubles. Brash Assult and spd+3 can allow her to double easier under the right circumstances, while Guidance is a good Support option. Heavy Blade is an option, but only if you really believe in her atk power

Debuffer/Buffer 

Spoiler

Recommend Iv’s: +spd/-anything

Weapons: Rouge Dagger+ (+spd) | Smoke Dagger+ (+spd)

Support: Repostion | Draw Back

Special: Iceberg | Luna | Draconic Aura | Glimmer

A Slot Skill: Life and Death

B Slot Skill: Watersweep | Windsweep

C Slot Skill: Goad Fliers | Savage Blow | Res Smoke | Def Smoke | Atk Smoke | Spd Smoke

Sacred Seal: Phantom Spd | Spd+3 | Savage Blow | Atk Smoke

This build just wants Kagero to go in, weaken the enemy, then have her allies to come in and wreck the weakened enemy. If you’re running Rouge Dagger, you can stack either smoke skills or savage blow to buff your allies while you hurt you enemies. For smoke dagger, you can run double savage blow to weaken your enemies further. Phantom spd or spd+3 are both options for her Sacred seal as they allow her to potentially activate Watersweep or windsweep more often. As for windsweep or watersweep, it depends. If your team can handle the things windsweep covers, then go watersweep. Vice versa for going windsweep. Water sweep is more recommend due to its easier availablilty

Remake of the Orginal (Arena Assult)

Spoiler

Recommend Iv’s: +atk/+spd/-hp/-def/-res

Weapon: Kitty Paddle+ (+spd or +atk) | Poison Dagger+

Support: Reposition | Draw Back

Special: Luna | Moonbow | Glimmer

A Slot Skill: Death Blow | Life and Death

B Slot Skill: Vantage | Cancel Affinity

C Slot Skill: Goad Fliers | Flexible

This build just wants Kagero to absolutely destroy the unit type she is meant to fight

Feel free to ask questions and make suggestions of your own

Edited June 2, 2018 by Poimagic

[Poimagic]

I shall add explanations for the three builds later. Til then

[Poimagic]

And done. Will be taking suggestions for the builds and such.

[BANRYU]

Okay so I have a question. Do the Poison Dagger/Kitty Paddle builds actually do anything better than the other two, particularly the Mochi/Carrot build? Barring very specific instances like maybe refined Leo, I have a little trouble buying that either effective weapon is better than just running an all-around offensive weapon. If there are specific things that she can only or more easily beat with those I'd be very interested to know who or what, otherwise I feel like that last build might be kinda unnecessary. 

Edited April 2, 2018 by BANRYU

[Jonnas]

I pulled a +Res/-Spd Kagero and, despite the unfortunate bane, she's been pretty good at baiting and killing mages. These roles are uncommon in all-flier teams (on a small budget, at least), so maybe a build focused on that would be worth mentioning.

[Poimagic]

On 4/1/2018 at 8:31 PM, BANRYU said:

Okay so I have a question. Do the Poison Dagger/Kitty Paddle builds actually do anything better than the other two, particularly the Mochi/Carrot build? Barring very specific instances like maybe refined Leo, I have a little trouble buying that either effective weapon is better than just running an all-around offensive weapon. If there are specific things that she can only or more easily beat with those I'd be very interested to know who or what, otherwise I feel like that last build might be kinda unnecessary. 

Poison dagger, when shown with the Arctic silver fox calculator showed Poison dagger, with the Glimmer, DB, CA version, go a lot more kills the expected. Kitty Paddle got a lot less kills, but killed more meta prevalent units, like Nino and C!Tharja

53 minutes ago, Jonnas said:

I pulled a +Res/-Spd Kagero and, despite the unfortunate bane, she's been pretty good at baiting and killing mages. These roles are uncommon in all-flier teams (on a small budget, at least), so maybe a build focused on that would be worth mentioning.

What idea for a build did you have in mind? I have an idea for a mage tank build, but want to hear what you have in mind first

Edited April 3, 2018 by Poimagic

[Jonnas]

19 hours ago, Poimagic said:

What idea for a build did you have in mind? I have an idea for a mage tank build, but want to hear what you have in mind first

Her base kit is already pretty good for the role, so I was thinking of just adding a Distant Def 3 seal, Iceberg for her proc (even assuming you're not running Fortify/Ward fliers, Kagero can reach 38 Res with this build, 41 if she's +Res), plus the usual Reposition/Swap for the Assist slot. This leaves us the B slot, which can be filled with Desperation (she can still reach excellent speeds with proper Hone/Goad support), G Tomebreaker (if Nino scares you that much), Flier Formation (generally useful in flier teams) or Vantage (could be useful in specific situations, like proccing Iceberg on a bow user). [EDIT: It just occurred to me that Cancel Affinity is also an option, to deal with potential raven users]

Alternatively, if you are running Fortify/Ward fliers, you could make her into a more all-purpose ranged counter by giving her the Iote's Shield seal and then Bowbreaker (or, again, Vantage) for the B skill. The obvious caveat being that she still loses matchups against Brave Bows.

(Keep in mind I didn't run any simulations or anything. I'm just throwing ideas)

Edited April 4, 2018 by Jonnas

[BANRYU]

21 hours ago, Poimagic said:

Poison dagger, when shown with the Arctic silver fox calculator showed Poison dagger, with the Glimmer, DB, CA version, go a lot more kills the expected. Kitty Paddle got a lot less kills, but killed more meta prevalent units, like Nino and C!Tharja

Ah, okay... erm... let me see if I can be more specific then. 

What specific advantages does Poison Dagger offer over the other builds (and likewise for the kitty paddle)? Like, what does a build with these weapons accomplish that the MochiCarrot build doesn't already? If there ARE indeed specific targets that these builds can defeat that her others can't (C!Tharja seems like a pretty substantial one off the bat), they should be listed in the analysis as incentive for using these builds-- basically, I'm asking why would you WANT to kill a regKagero or a Nyakura instead of just using her default weapon? What more does it accomplish that her regular weapon can't? 

That's what I want to know. I hope that's clearer... 

[XRay]

13 hours ago, Jonnas said:

Her base kit is already pretty good for the role, so I was thinking of just adding a Distant Def 3 seal, Iceberg for her proc (even assuming you're not running Fortify/Ward fliers, Kagero can reach 38 Res with this build, 41 if she's +Res), plus the usual Reposition/Swap for the Assist slot. This leaves us the B slot, which can be filled with Desperation (she can still reach excellent speeds with proper Hone/Goad support), G Tomebreaker (if Nino scares you that much), Flier Formation (generally useful in flier teams) or Vantage (could be useful in specific situations, like proccing Iceberg on a bow user). [EDIT: It just occurred to me that Cancel Affinity is also an option, to deal with potential raven users]

Alternatively, if you are running Fortify/Ward fliers, you could make her into a more all-purpose ranged counter by giving her the Iote's Shield seal and then Bowbreaker (or, again, Vantage) for the B skill. The obvious caveat being that she still loses matchups against Brave Bows.

(Keep in mind I didn't run any simulations or anything. I'm just throwing ideas)

Fliers cannot run Bowbreaker, and I would not run Iote's Shield on her as BH!Lyn still has no trouble punching through HATF!Kagero's low Spd/Def. If you are patching up HATF!Kagero's Spd to avoid death from Mulagir, then Brave Bow will annihilate her; if you are patching her Def to withstand Brave Bow, then Mulagir will double her and kill her with a Moonbow activation. In my opinion, bow countering/tanking is best left to Raven mages and beefy units in Ward Armor/Ward Dragon teams. HATF!Kagero's Enemy Phase niche is against mages, so it is better for her to focus on magical threats and let someone else handle physical threats.

The following is relatively cheap to build, and as long as she has the following nature, the only mages she cannot tank are Celica, Reinhardt, and Bold Fighter armor mages.

HATF!Kagero +Spd -Def
Lethal Carrot [Spd], Moonbow/Glimmer
Spd/Res Bond, Dull Ranged
Quick Riposte

Walling Celica requires HATF!Kagero to Spd stack further with Speed +3 Sacred Seal, which leaves HATF!Kagero vulnerable to Wings of Mercy shenanigans since she will be leaving plenty of mages alive. Tanking Reinhardt requires her to run +Res and Res Refinement, which leaves her vulnerable Speed Stacked Linde and SM!Eirika, and similarly fast mages with an extra merge or two above HATF!Kagero. Walling Atk stacked Death Blow-Bold Fighter mages is impossible at the moment without color advantage and Triangle Adept.

49 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

What specific advantages does Poison Dagger offer over the other builds (and likewise for the kitty paddle)? Like, what does a build with these weapons accomplish that the MochiCarrot build doesn't already? If there ARE indeed specific targets that these builds can defeat that her others can't (C!Tharja seems like a pretty substantial one off the bat), they should be listed in the analysis as incentive for using these builds-- basically, I'm asking why would you WANT to kill a regKagero or a Nyakura instead of just using her default weapon? What more does it accomplish that her regular weapon can't? 

I think Poison Dagger and Kitty Paddle are more for Arena Assault. As effective Weapons, they make focusing on killing things in one shot viable for the wielder.

Kitty Paddle is especially effective due to mages' generally crap Def.

Poison Dagger is not as stellar in my opinion due to the lower Mt and a lot of infantry units are bulky and run Distant Counter.  You can still use it as a poor man's Kitty Paddle against mage infantry, but against melee infantry and loli infantry, you will need Windsweep and Watersweep and probably Dancer/Singer support to effectively counter them. If you do not have enough Nagas and Falchions, less commonly used dagger units like Jakob, Matthew, and Saizo can specialize against lolis with Poison Dagger-Watersweep.

[BANRYU]

47 minutes ago, XRay said:

I think Poison Dagger and Kitty Paddle are more for Arena Assault. As effective Weapons, they make focusing on killing things in one shot viable for the wielder.

Kitty Paddle is especially effective due to mages' generally crap Def.

Poison Dagger is not as stellar in my opinion due to the lower Mt and a lot of infantry units are bulky and run Distant Counter.  You can still use it as a poor man's Kitty Paddle against mage infantry, but against melee infantry and loli infantry, you will need Windsweep and Watersweep and probably Dancer/Singer support to effectively counter them. If you do not have enough Nagas and Falchions, less commonly used dagger units like Jakob, Matthew, and Saizo can specialize against lolis with Poison Dagger-Watersweep.

If it's as a thing that's relegated for Arena Assault or being described as 'poor man's' anything (which is kind of inherently contradictory in this case since you'd need to sack a 5* unit for it, one of them being a limited unit), I feel like it's probably not worth replacing her default weapon, and thus not worth a separate analysis / build writeup :0 That's sort of what I was trying to get at, or debunk my skepticism about... But so far it doesn't seem like there's much of a case that dissuades said skepticism, aside from the possibility of beating Xmas Tharja with the Kitty Paddle (although if either of the two crit weapons can do that, then there's no reason for it really). 

Edited April 4, 2018 by BANRYU

[LordFrigid]

@BANRYU From a different philosophical standpoint, I don't see a problem with including a write-up for any viable build (which Poison Dagger/Kitty Paddle certainly are, with that Atk stat & access to flier support).

But out of curiosity, I took a quick look, and it seems that the big draw of using effective damage over a Special-amplifying weapon is (unsurprisingly) the lack of dependence on a special activation. +Atk/Fury/Kitty Paddle with a Hone Fliers buff will straight-up OHKO most non-Raven mages with Fury/Distant Def seal. Dull Ranged exists for buffed enemies assuming the user isn't afraid of Raven/Adept.

Similar deal for Poison Dagger. OHKOs Ayra (DC/Distant Def), for example (albeit barely).

It basically cuts out dependence on Specials, and to a lesser extent, Desperation (and the Heavy Blade requirement for Carrot/Desperation sets that still want a one-round special activation).

~

One thing I just thought of, actually, is that you effectively ran all the numbers you could possibly want for those builds when you did the Kagero (Honorable Ninja) analysis, since flying Kagero is basically infantry Kagero with a more offense-optimized stat spread (more HP & Spd, less Def and a smidgen less Res) and access to move-type-based buffs. You also haven't removed your own Kitty Paddle/Poison Dagger write up.

Edited April 5, 2018 by LordFrigid

[Jonnas]

7 hours ago, XRay said:

Fliers cannot run Bowbreaker, and I would not run Iote's Shield on her as BH!Lyn still has no trouble punching through HATF!Kagero's low Spd/Def. If you are patching up HATF!Kagero's Spd to avoid death from Mulagir, then Brave Bow will annihilate her; if you are patching her Def to withstand Brave Bow, then Mulagir will double her and kill her with a Moonbow activation. In my opinion, bow countering/tanking is best left to Raven mages and beefy units in Ward Armor/Ward Dragon teams. HATF!Kagero's Enemy Phase niche is against mages, so it is better for her to focus on magical threats and let someone else handle physical threats.

 

Didn't know about that. Kinda obvious in retrospect. It was a pretty farfetched idea in the first place, I suppose.

7 hours ago, XRay said:

The following is relatively cheap to build, and as long as she has the following nature, the only mages she cannot tank are Celica, Reinhardt, and Bold Fighter armor mages.

HATF!Kagero +Spd -Def
Lethal Carrot [Spd], Moonbow/Glimmer
Spd/Res Bond, Dull Ranged
Quick Riposte

Walling Celica requires HATF!Kagero to Spd stack further with Speed +3 Sacred Seal, which leaves HATF!Kagero vulnerable to Wings of Mercy shenanigans since she will be leaving plenty of mages alive. Tanking Reinhardt requires her to run +Res and Res Refinement, which leaves her vulnerable Speed Stacked Linde and SM!Eirika, and similarly fast mages with an extra merge or two above HATF!Kagero. Walling Atk stacked Death Blow-Bold Fighter mages is impossible at the moment without color advantage and Triangle Adept.

If you're running a speed-focused build, why Quick Riposte? Seems redundant, and Distant Def would help a lot more in that situation. QR looks more appropriate for the +Res focus you mentioned, and would be guaranteed to kill the likes of Reinhardt or Celica (not sure about the armours).

[XRay]

1 minute ago, Jonnas said:

Didn't know about that. Kinda obvious in retrospect. It was a pretty farfetched idea in the first place, I suppose.

If you're running a speed-focused build, why Quick Riposte? Seems redundant, and Distant Def would help a lot more in that situation. QR looks more appropriate for the +Res focus you mentioned, and would be guaranteed to kill the likes of Reinhardt or Celica (not sure about the armours).

Quick Riposte is necessary to take out fast mages. Mages maybe physically fragile, but many of them have just enough bulk to survive one hit from HATF!Kagero. Leaving enemies at low health instead of killing them leaves the team vulnerable to enemy Vantage and Wings of Mercy units

Quick Riposte and Speed stacking serve two distinct purposes. Quick Riposte is an offensive skill to ensure that the unit always double the enemy, assuming the unit survives. On the other hand, Speed stacking is a defensive set of skills/nature to prevent enemies from doubling the unit.

Countering unbuffed Celica and Reinhardt means that you are not running Dull Ranged, which leaves HATF!Kagero vulnerable to buffed mages. In my opinion, being able to take on the vast majority of buffed mages is more important than being able to take on unbuffed Celica and Reinhardt.

Death Blow-Bold Fighter mages cannot be safely/reliably tanked without Triangle Adept or Guard Bow. Using WE!Tharja [+Atk, Candelabra [Atk], Luna Death Blow, Bold Fighter, Attack +3] as an example, in the calculator, giving all colorless enemies  +5, +Res, and Distant Def-Distant Def overwrite, only Wrys could eat her Special and survive with 2 HP. Faye survived because she could not counter attack to help trigger the Special and TOD!Jakob survived because he ran Wary Fighter. TOD!Sakura manages to kill WE!Tharja by slowing her Special trigger with Guard while dealing enough damage. Archers can run Guard Bow and that helps them out a lot, but HATF!Kagero does not have access to that as a dagger unit; Seashell is the closest equivalent, but that is not enough.

[Poimagic]

Added the Barbed Shuriken as an option for the optiaml build

[Charmeleonbrah]

I'd add Heavy Blade Sacred Seal to the offensive build.  Lethal Carrot+Glimmer+Heavy Blade SS will do a lot of damage.  Spring Kagero is meant to be run on a flier team, and if she gets Hone Fliers buffs she can one-shot pretty much anything with that build in Desperation range.  And after all, using your favorite fanservice waifus to one-shot every unit on the field is what this game is about, right?

[Lewyn]

21 hours ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

I'd add Heavy Blade Sacred Seal to the offensive build.  Lethal Carrot+Glimmer+Heavy Blade SS will do a lot of damage.  Spring Kagero is meant to be run on a flier team, and if she gets Hone Fliers buffs she can one-shot pretty much anything with that build in Desperation range.  And after all, using your favorite fanservice waifus to one-shot every unit on the field is what this game is about, right?

Ninjabbit attacks are deadly.  I second this, heavy blade goes really well on Spring Kagero particularly if you have attack boon.