Valentia Accordion Translation Project Thread

[VincentASM]

16 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

No, because Xane explicitly says that Naga died, not be put to sleep. They know the difference. Not to mention Gotoh never explicitly mentions that you will kill Medeus with Falchion either, merely defeat. The only time he ever refers to something as death with Medeus is after he is defeated for the last time in New Mystery, saying that Medeus was destroyed. That's because beforehand, he knew that Medeus's life force being so high would allow him to survive the the battle and only be rendered to a deep sleep.

Whether she "died" or not, the point is that the games make it quite clear that Nagi and Naga are one and the same. Medeus clearly recognises her and her appearance in Awakening is very, very similar.

Of course, we don't know really know transpired between Naga's death and her reawakening as Nagi, but the simplest explanation would be that Naga kept her old body somehow. Perhaps the "coffin" she was in, was some kind of advanced stasis pod, not unlike the one Link wakes up from at the start of Breath of the Wild.

The other mystery is what exactly was Naga/Nagi doing in another Outrealm? Was she hiding there? And where or what is this Outrealm? But that's probably a subject for a whole other topic...

[omegaxis1]

16 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

Whether she "died" or not, the point is that the games make it quite clear that Nagi and Naga are one and the same. Medeus clearly recognises her and her appearance in Awakening is very, very similar.

Of course, we don't know really know transpired between Naga's death and her reawakening as Nagi, but the simplest explanation would be that Naga kept her old body somehow. Perhaps the "coffin" she was in, was some kind of advanced stasis pod, not unlike the one Link wakes up from at the start of Breath of the Wild.

The other mystery is what exactly was Naga/Nagi doing in another Outrealm? Was she hiding there? And where or what is this Outrealm? But that's probably a subject for a whole other topic...

I have no doubt they'll be making many connections in new remakes.

However, I do think that Naga died for real and she revived in a new body. I don't think you can actually use a corpse for a body anymore. And Nagi being older than Tiki means that Nagi could not have been born normally.

[VincentASM]

18 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I have no doubt they'll be making many connections in new remakes.

However, I do think that Naga died for real and she revived in a new body. I don't think you can actually use a corpse for a body anymore. And Nagi being older than Tiki means that Nagi could not have been born normally.

Fair enough, we've never canonically seen Naga before she died, so we don't know what she looked like before.

Still, for some reason, I can just imagine Naga having the same body before and after. Plus, if it is a new body, that poses the question of how it was made or where it came from. That said, if the dragonkin have knowledge of--and ways to travel to--parallel worlds, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some pretty crazy technology.

Anyway, moving back to Valentia for a bit... Reading Japanese message boards, there seems to a pretty interesting minor revelation about the Falchion, which some people probably guessed. I'm gonna wait for the page to appear before commenting further though.

Also, I love how they explained the origins of Thabes and why it's in ruins. Previously, I assumed the people of Thabes somehow brought destruction upon themselves, which I'm sure is a common trope for advanced civilisations. In reality, that was partly true. It was Duma that destroyed it, because he believed it posed a threat to dragons (and maybe other humans).

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, VincentASM said:

Unrelated, I forgot to mention, but I always thought the Morphs in Blazing Blade had more in common with the Deadlords than the Risen. Of course, this doesn't really factor in the Awakening Deadlords being actual Risen. Hmm... Perhaps the new Deadlords are a combination of a Morph and a Risen (like a double corpse or something)?

Morphs are made with pure quintessence, Jugdrali deadlords are made with bodies, Risen are made with.... I don't know. Risen look kinda gooey IIRC, which would suggest no real body to them.

The Infinite Regalia Deadlords seem to be Jugdralian in that they use somebody's body/are somebody who just died tragically. The ingame Chapter 22 group never speak, so we don't know how they were made. But I think the IR ones might only be as they are due to cost-savings on appearances- no need to make them look different.

Morphs being more in common with Deadlords would apply to maybe a handful of Morphs- Kishuna being based on Renault's friend, the Final Chapter ones being based on all the dead characters they appear to be. We don't know if they have anything of their old personalities or memories though, since none speak, only quietly welcoming death. 

Ephidel, Limstella, Sonia, I'm not sure if they're based on anyone, and the legions of goons including Denning are certainly not. They're made with the essence of life, but are molded with whoever's and into whatever shape. Athos does say in Sands of Time that Nergal first started collecting quintessence from small non-human creatures, and I don't think he ever made a butterfly, dog or lizard Morph unless all Laguz are Morphs, to take an extreme instance of deviating from the source.

 

[omegaxis1]

7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Morphs are made with pure quintessence, Jugdrali deadlords are made with bodies, Risen are made with.... I don't know. Risen look kinda gooey IIRC, which would suggest no real body to them.

The Infinite Regalia Deadlords seem to be Jugdralian in that they use somebody's body/are somebody who just died tragically. The ingame Chapter 22 group never speak, so we don't know how they were made. But I think the IR ones might only be as they are due to cost-savings on appearances- no need to make them look different.

Dude, we just got over how Risen are in fact corpses, same as Deadlords. 

I'm guessing the Risen Deadlords are still Risen, but they might have been made to be more powerful than the average Risen simply. Also, I am pretty sure the Deadlords in the Jugdral series also do not actually speak. If anything, the Infinite Regalia are the only ones that talk. And it's heavily implied that they are the corpses of the Shepherds in the future that died from Grima and his forces.

8 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

Fair enough, we've never canonically seen Naga before she died, so we don't know what she looked like before.

Still, for some reason, I can just imagine Naga having the same body before and after. Plus, if it is a new body, that poses the question of how it was made or where it came from. That said, if the dragonkin have knowledge of--and ways to travel to--parallel worlds, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some pretty crazy technology.

Anyway, moving back to Valentia for a bit... Reading Japanese message boards, there seems to a pretty interesting minor revelation about the Falchion, which some people probably guessed. I'm gonna wait for the page to appear before commenting further though.

Also, I love how they explained the origins of Thabes and why it's in ruins. Previously, I assumed the people of Thabes somehow brought destruction upon themselves, which I'm sure is a common trope for advanced civilisations. In reality, that was partly true. It was Duma that destroyed it, because he believed it posed a threat to dragons (and maybe other humans).

We sort of did. There's artwork of her appearance as a maiden in Genealogy that you can look up.

But I think Naga creating a body for herself is not impossible. If her spirit remains tied to the world, than similar to Grima, she can draw on powerful magic and create a construct for herself to place her vessel in. Unlike Grima, she isn't sealed away. Dragons have advanced knowledge after all.

I'm curious what this info about Falchion is about now. 

Yeah, I'm glad they finally explained it. When I talked about Forneus and Grima, some people were insistent that Thabes was a dragon capitol and Forneus was a dragon.

Edited April 9, 2018 by omegaxis1

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Dude, we just got over how Risen are in fact corpses, same as Deadlords. 

I'm guessing the Risen Deadlords are still Risen, but they might have been made to be more powerful than the average Risen simply. Also, I am pretty sure the Deadlords in the Jugdral series also do not actually speak. If anything, the Infinite Regalia are the only ones that talk. And it's heavily implied that they are the corpses of the Shepherds in the future that died from Grima and his forces.

Oh, I guess the Entombed are made with poor-quality/degrading corpses. They were the ones I was thinking that had a semi-amorphous form.

The DLC Deadlords are indeed the only ones that speak in the series, and actively retain their memories and will. I guess they felt that was cooler for explaining the DLC than an Anna saying "These ruins are filled with ancient treasures but are guarded by powerful guardians".

[VincentASM]

8 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

We sort of did. There's artwork of her appearance as a maiden in Genealogy that you can look up.

But I think Naga creating a body for herself is not impossible. If her spirit remains tied to the world, than similar to Grima, she can draw on powerful magic and create a construct for herself to place her vessel in. Unlike Grima, she isn't sealed away. Dragons have advanced knowledge after all.

I know which artwork you're talking about. I was actually looking for it last night, but I couldn't find it in my dozens of DVD backups.

Now that you mentioned it, I did find a picture online, but it was a pretty blurry one.

Anyway, the artwork is from a novel that might not necessarily be canon. Still, I would not be surprised if it was based on some developer notes. Since we now know Naga was definitely female. (Ignoring the localisation that suggests she can gender-flip.)

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Oh, I guess the Entombed are made with poor-quality/degrading corpses. They were the ones I was thinking that had a semi-amorphous form.

The DLC Deadlords are indeed the only ones that speak in the series, and actively retain their memories and will. I guess they felt that was cooler for explaining the DLC than an Anna saying "These ruins are filled with ancient treasures but are guarded by powerful guardians".

Oh, you're referring to the Entombed, not the actual Risen. To be honest, I never felt like those Risen are actual Risen. They aren't even wearing Death Masks after all.

I honestly appreciate what they did in that DLC, and how vague they were being for it as well. Why do these Deadlords want Chrom and the others to come back? Maybe its because Chrom and the others are the only form of human connection they have left.

10 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

I know which artwork you're talking about. I was actually looking for it last night, but I couldn't find it in my dozens of DVD backups.

Now that you mentioned it, I did find a picture online, but it was a pretty blurry one.

Anyway, the artwork is from a novel that might not necessarily be canon. Still, I would not be surprised if it was based on some developer notes. Since we now know Naga was definitely female. (Ignoring the localisation that suggests she can gender-flip.)

I think it's come to a point where Naga is canonically female now. I think even Kaga in some way confirmed that Naga was female in how Naga is said to have taken the form of a maiden when in Jugdral in Genealogy. The "form of a maiden" would have to be their Manakete form.

[Armagon]

34 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Oh, you're referring to the Entombed, not the actual Risen. To be honest, I never felt like those Risen are actual Risen. They aren't even wearing Death Masks after all.

If we go by their appearance in SoV, Entombed are just mummies. And in Gaiden, they have a semi-amorphous form, as their attack animation consists of sinking into the ground and popping up where their target is. Their Awakening attack animation is a direct callback to this. So yeah, i agree that Entombed aren't Risen and the only reason they are called Risen in Awakening was because of convenience. 

Concept art also shows the Awakening Entombed as mummies

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

If we go by their appearance in SoV, Entombed are just mummies. And in Gaiden, they have a semi-amorphous form, as their attack animation consists of sinking into the ground and popping up where their target is. Their Awakening attack animation is a direct callback to this. So yeah, i agree that Entombed aren't Risen and the only reason they are called Risen in Awakening was because of convenience. 

Concept art also shows the Awakening Entombed as mummies

Well, the Japanese text for the Entombed IS mummies.

[Armagon]

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Well, the Japanese text for the Entombed IS mummies.

Now i just want a full-on Egyptian-themed Fire Emblem game. Can that be FE16, please? It'll also give Intelligent Systems the excuse to give the female characters revealing outfits.

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Now i just want a full-on Egyptian-themed Fire Emblem game. Can that be FE16, please? It'll also give Intelligent Systems the excuse to give the female characters revealing outfits.

I would actually be interested in one actually, especially if this one actually has things like the Egyptian gods being something that isn't dragon related possibly. 

Then again, Yugioh made Osiris and Ra into dragons, though Ra looks more like a bird and has the God Phoenix. 

Oh, can we have a phoenix be the god for once?

[Sentinel07]

So, on a small note, I guess they retconned another thing from Awakening.

That Duma was buried together with Mila with a tree forming from him as well with the two trees eventually merging into the Milla Tree we know. It all pretty much differs from Awakening trying to establish that Duma was buried beneath the Demon's Ingle (called Duma's Remains in the Japanese version).

Though frankly, the retcon makes more sense. 

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Sentinel07 said:

So, on a small note, I guess they retconned another thing from Awakening.

That Duma was buried together with Mila with a tree forming from him as well with the two trees eventually merging into the Milla Tree we know. It all pretty much differs from Awakening trying to establish that Duma was buried beneath the Demon's Ingle (called Duma's Remains in the Japanese version).

Though frankly, the retcon makes more sense. 

Yes, and this is one retcon that anyone can agree with. And props to the localization team for changing it to Demon's Ingle.

[Interdimensional Observer]

47 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I would actually be interested in one actually, especially if this one actually has things like the Egyptian gods being something that isn't dragon related possibly. 

Then again, Yugioh made Osiris and Ra into dragons, though Ra looks more like a bird and has the God Phoenix. 

Oh, can we have a phoenix be the god for once?

A phoenix would be cool, but sadly FE would probably dragonize it, IS has to resist that urge. And to not include any deaths that expectably get undone by the phoenix.

I call Thoth! Not that that means anything. But I like wisdom gods. The MC would probably be associated with Horus- being in myth the son of the God of the Dead who got vengeance on the murderous Seth. That sounds like a perfect little thing to build the core plot of a game around- a father murder and the quest for revenge.

 

I'm liking all these side chats while we wait for fresh translations. What I in particular am waiting to know is if the Forest Village has royal Zofian ancestry b/c Delthea's Ragnarok.

And I just want to get this out of the way, but did IS have to give both Mila and Duma light green hair? Xane is so far the only Archanean dragon who isn't old without green hair. I'd like a little more variety.

[VincentASM]

By the way, I don't think the Demon's Ingle was explicitly mentioned as a resting spot (and the Mila Tree to some degree), so it *might* not be a retcon.

In the Japanese version, it is literally called "Duma's Entrails", which is a bit more vague. At the time, it made more sense to simplify it as "Duma's Remains".

I'm also not convinced that the localisation team chose to rename the location because of any secret knowledge. Historically (and after Awakening), the localisation team has clashed with the Japanese versions at times (the most famous being Naga's gender). Most likely they would've changed the Mila Tree too, but Mila is actually referenced in game, so they kept it.

EDIT

The new info about the Falchion (that I've yet to verify) implies Ragnarok isn't blood-locked.

Edited April 9, 2018 by VincentASM

[omegaxis1]

14 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

A phoenix would be cool, but sadly FE would probably dragonize it, IS has to resist that urge. And to not include any deaths that expectably get undone by the phoenix.

I call Thoth! Not that that means anything. But I like wisdom gods. The MC would probably be associated with Horus- being in myth the son of the God of the Dead who got vengeance on the murderous Seth. That sounds like a perfect little thing to build the core plot of a game around- a father murder and the quest for revenge.

Thoth might be more of the Gotoh archetype, who serves not just as the strong final character you recruit, but also generally be that guy that always fills in the wisdom spot. I can definitely imagine Seth being the final antagonist type, because of how he has the evil character in him in the legends. 

14 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'm liking all these side chats while we wait for fresh translations. What I in particular am waiting to know is if the Forest Village has royal Zofian ancestry b/c Delthea's Ragnarok.

You know, speaking of these translations, the mention about how there have been kingdoms that came up every now and then, but soon vanished quickly is a good thing to mention because this would perfectly explain the existence of that underground kingdom that Clair and Mathilda went to.

14 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And I just want to get this out of the way, but did IS have to give both Mila and Duma light green hair? Xane is so far the only Archanean dragon who isn't old without green hair. I'd like a little more variety.

That is true. Xane has seriously crazy hair. I think that perhaps they want to associate the Divine Dragon royalty possibly with the green hair. There is an hierarchy in the dragon tribes, as Medeus is the Earth Dragon Prince, and Naga the Divine Dragon King. 

Perhaps Duma and Mila having green hair is a sign of showing that they are the royalty that has exceptionally strong powers.

Would that mean that Gotoh is actually not a royal member and thus weaker than the royal Divine Dragons? Would be interesting. Because I believe the timeline or information has now made it that it was the ROYAL members of the Divine Dragons that died.

13 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

By the way, I don't think the Demon's Ingle was explicitly mentioned as a resting spot (and the Mila Tree to some degree), so it *might* not be a retcon.

In the Japanese version, it is literally called "Duma's Entrails", which is a bit more vague. At the time, it made more sense to simplify it as "Duma's Remains".

I'm also not convinced that the localisation team chose to rename the location because of any secret knowledge. Historically (and after Awakening), the localisation team has clashed with the Japanese versions at times (the most famous being Naga's gender). Most likely they would've changed the Mila Tree too, but Mila is actually referenced in game, so they kept it.

But why is it in Zofian territory? That's the bigger issue. 

And that's true. They could have. Least they didn't. And I'm glad that they did change the Japanese name to be Demon's Ingle. That is one thing that I feel is acceptable. 

15 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

The new info about the Falchion (that I've yet to verify) implies Ragnarok isn't blood-locked.

I figured that could have been the case. Ragnarok is a spell and it seems that Delthea is simply the gifted one that is stronger, and thus she can use stronger spells. However, the Ragnarok that was entrusted to Zofia I might have been Ragnarok Ω, which ONLY Celica can use.

Edited April 9, 2018 by omegaxis1

[VincentASM]

6 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I figured that could have been the case. Ragnarok is a spell and it seems that Delthea is simply the gifted one that is stronger, and thus she can use stronger spells. However, the Ragnarok that was entrusted to Zofia I might have been Ragnarok Ω, which ONLY Celica can use.

Possibly, but the note in the timeline explicitly mentions the standard spell and that Celica and Delthea can use it. I figured Ragnarok Omega was just Celica drawing from her true strength, much like when Alm uses Scendscale.

[omegaxis1]

6 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

Possibly, but the note in the timeline explicitly mentions the standard spell and that Celica and Delthea can use it. I figured Ragnarok Omega was just Celica drawing from her true strength, much like when Alm uses Scendscale.

True, though given that it is using the Brand, it's possibly the indication that it is the true form of the power that Mila bestowed upon Zofia. But who knows. 

[SoulWeaver]

4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Made a thread as to why Naga, despite dying, stuck around. It's because Naga is so strong in terms of both power and will, her quintessence allows her to remain on the world. Because it is said her power runs through the land in Mount Prism, Naga can exist always. In the past, Naga created avatars for herself to reincarnate into, such as Nagi in the Archanea series. However, now Naga took on a spiritual form, having full access to her powers, but only able to use them when someone performs the Awakening. 

Grima cannot kill Naga because after enough time passes, Naga would revive herself in a new incarnation. However, when Tiki took over the role of Naga, it was a case of Tiki inheriting and using that power, meaning that Naga now did fully die herself and cannot return ever again. 

Jumping in late, but I think Naga bit it before Tiki became New Naga, when Grima's forces destroyed Mount Prism. You mind checking the script for us so we know when exactly the last moment we see Naga is? I'd check myself but I've gotta go now.

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

But why is it in Zofian territory? That's the bigger issue. 

Forgive the possible lack of intelligence i have in this field but is it possible for volcanoes to "travel" via geologic forces? I mean, SoV and Awakening are 2000 years apart and geologic changes did happen (for example, Talys seems to be connected to the Archanean mainland in Awakening) so it's possible a similar deal happened with Valentia/Valm.

But i do agree that the Demon's Ingle being actually related to Duma has been retconned.

[omegaxis1]

57 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

Jumping in late, but I think Naga bit it before Tiki became New Naga, when Grima's forces destroyed Mount Prism. You mind checking the script for us so we know when exactly the last moment we see Naga is? I'd check myself but I've gotta go now.

That's more because Grima says he killed her, but Naga is the one from the OUtrealms that sent Chrom and the others. She still clearly exists and is using her power, but she has little influence now and can only send for help. 

3 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Forgive the possible lack of intelligence i have in this field but is it possible for volcanoes to "travel" via geologic forces? I mean, SoV and Awakening are 2000 years apart and geologic changes did happen (for example, Talys seems to be connected to the Archanean mainland in Awakening) so it's possible a similar deal happened with Valentia/Valm.

But i do agree that the Demon's Ingle being actually related to Duma has been retconned.

I don't think even the 2000 year timeskip would cause Duma's body to shift all the way across half the continent.

[Acacia Sgt]

Volcanoes can only "travel" in the sense of tecntonic plates. But then that means everything else moves with them.

Anyway... man, couldn't have been a nice thing when it first showed up. I mean, the volcano is practically where Zofia Castle used to be...

[Sock]

"Duma's Entrails" being a volcano just makes me think it was named to represent War Father Duma's inner fire. Blazing fury. The people of the continent needed to name the place SOMETHING. It's a wretched place, it needs a suitable name.

Off on a tangent: The Demon's Ingle/Duma's Entrails is dangerously close to where the Zofian capital used to be. There were landslides near there; the earth eventually opened up into to expose the inner fire?

Tangent of the tangent: Zofia Harbor became Divine Dragon Grounds. Say'ri says this: "This is Naga's Cradle. It is said the divine dragon once called this place home." Zofia Harbor wasn't anything special. Naga must have visited in the 2000 years between Almica and Walhart, but...why? Why go to Valentia? And stay long enough that humans--uh, that humans called it her "home"... Nevermind, dragons' sense of time is different. Still, why go to Valentia? Why did Tiki go to Valentia?

Crack theory: Duma and Mila are Naga's children. Legit dragon-babies. Like Tiki. Whoa, now it makes sense why Tiki went to Valentia...

 

edit: Stolen, has been my thunder. D: About Zofia Castle.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Sock

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Volcanoes can only "travel" in the sense of tecntonic plates. But then that means everything else moves with them.

Anyway... man, couldn't have been a nice thing when it first showed up. I mean, the volcano is practically where Zofia Castle used to be...

Well it could be over a geothermal hotspot. And, the last time it erupted was several hundred thousand years ago- therefore Mila never noticed. Of course, that would mean there should be hot springs, geysers, or natural gas leaks in the area around Zofia Castle- something to suggest some measure of geothermal activity, the hotspots just don't die.

Assuming the One Kingdom still used Zofia Castle as a capital in some capacity, although I'd reckon they moved more to the center of the continent to balance the interests of the two halves, the loss of life and economic and political damages would be terrible. How much ash could be emitted in the explosion? Nuclear winter for a year?

Or, just blame Grima when they became a calamity, but then why isn't it called Grima's remains?

 

1 minute ago, Sock said:

Tangent of the tangent: Zofia Harbor became Divine Dragon Grounds. Say'ri says this: "This is Naga's Cradle. It is said the divine dragon once called this place home." Zofia Harbor wasn't anything special. Naga must have visited in the 2000 years between Almica and Walhart, but...why? Why go to Valentia? And stay long enough that humans--uh, that humans called it her "home"... Nevermind, dragons' sense of time is different. Still, why go to Valentia? Why did Tiki go to Valentia?

Crack theory: Duma and Mila are Naga's children. Legit dragon-babies. Like Tiki. Whoa, now it makes sense why Tiki went to Valentia...

My preferred strain of crack is Nowi the child of Mila-Duma incest.

Tiki's migration? Era of the First Exalt caused it, that is the default excuse.