If one of the Nohrian royal siblings was the final boss in Birthright...

[CyberController]

Which would you pick? I wanted a parallel between the two games.

 

[dmurr]

Azura would be interesting. She's not a parallel at all, though.

Edited April 3, 2018 by dmurr

[Kurrin]

Elise, just ... no. Unless she had the same possession issue as Takumi, I couldn't see this in the slightest. It'd make for an interesting twist, though.

Camilla doesn't really fight if she feels she doesn't have to. The only reason she fought in Birthright was because she was going kinda, sorta really mental and she thought that was the only way to bring Corrin back. After getting a talking to, though, she kind of resigned herself to the fact that Corrin wasn't coming back. Having her as a final boss would feel redundant, given that she doesn't have any other motivations.

Which leaves Xander and Leo.
Leo is the best parallel as he is Takumi's rough Nohrian equivalent. Leo is an active threat. He's proven multiple times that he would make the first move without hesitation, but as evidenced in his BR chapter, he didn't really want to fight. He really cares for Corrin and as such it doesn't feel like he'd go any further then he already did. The main issue is with his, well, issues. He doesn't seem to harbor the same level of deep-seated hatred that Takumi has so possession feels out of the question. Plus, it'd be a cheap cop out if yet another major antagonist was explained away as being possessed.

Xander makes the most sense, with the whole "for Mother Nohr," thing he's got going on, but it would feel kind of odd coming off of the preceding chapters since he dies. What would they do? Have Xander be possessed too? The parallel isn't quite there, though, if that's what you're going for.

[redlight]

1 hour ago, Kurrin said:

Xander makes the most sense, with the whole "for Mother Nohr," thing he's got going on, but it would feel kind of odd coming off of the preceding chapters since he dies. What would they do? Have Xander be possessed too? The parallel isn't quite there, though, if that's what you're going for.

Same case as Mikoto as well as the other royals parents. Just have Anankos revive him to be his puppet

[Bhoop]

 

2 hours ago, Kurrin said:

Which leaves Xander and Leo.

Leo is the best parallel as he is Takumi's rough Nohrian equivalent. Leo is an active threat. He's proven multiple times that he would make the first move without hesitation, but as evidenced in his BR chapter, he didn't really want to fight. He really cares for Corrin and as such it doesn't feel like he'd go any further then he already did. The main issue is with his, well, issues. He doesn't seem to harbor the same level of deep-seated hatred that Takumi has so possession feels out of the question. Plus, it'd be a cheap cop out if yet another major antagonist was explained away as being possessed.

Xander makes the most sense, with the whole "for Mother Nohr," thing he's got going on, but it would feel kind of odd coming off of the preceding chapters since he dies. What would they do? Have Xander be possessed too? The parallel isn't quite there, though, if that's what you're going for.

Honestly, I'd rather have Leo rather than Xander be the final boss. They easily could have made it so that Leo doesn't care about Corrin, and honestly, I'd like that BR Leo a lot better. He wouldn't be possessed or anything, he'd be doing it of his own free will, because the writers had the chance to have Leo as an actual villain, but they didn't take it. It's been a while since I've played Fates (played all routes once), but from what I understand, He stands in both Xander's and Corrin's shadow. In one of Leo's supports, I forget which one, but he says to the other character that the reason he picked up magic was to be good at the one thing Xander wasn't good at (A.K.A magic). And then he also has a younger sibling who has some of the same traits as Xander (good leader(debatable), cares for people, etc), the same traits he himself wants? I could easily see Leo being very hateful towards Corrin. The fact that Corrin is on Hoshido's side gives him an excuse to finally do something about it. 

And Xander...well...he's Xander. He's Camus. He's an older brother. And if you have a younger sibling (or more) you would understand the deep love he would have for all of his siblings, including Corrin, the one who betrayed him. That's who he is, and I can't see him as a final boss. 

[eclipse]

"Thank you Elise, for leading us into the castle."
"Yes, Elise, you've done a splendid job.  You're the best daughter I could've asked for."
"Thanks, daddy!"

Underneath that bubbly exterior is a stubborn loyalty to Garon, and the intelligence to pull off the innocent little girl routine.  Elise would've been absolutely amazing, if the writing was good enough.

[Moblin Major General]

5 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Underneath that bubbly exterior is a stubborn loyalty to Garon, and the intelligence to pull off the innocent little girl routine.  Elise would've been absolutely amazing, if the writing was good enough.

That's a BIG if with this game.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I can't see it being Leo. He's too much of a softy at heart. The scene in which he admits that everything he said prior to the start of his battle in chapter 18 was crap is great and I wouldn't want to remove it or twist it by having it be a lie.

Xander is the primary thematic antagonist of Birthright so thematically I'd like him as the final boss the most, for all that I can't see a way to write it which wouldn't make me at least kinda frustrated with the character. Maybe you could do an Anankos possession in a good way, I dunno.

I could also see an axe-crazy Camilla who blames Corrin for the deaths of Elise and Xander as the final boss.

[eclipse]

Just now, Hylian Air Force said:

That's a BIG if with this game.

I think it's fanfic territory.  Because one way of doing it would be:

Spoiler

"This way!"  Corrin's group followed the girl with the bouncing pigtails.  Thanks to her guidance, they'd avoided the majority of Nohr's superior military might.  The one skirmish they'd had was in a place with narrow corridors, something that the Hoshidans could work around.

The group screeched to a halt as they saw the men in the courtyard, practice weapons at ready.  The blood drained from Elise's face, and she put her hand on her mouth.  "They shouldn't have been training today!" she whispered to Corrin.

"Perhaps it's lucky that we caught them while training," Ryoma mused.  "Their weapons are no match for ours, and they're probably tired out.  This is a prime opportunity for us to act.  Let's go!"

---

Elise's visage was grim as the victorious Hoshidans picked their way around the Nohrian corpses.  Corrin smiled wickedly before plunging Yato into Hans' chest.  "This. . .is for those Hoshidans who you cut down from behind."  The girl bit her lip.  What had happened to the gentle Corrin she remembered?

The grand hall was full of soldiers, this time with the appropriate weaponry.  Xander and Corrin exchanged words, none of them friendly.  In the end, steel was drawn.  The girl couldn't take it any longer.  She ran between the two, desperately trying to stop the fighting.  Xander's blade came down, and she stared at it, dumbly.  Then, a clash of steel caused her to flinch.  Her father's axe intercepted the blade.  Then, it lashed out, cleaving Xander's chest in two.

"Execution is punishment for he who would turn his blade on his sibling," Garon explained coldly.  "I'm glad that you're safe, my sweet Elise."  Elise nodded numbly, her eyes on the still-twitching corpse of her older brother.  Garon managed a smile, and gently patted her head.  She looked up and managed a faint smile of her own.

"GARON!  This war ends here and now!" Ryoma exclaimed.

"Ah, yes, it's time for negotiations.  Elise, find somewhere safe to hide.  This may become. . .heated."  Her smile became strained, and tears formed in her eyes.  "You're a sweet girl, and know that I love you very much."  He kissed her forehead.  "Now you need to be a big girl, and do what daddy says."  She spared one last look at Corrin, then her father, before running down the hall.  Takumi readied an arrow, only to dodge as a magical bolt flew towards him.

"How utterly despicable.  You'd shoot down a fleeing girl?"  Iago stepped out from the shadows.  "You Hoshidans are worse than scum!"

"This is the last battle.  If we win, the war will be over!" Ryoma roared.  A chorus of Hoshidans yelled their affirmation.

"Over our dead bodies!" Iago shouted.  "For Nohr!"

---

Once silence reigned, Elise stepped out of the closet she'd hid in.  Her father's twisted corpse was splayed on the throne, Iago next to him.  She'd done everything daddy had asked - bring the important Hoshidans into Nohr, and have them execute Hans by proxy.  Yet all of it was in vain.  Her family was dead, and Corrin stood amongst the Hoshidans who were responsible for it.  The archer from earlier met her eyes, and raised his bow.  A whisper, barely at the edge of her consciousness, told her to surrender, to reclaim her birthright.

As the arrow flew towards her, she accepted the proposal.  The bolt that should've taken her life turned towards the one that fired it.  She allowed herself a smile as it pierced his heart, then a chuckle as he screamed the last of his life out.  The others looked towards her, shock and rage in their expressions.

Her vengeance had just begun.

 

[CyberController]

Wait, why does Garon want Hans dead? I mean, guys a thug, but he's pretty loyal to Garon.

[eclipse]

3 hours ago, CyberController said:

Wait, why does Garon want Hans dead? I mean, guys a thug, but he's pretty loyal to Garon.

Over-ambition.  Paranoia.  The fact that Hans provoking Hoshido way back in Chapter 3 meant that Hoshido's on their doorstep.  General "villain worried about having power usurped" things.  Honestly, it wouldn't be too hard to give Hans a bit more ambition.

Then again, it's not that hard to rewrite Fates into something that isn't a trainwreck.

[joshcja]

Dunno Hans is a Duke. His job is lit to be Nhors war leader.

It's never gone into but... Dude seems like he got to this point on merit from a low standing and just really loves his job.

I really can't see him wanting the throne.

(Iago may just be the first grand vizier in fictional history to be full on loyal unto death to his monarch as well... and I really like that about fates)

I do totally want a Hans/Iago spinnoff game now though.

-----------------

On topic my votes on Leo. Xander is dead, Elise is way too powerful, and Cammilia is... Cammilia.

Edited April 4, 2018 by joshcja

[De Geso]

I think Elise could have been interesting. Not possessed, just a little different from how she's written in BR.

[Jotari]

The final boss of birthright should be Garon, and the final boss of Conquest should have been Mikoto. That's the parallel I'd prefer.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Jotari

[SniperGYS]

From the siblings: Xander

BGecause Elise too pure and I don't want to hurt Leo (and actually Leo didn't wanted to fight you so he has no sense to be a main boss). I can see Camilla falling into "Ananko's possession" but for some unknown reason I can't see her as a main boss, so I choose Xander... Also I don't mind hitting Xander with a sword in the head  for a bit until he goes back to being a good boy.

Actually, I never feel bad for "killing" him on Birthright since it has sense, so yeah, him being a final boss it would have been good on my opinion

[Ae†her]

Probably Xander, but I want him to move as well with that full 8 movement, but maybe slowed down here and there by the terrain. Xander has always been royal, and he's the most powerful of the siblings so I'd imagine him as a final boss would be amazing. His Siegfried would get corrupted by Anankos' dark magic too, it would glow crazy hot, and would be more powerful and harder to deal with. 

If I wanted to add to the silliness of Fates though I would probably make it Elise, but then it would be ruining the least terrible story out of all the routes.

[Soleater]

On 4/3/2018 at 7:49 PM, eclipse said:

I think it's fanfic territory.  Because one way of doing it would be:

  Reveal hidden contents

"This way!"  Corrin's group followed the girl with the bouncing pigtails.  Thanks to her guidance, they'd avoided the majority of Nohr's superior military might.  The one skirmish they'd had was in a place with narrow corridors, something that the Hoshidans could work around.

The group screeched to a halt as they saw the men in the courtyard, practice weapons at ready.  The blood drained from Elise's face, and she put her hand on her mouth.  "They shouldn't have been training today!" she whispered to Corrin.

"Perhaps it's lucky that we caught them while training," Ryoma mused.  "Their weapons are no match for ours, and they're probably tired out.  This is a prime opportunity for us to act.  Let's go!"

---

Elise's visage was grim as the victorious Hoshidans picked their way around the Nohrian corpses.  Corrin smiled wickedly before plunging Yato into Hans' chest.  "This. . .is for those Hoshidans who you cut down from behind."  The girl bit her lip.  What had happened to the gentle Corrin she remembered?

The grand hall was full of soldiers, this time with the appropriate weaponry.  Xander and Corrin exchanged words, none of them friendly.  In the end, steel was drawn.  The girl couldn't take it any longer.  She ran between the two, desperately trying to stop the fighting.  Xander's blade came down, and she stared at it, dumbly.  Then, a clash of steel caused her to flinch.  Her father's axe intercepted the blade.  Then, it lashed out, cleaving Xander's chest in two.

"Execution is punishment for he who would turn his blade on his sibling," Garon explained coldly.  "I'm glad that you're safe, my sweet Elise."  Elise nodded numbly, her eyes on the still-twitching corpse of her older brother.  Garon managed a smile, and gently patted her head.  She looked up and managed a faint smile of her own.

"GARON!  This war ends here and now!" Ryoma exclaimed.

"Ah, yes, it's time for negotiations.  Elise, find somewhere safe to hide.  This may become. . .heated."  Her smile became strained, and tears formed in her eyes.  "You're a sweet girl, and know that I love you very much."  He kissed her forehead.  "Now you need to be a big girl, and do what daddy says."  She spared one last look at Corrin, then her father, before running down the hall.  Takumi readied an arrow, only to dodge as a magical bolt flew towards him.

"How utterly despicable.  You'd shoot down a fleeing girl?"  Iago stepped out from the shadows.  "You Hoshidans are worse than scum!"

"This is the last battle.  If we win, the war will be over!" Ryoma roared.  A chorus of Hoshidans yelled their affirmation.

"Over our dead bodies!" Iago shouted.  "For Nohr!"

---

Once silence reigned, Elise stepped out of the closet she'd hid in.  Her father's twisted corpse was splayed on the throne, Iago next to him.  She'd done everything daddy had asked - bring the important Hoshidans into Nohr, and have them execute Hans by proxy.  Yet all of it was in vain.  Her family was dead, and Corrin stood amongst the Hoshidans who were responsible for it.  The archer from earlier met her eyes, and raised his bow.  A whisper, barely at the edge of her consciousness, told her to surrender, to reclaim her birthright.

As the arrow flew towards her, she accepted the proposal.  The bolt that should've taken her life turned towards the one that fired it.  She allowed herself a smile as it pierced his heart, then a chuckle as he screamed the last of his life out.  The others looked towards her, shock and rage in their expressions.

Her vengeance had just begun.

 

Okay this is actually pure gold - I wish that IS had the guts to do something like this

But yeah more on topic, Xander would make the most sense, along with Ryoma for BR for the sake of parallels, and while Xander would be LOADS more interesting to fight than Dragon!Garon, who comes COMPLETELY out of nowhere, Possessed!Takumi was a bit of a surprise in Conquest, so maybe try to reflect that in BR?  I always headcanoned Leo as taking up his father's thinking more devoutly than Xander, so I can see that - as a sort of "last stand" against the sister who betrayed him, when he may have been trying to "help" you before.  I can't see Camilla being a final boss imo since she was basically just shoved in there as walking fanservice, and while Elise would be unlikely, in regards to Eclipse's take on it, I won't lie, I would have LOVED to see something like that. 

Honestly though?  If we aren't needing to parallel anything in BR, I'd want to see Lillith as the final boss.

All she's good for in game is getting sacrificed - that's it.  And it's so frustrating; especially in the case of CQ, in chapter 7 I believe, it LOOKS like she's going to do something, actually appearing in a cutscene and all, and then when things start to get hairy, she bails!  She straight up LEAVES you for dead, while you and Jakob (or Felicia) are forced to clean up the mess by yourselves (for a while until reinforcements, at least).  I honestly wanted her dead when I realized that, and considering the DLC that has her as an antagonist, I wouldn't mind her still wanting to work for Anankos, or trying to get you to stop meddling in his affairs by killing Garon, so she steps in, trying her hardest to detain you, but since she won't let you pass, you're forced to kill her.

Obviously this means she'd have to be more in the story, and not sacrifice herself to Hans, but it would make her WAY more useful to the story as a whole imo instead of her just being...the mascot, of the game

Edited April 30, 2018 by Soleater

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Soleater said:

Okay this is actually pure gold - I wish that IS had the guts to do something like this

But yeah more on topic, Xander would make the most sense, along with Ryoma for BR for the sake of parallels, and while Xander would be LOADS more interesting to fight than Dragon!Garon, who comes COMPLETELY out of nowhere, Possessed!Takumi was a bit of a surprise in Conquest, so maybe try to reflect that in BR?  I always headcanoned Leo as taking up his father's thinking more devoutly than Xander, so I can see that - as a sort of "last stand" against the sister who betrayed him, when he may have been trying to "help" you before.  I can't see Camilla being a final boss imo since she was basically just shoved in there as walking fanservice, and while Elise would be unlikely, in regards to Eclipse's take on it, I won't lie, I would have LOVED to see something like that. 

Honestly though?  If we aren't needing to parallel anything in BR, I'd want to see Lillith as the final boss.

All she's good for in game is getting sacrificed - that's it.  And it's so frustrating; especially in the case of CQ, in chapter 7 I believe, it LOOKS like she's going to do something, actually appearing in a cutscene and all, and then when things start to get hairy, she bails!  She straight up LEAVES you for dead, while you and Jakob (or Felicia) are forced to clean up the mess by yourselves (for a while until reinforcements, at least).  I honestly wanted her dead when I realized that, and considering the DLC that has her as an antagonist, I wouldn't mind her still wanting to work for Anankos, or trying to get you to stop meddling in his affairs by killing Garon, so she steps in, trying her hardest to detain you, but since she won't let you pass, you're forced to kill her.

Obviously this means she'd have to be more in the story, and not sacrifice herself to Hans, but it would make her WAY more useful to the story as a whole imo instead of her just being...the mascot, of the game

Garon actually makes a really good point when the game basically calls foul on the fact that his Dragon form comes out of nowhere. Corrin can transform into a dragon, why not Garon? They're both descended from dragons after all.  Of course then you play Revelation and learn that Corrin's lineage is much closer to dragons than the watered down royal families, but taken in isolation, Garon turning into a dragon in Birthright makes sense...it's not choreographed or foreshadowed in any way.

[Soleater]

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

Garon actually makes a really good point when the game basically calls foul on the fact that his Dragon form comes out of nowhere. Corrin can transform into a dragon, why not Garon? They're both descended from dragons after all.  Of course then you play Revelation and learn that Corrin's lineage is much closer to dragons than the watered down royal families, but taken in isolation, Garon turning into a dragon in Birthright makes sense...it's not choreographed or foreshadowed in any way.

Wouldn't that mean Xander or Camilla or Leo or any of Garon's children would be able to transform too?  Not to mention, the boss you fight IS Gooron, not Garon, and we were never given any idea that Anankos' creations could turn into dragons.  If Gooron can't, why don't any of his Vallite soldiers, the Invaders?  Why don't they all just turn into dragons?  Wouldn't that make attacking the Baby Realms kids or raiding Hoshido all the easier?  Idk thinking too hard about the Birthright boss fight just punches even more holes into Fates' plot/lore than there already were :/

[Jotari]

19 minutes ago, Soleater said:

Wouldn't that mean Xander or Camilla or Leo or any of Garon's children would be able to transform too?  Not to mention, the boss you fight IS Gooron, not Garon, and we were never given any idea that Anankos' creations could turn into dragons.  If Gooron can't, why don't any of his Vallite soldiers, the Invaders?  Why don't they all just turn into dragons?  Wouldn't that make attacking the Baby Realms kids or raiding Hoshido all the easier?  Idk thinking too hard about the Birthright boss fight just punches even more holes into Fates' plot/lore than there already were :/

Presumably Xander and Ryoma etc could become dragons if given an extra little push from Anankos. His soldiers wouldn't be able to though since they're not actually descended from dragons (can't use Dragon veins, I believe). Still, doesn't explain why Anankos didn't have possessed Takumi or the likes of Sumaragi turn into dragons (course even Gooron himself didn't turn into a dragon in Conquest, so who knows how it works? Anankos is crazy, poorly justifies just about any plot hole in Fates).

[Soleater]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Presumably Xander and Ryoma etc could become dragons if given an extra little push from Anankos. His soldiers wouldn't be able to though since they're not actually descended from dragons (can't use Dragon veins, I believe). Still, doesn't explain why Anankos didn't have possessed Takumi or the likes of Sumaragi turn into dragons (course even Gooron himself didn't turn into a dragon in Conquest, so who knows how it works? Anankos is crazy, poorly justifies just about any plot hole in Fates).

That's...something that I would actualyl like to see?  Anankos manipulating and juicing up the already present dragon blood, and making some weird sort of Dusk/Silent or Dawn/Silent hybrid dragon?  Maybe have the transformation be painful and against the host's will, to make it more of a mercy kill (like the Takumi boss fight), and all the more horrifying for Corrin to have to strike down.

Yeah but couldn't Anankos turn people into Faceless?  If he's on the level of a god to the point where he can suck the souls out of people and change their appearance like that, why not give them his blood and make them more powerful? (P sure Gooron though didn't turn into a dragon because is form was already revealed or something - or that the throne's poorly explained power made him literally hollow?  Like not as powerful?  Idk man)