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Story/Worldbuilding help for a hack.


Tuvy2
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I have decided to post my story idea for a hack here because I think I need some worldbuilding tips. I don't often pay attention to world building in FE because i'm usually too busy focusing on the characters, so I think I need pointed in the right direction for how to correctly build a world for the games story. If I don't put this story in a hack I will probably write it as it's own story, so I don't know if I put this in the correct subforum.


The story focuses on four main characters who each have different goals/perspectives on life. The story opens with two youths revealed to be twins on a ship during a tremendous storm. One of the two, is a taller more built teen named Marius, who is seen drunkenly singing and celebrating their departure from their country known as Alavis. Then enters the second of the two youths, who is named Hal, who seems to be more pessimistic about the situation, noting that they should have left in better weather. Eventually the storm escalates, causing the mast to be broken in two by the lighting. As people are trying to escape the falling mast Marius sees a young soldier standing in the way of the mast paralyzed with fear, who he pushes out of the way, which ends with his arm being crushed. While this was happening Hal was making sure that people have been getting below deck safely. He then begins to head over to his his brother after hearing his scream when the boat starts to rock heavily causing him to trip and fall off the boat. The scene ends revealing that the entire scene was narrated by Hal in front of a campfire, which leads into the standard in between chapter fire emblem transitions with the map in the background, where standard location descriptions are set up. There it is detailed that there are three large countries that make up the continent of Beodrend. Alavis, a dry country run by King Reinheld with very little governmental presence,  where Hal and Marius were upper class. The second country is Soliris, a harsh continent in government and climate where the third protagonist Lennox, is from. It is ruled by King Lysander and his wife, Queen Sherris. The third and final country is where the fourth and final protagonist, Maximilian, is from. He is the prince of the country under his Mother, Queen Carlisa, and his father, King Randel. There are legend of five blessed beings who will save the continent from a devastating war, these people are only detectable by the fire emblem.The fire emblem in this hack is a large shield like object like in awakening, there are six stones in it, the likes of which cannot be removed. The stones glow only when one of the blessed beings touch it, which is the indicator that that being is blessed. (THis is just a brief summary of my overall intro and concept.

I also want feedback on one of the main villains of the hack i'm writing.

Spoiler

The villain is named Taron, and is the blind prince of Soliris. He's not some badass blind guy who kicks ass, he's just a blind kid who has trouble walking because no one except his mother and his uncle help him around, not even the king or the kings servants. Throughout the game he sends groups of mercenaries across the main characters paths in order to stop them from coming to fight the king because he believes his father is to powerful to be beaten. When the main character finally reaches the king he ends up mounting one of the kingdoms many wyverns who he befriended during his time at the castle and tries to deliver something to the main protagonist, but before he can do that his father doesn't even recognize him and forced him to fight with "the rest of the soldiers." His stats reflect his terrible combat prowess with abysmal luck, skill, weapon ranks, and constitution, making him very easy to kill. You can have one of the 4 protagonists talk to him each resulting in different thins. One results in you automatically engage in a fight with him, one results him becoming a green unit, one triggers an automatic cutscene where he fights his dad/the king, and the last one results in him killing himself, all of these result in him giving you the fire emblem. The character who has the conversation notes that when Taron has the fire emblem one of the stones are glowing, when the character receives the fire emblem he notes that one of the stones is glowing, but not the same one.He automatically tracks down one of the main character to talk to them, not the central main character, but the one resulting in the cutscene where he fights the king. Ultimately he is not a villain but throughout the game the way he is written the main characters think he is. After you defeat his father, it is revealed that nor he or his father have died, and Taron limps over to kill his father, which he does, only to find that his father has been housing part of the dark god Faelor (On purpose) in his own soul, causing him to become weak and vulnerable. This will be hinted at throughout the story. When he kills his father Faelor takes hold of Taron, destroying every piece of good in him, only leaving the hate he had for his father, and his desire to see. He immediately cures Taron's blindness and flees the castle. 

 

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I think you have a very interesting and intriguing concept here (I'm not a professional though I do creative writing as a hobby), I am however confused though. If Talon believes his father is too powerful to be beaten, why does he send mercenaries after the heroes? Why doesn't he just let them get obliterated by his father? It almost sounds like he's concerned for his father when he keeps sending mercenaries after the heroes, and thinks his father might not be victorious if he (his father) fought.

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GENERALLY, it seems like this lacks focus, but maybe thats because its just a synopsis.

Blind kid taron, is something i find difficulty believing will work, not just because he is blind but because him being blind doesn't ADD anything to the world. Why did he go blind? maybe put him in an bad relationship with the king/his dad to imply that he was hurt as a child to evoke sympathy, but don't dwell on it too much or it might seem forced. to make him work you would need to make the king INCREDIBLY hate-able, which might remove some moral gray but would deepen sympathy with taron. To be honest, it would take a lot of work to keep your concept of a blind villain in the game while still making it work. 

Your dual protagonist idea has worked in many fire emblem games and hacks, but the thing is, in order to make their characters and viewpoints believable, you are going to have to have them disagree A LOT, which might cause some players to view the two as petty and unlikable, which is a problem. Basically a trade off between believably and likeableness. This stems mainly from the fact that you want them to be OPPOSITES which is a nice storytelling device but in terms of dual protagonists, who likely had similar upbringings, it would make little sense at first glance, that they are so different.

OR you could could go the sacred stones route where the devil is in the details between the 2. instead of making them obviously contrast between each other you could have them remain together for a chunk of the game then separate them in terms of objective, not belief, as the latter causes unlikability.  This would make them both likeable AND believable while creating the possibilty for player choice. 

Another thing is that, I would like to ask if this is the first hack you have done, because, though i am not a hacker, this seems like a HUGE undertaking, and so maybe you should make a slightly smaller game to start off THEN make something like this.

Though, I have no idea what the hell im on about so just have FUN with this hack that your making.

 

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29 minutes ago, bad touch said:

Blind kid taron, is something i find difficulty believing will work, not just because he is blind but because him being blind doesn't ADD anything to the world.

...i'm inclined to agree with this, unless the circumstances of his blindness are particularly important. (i.e. he made a pact with some deity or demon that took away his physical sight, in exchange for prophetic powers and the ability to gaze into the souls of mortal men + detect their true intentions. Or some such McGuffin plot device)

I know dick about the actual mechanics of hacking, but I write. Shoot me a script if you're looking for some editing. 

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58 minutes ago, bad touch said:

oh hi @Shoblongoo This concept seems pretty interesting doncha say?

Its a skeleton of a concept. Need to get some meat on the bones before I can really say one way or another. 

The scope of what hes aiming for there is going to require a full team to come together--that's not a one-man project. 
____________

I'm intrigued by the idea of a 3-country continent, and the political history + balance-of-power between nations that would imply. A trilateral power-structure isn't something that's ever been done before in Fire Emblem, IIRC. (We've had unilateral power structure in Jugdal. Bilteral power structures in Valentia and Fateslandia. Politically complex free-for-alls in Tellius and on Elibe.)

I'm envisioning a scenario where at any given time, one of the three countries is the dominant power on the continent. And the two lesser countries are in alliance to bring down the dominant power. 

...then that alliance breaks and a new alliance forms when the previously dominant nation is beaten back by the combined might of the other two, and one of the previously lesser nations rises to dominance.

So the continent cycles endlessly through conflict after conflict. With each nation always trying to be the strongest of the 3. But no one nation wanting to become TOO strong, for fear that the other two nations will team up against them. 


 

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5 hours ago, SavageVolug said:

I think you have a very interesting and intriguing concept here (I'm not a professional though I do creative writing as a hobby), I am however confused though. If Talon believes his father is too powerful to be beaten, why does he send mercenaries after the heroes? Why doesn't he just let them get obliterated by his father? It almost sounds like he's concerned for his father when he keeps sending mercenaries after the heroes, and thinks his father might not be victorious if he (his father) fought.

I don't know if I clarified this or not, but Taron fears for the protagonists safety, as he doesn't believe they are strong enough to fight his father.

 

5 hours ago, bad touch said:

GENERALLY, it seems like this lacks focus, but maybe thats because its just a synopsis.

Blind kid taron, is something i find difficulty believing will work, not just because he is blind but because him being blind doesn't ADD anything to the world. Why did he go blind? maybe put him in an bad relationship with the king/his dad to imply that he was hurt as a child to evoke sympathy, but don't dwell on it too much or it might seem forced. to make him work you would need to make the king INCREDIBLY hate-able, which might remove some moral gray but would deepen sympathy with taron. To be honest, it would take a lot of work to keep your concept of a blind villain in the game while still making it work. 

Your dual protagonist idea has worked in many fire emblem games and hacks, but the thing is, in order to make their characters and viewpoints believable, you are going to have to have them disagree A LOT, which might cause some players to view the two as petty and unlikable, which is a problem. Basically a trade off between believably and likeableness. This stems mainly from the fact that you want them to be OPPOSITES which is a nice storytelling device but in terms of dual protagonists, who likely had similar upbringings, it would make little sense at first glance, that they are so different.

OR you could could go the sacred stones route where the devil is in the details between the 2. instead of making them obviously contrast between each other you could have them remain together for a chunk of the game then separate them in terms of objective, not belief, as the latter causes unlikability.  This would make them both likeable AND believable while creating the possibilty for player choice. 

Another thing is that, I would like to ask if this is the first hack you have done, because, though i am not a hacker, this seems like a HUGE undertaking, and so maybe you should make a slightly smaller game to start off THEN make something like this.

Though, I have no idea what the hell im on about so just have FUN with this hack that your making.

 

I should have said that the actual game take place 11 years after the initial boat cutscene.

2. I'm planning on making his dad very easily dislikable, but not entirely to a generic level of evil.

3. There are actually four main characters. Immediatly you should npotie that Marius and Hal kind of switch characters, while Hal loses becomes a drunk mercenary after losing everything, and Marius becoming cold and collected during his search for a way to replace his arm. Hal,  the protagonist who washes up on Kevery, Maximilians country, after being thrown off the boat,  is very revenge driven after his friend, whom he had met in Kevery, is killed. The sword used to kill her he still has in his posession, he is a cavalry sword lord. Marius discovers the only way to replace his arm is too use magic, so he begins his search to find powerful enough magic to do so, which he finds in the form of a monastary in the mountain, he is a light magic lord. The third lord is Maximilian, the prince of Kevery sent to track down his father, the king, after he abandoned their country and sold royal treasures to other countries. (Soliris) The fourth protagonist is Lennox, a famous mercenary who one worked with Hal, who was hired by Maximilian to help him kill his father. Maximilian is very spineless, Lennox is greedy, Hal is vengeful, and Marius is calculating. They're not supposed to be great people , they're people that just happen to be on the good side. Though there are some that lean more towards the good side. (Marius and Hal)

4. I havent made a hack before but I have some experience. I said that I will most likely release this as a written story before I make this a hack.

 

Edited by Tuvy2
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2 hours ago, Tuvy2 said:

Maximilian was the result of an affair between Queen Carlisa and King Lysander , he was born blind. His mother prayed to a specific god named Felthenos. The god agreed to give him eyesight in place of someone elses. Lysander had a baby with his wife who was the person who's eyesight was taken. That is Taron.

That is STILL kind of arbitrary. 

That sort of thing seems like it could potentially set the whole story awry with overpowered gods intervening and fixing/ruining everything that makes the characters actions seem pointless. oh no wait there is a term for that sort of thing that fits this situation almost PERFECTLY; a DEUS EX MACHINA. WHY THE FUCK.

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9 minutes ago, bad touch said:

That is STILL kind of arbitrary. 

That sort of thing seems like it could potentially set the whole story awry with overpowered gods intervening and fixing/ruining everything that makes the characters actions seem pointless. oh no wait there is a term for that sort of thing that fits this situation almost PERFECTLY; a DEUS EX MACHINA. WHY THE FUCK.

Ya I guess your right. Do you have any suggestions for what I could do alternatively?

(I forget his name but I think stain wasn’t as good as the guy your avatar is based off of.)

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3 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

 

Its a skeleton of a concept. Need to get some meat on the bones before I can really say one way or another. 

The scope of what hes aiming for there is going to require a full team to come together--that's not a one-man project. 

That is completely fair to say. I do have some other people working on this with me, but not really a team. I’m mostly trying to get the story down so I can at least write it as a stand alone thing. Do you have anything you could recommend story wise though? (Other than that really neat complex political thing you wrote)

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@Tuvy2 Not include the gods at such an important level? Which, unfortunately seems to be one of the bases for your concept. So my suggestion would be, just don't include the gods and have people be jerkasses instead. It would seem less arbitrary and would invoke a deeper sense of disgust in the player if they heard about people doing nasty things as opposed to unknowable weirdos living in the sky.

In the case of blind kid(Cant remember his name trying to get back 2u asap) have it be from a hunting accident when he was young. like a fox attacking him, or a bear. Just make it something BRUTAL and UNFORSEEABLE, to make sure it seems as unpleasant as possible. Or make it darker, and intentional. 

Have his blindness be the result of a failed assassination attempt by poison. I just came up with this idea and it seems like it would fit REALLY neatly into a story, as it would; develop a character, progress a conflict, create disgust with the player, thereby engrossing them in the story.

I'd add more but i need water and some sleep. maybe tomorrow ill add more ideas as this seems kinda fun.

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6 minutes ago, bad touch said:

@Tuvy2 Not include the gods at such an important level? Which, unfortunately seems to be one of the bases for your concept. So my suggestion would be, just don't include the gods and have people be jerkasses instead. It would seem less arbitrary and would invoke a deeper sense of disgust in the player if they heard about people doing nasty things as opposed to unknowable weirdos living in the sky.

In the case of blind kid(Cant remember his name trying to get back 2u asap) have it be from a hunting accident when he was young. like a fox attacking him, or a bear. Just make it something BRUTAL and UNFORSEEABLE, to make sure it seems as unpleasant as possible. Or make it darker, and intentional. 

Have his blindness be the result of a failed assassination attempt by poison. I just came up with this idea and it seems like it would fit REALLY neatly into a story, as it would; develop a character, progress a conflict, create disgust with the player, thereby engrossing them in the story.

I'd add more but i need water and some sleep. maybe tomorrow ill add more ideas as this seems kinda fun.

Thank you very much

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1 hour ago, bad touch said:

@Shoblongoo

c'mon man. thats a little harsh. I mean, yeah it needs fleshing out but still.

I'm not saying that in a bad way. 

Its just at a very early stage of development; I'll have more to say when I see some work-product.

 

3 hours ago, Tuvy2 said:

I don't know if I clarified this or not, but Taron fears for the protagonists safety, as he doesn't believe they are strong enough to fight his father.

 

I should have said that the actual game take place 11 years after the initial boat cutscene.

2. I'm planning on making his dad very easily dislikable, but not entirely to a generic level of evil.

3. There are actually four main characters. Immediatly you should npotie that Marius and Hal kind of switch characters, while Hal loses becomes a drunk mercenary after losing everything, and Marius becoming cold and collected during his search for a way to replace his arm. Hal,  the protagonist who washes up on Kevery, Maximilians country, after being thrown off the boat,  is very revenge driven after his friend, whom he had met in Kevery, is killed. The sword used to kill her he still has in his posession, he is a cavalry sword lord. Marius discovers the only way to replace his arm is too use magic, so he begins his search to find powerful enough magic to do so, which he finds in the form of a monastary in the mountain, he is a light magic lord. The third lord is Maximilian, the prince of Kevery sent to track down his father, the king, after he abandoned their country and sold royal treasures to other countries. (Soliris) The fourth protagonist is Lennox, a famous mercenary who one worked with Hal, who was hired by Maximilian to help him kill his father. Maximilian is very spineless, Lennox is greedy, Hal is vengeful, and Marius is calculating. They're not supposed to be great people , they're people that just happen to be on the good side. Though there are some that lean more towards the good side. (Marius and Hal)

4. I havent made a hack before but I have some experience. I said that I will most likely release this as a written story before I make this a hack.

 

...I'm liking it a lot more after hearing the level of detail in Paragraph #3...

And I actually like the idea of gods actually doing things and taking an active role in the story; it makes the whole idea of religion in the fictional setting more compelling when the religion is based on gods being responsive beings with observable affects on mortal affairs, rather than immaterial objects of faith and devotion.

There's ways to write gods into a fictional story where it elevates rather than detracts from the actions of your main cast:

1) Gods are fickle creatures. They are as likely to throw obstacles in your path or heap punishments and hardships upon you for some perceived transgression as to reward you for some perceived act of devotion.

2) You may be beneath the gods' notice and unworthy of any particular positive or negative attention if you don't ask the god's to do anything for you. But pray to a god for divine intervention and said god is now paying attention to you; you are now subject to punishment if the god deems your request arrogant or petty, and is annoyed that you would be so bold as to invoke his aid for your trivial mortal concerns.

Asking for divine aid is always a double-edged sword.

3) Before a god will even begin to entertain a mortal's request for divine aid, said god demands a certain level of piety. The mortal must adhere to the code of conduct set forth by the god and perform acts pleasing to the god, with intent that the god be pleased by said actions (i.e. a warrior god demands honorable combat + harvesting of blood and skulls. A god of knowledge and wisdom demands impeccable use of logical reasoning, adherence to scholarly truths, and control of irrational emotional impulses.   A god of decadence and excess demands...well...use your imagination...)

The struggle to achieve and maintain piety becomes a piece of the mortal experience. And the most arduously pious are punished the most severely when they transgress.

4) Even when you do everything right--the gods do whatever they want. And the gods are awful fond of answering prayers with "Thou hath become arrogant, mortal! Thou must relearn thy lessons!"


---------
 

50 minutes ago, Tuvy2 said:

 

Maximilian was the result of an affair between Queen Carlisa and King Lysander , he was born blind. His mother prayed to a specific god named Felthenos. The god agreed to give him eyesight in place of someone elses. Lysander had a baby with his wife who was the person who's eyesight was taken. That is Taron.

I love it. Thats a delightfully dickish thing for an annoyed god to do.

I think what would make that even better though is if its not Queen Carlisa praying to cure the blindness of King Lysander's bastard--its King Lysander himself.

And Felthenos--greatly bothered--blinds the king's trueborn son, as punishment for the King invoking his power for so impious and trivial a task.     

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6 hours ago, bad touch said:

not much left to say really. So good luck with your hacks progress @Tuvy2 And sorry about getting a little miffed earlier.

@bad touchIts completey understandable, I see where you were coming from. However...

 

16 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

I'm not saying that in a bad way. 

Its just at a very early stage of development; I'll have more to say when I see some work-product.

 

...I'm liking it a lot more after hearing the level of detail in Paragraph #3...

And I actually like the idea of gods actually doing things and taking an active role in the story; it makes the whole idea of religion in the fictional setting more compelling when the religion is based on gods being responsive beings with observable affects on mortal affairs, rather than immaterial objects of faith and devotion.

There's ways to write gods into a fictional story where it elevates rather than detracts from the actions of your main cast:

1) Gods are fickle creatures. They are as likely to throw obstacles in your path or heap punishments and hardships upon you for some perceived transgression as to reward you for some perceived act of devotion.

2) You may be beneath the gods' notice and unworthy of any particular positive or negative attention if you don't ask the god's to do anything for you. But pray to a god for divine intervention and said god is now paying attention to you; you are now subject to punishment if the god deems your request arrogant or petty, and is annoyed that you would be so bold as to invoke his aid for your trivial mortal concerns.

Asking for divine aid is always a double-edged sword.

3) Before a god will even begin to entertain a mortal's request for divine aid, said god demands a certain level of piety. The mortal must adhere to the code of conduct set forth by the god and perform acts pleasing to the god, with intent that the god be pleased by said actions (i.e. a warrior god demands honorable combat + harvesting of blood and skulls. A god of knowledge and wisdom demands impeccable use of logical reasoning, adherence to scholarly truths, and control of irrational emotional impulses.   A god of decadence and excess demands...well...use your imagination...)

The struggle to achieve and maintain piety becomes a piece of the mortal experience. And the most arduously pious are punished the most severely when they transgress.

4) Even when you do everything right--the gods do whatever they want. And the gods are awful fond of answering prayers with "Thou hath become arrogant, mortal! Thou must relearn thy lessons!"


---------
 

I love it. Thats a delightfully dickish thing for an annoyed god to do.

I think what would make that even better though is if its not Queen Carlisa praying to cure the blindness of King Lysander's bastard--its King Lysander himself.

And Felthenos--greatly bothered--blinds the king's trueborn son, as punishment for the King invoking his power for so impious and trivial a task.     

This guy kind of says the opposite of what you said, which I also want to take to heart because this was essentially my thinking. I will try and encorperate what you said though.

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18 hours ago, Tuvy2 said:

This guy kind of says the opposite of what you said, which I also want to take to heart because this was essentially my thinking. I will try and encorperate what you said though.

@Tuvy2 Eh fair enough, just not my cup o' tea is all. I focus on a more grounded approach if i want to tell a story, but did that stop the ones who told stories of the high gods of yore? No! So just do what you like and have fun with it! If my comments result in a story that seems less enjoyable to write, then ignore my comments! i again wish you good luck and goodbye!

 

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On 4/7/2018 at 2:08 AM, bad touch said:

@Tuvy2 Eh fair enough, just not my cup o' tea is all. I focus on a more grounded approach if i want to tell a story, but did that stop the ones who told stories of the high gods of yore? No! So just do what you like and have fun with it! If my comments result in a story that seems less enjoyable to write, then ignore my comments! i again wish you good luck and goodbye!

 

Thank you for respecting my ideas! If I wasn't so depending on gods being in the story I would listen to your advice, however, you did make me start to tone down the presence of gods in the story, for the better in my opinion.

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..so if gods are going to be a big part of your story, one of the best things you can do from a worldbuilding perspective is really nail your in-verse portrayal of faith and religion. 

The difference between a story that includes the actions of gods coming across as arbitrary and disconnected from the actions of main characters (i.e. Fates) and coming across as a true epic (i.e. Tellius) is how well you flesh out those little details. 

  • What do the gods expect of their mortals? What covenants and commandments must be honored to avoid incurring their wrath? (i.e. "there shall be no major war between beorc and laguz")
  • What do the mortals expect from their gods? What "miracles" have the Gods performed to inspire devotion to their godhood?  (i.e. Blessing of favored servants with divine power. Gifting of divine weapons and armor.)
  • What beliefs or practices are considered heretical amongst the faithful? (i.e. "beorc shall not lay with laguz; for the two to conceive a child together is a sin and an abomination")  
  • What is the structure and power of organized religion? (i.e. faith in the goddess is the state religion of The Empire. The royal family claims its right to rule by way of divine covenant between the goddess and the first Empress, and the seal of the covenant is that each firstborn female of the royal bloodline shall have the power to commune with the goddess) 
  • What are the moral directives of the gods, by which they decide what to command and when to act or refrain from acting. (i.e. "I shall save them from themselves.")  

Don't just make the gods these giant fuck-off power sinks that move the plot along with arbitrary godly powers (i.e. don't make an Anankos)

Stop and think for a moment--if these gods exist and are doing these things. What should the mortal nations and cultures built around their presence look like, and how should they be behaving?

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