We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[Snike]

@Refa athena claimed me as character wtf is that push

@Shinori I'm disagreeing w/ walrein scumread; A lot of the stuff over whether walrein is town/scum was based off of activity when I thought their stuff was tonally town + it looks like they're casing

going to go lay down

[Shinori]

Sully isn't a tracker. So no.

Gonna have to check up on the EoD1 stuff WRT Nightmare as I'm pretty sure someone else had commented on nightmare(but not actually scumread them or pushed them) which is what drew my attention to them in the first place.

[Refa]

Just now, Snike said:

@Refa athena claimed me as character wtf is that push

oh i thought you claimed networker i'm dumb

2 minutes ago, Omega. said:

Sully also claimed a track on kirsche in his first post, didn't he?

I was reading that as likelier villager as well. He gains almost nothing from doing that as a wolf. I also found his thought processes reasonable upon his entrance in the game.

I echo the sentiments being expressed earlier that Weapons' was overdoing his trolling shtick btw. That said, I really have enjoyed his trolling here. I also think there's a wolf or 2 between him/JB.

From my understanding, he didn't claim to have tracked Kirsche but checked if Kirsche had a night action.  I dunno, though, maybe I'm wrong.

Have Weapons/JB ever interacted?

[SullyMcGully]

Honestly, Athena's post where he caught the subs up on what was going on reads like town to me. He demonstrates a pretty good knowledge of the gamestate, and outlines his own cases really well. However, I'd like to see him update his 3 top scumreads as they all come from players who haven't really posted a lot. Hence, they don't change as frequently. Hence, they're easier to make.

Honestly, I wouldn't lynch here. Not yet. Not without something more conclusive. As it is, it almost feels like he's getting set up for a mislynch. Of course, I suppose if we did lynch there, then we'd get a better idea of who's scum and who isn't.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Ah, well not a track, but whatever Sully claimed Kirsche had. The meaning's the same and I probably just confused that with Weapons' troll claim.

I don't know if Weapons/JB have interacted. I just agree that Weapons has been a little overboard and JB has been surface-level-y. I remember the early vote on Fable and I was like "Ehhh" plus Via/Marth were voting him. Marth I know is villa and Via looks pretty good to me.

[Makaze]

@Omega. What do you make of eclipse?

[Athena_57]

23 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

Honestly, Athena's post where he caught the subs up on what was going on reads like town to me. He demonstrates a pretty good knowledge of the gamestate, and outlines his own cases really well. However, I'd like to see him update his 3 top scumreads as they all come from players who haven't really posted a lot. Hence, they don't change as frequently. Hence, they're easier to make.

Let me start by saying my top 2 scumreads doesn't change for now. JB's reply was basically saying "yeah, you're right, good case." and it didn't even contain anything productive either. Mack is still catching up, but I was bothered when I heard he didn't use the QT at all. The martyr having a scum clausule is something I hadn't thought of and a good reason to not clear him based off his role.

However, Zeus being subbed out means he no longer has any business being in my lynchlist.

I looked at Marth's D1 stuff again and he remains null, I don't see where the "Upon reread, it looks worse" from Eclipse comes from at all. His D2 stuff is kind of weird, but Eclipse's vote confuses me. His bit of Snike fakeclaiming is pretty dumb, fair, but that's no reason to vote him on its own and the part where he accuses Walrein based on them flaking is clearly not just because Walrein's flaking, but because of meta-reasons as well.

This is for me enough reason to move Eclipse into the null pile for now, especially when reinforced with a bunch of subs coming in doubting Eclipse, it makes me think we all just got stuck in this mindset of "Yeah, she's obvtown, move on."

In any case, you were asking for scumreads and tbh I like Omega's plan of lynching one of Kirsche/Junko (now RAD I think?). I haven't received the summary of the case on Kirsche from anyone, so I'll suppose I'll start skimming the pages in search of them... Depending on what I find there and what Rad's first real post looks like one of these two will be my number 3 (or perhaps 1/2 if I'm really impressed/bothered by either).

As a return question, you keep flip-flopping around (not that I blame you, I'd be confused as a sub as well), but it leaves me wondering, what as of now are your scumreads?

[SullyMcGully]

OK, so I'm starting to see some of the logic on JB. I would kind of understand if it was just his playstyle to be this... undevoted, but he seems fairly popular and well-known around here, which means people are right to expect better of him. Until I see more effort from this slot I'm considering it scummy. He's had less good content than a lot of the people who got subbed out already. 

Makaze jumps in and almost immediately casts shade on a widely held townread. Is this scummy? I'll have to reread Eclipse first. However, she has slacked off content-wise a bit. I would expect skilled scum to play their hardest during D1 when nothing is certain and no associative reads can be made and then quiet down, trying to use their D1 towniness for the rest of the game. However, I don't think scum would be as adamant as she is about nobody revealing their roles.

@Mackc2 you are testing my patience. I know it's a lot to read and you're a busy guy, but by now you should have something to go off of. At least use the QT.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Feel a bit better today, but still demotivated.

@Omega., what makes you so sure one of Junko/kirsche is scum? IIRC you were not so confident about your Marth/Boron read last game. I do kind of agree though, and I’m leaning kirsche more, but why do assured?

General note: subs usually read as town when they first sub in especially if they’ve been reading along, cause they do have legitimate natural reads. Gonna need the dust to settle a bit before judging them.

@Refa, I said a bit back that I thought JB’s defense was good, can’t remember if I’ve interacted with him before that.

I thought kirsche’s most recent defense was ok, but I’m still going to keep my vote on him cause I don’t know what to do otherwise atm.

where is my mind?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Oh yeah, I’m also announcer, which I think Athena missed.

[SullyMcGully]

I don't think the big point everyone is holding up on the original Nightmare case is that good though. That weird vote change is scummy, sure, but it's kind of obviously so. Isn't Nightmare supposed to be GOAT at this or something? If that's the case, I don't think he'd make such an obvious slip up. It could have just been coming from somebody who didn't think they'd be a lynch target very soon and didn't care about the reaction. 

I'm not feeling very conclusive about this slot, am I...

[SullyMcGully]

Wait, what's an announcer? @WeaponsofMassConstruction

 

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

23 minutes ago, Makaze said:

@Omega. What do you make of eclipse?

In a vacuum, not a fan.

If I was wolf, I'd be having an absolute field day in this game. I feel like eclipse has spent an inordinate amount of time attacking people over what could easily be bad play as opposed to scummy play. There was a part of the game where she went at your predecessor for quite some time. If you're villa (I don't know what you are, and didn't have much of an opinion on zeus), then that looks bad because zeus is the type of player who's going to make himself look wolfy AF the more you pressure him. I don't think I'd lynch her over 1 of Junk/kirsche + JB though.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

10 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

Wait, what's an announcer? @WeaponsofMassConstruction

 

See what SB posted at the very beginning of the day

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Another quick hit: The way Refa bounced and expressed doubt between Junko/kirsche yesterday aligned with my thought process pretty hard. He's a harder read but I'm slightly leaning villager on him ATM.

Weapons, I was pretty confident on Marth/Boron holding a wolf last game but perhaps my posts didn't express it as strongly as I thought. That game was difficult due to all the village infighting which got me distracted, but I'm feeling focused here and better about Junko/kirsche holding a scum. The odds that these two have fought to the death for two dayphases in a row with both of them being villagers is extremely low. It's my hardest ping thus far, just a matter of pinpointing.

[SullyMcGully]

Vote: JB

I suck at Mafia. I'm going to sheep Athena and BBM for now, I still feel weird about Kirsche but even after rereading I still can't put my finger on it so I'll leave him be. The subs are throwing me off a lot. I'm kinda starting to see the old Junko case logic make a bit more sense now, but I'm going to let RAD post a bit first. Of all the subs, IMO Mack is the scummiest. But there's still so little to go off of.

@Fable if you need a conversation starter with Mack, try Waluigi. That's his favorite.

Agreeing with the sentiment that one of the scum is in deep, but with my scumhunting abilities, don't expect me to be the one who catches it. I can't reconcile Eclipse wanting us to be hush-hush about our roles with her being scum. And Shinori seems pretty good too, I read Kirsche's case on him but it doesn't seem as much like a scummy player as it seems like... Shinori, just being Shinori. In fact that's actually what bothers me most about Kirsche. That Shinori case was weak IMO. Too weak to be worth a voteswitch. 

@Omega. seeing your logic, but I'd prefer to lynch for scum, not just an associative read. So I'll hold my vote off of those two for now and see what they do. 

I'm really thinking Athena is town. If you're currently voting Athena, I want to see more of you actively pushing him for info and less of you sitting there on a case. I have a feeling that he could get cleared as town with enough action, but scum wouldn't want to lose their precious wagon. 

Sorry guys. I was hoping I could be more useful, but that's all I've got. Also, I'm going to be pretty darn busy over the next few days, so don't expect that much from me. I'm going to try and hold out though. The last thing we need this game is another sub.

[Makaze]

FWIW I read Refa town. I forgot to mention it but I read his ISO. There was only one thing that bothered me: He made this cringe worthy post about "I am so lost I wish I was mafia then I'd have information"

Then he asked me about TMI

And didn't follow up

Refa what do you make of me, what do you make my thoughts on athena with your question answered? @Refa

[Refa]

Just now, Makaze said:

Then he asked me about TMI

And didn't follow up

Refa what do you make of me, what do you make my thoughts on athena with your question answered? @Refa

You're okay, I guess.  I don't agree with all of your reads (primarily, your Junk read), so I'm not sure about you.  Athena is most likely town.

[Makaze]

Just now, Refa said:

You're okay, I guess.  I don't agree with all of your reads (primarily, your Junk read), so I'm not sure about you.  Athena is most likely town.

What do you feel differentiates what Junko has done from OMGUS-y town play?

[Refa]

Just now, Makaze said:

What do you feel differentiates what Junko has done from OMGUS-y town play?

The primary thing is the lack of updates on his ZKirsche read.  I've been rereading the whole thread, and he harps on ZKirsche for an ED1 issue but never really updates it despite ZKirsche making a decent amount of posts.  I don't think him scumreading ZKirsche in and of itself is bad, but how he's going about it.  I thought his Athena read was good at the time but I don't really feel that way anymore.  His Eclipse read seems like filler and his read on me seems very paranoia driven.

[Makaze]

Just now, Refa said:

The primary thing is the lack of updates on his ZKirsche read.  I've been rereading the whole thread, and he harps on ZKirsche for an ED1 issue but never really updates it despite ZKirsche making a decent amount of posts.  I don't think him scumreading ZKirsche in and of itself is bad, but how he's going about it.  I thought his Athena read was good at the time but I don't really feel that way anymore.  His Eclipse read seems like filler and his read on me seems very paranoia driven.

I can see that. I only saw Junko's posts in his ISO and didn't read the thread so I couldn't see what Kirsche was doing at the time.

Can you explain how scum can have paranoia about you?

[Refa]

Just now, Makaze said:

I can see that. I only saw Junko's posts in his ISO and didn't read the thread so I couldn't see what Kirsche was doing at the time.

Can you explain how scum can have paranoia about you?

I mean, it reads like something that induces paranoia.  He's pointing out flaws in my play but not why they're more likely for me to make as scum.  I really wanted a response from him on this front because I wasn't sure if it was just me being biased towards an incorrect read on myself (and it'd help my read on his slot), but then he subbed out.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

If Athena is villa, then we are in deep shit with him/myself being v/v wagons. I say this not to fearmonger, but to try and get the village to start reassessing their reads. A lot of flimsy V reads have been thrown out and I really do not understand why.

By the way, I am on board with a JB wagon, but still maintain a wolf between Zkirsche/Junko. Also, gimme a second because Nightmare made a post earlier in the game that I really disliked and I'm going to try and pull it up.

[Makaze]

So basically you think he was shading people and had no real reads.

I'd be willing to sheep that, on the grounds I think you are town and other people I think are town don't like his slot, but I have a very bad history of always scumreading him for being bad.

[Makaze]

1 minute ago, Omega. said:

If Athena is villa, then we are in deep shit with him/myself being v/v wagons. I say this not to fearmonger, but to try and get the village to start reassessing their reads. A lot of flimsy V reads have been thrown out and I really do not understand why.

By the way, I am on board with a JB wagon, but still maintain a wolf between Zkirsche/Junko. Also, gimme a second because Nightmare made a post earlier in the game that I really disliked and I'm going to try and pull it up.

You're going to learn quickly that I form snap judgments and I can be pretty confident in them.

Going to properly read kirsche now.