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We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER


Iris
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Just now, Makaze said:

That makes 0 sense. Mafia want to get to a world where they = the number of town as fast as possible. Every mislynch matters. If Arc is getting lynched either way, then Mafia would prefer the mislynches happen sooner, especially because it gives them time to NK the main leaders on the Arc wagon.

It also gives them time to use Arcanite's role for one more night.

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@Makaze Do you see the only claimed investigative role being scum?

@SullyMcGully You said your role doesn't work if people use an action.  What happens if they have an action and idle it?

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2 minutes ago, Refa said:

Also I just checked and only me/Snike/Mackc2/Makaze were on board with your case, which seems a bit less than everyone.

Cool.  I just read your claim though and I think that's town, so...

It is very unlikely to be the true claim, and if it is, then it's not all there is. It's too weak for a watcher. See Snike's spec on this.

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Just now, Refa said:

@Makaze Do you see the only claimed investigative role being scum?

@SullyMcGully You said your role doesn't work if people use an action.  What happens if they have an action and idle it?

Yes I do. I also see the role godfather and self-watching claims as coming from town players (Granted some tinfoils on Omega). I think that Sully is not telling his full claim, and his targets for his action have made 0 sense.

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1 minute ago, Makaze said:

Yes I do. I also see the role godfather and self-watching claims as coming from town players (Granted some tinfoils on Omega). I think that Sully is not telling his full claim, and his targets for his action have made 0 sense.

I'm assuming N1 was Elie's action, or randomized.  N2 seems fine to me?  He targeted someone he thought was obvious town and his action was unlikely to fail on.

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1 minute ago, Refa said:

I'm assuming N1 was Elie's action, or randomized.  N2 seems fine to me?  He targeted someone he thought was obvious town and his action was unlikely to fail on.

Okay.

Explain the logic behind the only town inspection role having this limitation?

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FWIW I have been 100% ignoring rolespec when casing someone

some might have noticed this

I think it is best to consider PoE outside of role claims. it is absurd to think you can win by mass claiming in this game

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Just now, Makaze said:

Okay.

Explain the logic behind the only town inspection role having this limitation?

I'm sure one of the unclaimed people has an investigation role as well.  But anyways, the limitation is to stop Watcher/Jailer/Martyr interactions I think.

Just now, Makaze said:

FWIW I have been 100% ignoring rolespec when casing someone

some might have noticed this

I think it is best to consider PoE outside of role claims. it is absurd to think you can win by mass claiming in this game

That's fair.  Sully's actions the last few pages are confusing the fuck out of me.  I want him to genuinely respond to your case on him.

Oh, I'm sure a mass claim would allow you to win...if you were scum.

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2 minutes ago, Refa said:

I'm sure one of the unclaimed people has an investigation role as well.  But anyways, the limitation is to stop Watcher/Jailer/Martyr interactions I think.

That's fair.  Sully's actions the last few pages are confusing the fuck out of me.  I want him to genuinely respond to your case on him.

Oh, I'm sure a mass claim would allow you to win...if you were scum.

That... Doesn't make sense, since he claimed to watch the person he is targetting, and he claimed that he gets full roleblocked if the person he targets used an action. It flies in the face of reason.

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I'd like to hear your thoughts on how a conditional watcher can interact with any of the roles you mentioned

I don't see how they interact at all

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@RefaYou forgot Athena. Everybody who went online between when the case was made and now (except for Arc) agreed with Makaze's case. 

Maybe I'm not thinking right, but if the ultimate plan is for the Arcanite lynch to set me up for a mislynch the next day, then my fate seems sealed as is. Mafia does have an advantage to gain if they can look good from lynching Arc and then they can safely mislynch me, coasting on their newly acquired towncred. 

Also, I assume my action would work on an individual as long as they didn't use their night action the night I watch them. If they idle, it should be fine.

I'll go find Makaze's ink post and respond to that.

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1 minute ago, Makaze said:

That... Doesn't make sense, since he claimed to watch the person he is targetting, and he claimed that he gets full roleblocked if the person he targets used an action. It flies in the face of reason.

I thought watch was general terminology for see all players targeting his target.

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1 minute ago, Refa said:

I thought watch was general terminology for see all players targeting his target.

It is. He gets all the people targeting his target. Oh. I get it now. You're saying they didn't want it to be easy to have a Jailer claim day 1 and have the inevitable NK get watched. They wanted to weaken the Watcher which is already pretty OP.

But then, why would Sully have thought that the Mafia would NK eclipse in this scenario? I don't think it follows, especially since I was hard pushing the lynch well into EoD.

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2 minutes ago, SullyMcGully said:

I mean, yeah. My role sucks. That's not new info. But how is it scummy?

It's believably weak

Also the PoE is just too strong for me to care, it could be either alignment, its just not obvtown

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unbelievably*

Like, it was weak before the full claim, but now it seems even more so? And you cleared eclipse and said you'd follow up on that. You never did. Firstly, I don't believe that as town you would argue that not being visited clears eclipse as town. I think there is absolutely something else to your role you aren't saying, and it has to be more than "I'm mafia".

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If that role is a Mafia role, I think the reasoning would have been that it's a provable and has no other practical value to scum, so it's probably town, which actually makes it a good clearing tool for scum. i.e. It's a WIFOM argument to guess what the hosts want.

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1 minute ago, Vi-astra said:

sully's roleclaim was townie tho. that's why I'm hesitant to lynch him 

Was the way he claimed it townie? What about the way he claimed his results?

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@SullyMcGully There is one question in your scenario that needs answering and that is, who would be your deep wolf if Arc is Mafia and you are town? How can you be sure that the town will correctly find this wolf if you can't even do it, are the only one who suspects it, and are lynching yourself instead of casing other people?

How is town helped if we don't find the other Mafia before you die?

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image.thumb.png.9a76872d8f830a9ba18b5db95733059b.png

I'm using screenshots because you can't quote quotes. Makaze, you should read an ISO of me instead of just when and where I voted. Weapons had just claimed to be a tracker who saw Kirsche visit that night's NK target, Eurykins. It was a troll that just felt weird to me, but I thought it could just be his personality, which is why I agreed with Mack there.

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People give me a lot of flak for pressuring Bibbon, but the fact is that his reads weren't the best and there was absolutely no reason for him to claim jailer when he did. I thought there could be a scum reason for them to do that, but ultimately the weirdness was just foolishness that was NAI.

And I like explained my Refa/Via read right there. They were subpar compared to my previous experience with them in P5, but I hadn't read Via's caffeinated night which pretty much made him obvtown. Also, in P5 they were networked together, but I had forgotten about that. I'm still lightly suspicious of Refa in this game.

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Why is that bit about subs scummy? It's true! Zeus, Bibbon, Weapons, Nightmare, Junko, etc. were all scummy in some way or another before they subbed out. Probability states that of the people who are scummy, one of them is probably scum. I like how the part where I say I'm going to vote Bibbon is in blue, but the part where I actually do is in red.

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It had just come to light that Mack hadn't been using the quicktopic with Fable. I thought Kirsche's Shinori case was pretty bad. I still do.

As I said earlier in D3, my Kirsche case was inconclusive and I never thought it would be sheeped the way it was. 

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I thought it was generally agreed that Eclipse was town after the Shinori flip. As for my other logic, I'm not quite sure if I ever got around to that, haha. Not something I would build a case out of. 

OK, so I still don't see your problem, @Makaze. Is it because I'm not good at this? That's been a given since the beginning. I originally was in line to be an actual player in this game (not a sub) but I backed out because I didn't want a skilled player losing their spot because I got in. I only joined later to help Iris because she needed subs. I generally sheep larger players in a game, trying to come up with my own unique reads from time to time, but they generally aren't any good. That may sound scummy, but it's how I play. If you think I would only play this way as scum, read P5.

If my play is scummy, then lynch me over that. But I don't see how there isn't a world where I could be town. Where was the smoking gun for you, Makaze?

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