We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[Refa]

1 minute ago, Omega. said:

What do you make of this Makaze push on eclipse?

I still think wolf between Junko/kirsche in all worlds.

I agree that she hasn't had any pushes so far that I've been convinced by.  Tone wise, I don't feel confident in lynching her though.

[Refa]

Like, what bothers me is that I'm trying to think when one of her cases affected the game state on some level and am coming up blank.  Did I forget something?

[Makaze]

1 minute ago, Refa said:

I agree that she hasn't had any pushes so far that I've been convinced by.  Tone wise, I don't feel confident in lynching her though.

Are you convinced she actually has scum read any of the people she has pushed?

[Refa]

Just now, Makaze said:

Are you convinced she actually has scum read any of the people she has pushed?

Nope.  Currently she's a scumread because I agree w/your case, I just don't feel as strongly about it.  I'm still in the process of reevaluating three of those reads (BBM, Shinori, Snike) as well, so it kind of depends on that as well.

[Makaze]

Just now, Refa said:

Like, what bothers me is that I'm trying to think when one of her cases affected the game state on some level and am coming up blank.  Did I forget something?

She took a hard pass on the Bartazio lynch and null read him well into the wagon. Not sure what else she could impact with so many nulls.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

I mean, I don't find an eclipse push entirely unreasonable. She has been on bad play like a hawk, and I have very little to work with regarding her on D2. What does give me some doubt is how open she's been about punishing bad play. Like, would she be that shameless/open about it as scum? Wish I played with her more, might help me make a better call here.

I can tell you that if either eclipse/Walrein are wolves, the other is probably unpartnered due to an early interaction where eclipse hinted at a power role, and Walrein was like "I'm excited if this is what I think it is" (I thought she was going to be an inno child, myself) then the votals showed a doublevote. Didn't look planned to me.

I'ma go reread her posts from last night, specifically where she gave a few stances/reads.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

7 hours ago, eclipse said:

And that self-deprecating tone is the worst thing I have against you, because it's so out-of-place from the rest of your posts.

Btw, I intended no self-deprecation with my post. I was more expressing frustration over being read wolf with no effort to engage me directly on a read Snike disagreed on with me.

[Refa]

3 minutes ago, Omega. said:

I mean, I don't find an eclipse push entirely unreasonable. She has been on bad play like a hawk, and I have very little to work with regarding her on D2. What does give me some doubt is how open she's been about punishing bad play. Like, would she be that shameless/open about it as scum? Wish I played with her more, might help me make a better call here.

She does that as town as well; I wouldn't scumread her solely for that. I think the difference for me is that as town, she has more hard town/scum reads and is a more influential player than she has been this game.  

[Makaze]

3 minutes ago, Omega. said:

I mean, I don't find an eclipse push entirely unreasonable. She has been on bad play like a hawk, and I have very little to work with regarding her on D2. What does give me some doubt is how open she's been about punishing bad play. Like, would she be that shameless/open about it as scum? Wish I played with her more, might help me make a better call here.

I can tell you that if either eclipse/Walrein are wolves, the other is probably unpartnered due to an early interaction where eclipse hinted at a power role, and Walrein was like "I'm excited if this is what I think it is" (I thought she was going to be an inno child, myself) then the votals showed a doublevote. Didn't look planned to me.

I'ma go reread her posts from last night, specifically where she gave a few stances/reads.

If I wasn't reading Omega town before, I am now. This is PoE that is likely to be missed (I missed it myself, haven't read Walrein) and it seems extremely unlikely that this post would come from a scum who is partnered with eclipse OR Walrein in this context. It would take a lot of prepwork to plan this kind of defense in advance. Genuine solving that doesn't benefit the mafia, Omega has to be town.

[Makaze]

1 minute ago, Refa said:

She does that as town as well; I wouldn't scumread her solely for that. I think the difference for me is that as town, she has more hard town/scum reads and is a more influential player than she has been this game.  

Indeed. I was waiting for her to finish for the day or at least come out with something, but it's been more than 6 days and she doesn't have anything to show for it. I don't think that is possible if she isn't Mafia.

[BBM]

Rip i woke up late and have to leave almoat right away. Why are people waiting for junko to claim when he subbed out? His sub subbed out too so... Did I miss something?

[Refa]

Just now, BBM said:

Rip i woke up late and have to leave almoat right away. Why are people waiting for junko to claim when he subbed out? His sub subbed out too so... Did I miss something?

He subbed back in to his own slot.

[BBM]

Oh must have missed that.

I'm not faulting eclipse for not having a lot of reads. It just feels more like a lot more of her game has been based on pushing people without any content than it normally is. And her fixation on tone changes seems over the top

[Makaze]

I have to leave in about 15 minutes so typing up my reads list (sorry I will probably forget someone):

Town

Refa
Omega.
Alette
BBM
Via (this one is only tone so who knows)

Townleaning

kirsche
athena
Kaoz
Fable
Shinori

Scummleaning (either Mafia or ITP)

Weapons
Junko
Mack
Jaybee

Scum

eclipse

Unread/possible scum

SullyMcGully
Walrein
Lord Gaius
Satsuma + Snike

[ZoesMad]

I need the night phase to get caught up on the full readthrough, hold me to it if I don't finish by D3 morning. 

I've skimmed the cases on the table for today. I would want to lynch Eclipse today if that can happen, very non committal to holding any one stance wrt bartozio lynch, abundance of null reads. I'm not seeing scum!athena for aforementioned reasons + the fact that  

Can someone summarize Junko case for me? I'm still missing a lot of pieces of the game :x

2 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

EXCEPT I really think we oughtta lynch Kirsche instead of Junko. First off, if I had been subbed out of a scum slot I don't think I would offer to sub back in for any amount of time! 

I think this is really relevant, regardless of in game circumstances I'm trying to imagine myself doing this and there's no chance in hell i'd do it as scum.

can someone make a list of claims for me?

##Vote: Eclipse

[Makaze]

I am reluctant to put Junko there because honestly when I read Junko I don't get the feeling he is being ingenuine, and I almost always get that feeling with him. In a vacuum I would read him as a bad town.

I am putting him in scumlean because I think he makes sense as Mafia and everyone else scum reads him and I have never been able to read him properly.

If I had my way, we should lynch eclipse today, and I still think there is a decent possibility that Junk and kirsche are town fighting and eclipse knows it.

[ZoesMad]

FRT not the kirsche scumread part in the post above, about the stuff with Junko. I'm not gonna get concrete reads on everyone until tomorrow. 

[Makaze]

On 4/15/2018 at 10:25 AM, athena_57 said:

Okay, I see a Kirsche wagon forming, but I'm not completely sure where that's coming from. I hear he's tunneling a lot, but to me it didn't feel like that at all tbh, I'll reread him, but in the meantime, could someone link me a post containing a sort of summary of the Kirsche case (or make one)? I assume there is one, but I can't find it.

As for Marth, I suppose I'll reread him as well (not like it's much effort) as if the attacks on him are justified it might be a good reason to re-evaluate my null read.

I claimed co-connector, each night I select someone who gets a quicktopic with someone else selected by a player with the same ability I have. This QT lasts until one of them dies, and an additional one is created each night. Last night I selected Refa, but was redirected to Nightmare (now replaced by Mack) who martyr'd Refa. The other player in the QT claimed, it's Fable, we don't know the other connector.

Nightmare/Mack claimed martyr, (select a player, all actions targeting that player target Mack instead)

Eclipse is confirmed Mayor

Snike/Satsuma hydra claimed role miller I think? They'd better explain themselves, I didn't fully understand it, but the point is, investigation results on them are wrong.

Magnificence Incarnate claimed delayer+self-watcher

Bibbon (you) claimed jailor

Via claimed riddler, he needs our character names and is vanilla till he knows all of them

Sully claimed this weird role where they select someone and their action fails if that person uses a night action. They used it on Kirsche, the role failed, Kirsche confirmed (or at least didn't deny) he used a night action. (Side note, Sully made the awkward decision of starting a Kirsche case over this, but that was dropped after he realized there were way less vanilla townies (read: none) in this game than what he's used to)

I think that's everyone? Sorry if I missed someone or got something wrong.

 

As for my top 3 lynch targets:

Nr 1: Jaybee BBM opened this case here, I joined and added some points here   and  

 He defended himself here, which I commented on here BBM also replied to him somewhere, I suggest you look it up.

Point is, JB has been inactive, only posting surface level reads and not interacting, whilst keeping his vote on yesterday's mislynch wagon whilst he was scumreading someone else (for whom you subbed in). Then out of nowhere in the midst of questioning her (you now), he feels the need to leave himself a way out and says he feels a lot better about it today without explaining why.

Nr 2: Nightmare/Mack (sub)

Mack is still catching up, but Nightmare is in the same boat as JB, in that he's only been posting these surface-level uninteractive summaries from time to time. 30 minutes before phase end, when the biggest wagon was only halfway to providing a lynch, he decided to not contribute to a lynch but vote someone who wasn't going to be lynched that day. He also made a really weird comment on Snike then, saying:

"You seem a little over-eager to push the Bartozio lynch, Snike. I know we'll need a lynch by the end of the day, but it's making me a bit uneasy", around 10 minutes before phase end whilst no lynch was a massive threat at the time, it read like he was setting himself up for a Bart town-flip.

Nightmare has subbed out now, so my vote isn't here whilst I'm waiting for the sub to catch up.

Nr 3 Zeus

I'm null on him, but Zeus has made it clear he isn't going to scumhunt or contribute. Yesterday we reached a sort of consensus he should be vigged, but that didn't happen. If none of my scumreads get anywhere, I'm willing to consolidate here to get rid of him, I feel multiple people are in the same boat.

 

athena's claim list

i think there is one error but i gotno time to search

[Refa]

2 minutes ago, Lord Gaius said:

I think this is really relevant, regardless of in game circumstances I'm trying to imagine myself doing this and there's no chance in hell i'd do it as scum.

can someone make a list of claims for me?

##Vote: Eclipse

Oh fuck, you're probably right.  Don't think Junk enjoys playing scum much as well...Kinda a dumb reason to not lynch, but I'll take it.

Read my spoilered Junk case on Page 50.  It's not that big, trust me.

List of claims TMK is as follows.

athena_57- Co-Networker
eclipse- Mayor
Kaoz (replacing Bibbon)- Jailor
Mackc2 (replacing Nightmare)- Macho Martyr
SullyMcGully (replacing Elieson)- Active Checker
Via- Needs all character claims
Weapons- Announcer
 

[Refa]

##Unvote

[Refa]

##Vote: eclipse

Looked at the current wagons, this is the only (legitimate, I'm not counting Arcanite's joke vote) wagon I'd be comfortable with ATM.  Weapons would be okay but I don't know if his lashing out at the end is more likely to come from town/scum.

[Iris]

Day 2.zzzzzz
Junko (7): Omega., athena_57, Mackc2, eclipse, Snike + SatsumaFSoySoy, Kaoz
eclipse (3): Makaze, Lord Gaius, Refa
Mackc2 (2): Jaybee, Zkirsche
Weapons (2): BBM, Alette
Zkirsche (2): Junko, SullyMcGully
athena_57 (1): Shinori
Jaybee (1): Via
Omega (1): Walrein
Shinori (1): Arcanite

Not Voting: Fable

You have ~5 hours left in the day.  With 20 alive, it takes 7 to lynch and 14 to hammer.

[Refa]

@Omega. @athena_57 @Mackc2 @Kaoz @BBM @Junk Please give your thoughts on voting Eclipse ASAP.

[Athena_57]

5 minutes ago, Refa said:

@Omega. @athena_57 @Mackc2 @Kaoz @BBM @Junk Please give your thoughts on voting Eclipse ASAP.

Id have to reread, but Ill be back later today, have to leave now. Glossing over it Id consolidate, but Id rather vote Junko atm.

You'll get a definitive opinion from me later.

[SullyMcGully]

Don't have time for a reread unfortunately. I'm fine with the votes on Eclipse for pressure purposes, but... I really don't want to lynch there. If we mess up, we're getting rid of a pretty useful town player. Yeah some of her play seems scummy, but... I just feel like there have got to be better options. Like, if this is a mislynch, then scum are going to be very happy with it.

I'm going to read the Kirsche ISO.