World of Thracia Summoning Event (April 11 ~): Leif, Nanna, and New Reinhardt and Olwen

[bottlegnomes]

11 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Finn as a TT reward is very disappointing.  Now free units are great and all, everyone gets a copy and all that, however there are substantial downsides.  They are stuck with neutral boon/bane, limited merge potential, and finally they are rarely made very powerful.  If Finn was a banner unit he would have likely had a PRF version of brave lance, maybe something like what the new Reinhardt has or maybe something like Amiti. Instead he is a decent statted but generic lance cavalier.  

Leif is solid and may be stronger than it seems, however the Light brand in Heroes seems to not represent the Thracia version at all even if it is a decently powerful effect.  What is unfortunate is just how much in the shadow of the new Reinhardt he is.  They both share a color, everyone is going to say I spend a million orbs for Reinhardt but instead I got x amount of useless leaves.  Reinhardt just so obviously looks like a super powerful unit.  With his native deathblow and an attack boon, he is sword cherche on a horse hitting for 55x2, or 61x2 with hone. He can be built into a very powerful player phase unit, but then since his brave sword has the same effect on enemy phase and he has good defense and solid res he can be built into a terrifying enemy phase unit as well.  Distant counter, QR, distant defense seal, fortify and hone cav buffs.  

This is the debut of a main game lord and he is an afterthought, the star is the new Reinhardt.  I think that is the worst part about this banner.  

I think you're under estimating Lief. With SS2 and +SPD, he'll be looking at 59 attack and 45 speed against basically every physical enemy. All the enemies that he doesn't get the +7 against are either mages he'll probably kill anyway or mixed tanks which you have other people to deal with. Will Reinhardt be better, very possibly, but Leif is no slouch.

And yeah, QR on Reinhardt doesn't seem like a good idea. With -SPD because that's still his best bane, he's got 15 speed, which gets doubled by almost literally everything. On top of that, it only takes 51 physical attack and 48 magical attack to 2HKO him. Is that decent bulk? Yeah, but it's hardly a difficult mark to reach. Heck, Fury Xander 2HKOs and doubles him if neither has buffs and takes less than half his health in damage. Rein still needs to kill the enemy before they attack to have any survivability. His best build is almost certainly going to be either just going with the usual DB PP unit or DC, Vantage, whatever C slot. Without DC, an EP is going to be a sitting duck against ranged units; bow users will quad him to death and non-green mages will eat him alive. And even then, he needs to manage to survive a round to get himself into that range.

At higher arena levels, DC might not be as much of an issue, but I've never been that high, so I don't know. You'd have to ask the guys up there how that would play out.

[Othin]

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Who is Leif? What is a Thracia?

Just pray that one day he gets his FE4 Master Knight self in here for some redemption free of Rein and Olwen. Outside of them thanks to this game, Thracia has no popular characters in it that could be rehashed. Just hope no Reinwen Emblem one day.

Considering Altena's low CYL rankings, Master Knight Leif may end up as the one to introduce Gaebolg.

If that does happen, it'd make sense for it to be in an FE4 banner, but I feel like they'd put it in an FE5 one instead.

Speaking of FE4, Gaebolg was also my idea for how they might make the inevitable Lord Knight Seliph distinct from Sigurd, so... hmm.

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

Considering Altena's low CYL rankings, Master Knight Leif may end up as the one to introduce Gaebolg.

If that does happen, it'd make sense for it to be in an FE4 banner, but I feel like they'd put it in an FE5 one instead.

Speaking of FE4, Gaebolg was also my idea for how they might make the inevitable Lord Knight Seliph distinct from Sigurd, so... hmm.

We still have the Bragi Sword unused, but the Gae Bolg is sadly reasonable too and actually puts Leif into another color. (But Altena deserves better- so many could deserve better. And what of Quan?)

Lord Knight Seliph? He has Minor Naga, give him the tome for a new Green Tome Cav. Or go ahead and toss him Gungnir, I doubt Travant and Arion are highly ranked either.

[bottlegnomes]

21 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

We still have the Bragi Sword unused, but the Gae Bolg is sadly reasonable too and actually puts Leif into another color. (But Altena deserves better- so many could deserve better. And what of Quan?)

Lord Knight Seliph? He has Minor Naga, give him the tome for a new Green Tome Cav. Or go ahead and toss him Gungnir, I doubt Travant and Arion are highly ranked either.

It doesn't exactly bode well regardless, but hey, Travant, 484, did better than Saias, 515, and he got in. Arion didn't do significantly worse at 540.

Altena did decentish. 292 isn't exactly good, but it's not absolutely abysmal, and Quan actually did pretty well for a character that's never gotten an international release and isn't already in Heroes at 111. Did some checking, and unless I missed someone, Quan is actually ranked second highest of all the characters that both weren't released internationally and aren't in heroes, Lewyn being first at 65.

Edited April 10, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Book Bro said:

Everyone is freaking out about Reinhardt and Olwen and I just find it hilarious thinking about a potential remake down the line and people with no exposure to Jugdral outside of Heroes being totally confused about how minor they are in the game.

I'm aiming for Leif and Olwen first and then maybe Reinhardt and last of all Nanna. Sorry but I just don't really use staff units. Glad Finn is free though I feel like maybe he and Reinhardt should've switched places.

If they do release a remake, they could give Reinhardt and Olwen bigger roles and more back story.

Staff units are amongst the best nukes, tying with Firesweep archers in my opinion, although they are quite expensive to build.

[Interdimensional Observer]

6 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

It doesn't exactly bode well regardless, but hey, Travant, 484, did better than Saias, 515, and he got in. Arion didn't do significantly worse at 540.

Altena did decentish. 292 isn't exactly good, but it's not absolutely abysmal.

Saias has the benefit of being an enemy in a game without many good villains to choose from. And one of the other good choices for that game has been in it and will keep owning it like a boss- Reinhardt. Veld, Raydrik, Lifis, Perne, Galzus, are about it for the other options.

292 out of 791 puts Altena her in the top 37%. Travant is in the top 61%. Arion the 68%. Although anything below like 200, the top quarter, and you're sweating the small stuff.

[Book Bro]

42 minutes ago, Othin said:

Considering Altena's low CYL rankings, Master Knight Leif may end up as the one to introduce Gaebolg.

*makes a mental note to vote for Altena in CYL3*

[bottlegnomes]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Saias has the benefit of being an enemy in a game without many good villains to choose from. And one of the other good choices for that game has been in it and will keep owning it like a boss- Reinhardt. Veld, Raydrik, Lifis, Perne, Galzus, are about it for the other options.

292 out of 791 puts Altena her in the top 37%. Travant is in the top 61%. Arion the 68%. Although anything below like 200, the top quarter, and you're sweating the small stuff.

You think? I know Veld and Raydrick are pretty bleh, but the rest, plus Eyvel, Kempf, and possibly Ilios, would all be pretty good choices. Not saying Saias was a bad choice—on the contrary, I quite like him and am very happy about it—but I mostly meant that as it's not impossible for them to get in, even if their odds aren't the greatest.

For Altena, again, as you said, not exactly the greatest argument, but she was only 31 places and about 150 votes behind Olwen, who was deemed a sure enough bet to get an alt.

[Othin]

This makes me curious about missing units from the top 200.

• 4: Veronica (Heroes)
• 10: Loki (Heroes)
• 21: Selkie (FE14)
• 26: Owain (FE13)
• 29: Laevatein (Heroes)
• 33: Kliff (FE2/15)
• 34: Keaton (FE14)
• 41: Aversa (FE13)
• 43: Ishtar (FE4)
• 44: Panne (FE13)
• 46: Kaden (FE14)
• 51: Maribelle (FE13)
• 53: Sumia (FE13)
• 54: Velouria (FE14)
• 58, 109: Tibarn (FE10, FE9)
• 59: Kaze (FE14)
• 61: Ophelia (FE14)
• 62: Surtr (Heroes)
• 64: Haar (FE10)
• 65: Lewyn (FE4)
• 67: Charlotte (FE14) (seasonal)
• 68, 133: Anna (FE13, FE14)
• 69, 87: Ranulf (FE9, FE10)
• 71: Bruno (Heroes)
• 72: Louise (FE7)
• 73: Severa (FE13)
• 76: Rinea (FE2/15)
• 77: Female Kana (FE14)
• 81: Nils (FE7)
• 83: Rinkah (FE14)
• 85: Flora (FE14)
• 86: Lethe (FE9)
• 89: Canas (FE7)
• 91: Lilith (FE14)
• 100: Cormag (FE8)
• 105: Rath (FE7)
• 106: Conrad (FE2/15)
• 107: Python (FE2/15)
• 110: Male Kana (FE14)
• 111: Quan (FE4)
• 112: Pent (FE7)
• 114: Nyx (FE14)
• 115: Noire (FE13)
• 116: Ross (FE8)
• 117: Forrest (FE14)
• 119: Inigo (FE13) (seasonal)
• 122: Nah (FE13)
• 125: Nailah (FE10)
• 128: Silas (FE14)
• 129, 139: Jill (FE9, FE10)
• 131, 168: Ilyana (FE9, FE10)
• 132: Naga (FE13)
• 134: Mila (FE2/15)
• 135: Erk (FE7)
• 136: Knoll (FE8)
• 138: Caeldori (FE14)
• 142: Leanne (FE10)
• 143: Mikoto (FE14)
• 148: Silque (FE2/15)
• 149: Emmeryn (FE13)
• 151: Idunn (FE6)
• 159: Rutger (FE6)
• 160: Sain (FE7)
• 161: Greil (FE9)
• 166: Orochi (FE14)
• 169: Larcei (FE4)
• 171: Athos (FE7)
• 175: Reyson (FE9)
• 179: Libra (FE13)
• 180: Scarlet (FE14)
• 184: Guy (FE7)
• 189: Shinon (FE10)
• 191: Say'ri (FE13)
• 192: Nina (FE14)
• 193: Walhart (FE13)
• 194: Anankos (FE14)
• 197: Reina (FE14)
• 198: Legault (FE7)
• 199: Dwyer (FE14)
• 200: Gerik (FE8)

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, bottlegnomes said:

You think? I know Veld and Raydrick are pretty bleh, but the rest, plus Eyvel, Kempf, and possibly Ilios, would all be pretty good choices. Not saying Saias was a bad choice—on the contrary, I quite like him and am very happy about it—but I mostly meant that as it's not impossible for them to get in, even if their odds aren't the greatest.

For Altena, again, as you said, not exactly the greatest argument, but she was only 31 places and about 150 votes behind Olwen, who was deemed a sure enough bet to get an alt.

Ultimately there can be no certainties here. We can assume IS will emphasize the popular over the unpopular, but beyond that, we can't predict much. IS has to some degree take into consideration non-popularity factors.

 

59 minutes ago, Othin said:

• 169: Larcei (FE4)
• 171: Athos (FE7)

Odd to see two of these so close. A young cute sword girl and an old magic man.

 

1 hour ago, Othin said:

• 72: Louise (FE7)
• 81: Nils (FE7)
• 89: Canas (FE7)
• 105: Rath (FE7)
• 112: Pent (FE7)

The top five for FE7, three of whom would pair well together, and Louise might have enough lady appeal to float 2-3 men. Nils taking the FE7 silver is great for me. Rath is something I really want in this game- a new permanent Bow Cav. FE7 overall did well for the top 200.

 

1 hour ago, Othin said:

• 21: Selkie (FE14)
• 34: Keaton (FE14)
• 46: Kaden (FE14)
• 54: Velouria (FE14)

Well this says it all, the four highest Fates additions are all the Wolfskin/Kitsune! 

There are a lot of Fates humans also in the list- expectable due to its relatively recent and popular release.

 

1 hour ago, Othin said:

• 58, 109: Tibarn (FE10, FE9)
• 64: Haar (FE10)
• 69, 87: Ranulf (FE9, FE10)
• 86: Lethe (FE9)
• 125: Nailah (FE10)
• 129, 139: Jill (FE9, FE10)
• 131, 168: Ilyana (FE9, FE10)
• 142: Leanne (FE10)
• 161: Greil (FE9)
• 175: Reyson (FE9)
• 189: Shinon (FE10)

Half of the top 200, and 4 of the top 5 Tellius additions are Laguz. More fuel for the bestial fire.

 

1 hour ago, Othin said:

• 26: Owain (FE13)
• 41: Aversa (FE13)
• 44: Panne (FE13)
• 51: Maribelle (FE13)
• 53: Sumia (FE13)
• 68, 133: Anna (FE13, FE14)

No theme here, but once again, a beast ranks highly.

 

1 hour ago, Othin said:

• 43: Ishtar (FE4)
• 65: Lewyn (FE4)
• 111: Quan (FE4)
• 169: Larcei (FE4)

Only four for FE4 in the top 200. Pitiful, but expectable-ish, the same can be said for who made it in.

 

1 hour ago, Othin said:

• 100: Cormag (FE8)
• 116: Ross (FE8)
• 136: Knoll (FE8)
• 200: Gerik (FE8)

Prepare for a Tana variant! The top 4, just barely that, Magvelians are all men! Knoll must have gotten a few pity votes partway into CYL2. 

 

1 hour ago, Othin said:

• 33: Kliff (FE2/15)
• 76: Rinea (FE2/15)
• 106: Conrad (FE2/15)
• 107: Python (FE2/15)
• 134: Mila (FE2/15)
• 148: Silque (FE2/15)

Five characters from the recent SoV. Well Rinea should be a sight to behold being naked and on fire and all. Why do I think someone is going to crudely plaster her body on Sigurd and a bunch of others?

Kliff is expected- the lone Ram Villager not in yet. Conrad is Celica's brother. Mila, that would be interesting. Silque is okay. The only one I don't understand is Python.

 

1 hour ago, Othin said:

• 151: Idunn (FE6)
• 159: Rutger (FE6)

Now this is bad, only two of FE6's made the top 200. Busting out Shanna variant? Idunn is going to be G-H-B I G-U-E-S-S. Or maybe not, if she is so craved, then make her a standard summon- the precedent was set with the Rein, and reinforced with Fallen Heroes.

 

And nobody not in already from FE5 or Archanea is in the top 200, no wonder they put out another Rein and Olwen. Can't say FE11-12 didn't condemn itself to this with so little additional characterization.

[Othin]

35 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ultimately there can be no certainties here. We can assume IS will emphasize the popular over the unpopular, but beyond that, we can't predict much. IS has to some degree take into consideration non-popularity factors.

 

Odd to see two of these so close. A young cute sword girl and an old magic man.

 

The top five for FE7, three of whom would pair well together, and Louise might have enough lady appeal to float 2-3 men. Nils taking the FE7 silver is great for me. Rath is something I really want in this game- a new permanent Bow Cav. FE7 overall did well for the top 200.

 

Well this says it all, the four highest Fates additions are all the Wolfskin/Kitsune! 

There are a lot of Fates humans also in the list- expectable due to its relatively recent and popular release.

 

Half of the top 200, and 4 of the top 5 Tellius additions are Laguz. More fuel for the bestial fire.

 

No theme here, but once again, a beast ranks highly.

 

Only four for FE4 in the top 200. Pitiful, but expectable-ish, the same can be said for who made it in.

 

Prepare for a Tana variant! The top 4, just barely that, Magvelians are all men! Knoll must have gotten a few pity votes partway into CYL2. 

 

Five characters from the recent SoV. Well Rinea should be a sight to behold being naked and on fire and all. Why do I think someone is going to crudely plaster her body on Sigurd and a bunch of others?

Kliff is expected- the lone Ram Villager not in yet. Conrad is Celica's brother. Mila, that would be interesting. Silque is okay. The only one I don't understand is Python.

 

Now this is bad, only two of FE6's made the top 200. Busting out Shanna variant? Idunn is going to be G-H-B I G-U-E-S-S. Or maybe not, if she is so craved, then make her a standard summon- the precedent was set with the Rein, and reinforced with Fallen Heroes.

 

And nobody not in already from FE5 or Archanea is in the top 200, no wonder they put out another Rein and Olwen. Can't say FE11-12 didn't condemn itself to this with so little additional characterization.

Yeah, beasts are one of my biggest takeaways here. I don't know how long their development cycles are, but if they didn't already have something in the works, I'm sure we'll get beasts added by around the time CYL 2 stuff is being added.

I think some sort of (non-fallen) villain banner is likely to happen at some point. Particularly for Aversa, since even though they're adding more flying mages, I don't think they'll want any below 5* anytime soon. Such a banner is certainly something Idunn could piggyback off of.

It's worth bearing in mind that a big reason for FE1/3 and to a lesser extent FE6 to not have many units here is that they already have a bunch of playable ones. But yeah, FE5 doesn't have that excuse. There's a reason it's the last game they added a banner for: it's the least-played in the series. As much as I love FE5, I can't say I'm surprised.

[thecrimsonflash]

31 minutes ago, Othin said:

Yeah, beasts are one of my biggest takeaways here. I don't know how long their development cycles are, but if they didn't already have something in the works, I'm sure we'll get beasts added by around the time CYL 2 stuff is being added.

I don't know why but beasts just feel like one of those things that IS just doesn't want to do, they could have at least laid down the groundwork from the start but they didn't, there is also the matter of regardless of how they handle them it will require a fairly large overhaul and at least two banners worth of units to get the ball rolling(or injecting some units into the lower pools but I doubt it will happen), a new weapon class is also needed. IS really shot themselves in the foot from the start when they didn't want to add them in the beginning, leading to more work and overcomplicating the inclusion.

I imagine the production of this would have to start roughly twice as early as a usual banner, probably about CYL length as far as production goes, because while characters are not hard to determine, figuring out how to make them stand out could prove to be harder than necessary.

[DraceEmpressa]

3 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

I don't know why but beasts just feel like one of those things that IS just doesn't want to do, they could have at least laid down the groundwork from the start but they didn't, there is also the matter of regardless of how they handle them it will require a fairly large overhaul and at least two banners worth of units to get the ball rolling(or injecting some units into the lower pools but I doubt it will happen), a new weapon class is also needed. IS really shot themselves in the foot from the start when they didn't want to add them in the beginning, leading to more work and overcomplicating the inclusion.

I imagine the production of this would have to start roughly twice as early as a usual banner, probably about CYL length as far as production goes, because while characters are not hard to determine, figuring out how to make them stand out could prove to be harder than necessary.

'cause Japan hates them. The mechanic of the Laguz' transformation in both gameolay and plot (not Laguz as individuals) ruined Tellius series hard for them. Inclusion that dragons are also laguz in tellius not helping. They even still hates Taguels. While it is fact they do love the Fates beasts, I do think they're avoiding the possible uproars  from the other beasts if the beasts themselves is implemented. 

[Strullemia]

Spent all of my 320 orbs and got Leo, Katarina, Nanna and Olwen. I had awful red orb luck, I hope I still get Leif. I have Lachesis and Nanna, Finn will be TT so I still need him to complete the family theme. 

[Jotari]

-Leif looks a little weird in this artwork. Think it has something to do with his eyes. Light Sword has a cool effect, but I was really hoping for melee range magical attacks.

-Olwen has a cool tome but...why?  A green thunder tome? And it has nothing to do with her in game ability. It's a cool effect, I'd definitely like to pair it up with my Eirika if I draw her but...why? I didn't even think she was that popular a character for an alt, I thought Reinhardt outshined her completely. If it was the Holy Sword I'd understand, but instead we get another random PRF tome (wait, it is PRF right?). Why not give it to her counter part, Ilios? I was arguing in favor of Alts in the other thread, but this one I find to just be a bit needless.

-Reinhardt, like I said, I think it would have been better if Olwen got the Holy Sword, but I can understand giving it to Reinhardt as he's the one that has it initially and he's popular enough to deserve an alt.

-Nanna, probably the least interesting actually. Just another healer. Alts might not be interesting to some from a conceptual view point, but a character that in terms of gameplay is pretty indistinguishable from her mother his worse imo. Would have preferred they gave her the Earth Sword, a flimsy unit but one that can heal all damage dealt, is that not interesting (I know she has Absorb, but due to staff damage calculations, that's not much unless you upgrade it and even then it only heals half damage)?

 

So I'm kind of disappointed in all the units, but the sum is somehow greater than the whole and I'm inexplicably satisfied because Thracia. Hallelujah Leif is finally here!

[Othin]

Got Reinhardt! Also a 4* m!Morgan and another Eirika. Swift Sparrow fodder is tempting, but she has a way better nature than my first one, so I'll merge instead. 

8 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said:

I don't know why but beasts just feel like one of those things that IS just doesn't want to do, they could have at least laid down the groundwork from the start but they didn't, there is also the matter of regardless of how they handle them it will require a fairly large overhaul and at least two banners worth of units to get the ball rolling(or injecting some units into the lower pools but I doubt it will happen), a new weapon class is also needed. IS really shot themselves in the foot from the start when they didn't want to add them in the beginning, leading to more work and overcomplicating the inclusion.

I imagine the production of this would have to start roughly twice as early as a usual banner, probably about CYL length as far as production goes, because while characters are not hard to determine, figuring out how to make them stand out could prove to be harder than necessary.

I think it's the sort of thing that makes sense for them to hold off on for a while to build excitement. It's not like they wouldn't have given any thought to implementation over the first year, and they're not going to just refuse to implement the top remaining CYL units out of some grudge. It'd look especially weird by the time the next Farfetched Heroes banner shows up, so I'm confident we'll get beasts implemented by then. So in the next ~6 months, probably.

One set of 4-6 characters would be a fine enough start, I think.

[Jotari]

27 minutes ago, Othin said:

Got Reinhardt! Also a 4* m!Morgan and another Eirika. Swift Sparrow fodder is tempting, but she has a way better nature than my first one, so I'll merge instead. 

I think it's the sort of thing that makes sense for them to hold off on for a while to build excitement. It's not like they wouldn't have given any thought to implementation over the first year, and they're not going to just refuse to implement the top remaining CYL units out of some grudge. It'd look especially weird by the time the next Farfetched Heroes banner shows up, so I'm confident we'll get beasts implemented by then. So in the next ~6 months, probably.

One set of 4-6 characters would be a fine enough start, I think.

The question is, how should beasts work though? If we were designing them from the start, then I'd suggest they be the counter part to dragons, with breath weapons being 2 distance and strikes being 1, like how Pavise and Aegis treats them in Awakening. But dragon stones have already been firmly implemented as one range weapon. The other option would be to make them colourless one range, but they've already shot that option in the foot with colourless breath units now being a thing. Maybe just make them vanilla coloured units like breaths and the weapons, but then what actually distinguishes them in terms of gameplay? Breath units all share the same weapon pool despite being different colours, while melee weapon users share individual weapons per pool, the only thing I can think of would be to make it so Strike Units can't change weapons at all. Which isn't actually all that exciting, you're just limiting things (even though not much weapon inheritance actually happens due to every usable unit having a superior prf). Maybe just port the transformation mechanic from Tellius? Doesn't seem like it'd work well with the small maps, short turn counts of Heroes, plus it'd be incongruous if you want to use the Awakening/Fates/Fomortiis units. I don't really see a simple and fateful way to implement beasts into the current system that would be both exciting, useful and distinct from existing units.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Jotari

[Othin]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The question is, how should beasts work though? If we were designing them from the start, then I'd suggest they be the counter part to dragons, with breath weapons being 2 distance and strikes being 1, like how Pavise and Aegis treats them in Awakening. But dragon stones have already been firmly implemented as one range weapon. The other option would be to make them colourless one range, but they've already shot that option in the foot with colourless breath units now being a thing. Maybe just make them vanilla coloured units like breaths and the weapons, but then what actually distinguishes them in terms of gameplay? Breath units all share the same weapon pool despite being different colours, while melee weapon users share individual weapons per pool, the only thing I can think of would be to make it so Strike Units can't change weapons at all. Which isn't actually all that exciting, you're just limiting things (even though not much weapon inheritance actually happens due to every usable unit having a superior prf). Maybe just port the transformation mechanic from Tellius? Doesn't seem like it'd work well with the small maps, short turn counts of Heroes, plus it'd be incongruous if you want to use the Awakening/Fates/Fomortiis units. I don't really see a simple and fateful way to implement beasts into the current system that would be both exciting, useful and distinct from existing units.

Like I said, it's something they've been thinking about.

I think the most reasonable answer is for them to be some sort of physical counterpart to breaths: melee physical weapons available in multiple interchangeable colors (including colorless, I guess) with some sort of added effect, and with special Hone/Fortify/Goad/Ward skills. The only question that leaves is what sort of added effect to give them, and while I don't have anything particularly in mind myself, there are all sorts of options. Could be as simple as something like Swift Sparrow 1 or Sturdy Stance 1.

[Book Bro]

Wellp, spent my 160ish orbs trying to get Leif and Olwen... walked away with Reinhardt (not even mad), Saber (I wanted him ages ago just bc I like him), and Rhajat (is she good fodder for anyone?). 

Guess I'll be using all my TT orbs on this banner too.

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

Like I said, it's something they've been thinking about.

I think the most reasonable answer is for them to be some sort of physical counterpart to breaths: melee physical weapons available in multiple interchangeable colors (including colorless, I guess) with some sort of added effect, and with special Hone/Fortify/Goad/Ward skills. The only question that leaves is what sort of added effect to give them, and while I don't have anything particularly in mind myself, there are all sorts of options. Could be as simple as something like Swift Sparrow 1 or Sturdy Stance 1.

Well breaths already are a physical melee weapon. Some of them can deal magic at range, but we don't have a proper magic breath at all (maybe Idoun could do that, shame none of the mage dragons in Archanea are actually important). Maybe it could be interesting if each individual beast unit could be a different colour depending on their weapon, but what would the weapons actually be then? It'd be weird if a weapon was say Great Fang and you could equip it to a bird laguz. So the weapons would need to be pretty generic to apply to all beasts, which again, is kind of boring. There's plenty of ways beasts could have been done, but with the modern system it's not really easy. You could give them all swift sparrow or something, but that'd also be weird since units typically don't have a blanket ability based on their weapon type. That's more a movement type thing.

[Othin]

23 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well breaths already are a physical melee weapon. Some of them can deal magic at range, but we don't have a proper magic breath at all (maybe Idoun could do that, shame none of the mage dragons in Archanea are actually important). Maybe it could be interesting if each individual beast unit could be a different colour depending on their weapon, but what would the weapons actually be then? It'd be weird if a weapon was say Great Fang and you could equip it to a bird laguz. So the weapons would need to be pretty generic to apply to all beasts, which again, is kind of boring. There's plenty of ways beasts could have been done, but with the modern system it's not really easy. You could give them all swift sparrow or something, but that'd also be weird since units typically don't have a blanket ability based on their weapon type. That's more a movement type thing.

No, breaths do magic damage by default. New/refined breaths are capable of switching to physical damage against ranged enemies.

I'm talking just about beasts here, not birds. Cat/tiger/lion/wolf Laguz, Taguels, Kitsunes, and Wolfskins. I think those seven could work fine with fang and/or claw weapons inheritable across the types. If they want to tie type to color, they could split the three 3DS types across the red/blue/green one way or another and split the four Laguz types across red/blue/green/colorless, but I don't think that's necessary.

Units typically don't have a blanket ability based on their weapon type, but dragons do, with the Def/Res switching thing. Given that beasts would be implemented as a physical counterpart to dragons, it makes sense for them to have their own advantage implemented the same sort of way.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Othin

[Roflolxp54]

Got none of the Focus units on first session. Ah well. At least all bonus allies in the upcoming TT are 40% score boosters now.

[Jotari]

17 minutes ago, Othin said:

No, breaths do magic damage by default. New/refined breaths are capable of switching to physical damage against ranged enemies.

I'm talking just about beasts here, not birds. Cat/tiger/lion/wolf Laguz, Taguels, Kitsunes, and Wolfskins. I think those seven could work fine with fang and/or claw weapons inheritable across the types. If they want to tie type to color, they could split the three 3DS types across the red/blue/green one way or another and split the four Laguz types across red/blue/green/colorless, but I don't think that's necessary.

Units typically don't have a blanket ability based on their weapon type, but dragons do, with the Def/Res switching thing. Given that beasts would be implemented as physical dragons, it makes sense for them to have the same sort of thing.

You have me doubting myself now, but I have the game open right now with a Grima posed to attack a Soren. He has 66 attack (including Death Blow) and Soren has 14 defense and 31 resistance. The battle forecast says he should deal 52 damage. If it was a magical attack, then it should be dealing only 35 damage. Unless Grima is some kind of special case where Expiration deviates from the norm without telling the player or does some other boosting property that coincidentally gives me the same damage value of 52, Breaths do physical damage.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Jotari

[Othin]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You have me doubting myself now, but I have the game open right now with a Grima posed to attack a Soren. He has 66 attack (including Death Blow) and Soren has 14 defense and 31 resistance. The battle forecast says he should deal 52 damage. If it was a magical attack, then it should be dealing only 35 damage. Unless Grima is some kind of special case where Expiration deviates from the norm without telling the player, Breaths do physical damage.

Like I said, new/refined breaths can switch to physical damage against ranged enemies. Check the skill description for Expiration.

[Vaximillian]

31 minutes ago, Book Bro said:

Rhajat (is she good fodder for anyone?)

Rhajat is Distant Defence 3 which is amazing.