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New Event: Grand Conquests


Coolmanio
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Well, last round didn't end nice for me. Sharena only got 4 territories so I got crap for rewards....

Now I went back to team Anna in Outrealm 2921, hopefully this time it'll go better although the map layout seems to favor Sharena here again.

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Round 2 in Outrealm 2437 ended with 11-8-11 with Alfonse and Anna tying this time and Sharena ending with the short end of the stick. Anna's team did have 15 nodes before the final two hours but my teammates ended up wasting too much effort trying to take Sharena's chokepoint instead of defending our own territories which let Alfonse and Sharena both take two nodes in the final hour.

Meanwhile, for the final round I get be on Anna's team again in Outrealm 3476. I mean, what are the chances of being put on the same team three times in a row? I mean, I'm happy to be randomly put on the team I wanted to be on but for future Grand Conquest I hope we get to pick who we want to support if only to help motivate more people to play in this somewhat flawed gamemode.

Edited by NSSKG151
added outrealm
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Welp, now that I've played quite a bit of Grand Conquest, I would like to share my thoughts.

I can't deny that I was having fun. I already liked the idea of rival domains despite its flaws, and now that we can actually use our brigades to fight other players' brigades, I couldn't help but be excited. With that being said, there are quuiiite a bit of issues that I'm hoping IS sorts out next time.

My biggest gripe with this mode is as I'm sure other people can easily agree with, the stamina system. 1 hour just to refill one stamina is ridiculous. It's difficult to try to stay on top of the game and engaged when you have to wait 8 hours and by then you already missed out on like a good 10 rounds or something. I personally think 30 minutes is much more suitable.

On that note, tiers. Tiers need to be increased (just don't increase the percent of your score that goes to neighboring areas) as that immediately kills most of my interest in playing this mode because then there's a lack of an incentive. Sure you could still try and get your team the most areas, but you'll start finding that unless you've saved all your conquest lances on the last round, you won't be making that big of a difference.

As an aside (and you don't have to agree with me here), I don't consider the final round to be the most important one. It's actually the 2nd last round that really matters. People need to secure their areas for the final round before attacking the other areas. In the previous two battles, my team was saving their lances until the last round to go on an all out offense but it didn't matter as our team was the most at risk of losing areas. In the first battle, our team (Alphonse) lost all 8 of our areas that were at risk and in the 2nd battle, our team (Alphonse again) lost 5/6 areas that were at risk. The other teams only needed to defend 1/2 areas, so they can focus their efforts in a small area whereas my team just decided to battle where ever they wanted without paying much attention (still, good job team Alphonse).

That leads me to my other big gripe, lack of communication. While it might be difficult to implement, I would actually like a list of the people on my team and also a team chat. It's quite frustrating cause I can't simply go on any Heroes forum and tell Team Alphonse a potential strategy I have in mind since everyone is separated into different outrealms. You'd have to be quite lucky to meet someone on a forum that is both in the same outrealm AND in the same team.

And there's my thoughts. Just wanted to pop in for a while. I'm tired and hungry so I'm probably gonna go back to being inactive again.

EDIT: Outrealm 2491 Team Sharena in case you're wondering. ;D

Edited by Falcom
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12 hours ago, Humanoid said:

I probably should get more friends now that the friends list is expanded, I only have 30-odd and always felt kinda bad taking up the friend slots of other players with better units because I have nothing useful to offer them in return.

@Johann I'm warming to the idea of the scaling "garrison" to the number of occupied tiles. Could even just do some basic inverse scaling where the garrison is always 50000 divided by the number of tiles owned, which neatly results in 5000 for the starting layout. At 5 tiles, the 10000 point garrison will require at least a full-multiplier Infernal total victory to take a tile which sounds reasonable to me. Teams pushing for more than 20 tiles are just taking rewards from other teams and tossing them in the bin anyway since there are no further rewards for exceeding that number, so 20:5:5 being the goal for a well-coordinated team is fairer than what we're currently seeing.

You can add me if you want (3589968470) I've geared Cain to be extremely capable for taking forts, including WoM and Galeforce. I'm like the least judgmental person ever, so I won't mind whatever you have set for your main unit.

I had originally thought of the inverse scaling, but I don't think it's strong enough of a method. There'd be too strong a drop between the lowest areas controlled (going from 50,000 points at 1, and then 25,000 points at 2), and not enough of a drop for armies with a ton of area. Here's a quick graph showing my scaling (blue) vs inverse scaling (orange):

image.png.1116082e7797075d9c655ce74e351bc6.png

Factoring in how the Cooperation Bonus works (+10% multiplier per Troop), a team with few areas wouldn't need to dedicate a tremendous amount of stamina to take back an area. 

Edited by Johann
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11 minutes ago, Falcom said:

As an aside (and you don't have to agree with me here), I don't consider the final round to be the most important one. It's actually the 2nd last round that really matters. People need to secure their areas for the final round before attacking the other areas. In the previous two battles, my team was saving their lances until the last round to go on an all out offense but it didn't matter as our team was the most at risk of losing areas. In the first battle, our team (Alphonse) lost all 8 of our areas that were at risk and in the 2nd battle, our team (Alphonse again) lost 5/6 areas that were at risk. The other teams only needed to defend 1/2 areas, so they can focus their efforts in a small area whereas my team just decided to battle where ever they wanted without paying much attention (still, good job team Alphonse).

That leads me to my other big gripe, lack of communication. While it might be difficult to implement, I would actually like a list of the people on my team and also a team chat. It's quite frustrating cause I can't simply go on any Heroes forum and tell Team Alphonse a potential strategy I have in mind since everyone is separated into different outrealms. You'd have to be quite lucky to meet someone on a forum that is both in the same outrealm AND in the same team.

And there's my thoughts. Just wanted to pop in for a while. I'm tired and hungry so I'm probably gonna go back to being inactive again.

I'd say the last four hours are of equal important. Yes, the second-last hour is important for securing key crossroads with which to either hold the line or make one last go at having a higher final territory count. However, there needs to be enough effort left for the final round in order to secure those territories, otherwise what happens is the team takes something in the second-last round, then immediately loses it due to no stamina left.

Depending on team size, a list of the entire team and a team chat might be... problematic, to say the least—especially considering some peoples' penchant for abusing online functionality like that. Even if everyone behaves, there's the issue of different languages. And even if everyone on the team ends up speaking the same language, if the size is large enough, all the chatter will just get drowned out. I guess one really rudimentary thing they could put in is, instead of the game automatically suggesting a place to attack, maybe once or twice per round, each player can make a suggestion. The HUD can then show maybe the top two voted choices and then the detailed stats screen for any other node can show how many team votes it received.

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5 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Depending on team size, a list of the entire team and a team chat might be... problematic, to say the least—especially considering some peoples' penchant for abusing online functionality like that. Even if everyone behaves, there's the issue of different languages. And even if everyone on the team ends up speaking the same language, if the size is large enough, all the chatter will just get drowned out. I guess one really rudimentary thing they could put in is, instead of the game automatically suggesting a place to attack, maybe once or twice per round, each player can make a suggestion. The HUD can then show maybe the top two voted choices and then the detailed stats screen for any other node can show how many team votes it received.

Yeah I suppose that makes sense as to why it'd be difficult to implement. Though I really doubt team size is gonna be that big of an issue (ultimately, we'll never know if that's an issue unless we get an idea of how many active outrealms there are).

I actually really like your idea of suggesting where players should attack, but I also get the feeling that trolls might abuse this function.

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This current map is terrible.

Team Sharena only needs to hold off attacks on 3 nodes (the row of 4 nodes immediately below the row that Team Alfonse's base is on) to maintain the entire southern half of the map under their control for a total of 15 nodes.

Losing the middle node of those 3 nodes leaves them with still only 3 of their own nodes under attack. Losing the east node of those 3 nodes also leaves them with still only 3 of their own nodes under attack.

Neither Team Alfonse nor Team Anna has as easy of a defensible position as this. Team Alfonse's best 3-node wall defends 9 total nodes. Team Anna's best 3-node wall defends 8 total nodes. Team Sharena not only has a 3-node wall that defends 15 nodes, but it has a 3-node wall immediately behind it that defends 13 nodes with two intermediate 3-node walls (by losing the middle or east node of the forward wall) that defend 14 nodes.

This is dumb.

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34 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

This is dumb.

It sure is LOL

ZgShvpg.png

No doubt this dominance will peter out over the next day and be brought back down to earth, but after having been on the whipping boy teams for the first two rounds (Anna --> Sharena), I'll take it.

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Outrealm 2849

I thought being on Sharena and Anna's teams meant I'd be on Alfonse's team for the last round but nope, Sharena again. And now I'm on the sandbag army. Anna had 14 territories when I went to bed. Now Alfonse has 15 and Sharena has danced around 7-8.

I'm fine with the orb and feather rewards. But they really need to double or triple the Conquest Lance rewards because most people are probably going to spam them the first round to get all the orbs and then have virtually nothing to do in the mode for the latter two outside of playing it once every 8 hours.

Which is fine except that pretty much leaves the entirety of the battle out of your control and the feather rewards at the end are tied to the territories your army has at the end. Essentially tossing you to the wind and leaving your rewards for at least 2 of the 3 battles up to chance and luck.

I did very little on Anna's team, but the army was fantastic so I got high rewards. I did a lot on Sharena's team (the first one) but the army was average so we got average rewards. Now I'm on what appears to be a lackluster team and I can do nothing. They say they're going to listen to player feedback on this mode. I hope they do and I hope they listen to the right people. It's not the saltfest that is the VG, but it's potentially frustrating in it's own right.

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Not really a big fan of Grand Conquest as it is right now. There's not much incentive for me to play after getting to GC tier 20 and maintaining control over areas isn't... I don't know.

Anyway, I know you can end up on different teams after each battle, but I managed to somehow end up on team Anna for all three battles. I like Anna, so yay. I wonder if it's a sign? Four Anna banner when? :p

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So instead of getting Sharena a third time and getting to take advantage of the favorable position she got this time, I naturally got switched (Team Anna of 2494). And also naturally, they happen to be the weak link in this outrealm (9-15-6) currently. At least there’s still a lot of time left for things to go to shit even further, all while I can barely do anything to help just like last round.

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34 minutes ago, DLNarshen said:

No doubt this dominance will peter out over the next day

Honestly, if Team Sharena focuses on their 3-node wall whenever they get pushed back (with the west node having the highest priority), it's pretty much impossible to get pushed any farther back.

When Team Sharena is pushed back to their wall, they only need to defend 3 nodes while there are 5 nodes bordering the wall split between Team Anna and Team Alfonse to defend plus the nodes that Team Anna and Team Alfonse are contesting with each other.

Team Alfonse's best bet on this map is to focus all firepower to take Area 18 to break the wall and then hold it for as long as possible while attacking neighboring nodes.

Team Anna's best bet is probably focusing on getting a single node in the middle of Team Sharena's territory to force Team Sharena to defend multiple nodes at once.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

This current map is terrible.

Team Sharena only needs to hold off attacks on 3 nodes (the row of 4 nodes immediately below the row that Team Alfonse's base is on) to maintain the entire southern half of the map under their control for a total of 15 nodes.

Losing the middle node of those 3 nodes leaves them with still only 3 of their own nodes under attack. Losing the east node of those 3 nodes also leaves them with still only 3 of their own nodes under attack.

Neither Team Alfonse nor Team Anna has as easy of a defensible position as this. Team Alfonse's best 3-node wall defends 9 total nodes. Team Anna's best 3-node wall defends 8 total nodes. Team Sharena not only has a 3-node wall that defends 15 nodes, but it has a 3-node wall immediately behind it that defends 13 nodes with two intermediate 3-node walls (by losing the middle or east node of the forward wall) that defend 14 nodes.

This is dumb.

It's actually pretty funny for me as I'm on team Sharena atm and we're sitting on 20-25 areas since hours now. :D

Anyways, I agree that the maps need to be balanced more. There's still a day left and all possibilities are open for a surprise comeback by someone (I literally saw the game go from 14-1-15 over 6-4-20 to 11-16-3 during the last round), but eeeh, it's rather unlikely.

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My current Area rewards so far:
1st round: 2 (Team Anna)
2nd round: 11 (Team Alfonse)

Right now in Outrealm 3431 Sharena is leading with 16 but she still has control over the most important chokes. If my team isn't purely made of idiots it should be easy to hold that. It kinda shows that there is too much dependence on your team doing the right thing and having the better position (if you are in Team Sharena you must have done nothing to have a low Area count at the end).

Plus that stamina system really doesn't encourage active play. You just dump all your lances at the end of a battle and the free stamina is used to hold important chokes.

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Team Anna seems to be doing good over here (which may be a bad thing because getting a lot of territories now is useless). 7-7-16 and Sharena seems to have lost her advantageous nodes.

yep.thumb.jpg.c93ea3d21656f2d96757feb8553de27b.jpg

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2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

This current map is terrible.

Team Sharena only needs to hold off attacks on 3 nodes (the row of 4 nodes immediately below the row that Team Alfonse's base is on) to maintain the entire southern half of the map under their control for a total of 15 nodes.

Losing the middle node of those 3 nodes leaves them with still only 3 of their own nodes under attack. Losing the east node of those 3 nodes also leaves them with still only 3 of their own nodes under attack.

Neither Team Alfonse nor Team Anna has as easy of a defensible position as this. Team Alfonse's best 3-node wall defends 9 total nodes. Team Anna's best 3-node wall defends 8 total nodes. Team Sharena not only has a 3-node wall that defends 15 nodes, but it has a 3-node wall immediately behind it that defends 13 nodes with two intermediate 3-node walls (by losing the middle or east node of the forward wall) that defend 14 nodes.

This is dumb.

Lol, it is actually 16 nodes (17 with the HQ) with only 3 borders. She can push 1 node North from the two nodes on the right and still maintain 3 borders. After being on Anna's teams in the first two battles, I am totally ok with Sharena's bullshit map advantage.

Every map has had 1 team with a clear-cut advantageous position. Sharena just happened to get two of them. The fact that we are randomly placed in a team at the start of each battle just means that some people can get terrible luck all 3 times and some people can get the good luck.

If each Team had an advantage in one of the 3 maps, and we stayed on the same teams in all 3 battles, I would be ok with the current maps.

Edited by Hawk King
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2 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

If each Team had an advantage in one of the 3 maps, and we stayed on the same teams in all 3 battles, I would be ok with the current maps.

Literally all they needed to do was swap which team has which base each round with no other changes to the map.

But instead, we get this mess.

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Just now, Ice Dragon said:

Literally all they needed to do was swap which team has which base each round with no other changes to the map.

But instead, we get this mess.

I take it you aren't on the Blue team.

How were your payouts on the first two battles?

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Just now, Hawk King said:

I take it you aren't on the Blue team.

How were your payouts on the first two battles?

19 nodes and 12 nodes, both on Team Sharena.

I'd be complaining regardless because both the first and third maps are weighted in favor of Team Sharena. I honestly don't know if the second map favored any team significantly because I didn't really pay attention to it, and it didn't seem like it had any easy-to-defend chokes.

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Thinking of something else here, it would be interesting if the game would let you fight as often as you wanted, on the condition you use use different units, not unlike Squad Assault, etc. I haven't thought too hard about how that would work exactly, but I did like the idea of incentivizing the use of an even wider pool of units.

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15 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

19 nodes and 12 nodes, both on Team Sharena.

I'd be complaining regardless because both the first and third maps are weighted in favor of Team Sharena. I honestly don't know if the second map favored any team significantly because I didn't really pay attention to it, and it didn't seem like it had any easy-to-defend chokes.

Alphonse had the advantage on the second map, although it wasn't quite as good as Sharena's were.

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1 minute ago, Hawk King said:

Alphonse had the advantage on the second map, although it wasn't quite as good as Sharena's were.

Huh. Looking at the map again, I actually think Anna and Alphonse had it relatively even with each other with Sharena at a disadvantage, though I could be wrong. (How my team scored more than 10 is a mystery to me because I was asleep for the last few rounds.)

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