Tempest Trials: Thunder’s Fist!

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Zeo said:

Oh great... "Magic is Everything!" is the TT boss. That's all we need right? A juiced enemy Reinhardt with TT stat boosts. I swear if he has Death Blow 3 and Lancebreaker 3... I'm going to kill something.

I actually prefer Chill Res on his B slot instead; Reinhardt with [Dire Thunder, Luna, Death Blow, Chill Res, Death Blow] would be fun face, especially with Luna charged.

1 hour ago, Zeo said:

And fully charged Miracle.

And all the other enemies have Wings of Mercy on their B slot.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm personally hoping for Guard or Dull Ranged. I don't really care what else we get as long as we don't get Escape Route, Wings of Mercy, or Vantage.

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

no to wings of mercy and escape route Seal. it opens pandoras box of really really shitty Defense Teams to deal with (and I am not talking about WoM Dancers) in Arena.

They are not that bad. It makes it easier to kill them in one round of combat since they are not running things like Close Def or Distant Def.

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, XRay said:

They are not that bad. It makes it easier to kill them in one round of combat since they are not running things like Close Def or Distant Def.

Armors standing on fortification tiles are not easy to kill by any stretch of the imagination regardless of their Sacred Seal, especially at the top of the regular Arena where you cannot build your characters entirely for performance.

 

Wings of Mercy and Escape Route make it difficult to separate opponents by color, and is actually worse when the opponent does not run Armor March because it becomes impossible to leave a 1-square space between your units and an opponent's weakened unit to bait it to death. In particular, the main reason I don't see Wings of Mercy often is because Bold Fighter exists. Being able to combine Wings of Mercy with Bold Fighter would pretty much make the combination a staple on at least one unit in every armor team.

Wrath and Vantage should never be made into Sacred Seals until a proper countermeasure is provided for Wrath, and this is entirely the fault of Berserk Armads. Two stacks of Wrath and Vantage on Hector results in a fully charged Bonfire at the beginning of every turn (after Hector takes damage) with Hector guaranteed to attack first in combat except against units with Sweep skills or Hardy Bearing.

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Armors standing on fortification tiles are not easy to kill by any stretch of the imagination regardless of their Sacred Seal, especially at the top of the regular Arena where you cannot build your characters entirely for performance.

 

Wings of Mercy and Escape Route make it difficult to separate opponents by color, and is actually worse when the opponent does not run Armor March because it becomes impossible to leave a 1-square space between your units and an opponent's weakened unit to bait it to death. In particular, the main reason I don't see Wings of Mercy often is because Bold Fighter exists. Being able to combine Wings of Mercy with Bold Fighter would pretty much make the combination a staple on at least one unit in every armor team.

Wrath and Vantage should never be made into Sacred Seals until a proper countermeasure is provided for Wrath, and this is entirely the fault of Berserk Armads. Two stacks of Wrath and Vantage on Hector results in a fully charged Bonfire at the beginning of every turn (after Hector takes damage) with Hector guaranteed to attack first in combat except against units with Sweep skills or Hardy Bearing.

What about TOD!Jakob with Firesweep Bow-Bold Fighter? That should take care of Hector. As for the fort tiles, giving TOD!Jakob Armor Boots should help him run around slow armor units and lure them off of forts.

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, XRay said:

What about TOD!Jakob with Firesweep Bow-Bold Fighter? That should take care of Hector.

That requires

1. Having Jakob.
2. Having Firesweep Bow.
3. Having Bold Fighter.
4. Putting all of those skills on Jakob.
5. Actually using Jakob.
6. Getting fucked when there are 6 more rounds of Arena Assault left and you aren't allowed to use Jakob again.

And pretty much all of the above are not possible for the majority of players.

 

2 hours ago, XRay said:

As for the fort tiles, giving TOD!Jakob Armor Boots should help him run around slow armor units and lure them off of forts.

Neat fact: It is physically impossible to engage in combat with a ranged armor unit on the oasis map with the opponent not standing on a fortification tile unless you are standing on one of the four corner tiles of the map.

Another neat fact: Due to the fact that the AI prioritizes standing on fortification tiles, it's much harder to initiate combat against enemy armors standing off of fortification tiles than it is to lure an enemy armor to engage in combat off of a fortification tile.

One more neat fact: Most people don't have Jakob.

[Vaximillian]

The dataminers have likely figured out the bonus units and the seal rewards.

Bonus heroes: both Reinhardts, both Olwens, Leif, Nanna, Finn, Seliph.

Seals: Seal Spd, Fortress Def, Drive Atk.

[Tybrosion]

10 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Bonus heroes: both Reinhardts, both Olwens, Leif, Nanna, Finn, Seliph.

Well if that's true, I finally have some use for my Seliph and Olwen then. Seliph at least already has something resembling a kit ready while Olwen...does not.

Spoiler

 

[redlight]

16 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

The dataminers have likely figured out the bonus units and the seal rewards.

Bonus heroes: both Reinhardts, both Olwens, Leif, Nanna, Finn, Seliph.

Seals: Seal Spd, Fortress Def, Drive Atk.

We have Close Def so I'm curious as to why we need Fortress Def. At least Fortress Res can be used in conjction with ploys. Why seal seals? Drive Atk is useful I guess

[Rafiel's Aria]

Seliph finally gets to be a TT bonus unit. I may actually promote my Seliph for this since I've been thinking about it for a while. Normal Olwen and Rein will both see some use as well since they've been pretty great during the other TTs. Since the HM cap has increased right after I was happy with the number of units capped I'm free to use whoever I want! Time to rack up the feathers!

[Vaximillian]

2 minutes ago, Rafiel's Aria said:

Since the HM cap has increased right after I was happy with the number of units capped

RIP my full page of capped units ;_;7

[r_n]

10 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

The dataminers have likely figured out the bonus units and the seal rewards.

Bonus heroes: both Reinhardts, both Olwens, Leif, Nanna, Finn, Seliph.

Seals: Seal Spd, Fortress Def, Drive Atk.

Finally Seliph. I promoted and got a Seliph already to go waaaaaay back at the Julia tempest because I was certain he'd be a bonus unit. But no! 

[Zeo]

@Vaximillian Being limited to Reinhardt, *4 Seliph and Finn is pretty boring, but at least I don't have to pull on the New Banners in order to not be screwed over for the Tempest.

In other news, Drive Skills are a one off price of 100 Coins, which means I can safely spend 150 of my 200 coins and still be set to upgrade it right away. Hoo-rah.

[Vaximillian]

1 minute ago, r_n said:

Finally Seliph. I promoted and got a Seliph already to go waaaaaay back at the Julia tempest because I was certain he'd be a bonus unit. But no! 

I already had a +1 Seliph by that moment, heh. Poor guy finally caught a break he rightfully deserved.

[r_n]

14 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

We have Close Def so I'm curious as to why we need Fortress Def. At least Fortress Res can be used in conjction with ploys. Why seal seals? Drive Atk is useful I guess

I think the intent is to slowly offer seal versions of most skills, regardless of how useful they are. 

It also means you have different options on a team if you either dont have all the seals or need some filler. More options is always good and I would probably use sealing seals if I remembered to shuffle my seals aroung more. Same with threatens.

 

Also Fortress Defense is always active, Close Defense is only active on melee enemy phase hits. So it does have a different use case.

[mcsilas]

Double Fortress Def Azama here we go!

Drive Atk is really neat though. So I gave Fjorm is now more of Atk Def Bond fodder now instead of Drive Atk. I wonder if we get Bond skills as SS in the future.

[redlight]

2 minutes ago, r_n said:

I think the intent is to slowly offer seal versions of most skills, regardless of how useful they are. 

It also means you have different options on a team if you either dont have all the seals or need some filler. More options is always good and I would probably use sealing seals if I remembered to shuffle my seals aroung more. Same with threatens.

 

Also Fortress Defense is always active, Close Defense is only active on melee enemy phase hits. So it does have a different use case.

But it sacrifices attack, so that means you have a weaker player phase. Fortress def has always been a budget skill. Though I guess we can't have every seal be amazing, otherwise they'd run out of decent seals to give us

[XRay]

52 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Getting fucked when there are 6 more rounds of Arena Assault left and you aren't allowed to use Jakob again.

If it is for Arena Assault that should make things even easier right? You get to preview the enemy team and bring Triangle Adept units with Breakers. If those are not enough, Pain [Dazzling Staff]-Savage Blow will chip away the bunched up armor units, a Firesweep user to deal the finishing blow to bypass Vantage, and finally a Dancer/Singer to Assist everyone around.

I assume players who face armor teams for all seven rounds of Arena Assault should not have a problem spending 80,000 to 100,000 Feathers on 4 or 5 Pain+ staves. I cannot imagine a minnow or dolphin being able to get consistent armor teams for all seven battles.

29 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

We have Close Def so I'm curious as to why we need Fortress Def. At least Fortress Res can be used in conjction with ploys. Why seal seals? Drive Atk is useful I guess

Fortress Def and Fortress Res are useful on staff healers to reduce their Atk even further, so they can do less lethal chip damage to speed up training your units in the Training Tower and Special Training Maps. It is more of a quality of life skill in my opinion similar to Valor and Exp skills.

I am not really sure about Seal Spd on a practical level. I guess if you want to replicate Triangle Attack in Heroes with the White Wings, Seal Def-Seal Spd is a useful combo on the first White Wing who engages the target so that the other two White Wings can finish the target off following up. Actually, if you got more than one Firesweep archer, Seal Spd is like the next best thing after Poison Strike, Def Ploy, and Speed +3s.

Edited April 11, 2018 by XRay

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, silveraura25 said:

But it sacrifices attack, so that means you have a weaker player phase. Fortress def has always been a budget skill. Though I guess we can't have every seal be amazing, otherwise they'd run out of decent seals to give us

Azama doesn't need his Atk stat.

[Vaximillian]

1 minute ago, mcsilas said:

Drive Atk is really neat though. So I gave Fjorm is now more of Atk Def Bond fodder now instead of Drive Atk. I wonder if we get Bond skills as SS in the future.

Now I’m conflicted about which drive to keep on my Marth. Right now he’s running Drive Spd as C and Drive Def as S for 2/5/5/2 overall.

+5 Atk instead of +2 sure is sexy, but +5 Def instead of +2 helps Myrrh to not get doubled. Choice is hard.

[Zeo]

@mcsilas I may actually just merge my Fjorm at this point. I don't care about ATK/DEF Bond and Drive ATK was my primary reason for keeping her as potential fodder.

[Ice Dragon]

4 minutes ago, XRay said:

If it is for Arena Assault that should make things even easier right? You get to preview the enemy team and bring Triangle Adept units with Breakers. If those are not enough, Pain [Dazzling Staff]-Savage Blow will chip away the bunched up armor units, a Firesweep user to deal the finishing blow to bypass Vantage, and finally a Dancer/Singer to Assist everyone around.

The point is not that it can't be dealt with. Everything in this game can be dealt with. The point is that it's an absurd chore to deal with, requiring specific builds or team compositions.

And that's exactly what a properly balanced strategy game should not have.

 

[Rafiel's Aria]

27 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

RIP my full page of capped units ;_;7

Same. It was a good run. But more feathers though. At least that's something. 

[King Marth 64]

23 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

Which one of these was shown in the stream? I can’t be bothered to rewatch the thing.

I just rechecked the Feh channel. It's the right one that is Saias's Grand Hero Battle map while the left one is the Tempest Trial map.

 

[redlight]

35 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Azama doesn't need his Atk stat.

One unit doesn't justify a new seal. Though I won't rant anymore

37 minutes ago, XRay said:

Fortress Def and Fortress Res are useful on staff healers to reduce their Atk even further, so they can do less lethal chip damage to speed up training your units in the Training Tower and Special Training Maps. It is more of a quality of life skill in my opinion similar to Valor and Exp skills.

Maybe for healers with already low attack, but they'd be running something else in their seal slot like savage blow, unless you're running a whole team of healers. I just use one healers and two dancers for training'

Which reminds me, valor skills have kinda fallen behind the times. We've got blessings and double SP weekends

Edited April 11, 2018 by silveraura25

[r_n]

1 minute ago, silveraura25 said:

One unit doesn't justify a new seal. Though I won't rant anymore

Maybe for healers with already low attack, but they'd be running something else in their seal slot like savage blow, unless you're running a whole team of healers. I just use one healers and two dancers for training'

Which reminds me, valor skills have kinda fallen behind the times. We've got blessings and double SP weekends

Valors aren't as hotly needed, but being able to get double sp outside of weekends and blessings is great

but nothing is as good as double sp weekends with a blessing and a valor. +24 sp per kill!

[Roflolxp54]

Got 195 coins here and I've already fully upgraded most 240 SP cost skills (only ones I have yet to upgrade are Res Ploy and Poison Strike). And TT is yet another 80 coins and not counting incoming Arena coins. Looks like I can upgrade 2 seals during this TT. Now, which one besides Drive Atk...?