How do you kill an Earth/Divine Dragon?

[Jotari]

9 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

The timeline reveals now that the Divine Dragons that died were of the royal family. So this would open that there are other Divine Dragons that survived now. 

Recall that Gotoh and Xane are Divine Dragon survivors. So it's never like the games were pretending the Divine Dragons were wiped out completely. It's just that none of the ones that did survive were considered important enough to mention (hey, I wonder if any of them agreed with Medeus. Would be kind of cool if you fought a random divine dragon in one of the last maps).

[omegaxis1]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Recall that Gotoh and Xane are Divine Dragon survivors. So it's never like the games were pretending the Divine Dragons were wiped out completely. It's just that none of the ones that did survive were considered important enough to mention (hey, I wonder if any of them agreed with Medeus. Would be kind of cool if you fought a random divine dragon in one of the last maps).

Oh no. I mean that back then, the only known survivors were Naga, Tiki, Gotoh, and Xane. This made it very questionable on who Nowi's parents are, as it's heavily implied that she's from the Divine Dragon Tribe. 

Now with it saying that it was only the royalty among the Divine Dragons that died, that leaves room for the possibility of there being more.

I would also argue that they are slowly working to make the green hair to be the color of royalty among the Divine Dragons. Naga, Tiki, Duma, and Mila all have green hair.

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Oh no. I mean that back then, the only known survivors were Naga, Tiki, Gotoh, and Xane. This made it very questionable on who Nowi's parents are, as it's heavily implied that she's from the Divine Dragon Tribe. 

Now with it saying that it was only the royalty among the Divine Dragons that died, that leaves room for the possibility of there being more.

I would also argue that they are slowly working to make the green hair to be the color of royalty among the Divine Dragons. Naga, Tiki, Duma, and Mila all have green hair.

Where does it say they're the only survivors?

Also clearly Nowi's parents are Gotoh and Xane

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Also clearly Nowi's parents are Gotoh and Xane

Well it all depends how deep Xane's shapeshifting goes.

 

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Where does it say they're the only survivors?

Also clearly Nowi's parents are Gotoh and Xane

FE3 Book 2, Chapter 13:

Quote

Chainy:
Ah…
When the Divine Dragons fought the Earth Dragons they over-exhausted their dragonstones, and so practically became extinct.
Aside from Narga, only Gato, me and the just born Chiki survived.

 

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

FE3 Book 2, Chapter 13:

 

Ah yeah, that's pretty direct (I was actually just in the process of reading Xane's expo dump). Still, it's weird, because he also says;

After that, Narga left behind a will to his own people, which was to protect
mankind.

To his own people seems like an odd turn of phrase considering his own people was just two guys and his infant daughter.

Still, regardless what Xane said and what was reiterated in New Mystery, we can take it as retcon that there were no more Diving Dragons other than the three we see, given Nowi exists and Mila and Duma were retconned to be Divine Dragons.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Jotari

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Ah yeah, that's pretty direct (I was actually just in the process of reading Xane's expo dump). Still, it's weird, because he also says;

After that, Narga left behind a will to his own people, which was to protect
mankind.

To his own people seems like an odd turn of phrase considering his own people was just two guys and his infant daughter.

Could have been intended for all surviving manaketes. Doesn't necessarily need to be Divine Dragons. 

Also, Naga's a woman now. XP

[Jotari]

10 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Could have been intended for all surviving manaketes. Doesn't necessarily need to be Divine Dragons. 

Also, Naga's a woman now. XP

Ugh, I know. I preferred it back when she was implied to be a genderbender. So much more interesting than the stereotypical benign to all goddess that we have now.

[Emperor Hardin]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Recall that Gotoh and Xane are Divine Dragon survivors. So it's never like the games were pretending the Divine Dragons were wiped out completely. It's just that none of the ones that did survive were considered important enough to mention (hey, I wonder if any of them agreed with Medeus. Would be kind of cool if you fought a random divine dragon in one of the last maps).

Gotoh and Xane certainly act like Tiki is rare for being able to access the powers of her original form.

I guess the popularity of the Divine Dragon race/Tiki, has caused IS to retcon the history?

Edited April 12, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Gotoh and Xane certainly act like Tiki is rare for being able to access the powers of her original form.

Wouldn't Tiki being the last born dragon since the decline be in itself rare? 

[Emperor Hardin]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Wouldn't Tiki being the last born dragon since the decline be in itself rare? 

They act like Tiki is unique for being a Divine Dragon who still has their dragon stone.

 

Also looking at the new timeline, it says the Divine Dragon's royal lineage is wiped out. Its possible this isn't a retcon, but they're just calling Divine Dragons as a whole, "royal lineage", given their royalty caste status in the Dragon's united empire.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

They act like Tiki is unique for being a Divine Dragon who still has their dragon stone.

 

Also looking at the new timeline, it says the Divine Dragon's royal lineage is wiped out. Its possible this isn't a retcon, but they're just calling Divine Dragons as a whole, "royal lineage", given their royalty caste status in the Dragon's united empire.

That's possible. However, given that Medeus is called the Earth Dragon Prince, I would argue that every tribe has their own hierarchy. 

Also, I've noticed that lately, Divine Dragons have lately gotten a trait of their human forms having green hair. Naga, Tiki, Duma, and now Mila. The only Divine Dragons with differently colored hair are Gotoh and Xane. 

Perhaps this is to indicate that the royal lineage of Divine Dragons have green hair?

[thecrimsonflash]

On 4/11/2018 at 6:33 PM, Shoblongoo said:

So here's my take on it--in Fire Emblem you a physical existence (i.e. your body) and a spiritual existence (i.e. your soul). When your physical existence ends, (i.e. you undergo mortal death), the soul is released from the body.

This applies to humans and dragons.

However, how long your disembodied soul sticks around before it dissipates into the ether and how much autonomy it has to continue performing willful actions varies depending on factors like race, individual willpower, and level of mastery over soul-manipulating magics.

In the case of an ordinary human or demihuman or w/e, the soul has no autonomy after it leaves the body and dissipates very quickly. This presumably is how he bifrost staff works and why it can only be used immediately after the human is slain in battle--bifrost must be used before the disembodied soul dissipates to perform a successful Resurrection of the physical form.

For a sufficiently POWERFUL human or demihuman--the soul can stick around for a much longer time and even perform autonomous acts like inhabiting a favored relic, and having conversations with living beings. There is also a much longer period of time in which the soul can be resurrected into a new physical form. 

This presumably is why Ninian--an Oracle of great power among the ice dragons--can be resurrected at the end of FE7 days, weeks, or possibly even months after she is slain by Eliwood.

This is presumably why Durban and Roland--mythic humans of extraordinary power--still exist as ghosts and can still inhabit their weapons + talk to Eliwood and Hector 1,000 years after their mortal demise.

...then you get to the earth dragons and the divine dragons...

Now you're dealing with beings who are so old and so powerful and so well-versed in the art of soul manipulation. Their spirits can live on for thousands and thousands of years after the destruction of their physical forms (which would normally be an impossible feat to begin with but-for the use of Falchion or a Divine Weapon specifically designed to rend said forms). 

Moreover, their disembodied spirits can perform complex autonomous actions such as:  empowering mortal champions, directing them to pursue a specific course of conduct, and setting up elaborate schemes through which the spirit can regain a suitable physical form.

This may seem late, but how do you explain the aum staff and the resurrection fountains in gaiden and SoV they don't seem to care how long ago it was that you died.

I also assume the valkyrie staff also does this but I have yet to play genealogy.

[Slumber]

On 4/12/2018 at 5:09 PM, omegaxis1 said:

That's possible. However, given that Medeus is called the Earth Dragon Prince, I would argue that every tribe has their own hierarchy. 

Also, I've noticed that lately, Divine Dragons have lately gotten a trait of their human forms having green hair. Naga, Tiki, Duma, and now Mila. The only Divine Dragons with differently colored hair are Gotoh and Xane. 

Perhaps this is to indicate that the royal lineage of Divine Dragons have green hair?

Nah, green hair just means main character dragon. 

Just like how blue hair means main character human. 

For real, maybe it's just a common dragon thing. We don't really see many of the other tribes. Most of the non-Divine Dragon we see are old or just don't have hair. We see some Fire Tribe dragons like Bantu, but I don't recall is any of them have noticeably colored hair(Or just hair period. Bantu seems to have been hit with male-pattern baldness hard). Even Gotoh's an oldie, and Xane's a shapeshifter, so there's always the possibility that maybe the face we see isn't his real human form. All of them could actually have green hair. 

Though that'd leave out Nowi, who's the big outlier if this were true. 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Slumber

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said:

This may seem late, but how do you explain the aum staff and the resurrection fountains in gaiden and SoV they don't seem to care how long ago it was that you died.

I also assume the valkyrie staff also does this but I have yet to play genealogy.

They're probably just best not to think about. They raise quite a lot of plot holes (why did they simply revive the assassinated Kurth? Couldn't Marth use Aim to bring back one of his parents? He can revive any other characters that die in the prologue). Funny enough the Aum staff actually worked like Bifrost in the original game and could only be used on one map.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Jotari

[omegaxis1]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

They're probably just best not to think about. They raise quite a lot of plot holes (why did they simply revive the assassinated Kurth? Couldn't Marth use Aim to bring back one of his parents? He can revive any other characters that die in the prologue). Funny enough the Aum staff actually worked like Bifrost in the original game and could only be used on one map.

Probably caused Kurth was meant to die back then. According to Kaga, quintessence is the force of fate, and if people that are not destined to die dies, the Valkyrie Staff can revive them. Otherwise, it's impossible to revive them. 

Going by my theory of quintessence, the quintessence is the energy that binds the soul to the mortal realm, and if the quintessence runs out, the soul no longer exists in that world. Thus it's impossible to revive them. So as long as there is somehow quintessence still inside the person of around the world, the Aum Staff, Valkyrie Staff, and the revival springs can revive others by drawing their quintessence. 

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Probably caused Kurth was meant to die back then. According to Kaga, quintessence is the force of fate, and if people that are not destined to die dies, the Valkyrie Staff can revive them. Otherwise, it's impossible to revive them. 

Going by my theory of quintessence, the quintessence is the energy that binds the soul to the mortal realm, and if the quintessence runs out, the soul no longer exists in that world. Thus it's impossible to revive them. So as long as there is somehow quintessence still inside the person of around the world, the Aum Staff, Valkyrie Staff, and the revival springs can revive others by drawing their quintessence. 

So fate decides Kurth's death is declared by date but Arya receiving an unlucky critical in battle isnt (I don't think enemies can crit you in Genealogy, but that's beside the point). In other words, the plot dictates what should and shouldn't happen. So yeah, just best not to think of it.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

So fate decides Kurth's death is declared by date but Arya receiving an unlucky critical in battle isnt (I don't think enemies can crit you in Genealogy, but that's beside the point). In other words, the plot dictates what should and shouldn't happen. So yeah, just best not to think of it.

Yeah, pretty much. Personally, this is one thing I personally dislike about how Kaga explained quintessence. 

I much prefer my theory, as that can explain a LOT of things.

[NinjaMonkey]

On ‎12‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 11:09 PM, omegaxis1 said:

Also, I've noticed that lately, Divine Dragons have lately gotten a trait of their human forms having green hair. Naga, Tiki, Duma, and now Mila.

Does Nagi not canonically exist or something? Or is she just really forgettable?

14 hours ago, Slumber said:

Though that'd leave out Nowi, who's the big outlier if this were true. 

Nowi has yellowish-green hair though...

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Does Nagi not canonically exist or something? Or is she just really forgettable?

Nagi is Naga though.

[Slumber]

13 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Nowi has yellowish-green hair though...

More yellow than green, but I suppose it's still true. 

[Tetragrammaton]

On 4/15/2018 at 2:49 AM, Jotari said:

So fate decides Kurth's death is declared by date but Arya receiving an unlucky critical in battle isnt (I don't think enemies can crit you in Genealogy, but that's beside the point). In other words, the plot dictates what should and shouldn't happen. So yeah, just best not to think of it.

iirc if you let a unit died many chapters before you use the Valkyrie Staff, you can't revive that unit.

[Jotari]

8 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

iirc if you let a unit died many chapters before you use the Valkyrie Staff, you can't revive that unit.

I'm pretty sure you can. I remember reviving Midir at the very end of Chapter 5 when I'd let him die around Chapter 1 on my first playthrough. Could be a faulty memory, but I have no idea why I'd imagine something like that.