Best and worse skills in the games ?

[CyberController]

Both class and individual. Which ones are good, and which one are "Don't bother"

[SoulWeaver]

I'd go with Oni Savage's Class Tree in general as 'Don't bother' but that'd require me to remember them. I only remember Salvage Blow, which would have been more useful if weapons could break in Fates but is kind of garbage as-is.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Best:

Wary Fighter- Generals have always wanted this, shame it took so long.

Adept- The simplest proc skill, but a good one. This a personal favorite.

 

2 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

I'd go with Oni Savage's Class Tree in general as 'Don't bother' but that'd require me to remember them. I only remember Salvage Blow, which would have been more useful if weapons could break in Fates but is kind of garbage as-is.

Well Lancebreaker would be amazing on Ryoma, and Death Blow has a use on Kumagera, but otherwise it is bad.

I'd also say Spendthrift and Profiteer are bad, since you can't choose when to activate them and they rely on mostly luck-obtained gold bars.

[Aut]

Best Skills - Pursuit, Paragon, Thracia!Wrath, Sol, Veteran, Galeforce, +might skills (I.E. elbow room/Axefaire), Canto, POR!Resolve, Celerity are all great skills to have, and if we’re counting Echoes weapon skills then hunter’s volley, double lion, and tiger stance should easily make it on here as well

Worst Skills - Gamble, Wary Fighter, Tempest, Bane and Mercy are all actively bad skills to have, and if we’re counting skills that are extremely annoying on enemies then big-shield is a fairly annoying skill to deal with.

[Modamy]

29 minutes ago, Aut said:

Worst Skills - Gamble, Wary Fighter, Tempest, Bane and Mercy are all actively bad skills to have, and if we’re counting skills that are extremely annoying on enemies then big-shield is a fairly annoying skill to deal with.

Wary fighter is a great skill for slower units since it means they no longer have to deal with getting doubled. It totally doesn’t deserve to be ranked as one of the worst skills.

[ProfImpossible]

In fates, the best one I've found is the Nohrian blood one or whatever. (The second tier Nohr prince class gets it) 

What it does is makes it so you can proc the skills that your pair up partner has. With this, it is possible to get a character with Sol, Luna, Aegis, Pavise, Lethality, and any other proc skills, as well as Quixotic, and other skills that raise your proc rate. If you build your character right, you can get close to 90% proc rate on some stuff.

[Aut]

4 hours ago, Modamy said:

Wary fighter is a great skill for slower units since it means they no longer have to deal with getting doubled. It totally doesn’t deserve to be ranked as one of the worst skills.

Almost no unit is slow enough to make it worth using and the only unit that’s arguably worth using it on isn’t good. The only reason to have it is completely unsalvegable speed, and an extremely limited number of units have that quality, it’s bad on everyone else, so therefore it’s a bad skill.

[Shadow Mir]

5 hours ago, Aut said:

Worst Skills - Gamble, Wary Fighter, Tempest, Bane and Mercy are all actively bad skills to have, and if we’re counting skills that are extremely annoying on enemies then big-shield is a fairly annoying skill to deal with.

I agree with Modamy on Wary Fighter.

3 hours ago, ProfImpossible said:

In fates, the best one I've found is the Nohrian blood one or whatever. (The second tier Nohr prince class gets it) 

What it does is makes it so you can proc the skills that your pair up partner has. With this, it is possible to get a character with Sol, Luna, Aegis, Pavise, Lethality, and any other proc skills, as well as Quixotic, and other skills that raise your proc rate. If you build your character right, you can get close to 90% proc rate on some stuff.

If I may be honest, I would agree were it not for being a level 15 skill, thus ensuring its usability is limited... also, I would question the use of an actively bad skill (Quixotic).

Anyway...

The worst skills would be Gamble (PoR/RD), Quixotic, Life and Death, Counter (Awakening), Sol (Awakening/Fates), Lethality (All but RD), Sure Strike (I'm surprised no one bothered mentioning this), Charge, Astra (Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn), Seal Resistance, Salvage Blow, Profiteer, Spendthrift, Parity (PoR), Nihil (PoR), Tempest, Howl, Quickclaw, Shriek, Maelstrom, Prescience, Focus, Tantivy, Good Fortune, Wrath (Awakening), Zeal, Vengeance (Fates), Misfortunate, Sweet Tooth, Perfect Pitch, and Unmask. (Granted, those last few are personal skills, but still!)

The best skills are Inspiration, Grisly Wound, Locktouch, -faire skills, breakers, Renewal (Awakening/Fates), Live to Serve, Even Better/Better Odds, Galeforce (Awakening only), Paragon, Luna, and Wrath (Thracia),

[Modamy]

1 hour ago, Aut said:

Almost no unit is slow enough to make it worth using and the only unit that’s arguably worth using it on isn’t good. The only reason to have it is completely unsalvegable speed, and an extremely limited number of units have that quality, it’s bad on everyone else, so therefore it’s a bad skill.

Wary fighter is a skill made so units can tank better because they are at risk of taking less hits. How is it not useful on any unit that you are using as a tank?

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Aut said:

Almost no unit is slow enough to make it worth using and the only unit that’s arguably worth using it on isn’t good. The only reason to have it is completely unsalvegable speed, and an extremely limited number of units have that quality, it’s bad on everyone else, so therefore it’s a bad skill.

Being useful on some units is better than never being useful (e.g. Sure Strike) or being a two-edged sword where you get the short end of the deal (Quixotic, Life and Death).

[ProfImpossible]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

 

If I may be honest, I would agree were it not for being a level 15 skill, thus ensuring its usability is limited... also, I would question the use of an actively bad skill (Quixotic).

??? What do you mean by level 15? If I may display my ignorance.

It's definitely not a whole game bread and butter skill, but you can always buy your characters from previous files (or grind all the way there if that's how you want to do things and you kicked down for dlc) 

It gives like a plus 30% proc rate for all of your skills right(I may be thinking of something different)? On it's own it's not great, no. But if you pair it with the other skills that boost your proc rate you can proc something (close to) every battle.

I apologize if my info isn't exact. It's been awhile since I played fates.

[Shadow Mir]

7 minutes ago, ProfImpossible said:

??? What do you mean by level 15? If I may display my ignorance.

It's definitely not a whole game bread and butter skill, but you can always buy your characters from previous files (or grind all the way there if that's how you want to do things and you kicked down for dlc) 

It gives like a plus 30% proc rate for all of your skills right(I may be thinking of something different)? On it's own it's not great, no. But if you pair it with the other skills that boost your proc rate you can proc something (close to) every battle.

I apologize if my info isn't exact. It's been awhile since I played fates.

Exactly what I mean - Nohrian Trust doesn't come until level 15 promoted. Needless to say, that won't happen until the game is nearly over.

Sure, I could buy it, but its usability would be virtually nonexistent early on...

No. Quixotic gives +30 to hit and +15 to skill activation chances... Except it also does this for the enemy. Guess who benefits more from Quixotic...? Here's a hint: it ain't you. Also, the only other skill that boosts proc rate is Hoshidan Unity, which is also a level 15 skill with limited distribution.

[ProfImpossible]

5 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Exactly what I mean - Nohrian Trust doesn't come until level 15 promoted. Needless to say, that won't happen until the game is nearly over.

Sure, I could buy it, but its usability would be virtually nonexistent early on...

No. Quixotic gives +30 to hit and +15 to skill activation chances... Except it also does this for the enemy. Guess who benefits more from Quixotic...? Here's a hint: it ain't you. Also, the only other skill that boosts proc rate is Hoshidan Unity, which is also a level 15 skill with limited distribution.

Oh, duh.  -.-'

Yeah, you got a point. You could buy your support unit too but at that point it still is a lot of dealing for relatively minimal payoff I guess.

I stand corrected, so I guess the max proc rate(let's say for sol) you can get is like...65 or 70% then. My bad.

[Slumber]

Mercy and Counter(Awakening) are two of the worst that come to mind. I know there are worse on paper, but these two have plagued me the most. 

Mercy, purely because every time I play RD, I forget to take it off Elincia, and she spends all of her army's chapter in the back because she can't kill anything and I forgot to save my army prep so I don't want to reload to take it off. Conceptually, it'd be amazing on like, a Jeigan-type character, but in practice it just... Yeah, it's so silly to put it on a unit so late in the game, and on a unit that can't even really be used that practically to actually soften up enemies for someone else. 

Counter because it's a skill that only exists to make enemies more problematic. It's dogshit on your units because it relies on YOU taking damage. If you're taking enough damage that Counter is working as intended, you're in deep shit and you probably don't want to be making more openings for enemies to poke at. On the flipside, this is a perfect skill for enemies that exist only to become bodies in your way, and it's never in a spot that makes you go "Man, I should have strategized better". It's always somewhere just dumb enough to make it annoying. 

[DragonFlames]

For worst skills, as in the ones that don't actually benefit the player at all, I'd say: Life and Death, Vantage (Awakening, Fates), Sol (Awakening, Fates), Quixotic, Underdog, Salvage Blow, every Seal skill, Counter, Countermagic, Miracle, Dragon Ward, Poison Strike, Grisly Wound, Any (stat)+2 skill, Gamble, Wrath (PoR, RD, Awakening), Vengeance

If you want a more in-depth explanation:
Life and Death - +10 damage dealt AND TAKEN. There you go. That's all the reason you need NOT to use this.
Vantage (Awakening, Fates) and Wrath (PoR, RD, Awakening) - Needing to be at half HP for something to work is terrible, period.
Sol (Awakening, Fates) - Regaining HP is good on paper... until you remember that you only have a Skill% chance of proccing it and it doesn't even do any bonus damage, like it's Radiant Dawn incarnation.
Quixotic - Giving your enemies +30 hit and +15% activation rate to any proc skill they might have. You may as well have "KILL ME" in glowing letters and all caps plastered to your forehead.
Underdog - For fighting enemies 10 levels higher than you... When exactly will that ever happen?
Salvage Blow - A Luck% chance to get bog standard Iron weapons... by the time I'm already using much better equipment in a game with no durability system. Waste of a skill slot right here.
every Seal skill - Why would you weaken an enemies stat when you could (and probably will) just kill them instead? They're only useful when the enemy has them, in which case they turn every map they're present in into a stressful, annoying agony.
Counter and Countermagic - The more damage you take, the more damage you'll reflect back on your enemies... Good for trolling people in My Castle battles, but not much else, because, again, more useful in AI hands than player hands.
Miracle - If you get so low that enemies can kill you, you're doing something wrong. Relying on Luck to save you is also not something you might want to do.
Dragon Ward - Halving damage is okay, but you can do better than this skill. Compared to Draconic Hex, this is a waste of a skill slot.
Poison Strike and Grisly Wound - In the case of the latter, when would Keaton, Kaden, Selkie or Velouria ever fail to do damage insignificant enough for this skill to make any tangible difference? In the case of the former, you want to kill your enemies, so why waste time chipping them down with useless crap like this? For both: Why aren't you just killing stuff instead?
any (Stat)+2 skill - They don't make much of a difference in the beginning and fall off towards the end.
Gamble - Reducing your own hit rate to increase your crit rate... when you need to hit before you can crit. *slow clap*
Vengeance - Another case of "far more useful in AI hands than player hands". Gee, it's almost like I have PTSD about that sort of stuff... Anyway, Vengeance is a double edged sword and like with Life and Death, the risk is not worth the reward. Needing to be at low HP for something to work is terrible. End of story.

Edited April 13, 2018 by DragonFlames

[Armagon]

12 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

For worst skills, as in the ones that don't actually benefit the player at all, I'd say: Life and Death, Vantage (Awakening, Fates), Sol (Awakening, Fates), Quixotic, Underdog, Salvage Blow, every Seal skill, Counter, Countermagic, Miracle, Dragon Ward, Poison Strike, Grisly Wound, Any (stat)+2 skill, Gamble, Wrath (PoR, RD, Awakening), Vengeance

If you want a more in-depth explanation:
Life and Death - +10 damage dealt AND TAKEN. There you go. That's all the reason you need NOT to use this.
Vantage (Awakening, Fates) and Wrath (PoR, RD, Awakening) - Needing to be at half HP for something to work is terrible, period.
Sol (Awakening, Fates) - Regaining HP is good on paper... until you remember that you only have a Skill% chance of proccing it and it doesn't even do any bonus damage, like it's Radiant Dawn incarnation.
Quixotic - Giving your enemies +30 hit and +15% activation rate to any proc skill they might have. You may as well have "KILL ME" in glowing letters and all caps plastered to your forehead.
Underdog - For fighting enemies 10 levels higher than you... When exactly will that ever happen?
Salvage Blow - A Luck% chance to get bog standard Iron weapons... by the time I'm already using much better equipment in a game with no durability system. Waste of a skill slot right here.
every Seal skill - Why would you weaken an enemies stat when you could (and probably will) just kill them instead? They're only useful when the enemy has them, in which case they turn every map they're present in into a stressful, annoying agony.
Counter and Countermagic - The more damage you take, the more damage you'll reflect back on your enemies... Good for trolling people in My Castle battles, but not much else, because, again, more useful in AI hands than player hands.
Miracle - If you get so low that enemies can kill you, you're doing something wrong. Relying on Luck to save you is also not something you might want to do.
Dragon Ward - Halving damage is okay, but you can do better than this skill. Compared to Draconic Hex, this is a waste of a skill slot.
Poison Strike and Grisly Wound - In the case of the latter, when would Keaton, Kaden, Selkie or Velouria ever fail to do damage insignificant enough for this skill to make any tangible difference? In the case of the former, you want to kill your enemies, so why waste time chipping them down with useless crap like this? For both: Why aren't you just killing stuff instead?
any (Stat)+2 skill - They don't make much of a difference in the beginning and fall off towards the end.
Gamble - Reducing your own hit rate to increase your crit rate... when you need to hit before you can crit. *slow clap*
Vengeance - Another case of "far more useful in AI hands than player hands". Gee, it's almost like I have PTSD about that sort of stuff... Anyway, Vengeance is a double edged sword and like with Life and Death, the risk is not worth the reward. Needing to be at low HP for something to work is terrible. End of story.

Seems you don't like risk vs reward skills. Which is understandable. Fie Emblem's handled it's risk vs reward skills pretty poorly. But Vantage+Vengeance is a sweet combo.

 

Anyway, best skills

• All of the Arts in Echoes. The fact that they aren't RNG based is a good thing.
• Aether: Speaks for itself
• Slayer: Only in Sacred Stones but it's a God-tier skill against monsters, which take up a decent chunk of the game.
• Astra: Five hits with a crit chance on each one. Deadly in the hands of Swordmasters, Assassins,or other high-skill units.
• Nohrain Trust: You get to use the skills of your partner.
• Dragon Fang: 50% damage increase
• Renewal: Free HP every 3 turns
• Aggressor: +10 damage when initiating
• Luna: Reducing enemy defenses is great
• Wary Fighter: Great on Generals
• Galeforce: Awakening's meta revolved around this

Worst skills

• Miracle: Too luck based
• Brynhildr: Yeah, it's actually a Tome but it comes with Aegis built in, but somehow never activates
• Gamble: Why?
• Sure Hit: So Snipers in FE8 have fantastic hit-rates, they don't need a guaranteed hit.

Can't really think of anything else. Shows how little i actually pay attention to skills in the series.

[Shadow Mir]

51 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Seems you don't like risk vs reward skills. Which is understandable. Fie Emblem's handled it's risk vs reward skills pretty poorly. But Vantage+Vengeance is a sweet combo.

I would agree... If you were talking about Awakening specifically, that is. Vantage/Vengeance got gutted in Fates.

[Armagon]

33 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I would agree... If you were talking about Awakening specifically, that is. Vantage/Vengeance got gutted in Fates.

I actually never tried Vantage=Vengeance in Fates but yeah, it's fantastic in Awakening only.

[DragonFlames]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Seems you don't like risk vs reward skills. Which is understandable. Fie Emblem's handled it's risk vs reward skills pretty poorly.

When it comes to playing seriously, then yes. I do sometimes employ some risk vs. reward skills for fun, though.
Only recently, I used Hisame with Vantage, Vengeance, Miracle, Counter, Countermagic and a Revenge Katana. It wasn't exactly efficient (just getting the skills on him is a pain in the butt), but it's satisfying if the combo goes off as intended: Get hit, Counter, survive with Miracle, proc Vengeance and have double might from the Revenge Katana because the enemy attacked you. The damage is nothing to sneeze at, I assure you. I'd never use this in any serious gameplay setting, though. Just in My Castle battles and some Easy Mode grind runs.   

[Aut]

12 hours ago, Modamy said:

Wary fighter is a skill made so units can tank better because they are at risk of taking less hits. How is it not useful on any unit that you are using as a tank?

Because most tanks don’t get doubled. I’m not getting helped if a unit that wasn’t getting doubled still isn’t getting doubled. The only tank that’s often in danger of getting doubled* is Benny, and Benny is really bad because his offense is perpetually mediocre. Outside of enemies like Swordmasters and Master ninjas tanks aren’t in danger of being doubled, and it’s quite feasable to put them in range of doubling them especially once you reach the later part of midgame, where you can grab rally speed on a unit and get most of your units into doubling range. It’s also around the same time you get wary fighter as well, so it’s not like there’s a long period of time where you have wary fighter but can’t have rally speed. It’s an active detriment on almost all tanky units, because it kills their offense, and if they would’ve ORKO’d they take around twice the amount of hits they would’ve otherwise.

* Other slower units can theoretically be in danger of being doubled, but usually a good pairup will pull them out of that range, and with a proper distribution of resources it’s fairly easy to reverse the situation on the enemy. 

[Shadow Mir]

29 minutes ago, Aut said:

Because most tanks don’t get doubled. I’m not getting helped if a unit that wasn’t getting doubled still isn’t getting doubled. The only tank that’s often in danger of getting doubled* is Benny, and Benny is really bad because his offense is perpetually mediocre. Outside of enemies like Swordmasters and Master ninjas tanks aren’t in danger of being doubled, and it’s quite feasable to put them in range of doubling them especially once you reach the later part of midgame, where you can grab rally speed on a unit and get most of your units into doubling range. It’s also around the same time you get wary fighter as well, so it’s not like there’s a long period of time where you have wary fighter but can’t have rally speed. It’s an active detriment on almost all tanky units, because it kills their offense, and if they would’ve ORKO’d they take around twice the amount of hits they would’ve otherwise.

* Other slower units can theoretically be in danger of being doubled, but usually a good pairup will pull them out of that range, and with a proper distribution of resources it’s fairly easy to reverse the situation on the enemy. 

It also allows the use of weapons like hand axes without being doubled by anything that at least matches your speed. Also, Rally Speed is on a Hoshidan class, meaning in the context of Conquest, you likely won't have it without seal shenanigans (seals are limited for most of the game), skill buying, resorting to capture, or marrying Azura off.

[Aut]

Just now, Levant Mir Celestia said:

It also allows the use of weapons like hand axes without being doubled by anything that at least matches your speed. Also, Rally Speed is on a Hoshidan class, meaning in the context of Conquest, you likely won't have it without seal shenanigans (seals are limited for most of the game), skill buying, resorting to capture, or marrying Azura off.

Yeah just do that lol. Last time I played Conquest I just captured a pegasus knight in Ch.11, immediately promoted her, then spammed staves until she reached level 5 (I think I have her some kills as well so that she had more XP), in Ch. 17. It was easily worth it since she allowed some slower units like Xander and Leo to double enemies and ORKO. Also seals aren’t that limited, especially once you past Ch. 13, If you wanted to you could definitely use Selena (or whomever she’s married to/has an A+ rank with) to grab it, and it’s an incredibly powerful skill, so I’d certaintly say it’s a worthwhile investment. It’ll almost certaintly prevents enemies from doubling you even if you have a ranged weapon equipped, so I’d say it’s a good investment. 

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Aut said:

Yeah just do that lol. Last time I played Conquest I just captured a pegasus knight in Ch.11, immediately promoted her, then spammed staves until she reached level 5 (I think I have her some kills as well so that she had more XP), in Ch. 17. It was easily worth it since she allowed some slower units like Xander and Leo to double enemies and ORKO. Also seals aren’t that limited, especially once you past Ch. 13, If you wanted to you could definitely use Selena (or whomever she’s married to/has an A+ rank with) to grab it, and it’s an incredibly powerful skill, so I’d certaintly say it’s a worthwhile investment. It’ll almost certaintly prevents enemies from doubling you even if you have a ranged weapon equipped, so I’d say it’s a good investment. 

Except that requires me thinking capture is enough reason to not shelve Niles once he outlives his usefulness... which it is not. What's more, I generally don't think captured mooks are worth giving up a unit slot for compared to characters. Regarding Selena, she already tends to have offense issues - I doubt it's worth making that even worse just to eventually get a 1 turn speed buff. Also, she can only give Sky Knight to Laslow, who has his own problems, through marriage - anyone else would get the Mercenary line. And there's the matter where I don't really find most rally skills very worthwhile - more often than not, I'm better off trying to kill something than using a buff that goes away after one turn.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Aut]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Except that requires me thinking capture is enough reason to not shelve Niles once he outlives his usefulness... which it is not. What's more, I generally don't think captured mooks are worth giving up a unit slot for compared to characters. Regarding Selena, she already tends to have offense issues - I doubt it's worth making that even worse just to eventually get a 1 turn speed buff. Also, she can only give Sky Knight to Laslow, who has his own problems, through marriage - anyone else would get the Mercenary line. And there's the matter where I don't really find most rally skills very worthwhile - more often than not, I'm better off trying to kill something than using a buff that goes away after one turn.

My bad on the marriage thing, I did a complete and total blank. However...

You can capture a pegasus knight on Ch. 10 and Ch. 11. Ch. 10 has one more unit slot compared to possible units joined, and a ballista that’s fairly useful (only he can use it without giving a heart seal to Mozu) and Ch. 11 has treasure. He’s your only thief. He’s probably being deployed no matter how you play. Also when does Niles “outlive his usefulness”? Genuinely curious question, because he has a lot of utility.

Also lol at rally speed as a 1 turn speed buff, you can spam it as much as you want. 4 speed to multiple units is a major buff, it heavily increases the offense of any unit that’s even in range of the border of doubling (due to other buffs), units like Xander, Leo, Beruka, Effie, all really benefit from rally speed. And considering that rally speed is a buff that in many circumstances double a unit’s effective attack, I highly doubt that attacking without using it would be more effective than attacking with it.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Aut said:

My bad on the marriage thing, I did a complete and total blank. However...

You can capture a pegasus knight on Ch. 10 and Ch. 11. Ch. 10 has one more unit slot compared to possible units joined, and a ballista that’s fairly useful (only he can use it without giving a heart seal to Mozu) and Ch. 11 has treasure. He’s your only thief. He’s probably being deployed no matter how you play. Also when does Niles “outlive his usefulness”? Genuinely curious question, because he has a lot of utility.

Also lol at rally speed as a 1 turn speed buff, you can spam it as much as you want. 4 speed to multiple units is a major buff, it heavily increases the offense of any unit that’s even in range of the border of doubling (due to other buffs), units like Xander, Leo, Beruka, Effie, all really benefit from rally speed. And considering that rally speed is a buff that in many circumstances double a unit’s effective attack, I highly doubt that attacking without using it would be more effective than attacking with it.

As far as Niles outliving his usefulness, the answer is... As soon as his daughter Nina or Anna becomes relevant. Which can be really early, mind you. (Personally, I always get her [Anna] around chapter 10; Nina comes along later, but it's ALWAYS before clearing chapter 18) Also... Chapter 10, being what it is, is hardly an ideal time to try to capture mooks - missing against a sky knight can easily cost me the game. And I doubt I'd have further use for Niles after that chapter for reasons already mentioned...

Frankly, that would likely depend on if their speed growth cooperates. None of those units you mentioned are exactly speed demons... Also, getting Rally Speed, once again, relies on either sealing Selena or Azura (seal limit issues), marrying off Azura and using Shigure (he's hardly a fantastic unit), or relying on a captured mook (NWI).

Edited April 13, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia