Is Medeus really that bad a guy?

[Jotari]

So clearly Medeus isn't a nice guy. He did invade Altea and Archanea and get a bunch of people killed. And I do feel for Marth wanting to get his homeland back...But what would actually have happened if he just stayed in Tayls and spent the rest of his life fighting pirates? Orleans eventually would have been subjected (by Macedonia and not Dolhr incidentally), Hardin and Nyna would have died and...that's about it. Medeus didn't seem to have any grand plan beyond conquest. Shiida claims when she's recruiting Lorenz that Manaketes are going to take over the world but we don't really see any evidence of that. Two manaketes watch over Archanea and one is stationed in Altea (and maybe some others I've forgotten, but the point is, the number of manaketes outside of Dolhr is in the single digits). It's not really a hostile take over, and they've had years to do one. The humans of Macedonia, Grust and Gra certainly think it's unlikely enough to happen that they're willing to ally with the dragons. Hell, there's even humans peacefully living in Dolhr itself with the dragons. At least I assume they're peaceful. There's no mention of slaves or work camps or anything of the like. It doesn't even have an arena. Medeus' backstory is that he was pissed that the humans were the ones treating manaketes as second class citizen so he went to war with the entire world. All he really wants is humans to respect dragons, which is understandable, they're freaking dragons, they shouldn't be second class citizens when they gave humanity all their knowledge (and booze) in the first place. So with that considered, his waging war isn't really justified, but he's not really any worse than the likes of Michalis. In fact, I think I'd say he's the most benign final villain in the entire franchise. If Marth never left his island, chances are people would just have to bow whenever they saw a manakete passing in the street.

[omegaxis1]

Medeus was seeking for the subjugation of the human race. For the dragons to be on top. Humans persecuted the manaketes because of how they had become weak in their new forms. Medeus watched this for a thousand years. 

So basically Medeus sought to inflict worse on the humans that didn't swear fealty to the dragons. 

[Jotari]

6 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Medeus was seeking for the subjugation of the human race. For the dragons to be on top. Humans persecuted the manaketes because of how they had become weak in their new forms. Medeus watched this for a thousand years. 

So basically Medeus sought to inflict worse on the humans that didn't swear fealty to the dragons. 

Yeah, but, where's the evidence of this? Humans aren't being subjugated throughout Shadow Dragon, in fact, they're flourishing, even in the supposedly dragon ruled country. Humans did most of his dirty work for him. The most we get out of Medeus himself is that he'll make those that awakened his slumber suffer. Of course I'm talking almost exclusively about Shadow Dragon Medeus, Mystery of the Emblem Medeus (confusingly the actual Shadow Dragon version) is quite clearly antagonistic towards humans, but he's also seems insane with his vicious all caps. And artwork would suggest this was the state he was actually in during the war with Anri when he got such a bad rep.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Jotari

[omegaxis1]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Yeah, but, where's the evidence of this? Humans aren't being subjugated throughout Shadow Dragon, in fact, they're flourishing, even in the supposedly dragon ruled country. Humans did most of his dirty work for him. The most we get out of Medeus himself is that he'll make those that awakened his slumber suffer. Of course I'm talking almost exclusively about Shadow Dragon Medeus, Mystery of the Emblem Medeus (confusingly the actual Shadow Dragon version) is quite clearly antagonistic towards humans, but he's also seems insane with his vicious all caps. And artwork would suggest this was the state he was actually in during the war with Anri when he got such a bad rep.

Actually, there is much evidence to suggest that there was many cruel acts done:

For example, look what they do to show their authority with Nyna's family:

Quote

“…When the palace fell, many, many good Akaneians were killed. The royal family…My family were…Their bodies were hung before the gates as an example. I cannot unpaint that vivid picture, of my parents grotesquely changed…I feel as though I should cry, Marth; or scream. But no tears come, and I cannot chase away the sadness and rage… …I cannot change the past. I can only shape the future. Lead the way, Marth. I am ready. Take me home.”

And then there's also how one of the houses in the same chapter has the person say this:

Quote

“A gang of ruffians have rounded up some Akaneian folk and are holdin! em over at the edge of town. What a world it’s become, that we’ve gotta be prisoners in our own land!”

And when Marth goes back to Altea:

Quote

“The Altean army! Welcome home. It’s good to see you. These years been nowt but dark days; it’s about time we had something bright to look forward to.”

I think the issue that you feel in a lack of evidence is the issue of the show vs tell. We're at best told that bad stuff happened, but just not see it.

[Etrurian emperor]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

The humans of Macedonia, Grust and Gra certainly think it's unlikely enough to happen that they're willing to ally with the dragons. Hell, there's even humans peacefully living in Dolhr itself with the dragons. At least I assume they're peaceful. There's no mention of slaves or work camps or anything of the like. It doesn't even have an arena.

Yes but its important to note that Michalis, Jiol and unnamed Grust king are all a bunch of dullards. Them not having the foresight to see that allying with a tyrant trying to subjugate humanity isn't a good idea is completely in character for all three of them. Well, Michalis has his ambition to rebel but that's just a different kind of foolishness. 

I think its safe to assume that the humans in Dolhr are supposed to be of a lower class. Its never said exactly but then again nothing about Dohr is ever said aside from them being evil and Xane's explanation of Medeus backstory. But even with that little details we know they are definitely a step down from the Archenean rulers. Both the palaces in Archenea and Altea are supposed to have been subjected to atrocities by their Dolhr stewards and the origin story of Macedon is that they all used to be enslaved by the dragons. 

Unlike Arvis' empire or even Daien there aren't any redeeming features we hear about Dolhr. All we hear are stories of oppression and  atrocities so I don't think we're supposed to see their intentions as anything other than rotten to the core. 

Edited April 13, 2018 by Etrurian emperor

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Actually, there is much evidence to suggest that there was many cruel acts done:

For example, look what they do to show their authority with Nyna's family:

And then there's also how one of the houses in the same chapter has the person say this:

And when Marth goes back to Altea:

I think the issue that you feel in a lack of evidence is the issue of the show vs tell. We're at best told that bad stuff happened, but just not see it.

But it was Grust that did the sacking of Arkanea.

30 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Yes but its important to note that Michalis, Jiol and unnamed Grust king are all a bunch of dullards. Them not having the foresight to see that allying with a tyrant trying to subjugate humanity isn't a good idea is completely in character for all three of them. Well, Michalis has his ambition to rebel but that's just a different kind of foolishness. 

I think its safe to assume that the humans in Dolhr are supposed to be of a lower class. Its never said exactly but then again nothing about Dohr is ever said aside from them being evil and Xane's explanation of Medeus backstory. But even with that little details we know they are definitely a step down from the Archenean rulers. Both the palaces in Archenea and Altea are supposed to have been subjected to atrocities by their Dolhr stewards and the origin story of Macedon is that they all used to be enslaved by the dragons. 

Unlike Arvis' empire or even Daien there aren't any redeeming features we hear about Dolhr. All we hear are stories of oppression and  atrocities so I don't think we're supposed to see their intentions as anything other than rotten to the core. 

Grust King is called Ludwik http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Ludwik

[Etrurian emperor]

Just now, Jotari said:

Grust King is called Ludwik http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Ludwik

Ah yes. I believe I was vaguely aware of that one since I always imagined him with a Ludwig von Beethoven haircutt 

But the name practically might as well not be there since the king himself spends the vast majority of the Archenea games simply not being there. 

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

But it was Grust that did the sacking of Arkanea.

Only because that was what Dolhr ordered. Hell, Medeus wanted Camus to hand over Nyna, but Camus refused this. 

Remember that Grust cannot defy Dolhr because the prince and princess are hostages. 

[Etrurian emperor]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

But it was Grust that did the sacking of Arkanea.

Its been ages but doesn't Dolh's own forces usually guard the palaces? They certainly do so in Altea were the current steward gloats to Marth about how he killed his mom and I believe the enemy info in the Archenean palace lists the enemies as ''Dolhr'' rather than ''Grust''. And they certainly had authority over the Grust forces since Camus not only had to listen to them but was punished(apparently tortured according to the wiki) because he didn't do so. 

[Jotari]

17 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Ah yes. I believe I was vaguely aware of that one since I always imagined him with a Ludwig von Beethoven haircutt 

But the name practically might as well not be there since the king himself spends the vast majority of the Archenea games simply not being there. 

I remember his name because I once mixed it up with Ludveck from Radiant Dawn. And to his credit, he's dead in the second game, so that's a pretty good reason not to show up.

12 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Its been ages but doesn't Dolh's own forces usually guard the palaces? They certainly do so in Altea were the current steward gloats to Marth about how he killed his mom and I believe the enemy info in the Archenean palace lists the enemies as ''Dolhr'' rather than ''Grust''. And they certainly had authority over the Grust forces since Camus not only had to listen to them but was punished(apparently tortured according to the wiki) because he didn't do so. 

I think it's a mix a both. But on that note, interestingly there's a dragon outside Archanea's palace, and a dragon inside, but it's a human sage that actually sits on the throne and seems to be in control of the palace. He even talks about defying Dolhr, which indicates humans have some form of standing in the empire, or at the very least that they can gain some standing and are not completely a slave race (there's also a Dohlr labelled boss that comes as reinforcements but unfortunately has no dialogue).

Of course all these human enemies from Dolhr are obviously because they didn't want to throw tonnes of dragons at you throughout the game. But we get what's presented with the plot modified to be a game (and they do throw some dragons at you by the time you reclaim Archanea, yet none of them are the chapter bosses for some reason).

Edited April 13, 2018 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

Regarding the big number of human enemies from Dolhr, I've always kinda headcanon that a few of them are manaketes. But fighting without their dragonstone for reasons, ala Gotoh and Xane.

Either way, it probably wouldn't be surprising if there really was a significant number of humans who agreed with Medeus, one reason or another. I mean, just what are the chances the manaketes of Dolhr kept preaching Medeus's line of thought within Dolhr itself. Molding and influencing the human population who wouldn't know better, at least at first...

Edited April 13, 2018 by Acacia Sgt

[Emperor Hardin]

43 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Regarding the big number of human enemies from Dolhr, I've always kinda headcanon that a few of them are manaketes. But fighting without their dragonstone for reasons, ala Gotoh and Xane.

Either way, it probably wouldn't be surprising if there really was a significant number of humans who agreed with Medeus, one reason or another. I mean, just what are the chances the manaketes of Dolhr kept preaching Medeus's line of thought within Dolhr itself. Molding and influencing the human population who wouldn't know better, at least at first...

There are humans that live in and around Dolhr and there are definite humans in positions of some power in Dolhr such as Volzhin and Gouber, as well as Grustians who genuinely like the alliance with Dolhr. We see Manaketes like Bulzark are willing to reward humans that help their longterm goals with money and power, even ones from the "human nations", that is not just the wild tribes. The TCG depicts a Dolhrian priesthood composed of humans as well.

There is always a need for a upperclass in any society, human slaves need overseers and commanders. We definitely see Dolhr and Grust humans pronounce the superiority of Manaketes. Plus Manaketes reproduced slowly, if they can reproduce at all.

If the human populations of Dolhr, Grust and even Macedon are free, but the majority of humans in Archanea, Talys, Aurelis, and Altea are enslaved, thats still a definite win for Manakete's superiority. Particularly as all leaders would still bow down to Emperor Medeus of the Dolhr empire.

I do imagine Kings of Dolhr's human allies such as Ludwik(who is only with Dolhr out of fear) would eventually be bumped off in their victory, though, to replace with either Manaketes or more Medeus loyal humans.

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

I think it's a mix a both. But on that note, interestingly there's a dragon outside Archanea's palace, and a dragon inside, but it's a human sage that actually sits on the throne and seems to be in control of the palace. He even talks about defying Dolhr, which indicates humans have some form of standing in the empire, or at the very least that they can gain some standing and are not completely a slave race (there's also a Dohlr labelled boss that comes as reinforcements but unfortunately has no dialogue).

Volzhin, he is described as a General of Dolhr by Camus and there are manaketes around him.

Interestingly, Grust, Dolhr's main human ally is described as having the best view of manaketes among the human nations in Kaga's notes. Its founder, Ordwin, was one of the only heroes not to hate Manaketes.

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[Jotari]

11 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

There are humans that live in and around Dolhr and there are definite humans in positions of some power in Dolhr such as Volzhin and Gouber, as well as Grustians who genuinely like the alliance with Dolhr. We see Manaketes like Bulzark are willing to reward humans that help their longterm goals with money and power, even ones from the "human nations", that is not just the wild tribes. The TCG depicts a Dolhrian priesthood composed of humans as well.

There is always a need for a upperclass in any society, human slaves need overseers and commanders. We definitely see Dolhr and Grust humans pronounce the superiority of Manaketes. Plus Manaketes reproduced slowly, if they can reproduce at all.

Volzhin, he is described as a General of Dolhr by Camus and there are manaketes around him.

Interestingly, Grust, Dolhr's main human ally is described as having the best view of manaketes among the human nations in Kaga's notes. Its founder, Ordwin, was one of the only heroes not to hate Manaketes.

 

That's actually kind of funny, considering that's the one place in Archanea shown to have feral Manaketes outside of Dohlr and the wilderness areas. Namely that one wild one really near the Fane of Raman. You'd think having a few giant lizards threatening to eat their citizens would give a dim few of manaketes. Unless they like manaketes specifically because they're not mindless beasts (or maybe they just genuinely respect that big awesome creature that lives in the land, meaning the literal use of awesome).

[Moblin Major General]

Although Medeus's reigns were far shorter than Loptyr's, they were very similar in some ways: regicide, mass killing, enslavement, and a total lack of rule of law. I also headcanon that Loptyr was also a Shadow Dragon. Their reasons were different, and Medeus even betrayed Loptyr by creating the only Earthstone and turning his back on the Earth Dragons. But Earth Dragons seem to have a propensity toward malice, which innately undercuts any desire to do good, much like Ganondorf in The Wind Waker in regards to the Demise curse.

[omegaxis1]

8 minutes ago, Hylian Air Force said:

Although Medeus's reigns were far shorter than Loptyr's, they were very similar in some ways: regicide, mass killing, enslavement, and a total lack of rule of law. I also headcanon that Loptyr was also a Shadow Dragon. Their reasons were different, and Medeus even betrayed Loptyr by creating the only Earthstone and turning his back on the Earth Dragons. But Earth Dragons seem to have a propensity toward malice, which innately undercuts any desire to do good, much like Ganondorf in The Wind Waker in regards to the Demise curse.

I'll be honest, if there's any chance of there being some possible new retcon where there's another Earth Dragon manakete, I pray that one has a good view on humanity. Least show some form of moral grey that now all Earth Dragons are gonna become evil.

I think the entire case of the Shadow Dragon might be regarding hatred. Medeus and Loptyr hated humans so much that it caused them to transform into the Shadow Dragon. 

But frankly, my main concern is exactly what happened to Loptyr's body? Blood pacts doesn't cause loss of body.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Hylian Air Force said:

Although Medeus's reigns were far shorter than Loptyr's, they were very similar in some ways: regicide, mass killing, enslavement, and a total lack of rule of law. I also headcanon that Loptyr was also a Shadow Dragon. Their reasons were different, and Medeus even betrayed Loptyr by creating the only Earthstone and turning his back on the Earth Dragons. But Earth Dragons seem to have a propensity toward malice, which innately undercuts any desire to do good, much like Ganondorf in The Wind Waker in regards to the Demise curse.

We don't actually see any actual enslavement, which is the only thing that would really make Dolhr different from a typical conquest. Actually we do see some slavery in Archanea, when Marth recruits Linde, but once again it's humans doing the enslaving. And considering some backstories like Ogma's would imply slavery has always been a bit of a thing in Archanea.

 

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Regarding the big number of human enemies from Dolhr, I've always kinda headcanon that a few of them are manaketes. But fighting without their dragonstone for reasons, ala Gotoh and Xane.

Either way, it probably wouldn't be surprising if there really was a significant number of humans who agreed with Medeus, one reason or another. I mean, just what are the chances the manaketes of Dolhr kept preaching Medeus's line of thought within Dolhr itself. Molding and influencing the human population who wouldn't know better, at least at first...

I like this theory.

[Emperor Hardin]

5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Its been ages but doesn't Dolh's own forces usually guard the palaces? They certainly do so in Altea were the current steward gloats to Marth about how he killed his mom and I believe the enemy info in the Archenean palace lists the enemies as ''Dolhr'' rather than ''Grust''. And they certainly had authority over the Grust forces since Camus not only had to listen to them but was punished(apparently tortured according to the wiki) because he didn't do so. 

Missed this post.

Altea was initially held by Grust's Sable order under Camus. When Camus fell out of favor due to delivering Nyna to Aurelis rather then executing her, he was replaced by Morzas the Mage Manakete. Both the narrator and the generic NPCs describe Morzas as a tyrant who executed many innocents, while making the rest live in squalor.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

We don't actually see any actual enslavement, which is the only thing that would really make Dolhr different from a typical conquest. Actually we do see some slavery in Archanea, when Marth recruits Linde, but once again it's humans doing the enslaving. And considering some backstories like Ogma's would imply slavery has always been a bit of a thing in Archanea.

In the NES version, he appears to be a manakete.

The SNES version slaver appears to be an old human man/woman.

The DS Version+FE Warriors changed it to generic bandits imprisoning young men who could oppose them.

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

That's actually kind of funny, considering that's the one place in Archanea shown to have feral Manaketes outside of Dohlr and the wilderness areas. Namely that one wild one really near the Fane of Raman. You'd think having a few giant lizards threatening to eat their citizens would give a dim few of manaketes. Unless they like manaketes specifically because they're not mindless beasts (or maybe they just genuinely respect that big awesome creature that lives in the land, meaning the literal use of awesome).

If you think about it though compared to the other nations:

* Archanea: Long history of violence with manaketes. Keepers of the Fire Emblem.

* Altea: Vassal nation to Archanea, idolizes Anri who killed Medeus.

* Gra: See Altea, but less so. 

* Aurelis: Opposed Dolhr in the war of liberation.

* Macedon: Lived in Manakete slavery, so very long history of hatred between them. Additionally plenty of insane dragons around the border between it and Dolhr.

* Khadein: Founded by Gotoh, longtime opponent of Dolhr.

Conversely outside of the little mentioned Pyrathi, Grust has the least history of conflict with Dolhr/Manaketes. I mean an island near/part of your kingdom having a degenerated dragon isn't so bad.

4 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Regarding the big number of human enemies from Dolhr, I've always kinda headcanon that a few of them are manaketes. But fighting without their dragonstone for reasons, ala Gotoh and Xane.

 

Certainly not impossible. Dragonstones getting exhausted permanently is indicated.

I imagine most former dragons would probably be magic classes like Bishops or Dark Mages/Sorcerers. Come to think of it, Volzhin could be one?

Edited April 14, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Missed this post.

Altea was initially held by Grust's Sable order under Camus. When Camus fell out of favor due to delivering Nyna to Aurelis rather then executing her, he was replaced by Morzas the Mage Manakete. Both the narrator and the generic NPCs describe Morzas as a tyrant who executed many innocents, while making the rest live in squalor.

In the NES version, he appears to be a manakete.

The SNES version slaver appears to be an old human man/woman.

The DS Version+FE Warriors changed it to generic bandits imprisoning young men who could oppose them.

If you think about it though compared to the other nations:

* Archanea: Long history of violence with manaketes. Keepers of the Fire Emblem.

* Altea: Vassal nation to Archanea, idolizes Anri who killed Medeus.

* Gra: See Altea, but less so. 

* Aurelis: Opposed Dolhr in the war of liberation.

* Macedon: Lived in Manakete slavery, so very long history of hatred between them. Additionally plenty of insane dragons around the border between it and Dolhr.

* Khadein: Founded by Gotoh, longtime opponent of Dolhr.

Conversely outside of the little mentioned Pyrathi, Grust has the least history of conflict with Dolhr/Manaketes. I mean an island near/part of your kingdom having a degenerated dragon isn't so bad.

Certainly not impossible. Dragonstones getting exhausted permanently is indicated.

I imagine most former dragons would probably be magic classes like Bishops or Dark Mages/Sorcerers. Come to think of it, Volzhin could be one?

Oh wow. That slave was a Manakete in the original! That's a change they definitely shouldn't have made. Never would have made this thread if that was the case.

Your summary of the nations is accurate, and that just reinforces the suggestion I'm making. Medeus certainly isn't nice, but it seems to be a far cry from the likes of Loptyr or Ashnard's intentions and most of the hatred he receives comes from past actions rather than current ones. Or to put it another way, we can assume he wants to make the entire world like Dolhr, and from what we see, Dolhr isn't that bad. And then consider how there's basically no Manaketes two thousand years later, maybe he was right not to trust humans to not genocide his kind. Of course the whole reason humans hate dragons would be down to the Earth Dragon war and Medeus's own actions. Giving an endless cycle of hatred as Manaketes strive to be respected and humans strive to retaliate.

[Etrurian emperor]

8 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

The SNES version slaver appears to be an old human man/woman.

The slaver is an old lady in the Manga as well who has her eyes set on Rickard and Merric for some reason. 

[RedRob]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

 And then consider how there's basically no Manaketes two thousand years later, maybe he was right not to trust humans to not genocide his kind.

I thought that was due to the whole low birthrate thing. Like wasn't Tiki the last manakete to be born?

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, RedRob said:

I thought that was due to the whole low birthrate thing. Like wasn't Tiki the last manakete to be born?

Yeah, but given how long they live, there should still be countless of them around. Bantu is implied to still be alive from a line of throw away text and he was probably the oldest looking Manakete of them all.

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

The slaver is an old lady in the Manga as well who has her eyes set on Rickard and Merric for some reason. 

Even a woman would have been more interesting than the generic looking mug they gave us in what is now the definitive version of the game (at least in the west).

[Emperor Hardin]

14 hours ago, Jotari said:

Even a woman would have been more interesting than the generic looking mug they gave us in what is now the definitive version of the game (at least in the west).

I felt the FE3 Slaver could've been an old woman.

The change from Old lady selling young boys to Bandits capturing able bodied young men seems like censorship in my honest opinion.

Speaking of that generic mug, he shows up numerous times in the DS remakes. By contrast, the old slaver only appears in that one scene in both the NES and SNES versions.

In Shadow Dragon.

* The Gra who tied up Gordin in the prologue.

* The aforementioned Linde kidnapping.

He appears a ton in the DS remake of Mystery:

* Appears as an Assassin In the prologue with a battle and death quote, despite not having a portrait in gameplay nor any kind of name. He is the only boss like this.

* Signals thief reinforcements in chapter 1, taking place in Grust.

* Does the same in chapter 4, again in Grust.

* Appears as a Macedon Deserter killed by Hardin in the second Satellaview episode.

* Harasses Lena but scared off by Navarre in the opening of the fourth satellaview episode.

And somehow FE:W not only uses the censored version of the Linde recruitment, but gives the ruffian's lines to Owain. Meanwhile Jake and Khozen, the actual important character of the map, don't get any representation. Odd, I think.

On 4/13/2018 at 2:40 PM, Jotari said:

 He even talks about defying Dolhr, which indicates humans have some form of standing in the empire, or at the very least that they can gain some standing and are not completely a slave race (there's also a Dohlr labelled boss that comes as reinforcements but unfortunately has no dialogue).

Forgot to mention this, Heimler, the dialogue less mini boss, is given a little bit of characterization in the manga as Volzhin's direct subordinate in charge of executing the prisoners.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I felt the FE3 Slaver could've been an old woman.

The change from Old lady selling young boys to Bandits capturing able bodied young men seems like censorship in my honest opinion.

Speaking of that generic mug, he shows up numerous times in the DS remakes. By contrast, the old slaver only appears in that one scene in both the NES and SNES versions.

In Shadow Dragon.

* The Gra who tied up Gordin in the prologue.

* The aforementioned Linde kidnapping.

He appears a ton in the DS remake of Mystery:

* Appears as an Assassin In the prologue with a battle and death quote, despite not having a portrait in gameplay nor any kind of name. He is the only boss like this.

* Signals thief reinforcements in chapter 1, taking place in Grust.

* Does the same in chapter 4, again in Grust.

* Appears as a Macedon Deserter killed by Hardin in the second Satellaview episode.

* Harasses Lena but scared off by Navarre in the opening of the fourth satellaview episode.

And somehow FE:W not only uses the censored version of the Linde recruitment, but gives the ruffian's lines to Owain. Meanwhile Jake and Khozen, the actual important character of the map, don't get any representation. Odd, I think.

Forgot to mention this, Heimler, the dialogue less mini boss, is given a little bit of characterization in the manga as Volzhin's direct subordinate in charge of executing the prisoners.

I feel the NES and SNES versions knew how important that minor character was for world building, but the DS version just treated it as Linde recruiting and nothing else. The fact that they use that particular portrait so much when they went to the effort to change every boss with a duplicate portrait means he is an entirely throw away character.

[Etrurian emperor]

14 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Speaking of that generic mug, he shows up numerous times in the DS remakes. By contrast, the old slaver only appears in that one scene in both the NES and SNES versions.

In Shadow Dragon.

* The Gra who tied up Gordin in the prologue.

* The aforementioned Linde kidnapping.

He appears a ton in the DS remake of Mystery:

* Appears as an Assassin In the prologue with a battle and death quote, despite not having a portrait in gameplay nor any kind of name. He is the only boss like this.

* Signals thief reinforcements in chapter 1, taking place in Grust.

* Does the same in chapter 4, again in Grust.

* Appears as a Macedon Deserter killed by Hardin in the second Satellaview episode.

* Harasses Lena but scared off by Navarre in the opening of the fourth satellaview episode

Wouldn't it be amazing if it really was all the same guy? He'd have quite the career if that's the case. From coining the name gaggles to deserter, to slave trader, thief and finally assassin. His tale would surely be an epic one. 

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Wouldn't it be amazing if it really was all the same guy? He'd have quite the career if that's the case. From coining the name gaggles to deserter, to slave trader, thief and finally assassin. His tale would surely be an epic one. 

To fanfiction.net!

Wait, him getting killed in the Sataellaview episode which happens before anything else kind of puts a dampener in that. Unless Hardin didn't kill him and only landed a severe blow...He must have proced miracle, even though skills don't exist in Archanea.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Jotari