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Valentian Revelations/Accordion = Remakes? Retcons?


omegaxis1
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26 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I believe that Excalibur and Aura simply has a special kind of contract placed on it by design. Given that Excalibur was created through special means and is a powerful tome, its possible it was created by Gotoh as well, and has draconic ties to it. We only hear Aura being a dragonstone, but not Excalibur. Is there a difference? Not sure.

Yes, which is why I am thinking that these new possibilities are being depicted to likely happen. We might end up getting a retcon of Anri and Marcelus being those with the Brand. Honestly, its rather weird that Naga would even need to place a bloodlock on Falchion when she gave it to Duma, cause it makes no sense. If she bloodlocked it, then if Duma never made a bloodpact, then Falchion would never be able to be used.

Except exactly what kind of dragonstone are we being referred to? Keep in mind that dragonstones are the very item that dragons use to seal their draconic powers away. If they lose it, they lost their ability to transform. So can they just have placed their dragonstones in the weapons and gone out? Or were they able to somehow make new ones, which makes no sense. Contrary to how the gameplay functions, the dragon with their dragonstone is something that is theirs and only theirs. 

Not all nobles are of Crusader lineage. After all, Kempf is a noble of Freege, but isn't of Crusader lineage, so it stands a good reason to say that Reinhardt is also in that same position. 

It's possible Excalibur also has one. THe article that mentioned Aura having one brings it up as an example. So it doesn't exclude Excalibur from having one.

I still think there's something weird going on about stating Naga placed a restriction on a weapon that wasn't meant to be limmited in such a way. A statement such a this...

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Chapter 21
Those who carry the divine dragon’s blood and bear her mark can draw out the Kingsfang’s true strength and manifest their royal power.

Sounds detrimental as to why she made the sword in the first place. Although, worded this way, it shows it's actually not needed to have her blood. Sword can still be used, just not at 100% efficiency.

As I said, dragonstones are just storage devices at the end of the day. It's not really stated dragons have to place all their excess energy into just one. It's possible a dragon can place energy into more than one (when you think about it, since dragonstones seem to be gem-like or crystal-like, then they're simply the energy in a solid form), which is how you have those dragonstones in the weapons. They placed some of their power there. At the least, I could see someone as powerful as Naga as being capable of having the energy to spare on powering a few weapons (Book of Naga, Falchion, etc.), and not be that much worse for wear. Maybe, considering the Book of Naga was made half a century before her death.

As I mentioned, not all nobles are. But then how can you determine who is and who isn't?

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6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It's possible Excalibur also has one. THe article that mentioned Aura having one brings it up as an example. So it doesn't exclude Excalibur from having one.

I still think there's something weird going on about stating Naga placed a restriction on a weapon that wasn't meant to be limmited in such a way. A statement such a this...

Sounds detrimental as to why she made the sword in the first place. Although, worded this way, it shows it's actually not needed to have her blood. Sword can still be used, just not at 100% efficiency.

As I said, dragonstones are just storage devices at the end of the day. It's not really stated dragons have to place all their excess energy into just one. It's possible a dragon can place energy into more than one (when you think about it, since dragonstones seem to be gem-like or crystal-like, then they're simply the energy in a solid form), which is how you have those dragonstones in the weapons. They placed some of their power there. At the least, I could see someone as powerful as Naga as being capable of having the energy to spare on powering a few weapons (Book of Naga, Falchion, etc.), and not be that much worse for wear. Maybe, considering the Book of Naga was made half a century before her death.

As I mentioned, not all nobles are. But then how can you determine who is and who isn't?

Possibly. I mean, humans haven't yet established magic of this caliber yet, aside from Gharnef.

Yes, all that it requires is a the Brand and the blood of a Divine Dragon, not specifically her. However, going by the context in FE3, only Tiki, Naga, Gotoh, and Xane survived the Dragon War as the Divine Dragons. All others died out. The new timeline though now seems to imply that there could have been others, as now it states that it was the royal line that died out, with Tiki the survivor. But since this is FE3-FE4, the 11 dragons that went with Naga couldn't all have been Divine Dragons. But given the context of Valentia, Duma and Mila are the ONLY Divine Dragons, so had they not formed a blood pact that only occurred due to their waning powers, no one could wield the Falchion. Also, though you say that it just can't be used at 100% proficiency, I think that defeats the purpose of Anri and Marth, indicating that they never used its full powers, which contradicts some stuff. Plus, Shannan and Lucina confirms that a blade tied to blood would be useless to anyone aside from the blood.

That contradicts the lore that we have been given though. Naga, I could buy somewhat, but that leaves 11 other dragons. If they were powerless from giving their dragonstones, how would they have the power to get back home? Jugdral hasn't had an established location with the other continents. Could very well be the other side of the planet.

Implication or confirmed really. Thracia never shows the Holy Blood system Genealogy has. So if there's no implied or mentioned connection, odds are there really aren't, especially in a series regarding a continent where the Holy Blood is something of worship.

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2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yes, all that it requires is a the Brand and the blood of a Divine Dragon, not specifically her. However, going by the context in FE3, only Tiki, Naga, Gotoh, and Xane survived the Dragon War as the Divine Dragons. All others died out. The new timeline though now seems to imply that there could have been others, as now it states that it was the royal line that died out, with Tiki the survivor. But since this is FE3-FE4, the 11 dragons that went with Naga couldn't all have been Divine Dragons. But given the context of Valentia, Duma and Mila are the ONLY Divine Dragons, so had they not formed a blood pact that only occurred due to their waning powers, no one could wield the Falchion. Also, though you say that it just can't be used at 100% proficiency, I think that defeats the purpose of Anri and Marth, indicating that they never used its full powers, which contradicts some stuff. Plus, Shannan and Lucina confirms that a blade tied to blood would be useless to anyone aside from the blood.

That contradicts the lore that we have been given though. Naga, I could buy somewhat, but that leaves 11 other dragons. If they were powerless from giving their dragonstones, how would they have the power to get back home? Jugdral hasn't had an established location with the other continents. Could very well be the other side of the planet.

What does non Divine Dragons have to do with this? The whole "Naga's bloodline" thing is only brought up with the Valentian Falchion. Duma and Gotoh, people who placed restrictions on Naga's fangs, are also Divine. What does the other Dragons that went to Darna and their Holy Weapons have to do with this? Not me. The thing you quoted says it can't be used at full power without Naga's blood. And as I said... is it really correct that thing about Naga? Naga expected the sword to be used. Did she expect Duma or Mila would brand them, or just gave the sword without expecting to. Because, again, having a brand-lock defeats the purpose of giving teh sword away. Limiting the use of the sword is against its purpose. So again, is it really correct that statement about Naga's blood and the swordS?

Again, what about the other dragons? No one said they were powerless. Think of it this way. They store 100% of their excess energy in a single dragonstone. But then, they decide to move... say, 10% to 15% in a second dragonstone (which would be the energy itself in solid form, so it's not like it's actually being moved, just turned back to energy but instead of being used, it's just solidified separately from the main form). So they now have two. One housing 15% and the other 85%. It's not like they use all of it whenver they transform. The 15% one is placed on the weapon. They keep the rest for use until it rans out. Simple as that. Enogh power to return.

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7 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

What does non Divine Dragons have to do with this? The whole "Naga's bloodline" thing is only brought up with the Valentian Falchion. Duma and Gotoh, people who placed restrictions on Naga's fangs, are also Divine. What does the other Dragons that went to Darna and their Holy Weapons have to do with this? Not me. The thing you quoted says it can't be used at full power without Naga's blood. And as I said... is it really correct that thing about Naga? Naga expected the sword to be used. Did she expect Duma or Mila would brand them, or just gave the sword without expecting to. Because, again, having a brand-lock defeats the purpose of giving teh sword away. Limiting the use of the sword is against its purpose. So again, is it really correct that statement about Naga's blood and the swordS?

That's exactly what I'm wondering. If makes sense with giving a bloodlock to the Archanean Falchion, cause she has a Divine Dragon ready and waiting to watch over humanity as a guardian. But Duma she ended up exiling, and the weapon was meant to kill him and Mila. So it needing a bloodlock kind of defeats the purpose if Duma and Mila never performed said bloodpacts.

13 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Again, what about the other dragons? No one said they were powerless. Think of it this way. They store 100% of their excess energy in a single dragonstone. But then, they decide to move... say, 10% to 15% in a second dragonstone (which would be the energy itself in solid form, so it's not like it's actually being moved, just turned back to energy but instead of being used, it's just solidified separately from the main form). So they now have two. One housing 15% and the other 85%. It's not like they use all of it whenver they transform. The 15% one is placed on the weapon. They keep the rest for use until it rans out. Simple as that. Enogh power to return.

That still goes against the known lore, where the point of the dragonstones was to seal off their dragon power completely to avoid degeneration. Only one that is known to need a bit more than that is Tiki, who needed the Shield of Seals in the Archanea series. 

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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

That's exactly what I'm wondering. If makes sense with giving a bloodlock to the Archanean Falchion, cause she has a Divine Dragon ready and waiting to watch over humanity as a guardian. But Duma she ended up exiling, and the weapon was meant to kill him and Mila. So it needing a bloodlock kind of defeats the purpose if Duma and Mila never performed said bloodpacts.

That still goes against the known lore, where the point of the dragonstones was to seal off their dragon power completely to avoid degeneration. Only one that is known to need a bit more than that is Tiki, who needed the Shield of Seals in the Archanea series. 

Again, assuming the bloodlocks are a thing. I would even say Gotoh restricting use of the Falchion was also as detrimental as it could get. On one hand, it has the plus that no one could use it to go to town on dragons with malign intentions. Heck, discrimination against dragons is what made Medeus into an antagonist to humanity in the first place. But on the other hand, if a dragon does turn malign to humanity, limiting who can use the sword design to take them down turns into a design flaw.

Not really. Nothing in the lore says they can't. The point of dragonstones was to house the energy outside of them. Doesn't matter where it was, or if it had to be all in one place. So long it wasn't on their own bodies, that's fine. That was the only condition. So, nothing says they can't have more than one dragonstone. Having one would be just a matter of convenience. But for things like powering up items? Not a problem to separate some energy from the main pool for that.

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1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Again, assuming the bloodlocks are a thing. I would even say Gotoh restricting use of the Falchion was also as detrimental as it could get. On one hand, it has the plus that no one could use it to go to town on dragons with malign intentions. Heck, discrimination against dragons is what made Medeus into an antagonist to humanity in the first place. But on the other hand, if a dragon does turn malign to humanity, limiting who can use the sword design to take them down turns into a design flaw.

Not really. Nothing in the lore says they can't. The point of dragonstones was to house the energy outside of them. Doesn't matter where it was, or if it had to be all in one place. So long it wasn't on their own bodies, that's fine. That was the only condition. So, nothing says they can't have more than one dragonstone. Having one would be just a matter of convenience. But for things like powering up items? Not a problem to separate some energy from the main pool for that.

Given that Gotoh is the one that had Falchion in his possession, and though Gotoh was disillusioned with humans, he clearly showed to be extremely loyal to Naga, so I think Naga knew that she would be able to trust Gotoh in this regard. And this trust wasn't misplaced with him as it was with Medeus, since Medeus abandoned his duty to watch over the seal of the Earth Dragons and instead waged war on humanity. 

The point of dragonstones was to avoid degeneration. So they sealed all their power off into it. Saying they can make or separate powers from it is not something that has been established or even implied. Kaga never clarified what he meant by dragonstone, especially given the fact that the 5 Gemstones are possibly also considered dragonstones in this regard too that has existed for generations. 

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10 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Given that Gotoh is the one that had Falchion in his possession, and though Gotoh was disillusioned with humans, he clearly showed to be extremely loyal to Naga, so I think Naga knew that she would be able to trust Gotoh in this regard. And this trust wasn't misplaced with him as it was with Medeus, since Medeus abandoned his duty to watch over the seal of the Earth Dragons and instead waged war on humanity. 

The point of dragonstones was to avoid degeneration. So they sealed all their power off into it. Saying they can make or separate powers from it is not something that has been established or even implied. Kaga never clarified what he meant by dragonstone, especially given the fact that the 5 Gemstones are possibly also considered dragonstones in this regard too that has existed for generations. 

That still doesn't explain why restrict use of the Falchion in the first place. Yes, Gotoh ending up granting use of the sword to a human to stop Medeus, but then went the extra mile and binded the sword to his bloodline. That's the point. He restricted use of the sword.

It's energy. It's not different from placing, say, candy in a bag. Then take out a few of them, and placing them in a different bag. Nothing in the lore says it can't be done. So it's quite plausible dragons can move their energy around. They already do when creating the dragonstone in the first place and when using them to transform back. Crafting more than one dragonstone out of it isn't outside the realm of possiblity for them. Simple energy movement. It's not without precedent. Elibe dragons are also quite capable of this. Ninian and Nils placed both their energies into a single dragonstone. And then we saw twice them transfering energy between each other. Even if you discount them for not being ARchanean dragons, it shows that at least some dragons can do this with their energy.

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2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

That still doesn't explain why restrict use of the Falchion in the first place. Yes, Gotoh ending up granting use of the sword to a human to stop Medeus, but then went the extra mile and binded the sword to his bloodline. That's the point. He restricted use of the sword.

It's energy. It's not different from placing, say, candy in a bag. Then take out a few of them, and placing them in a different bag. Nothing in the lore says it can't be done. So it's quite plausible dragons can move their energy around. They already do when creating the dragonstone in the first place and when using them to transform back. Crafting more than one dragonstone out of it isn't outside the realm of possiblity for them. Simple energy movement. It's not without precedent. Elibe dragons are also quite capable of this. Ninian and Nils placed both their energies into a single dragonstone. And then we saw twice them transfering energy between each other. Even if you discount them for not being ARchanean dragons, it shows that at least some dragons can do this with their energy.

Restricting the use of a sword is likely to prevent others from misusing it. For the Archanean one, I can understand. If Gotoh gives it to someone of noble cause, they are truly worthy of it. Anri went through a harsh desert, a volcano, and a frozen mountain. So he more than proved his worth. But the Valentian one I cannot get. But that's just it. Maybe no one ever placed the restriction. It's inherent in nature. Perhaps that's what the lore is trying to have it explained. That the restriction is not made by choice. 

I think you're simplifying things a bit too much. Also, though you're arguing the case of saying that nothing says they can't, we have more evidence suggesting that that's not how it works. The only exception of having unique power sealing is only Tiki. She's always been a unique exception. 

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7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Restricting the use of a sword is likely to prevent others from misusing it. For the Archanean one, I can understand. If Gotoh gives it to someone of noble cause, they are truly worthy of it. Anri went through a harsh desert, a volcano, and a frozen mountain. So he more than proved his worth. But the Valentian one I cannot get. But that's just it. Maybe no one ever placed the restriction. It's inherent in nature. Perhaps that's what the lore is trying to have it explained. That the restriction is not made by choice. 

I think you're simplifying things a bit too much. Also, though you're arguing the case of saying that nothing says they can't, we have more evidence suggesting that that's not how it works. The only exception of having unique power sealing is only Tiki. She's always been a unique exception. 

In the end, the restriction about Naga's blood and brand is about using the full power of the sword. Alm doesn't have either. He has Duma's brand and blood. And even with Anri and Marth, they'd only have Naga's blood at best. If a brand is involved, it'd be Gotoh's.

What evidence there is? It all goes back to not there being evidence they can't. If anything, it's the opposite. The Jugdrali Holy Weapons having dragonstones but no indications that any of the 12 twelve dragons used up all their energy is already a sign they can split off part of their power into a second dragonstone. Naga herself has already done it at least twice (and even thrice if the Valentian Falchion works like the Archanean one). What does Tiki's power sealing has anything to do here?

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19 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

In the end, the restriction about Naga's blood and brand is about using the full power of the sword. Alm doesn't have either. He has Duma's brand and blood. And even with Anri and Marth, they'd only have Naga's blood at best. If a brand is involved, it'd be Gotoh's.

What evidence there is? It all goes back to not there being evidence they can't. If anything, it's the opposite. The Jugdrali Holy Weapons having dragonstones but no indications that any of the 12 twelve dragons used up all their energy is already a sign they can split off part of their power into a second dragonstone. Naga herself has already done it at least twice (and even thrice if the Valentian Falchion works like the Archanean one). What does Tiki's power sealing has anything to do here?

It doesn't say Naga's blood though. Read it again. It says that one must have the blood of a Divine Dragon. Not Naga herself. It says her mark, but I believe that part might have not been the correct translation. 

Also, we've already had instances where a weapon that is not in the proper hands won't be able to use it, let alone awaken 100% of its power. Shannan mentions to Patty that the Balmung would be useless to anyone but him. Lucina says that Falchion held by someone not of royal blood or not worthy would only be holding a dull sword. Aura that works only for female, or originally just Linde, the spells simply won't activate to anyone else. So Alm has Divine Dragon Blood and the Brand can use Falchion at 100% of its power. Any less and it wouldn't work. This could actually be evidenced by how Marth's Exalted Falchion can defeat Duma, but Lucina's Parallel Falchion cannot, despite it supposed to be the same weapon in the end. This is because Lucina only ever performed a partial Awakening where she only unlocked some of Falchion's power, but not all of it, whereas Marth wields the Falchion that is at full power. So Alm's Falchion would need to be at full power to be able to defeat Duma. 

The entire degeneration is the evidence. The point of sealing their dragon power into stone is so that they avoid their power causing them to go insane. There was never a 50% or 85% seal off. It's 100% or none. The only one that ever has multiple sealing or needs more than simply a dragonstone is Tiki. No other dragon is ever evidenced to need such a thing, and thus they sealed off all their powers. 

I say Tiki because she's the ONLY exception to this rule. Despite having a dragonstone that sealed off her powers, Tiki needs the Shield of Seals to be completed to prevent her from degenerating. And in Awakening, a new form of ritual seems to have been created that allows Tiki to seal off or awaken some of her powers. Not sure how, but its clear that something new has been created in the 2000 years since the Archanea series. 

But no other dragon has this kind of restriction that Tiki has. 

The only thing that I could argue would make your theory to make sense is that the orbs are just shards of the actual dragonstone. This is because there are two instances that can suggest this.

1) Though I hate Fates' stupid story, Anankos reveals that the pendent from Azura holds a shard of his dragonstone. Not sure how that works, but dragonstones could be split off.

2) I would never accept the first one had New Mystery not shown that the Starsphere, which can be considered a dragonstone, had split into 12 pieces, and each individual piece can grant the user some power. 

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8 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

It doesn't say Naga's blood though. Read it again. It says that one must have the blood of a Divine Dragon. Not Naga herself. It says her mark, but I believe that part might have not been the correct translation. 

Also, we've already had instances where a weapon that is not in the proper hands won't be able to use it, let alone awaken 100% of its power. Shannan mentions to Patty that the Balmung would be useless to anyone but him. Lucina says that Falchion held by someone not of royal blood or not worthy would only be holding a dull sword. Aura that works only for female, or originally just Linde, the spells simply won't activate to anyone else. So Alm has Divine Dragon Blood and the Brand can use Falchion at 100% of its power. Any less and it wouldn't work. This could actually be evidenced by how Marth's Exalted Falchion can defeat Duma, but Lucina's Parallel Falchion cannot, despite it supposed to be the same weapon in the end. This is because Lucina only ever performed a partial Awakening where she only unlocked some of Falchion's power, but not all of it, whereas Marth wields the Falchion that is at full power. So Alm's Falchion would need to be at full power to be able to defeat Duma. 

The entire degeneration is the evidence. The point of sealing their dragon power into stone is so that they avoid their power causing them to go insane. There was never a 50% or 85% seal off. It's 100% or none. The only one that ever has multiple sealing or needs more than simply a dragonstone is Tiki. No other dragon is ever evidenced to need such a thing, and thus they sealed off all their powers. 

I say Tiki because she's the ONLY exception to this rule. Despite having a dragonstone that sealed off her powers, Tiki needs the Shield of Seals to be completed to prevent her from degenerating. And in Awakening, a new form of ritual seems to have been created that allows Tiki to seal off or awaken some of her powers. Not sure how, but its clear that something new has been created in the 2000 years since the Archanea series. 

But no other dragon has this kind of restriction that Tiki has. 

The only thing that I could argue would make your theory to make sense is that the orbs are just shards of the actual dragonstone. This is because there are two instances that can suggest this.

1) Though I hate Fates' stupid story, Anankos reveals that the pendent from Azura holds a shard of his dragonstone. Not sure how that works, but dragonstones could be split off.

2) I would never accept the first one had New Mystery not shown that the Starsphere, which can be considered a dragonstone, had split into 12 pieces, and each individual piece can grant the user some power. 

It says "Those who carry the divine dragon’s blood and bear her mark". It looks like "her" refers to the divine dragon from earlier in the sentence. If you say it wasn't translated correctly, then that can go for other parts of the article.

There is a difference between not being able to use something at all, and using it without at 100% capacity.

Are you aware that the power being split up in two dragonstones means that it is still sealed 100% away from their bodies? So no, that's not evidence against being able to split up the power. The point of avoiding degeneration is that the power no longer had to be within their own bodies. It doesn't matter if it was stored away in one stone, or five, or a hundred. What mattered was that the energy was stored away. Which is still done no matter how many stones are used.

Well, in this case then Tiki's situation has little to do with this, then. She's an exception, as you say.

Well, there you go. A dragon's power can be split up into more than one storage device. It's canon, then.

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Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

It says "Those who carry the divine dragon’s blood and bear her mark". It looks like "her" refers to the divine dragon from earlier in the sentence. If you say it wasn't translated correctly, then that can go for other parts of the article.

There is a difference between not being able to use something at all, and using it without at 100% capacity.

I wouldn't need to. The context of the game speaks for itself. The timeline too. The blood pact was to allow someone to be able to wield Falchion. Falchion only works with those with the Brand and has Divine Dragon Blood. It does not need to be specifically her blood or Brand. 

I just literally explained how if Alm could not use Falchion's true power, they would not have been able to defeat Duma. Nor would Rudolf beaten Mila. 

The entire concept of being able to use the weapon is the ability to use its full power. Otherwise, the weapon is just dull. 

3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Are you aware that the power being split up in two dragonstones means that it is still sealed 100% away from their bodies? So no, that's not evidence against being able to split up the power. The point of avoiding degeneration is that the power no longer had to be within their own bodies. It doesn't matter if it was stored away in one stone, or five, or a hundred. What mattered was that the energy was stored away. Which is still done no matter how many stones are used.

Well, in this case then Tiki's situation has little to do with this, then.

Well, there you go. A dragon's power can be split up. It's canon, then.

Not canon yet. That's a bold remark to make. 

I can possibly consider that its just a shard of the dragonstone, but really, the problem is that Kaga never explained fully what he meant by dragonstones. 

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7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I wouldn't need to. The context of the game speaks for itself. The timeline too. The blood pact was to allow someone to be able to wield Falchion. Falchion only works with those with the Brand and has Divine Dragon Blood. It does not need to be specifically her blood or Brand. 

I just literally explained how if Alm could not use Falchion's true power, they would not have been able to defeat Duma. Nor would Rudolf beaten Mila. 

The entire concept of being able to use the weapon is the ability to use its full power. Otherwise, the weapon is just dull. 

Not canon yet. That's a bold remark to make. 

I can possibly consider that its just a shard of the dragonstone, but really, the problem is that Kaga never explained fully what he meant by dragonstones. 

The pact is more like placing a restriction on who can use it, not allowing it to be used at all.

It is canon. It's already shown that a dragon's power can be split up. No need for the remark to be bold.

To be honest, it all depends on how pedantic you are about it. If you have two mounds of sand, and you combine them, you could say you still have two mounds but merged, or just say just just have a single bigger one. You can say a piece of dragonstone is a shard of the main one, or you can say it's a smaller dragonstone of its own. But it also depends on what exctly is the dragonstone. Is it an actual physical device that houses the energy, or is it the energy itself in solid form? Because if it's the latter then saying a "shard" is as easily as saying some energy was siphoned off from the main source and placed in it's own storage. Manaketes are always shown to siphon off just part of the dragonstone's energy when using it. This would be no different, other than what the energy siphoned off is being used for Well, that depends if you think Kaga had to explain it further. Perhaps by saying dragonstone he meant just that.

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2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The pact is more like placing a restriction on who can use it, not allowing it to be used at all.

It is canon. It's already shown that a dragon's power can be split up. No need for the remark to be bold.

To be honest, it all depends on how pedantic you are about it. If you have two mounds of sand, and you combine them, you could say you still have two mounds but merged, or just say just just have a single bigger one. You can say a piece of dragonstone is a shard of the main one, or you can say it's a smaller dragonstone of its own. But it also depends on what exctly is the dragonstone. Is it an actual physical device that houses the energy, or is it the energy itself in solid form? Because if it's the latter then saying a "shard" is as easily as saying some energy was siphoned off from the main source and placed in it's own storage. Well, that depends if you think Kaga had to explain it further. Perhaps by saying dragonstone he meant just that.

Based on how every weapon that has a mentioned restriction is useless to anyone's hands, and anyone that can use it can use it all full power, I think the evidence is much more stacking to what you're saying. So Alm had to still have used all of Falchion's power in the end. 

Yes, because that's a major issue. Even to this day, we have no idea what the Gemstones are. We hear in Awakening that they hold a portion of Naga's power, but did she make them? In which case this means its a major contradiction, as it is stated that the Gemstones have been passed down through the Divine Dragon tribe for generations. I would say that she infused the existing Gemstones with her power at best. 

So I would like a more meaningful and deeper explanation as to what Kaga meant by dragonstones. 

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1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

The point of dragonstones was to avoid degeneration. So they sealed all their power off into it. Saying they can make or separate powers from it is not something that has been established or even implied.

Ok but actually

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Brady x Nah S-Support

Nah: So, where are we headed today, Brady?

Brady: "We" aren't headed anywhere. Were you really planning on following me around all day again?

Nah: Well, of course!

Brady: You don't think that's going a little far? Already told ya I release you from any debt you think you owe and all that malarkey.

Nah: Don't be silly. That's not why at all! It's only natural we should be together. We're a couple.

Brady: A couple of what? ...Er, and since when?

Nah: Well, we spend all this time together, but you say we're not siblings.

Brady: 'Cause we ain't! And what kind of crazy jump gets ya from there to being "a couple"?!

Nah: Haven't you felt all the envious looks around camp? The others can't help but long for the sort of passion we share!

Brady: Gah! IS that why everybody's been leering at me everywhere I go?

Nah: They are NOT leering! ...They're celebrating our beautiful union.

Brady: Ugh, I feel like I'm losing my mind here! There IS no beautiful union! And we ain't a "we"!

Nah: You don't have to shout. ...Do you really hate me that much?

Brady: I never said that!

Nah: Then let's get married!

Brady: Slow down, would ya?! I need a little time to think here!

Nah: You're divorcing me?!

Brady: SLOW DOWN!

Nah: *Sniff* Used up and cast aside... Who will love poor Nah now?

Brady: Nobody used up anybody! Quit sayin' stuff what gives people funny ideas!

Nah: Oh! Remarriage, then?

Brady: I have the worst headache of my life right now...

Nah: Don't overexert yourself, Brady! You're in no condition to weather needless stress. Please, I'm too young to be a widow!

Brady: Just... Can I have a minute here? A quiet one?

Nah: Don't worry, darling. If it comes down to that, I'll use my dragonstone to transfer my own life force to you.

Brady: ...Is that a thing? I didn't know you could do that.

Nah: I've never tried it myself, but I heard my mother talk about it. She said it was the stone's true power. ...Probably?

Brady: What was she, guessing?!

Nah: Even if she were, I'll make it work. I'm prepared to give you half of my life. That's what love means to me.

Brady: Cheese and peanuts, this manakete love is heavy! ...Still, it feels pretty good to know someone cares that much.

Nah: Then let's tell everyone the ceremony's tonight! I always wanted to be an eight o' clock bride!

Brady: Er, there ain't no chance I'm getting you to slow down on this, is there?

Now, there is the possibility that Nowi was just fooling around, but Nowi can actually be quite knowledgeable at times so who knows. At any rate, we can possibly take this as evidence that separating/transfering powers from a Dragonstone is possible, maybe.

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Just now, Armagon said:

Ok but actually

Now, there is the possibility that Nowi was just fooling around, but Nowi can actually be quite knowledgeable at times so who knows. At any rate, we can possibly take this as evidence that separating/transfering powers from a Dragonstone is possible, maybe.

That is a unique thing that I actually completely forgot about. However, this is second hand information that we have no real information about. In fact, if such a thing was true, Tiki and Nowi would have mentioned it in their S supports. Especially Tiki.

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21 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Based on how every weapon that has a mentioned restriction is useless to anyone's hands, and anyone that can use it can use it all full power, I think the evidence is much more stacking to what you're saying. So Alm had to still have used all of Falchion's power in the end. 

Yes, because that's a major issue. Even to this day, we have no idea what the Gemstones are. We hear in Awakening that they hold a portion of Naga's power, but did she make them? In which case this means its a major contradiction, as it is stated that the Gemstones have been passed down through the Divine Dragon tribe for generations. I would say that she infused the existing Gemstones with her power at best. 

So I would like a more meaningful and deeper explanation as to what Kaga meant by dragonstones. 

It doesn't, actually. It goes back to the purpose of the sword. Naga gave away the swords for humans to use them to beat dragons. For the Valentian Falchion, it was done even without expecting Duma and/or Mila would place a brand on them. Heck, Duma placing a brand to restrict its use is a clever move for him, if it means less people capable of using it to kill him, while having ensured that those left that could would be on his side. As it is, Naga giving the sword as-is was already capable of killing them. No brand needed.

Even if the Gemstones aren't Naga's to begin with, the fact she poured power on each of them is also proof that dragons can split up their power.

What else is there to explain. Dragonstones, referred as Orbs to humans, is a dragon's energy in solid form, or a device to store it. What more is needed?

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It doesn't, actually. It goes back to the purpose of the sword. Naga gave away the swords for humans to use them to beat dragons. For the Valentian Falchion, it was done even without expecting Duma and/or Mila would place a brand on them. Heck, Duma placing a brand to restrict its use is a clever move for him, if it means less people capable of using it to kill him, while having ensured that those left that could would be on his side. As it is, Naga giving the sword as-is was already capable of killing them. No brand needed.

Except here's the thing. This blood/Brand lock function existed before Duma even entered Valentia. Meaning that either Naga placed this lock or its an inherent trait. So again, there's still more evidence that this functions the same way as the Awakening Falchion, and the Holy Weapons. And the Archanean Falchion can be considered this too, since only Marth, his father, and Anri were said to be able to wield it. So either you can use 100%, or you can't use it period.

5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Even if the Gemstones aren't Naga's to begin with, the fact she poured power on each of them is also proof that dragons can split up their power.

Naga here is in spirit form, so no telling how that works. Lots of lores were altered by Awakening due to the incident of the First Exalt that has yet to get a proper explanation.

5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

What else is there to explain. Dragonstones, referred as Orbs to humans, is a dragon's energy in solid form, or a device to store it. What more is needed?

The very fact that Naga and 11 other dragons did this. Tiki is the only one that is able to go through an exception of sealing off a different way apart from her dragonstone. Naga took an ethereal form. But the other dragons? Forseti? 

Not to mention, the power boost that the Holy Weapons give is much more powerful than the Starsphere shards from what we've seen.

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8 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Except here's the thing. This blood/Brand lock function existed before Duma even entered Valentia. Meaning that either Naga placed this lock or its an inherent trait. So again, there's still more evidence that this functions the same way as the Awakening Falchion, and the Holy Weapons. And the Archanean Falchion can be considered this too, since only Marth, his father, and Anri were said to be able to wield it. So either you can use 100%, or you can't use it period.

Naga here is in spirit form, so no telling how that works. Lots of lores were altered by Awakening due to the incident of the First Exalt that has yet to get a proper explanation.

The very fact that Naga and 11 other dragons did this. Tiki is the only one that is able to go through an exception of sealing off a different way apart from her dragonstone. Naga took an ethereal form. But the other dragons? Forseti? 

Not to mention, the power boost that the Holy Weapons give is much more powerful than the Starsphere shards from what we've seen.

Was it, though. It doesn't change the fact Naga expected any human to use it, without going through a blood-bind.

Was she in spirit form during the time of the First Exalt, though. She certainly wasn't at any point before that, at the least.

What of it? If any dragon can split off their power, then it stands to reason 11+Naga did this to power up the Jugdrali Holy Weapons. We don't really know anything about them. For all we know, Naga gathered the 11 strongest dragons around aside from her, so they could pour a lot of power to help the humans. Which happened in the form of powering up the weapons of the twelve crusaders. And no, Naga didn't took an ethereal form in Jugdral. Only that of a human maiden. Which all dragons did, take human form.

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1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Was it, though. It doesn't change the fact Naga expected any human to use it, without going through a blood-bind.

There are two reasons why I can think of this happened. One being that her fangs being only be capable of being wielded by those with the Brand and Divine Dragon blood is an inherent trait, presumably because of Naga's incredible powers. The other being that Naga has clairvoyance and knew that a human would be able to use it regardless of the locking. I mean, Mila says that Naga knew that dragons would face ruination and that Falchion was meant to end Duma and Mila in their madness.

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Was she in spirit form during the time of the First Exalt, though. She certainly wasn't at any point before that, at the least.

The First Exalt is the point when many of the lores likely changed. I both want and don't want a game centered on this. Why would I not? Cause my friend and I are already making stuff for a project regarding it.

3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

What of it? If any dragon can split off their power, then it stands to reason 11+Naga did this to power up the Jugdrali Holy Weapons. We don't really know anything about them. For all we know, Naga gathered the 11 strongest dragons around aside from her, so they could pour a lot of power to help the humans. Which happened in the form of powering up the weapons of the twelf crusaders. And no, Naga didn't took an ethereal form in Jugdral. Only that of a human maiden. Which all dragons did, take human form.

Can they? We literally only have Tiki and Naga. Divine Dragons WERE the strongest dragons, and the only tribe that can match them are the Earth Dragons. FE3 has only 3 Divine Dragons left, excluding Tiki, and all the Earth Dragons are sealed away. So there is no such thing as a gathering of the 11 strongest dragons here, because the strongest dragons are no longer around apart from Naga. 

No, I'm not saying Naga had an ethereal form in the Jugdral series. I'm saying that the Gemstone things are likely a case of her ethereal form for all I know. Because before that, they were nothing of the sort. 

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3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

There are two reasons why I can think of this happened. One being that her fangs being only be capable of being wielded by those with the Brand and Divine Dragon blood is an inherent trait, presumably because of Naga's incredible powers. The other being that Naga has clairvoyance and knew that a human would be able to use it regardless of the locking. I mean, Mila says that Naga knew that dragons would face ruination and that Falchion was meant to end Duma and Mila in their madness.

The First Exalt is the point when many of the lores likely changed. I both want and don't want a game centered on this. Why would I not? Cause my friend and I are already making stuff for a project regarding it.

Can they? We literally only have Tiki and Naga. Divine Dragons WERE the strongest dragons, and the only tribe that can match them are the Earth Dragons. FE3 has only 3 Divine Dragons left, excluding Tiki, and all the Earth Dragons are sealed away. So there is no such thing as a gathering of the 11 strongest dragons here, because the strongest dragons are no longer around apart from Naga. 

No, I'm not saying Naga had an ethereal form in the Jugdral series. I'm saying that the Gemstone things are likely a case of her ethereal form for all I know. Because before that, they were nothing of the sort. 

Then why make it out of her fangs, then, if it's too restrictive. The shield wasn't made with a fang, after all.

It goes back to my point: no evidence says they can't. It's not an ability restricted to Divine Dragons. Heck, the fact non Divine Dragons can make dragonstones in the first place, and only siphon a few energy to temporarily transform back, is already evidence they can move the energy around, and not all at once. Yes it can. "Strongest" would be a changing factor. The 11 strongest at the time Naga decided to head to Jugdral. Doesn't have to the same 11 strongest that were back in the war with the Earth Dragons, or the same 11 strongst that were back in the Golden Age of Dragons.

Naga was certainly not ethereal after making the shield, which would involve attaching the orbs to it. If the gemstones had a hand in it, it would be long after her first death.

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1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Then why make it out of her fangs, then, if it's too restrictive. The shield wasn't made with a fang, after all.

The shield actually was made from Naga's fang. Though since its a shield, and doesn't even use its true powers unless all Gemstones are in place, the restriction is much stronger when it was broken apart. 

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It goes back to my point: no evidence says they can't. It's not an ability restricted to Divine Dragons. Heck, the fact non Divine Dragons can make dragonstones in the first place, and only siphon a few energy to temporarily transform back, is already evidence they can move the energy around, and not all at once. Yes it can. "Strongest" would be a changing factor. The 11 strongest at the time Naga decided to head to Jugdral. Doesn't have to the same 11 strongest that were back in the war with the Earth Dragons, or the same 11 strongst that were back in the Golden Age of Dragons.

Naga was certainly not ethereal after making the shield, which would involve attaching the orbs to it. If the gemstones had a hand in it, it would be long after her first death.

The ethereal form likely came during or before the First Exalt, but definitely after the Archanea series. We've got a full 1000 years before it occurs after all.

The blood pact is not something only for Divine Dragons. However, Falchion is unique in that it was created from Naga's fang. That likely makes the weapon already an inherent trait of needing a blood pact to exist. 

And now you proved my point. We can understand Naga being possibly able to, but the other dragons? We have no proof to suggest they can siphon off energy in the way, because Naga and Tiki have always been the unique exceptions. Naga the most at this point. But we have no proof of this siphoning thing being inherent to all dragons. 

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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

The shield actually was made from Naga's fang. Though since its a shield, and doesn't even use its true powers unless all Gemstones are in place, the restriction is much stronger when it was broken apart. 

The ethereal form likely came during or before the First Exalt, but definitely after the Archanea series. We've got a full 1000 years before it occurs after all.

The blood pact is not something only for Divine Dragons. However, Falchion is unique in that it was created from Naga's fang. That likely makes the weapon already an inherent trait of needing a blood pact to exist. 

And now you proved my point. We can understand Naga being possibly able to, but the other dragons? We have no proof to suggest they can siphon off energy in the way, because Naga and Tiki have always been the unique exceptions. Naga the most at this point. But we have no proof of this siphoning thing being inherent to all dragons. 

Is it really stated it was from her fang?

What does Tiki has to do with this? All her energy is in her dragonstone. No evidece it's split up. Also, we do have proof. Dragons can use the energy of their dragonstones to transform back. And if you trust game mechanics, they can use any other dragonstone of their clan (with Divines being capable of using any one). If they couldn't siphon energy, then they wouldn't be able to use their own dragonstone's energy to transform back.

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5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Is it really stated it was from her fang?

What does Tiki has to do with this? All her energy is in her dragonstone. No evidece it's split up. Also, we do have proof. Dragons can use the energy of their dragonstones to transform back. And if you trust game mechanics, they can use any other dragonstone of their clan (with Divines being capable of using any one). If they couldn't siphon energy, then they wouldn't be able to use their own dragonstone's energy to transform back.

I would need to look it up, but I recall it being mentioned to have been made by Naga. 

Tiki is in this because she's the other dragon that needed special measures. For one thing, despite her power sealed up, she needs the completed Shield of Seals to prevent degeneration, something others don't need. The other thing is how in Awakening, she has more power sealed off through a ritual. This is what I meant in how she's one of the exceptions, Naga being the other at this point. 

This argument is basically ultimately a case of proof that it can or cannot be done. Seems neither of us can budge yet.

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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

I would need to look it up, but I recall it being mentioned to have been made by Naga. 

Tiki is in this because she's the other dragon that needed special measures. For one thing, despite her power sealed up, she needs the completed Shield of Seals to prevent degeneration, something others don't need. The other thing is how in Awakening, she has more power sealed off through a ritual. This is what I meant in how she's one of the exceptions, Naga being the other at this point. 

This argument is basically ultimately a case of proof that it can or cannot be done. Seems neither of us can budge yet.

Yes, made by Naga is undisputed. The question is if a fang was involved.

The thing about Tiki is that she's still too young, and too much energy was still left within her to control it at such a young age, that an extra suppresor is needed to avoid her going out of control. That's the whole point of those counter-measures. It's kinda like Anankos. Despite making a dragonstone, he still had enough energy within him that he couldn't avoid degeneration. So this thing has little to do with splitting up power being an exception to her and Naga.

Well, there is proof that it can. My question is why you don't consider dragons moving their energy off their bodies into dragonstones, and absorbing some of it back to temporalily transform back, as proof that they can move their energy around. Dragonstones alone should show it's canon, since otherwise, they'd need something else to extract their own energy. Or are you telling me Naga went with every single dragon to etract their energy into a dragonstone?

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