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Why are Deen's growth rates so low?


DisobeyedCargo
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Kaga wanted the players to choose Sonya, as she actually has a backstory.

To further cement this, Deens map has nothing but myrmidons and mercenaries, while Sonya's map is chop-filled with witches. Guess which one is more fun to play?

In-Universe, I'm going to take a stab that he's seen everything, thus isn't impressed by much, so he has little more to learn. Or he's a slow learner.

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28 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

Kaga wanted the players to choose Sonya, as she actually has a backstory.

To further cement this, Deens map has nothing but myrmidons and mercenaries, while Sonya's map is chop-filled with witches. Guess which one is more fun to play?

In-Universe, I'm going to take a stab that he's seen everything, thus isn't impressed by much, so he has little more to learn. Or he's a slow learner.

To be fair, Deen's much better as a unit if you are playing efficiently.

43 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

I don't get it, he's not super old like Mycen or Nohma, but he has the third worst growths in he game. Why?

Age isn't necessarily the reason considering characters like Arran who have lower growths in the series.

I'd still probably take his growth rates over FE2 Robin who doesn't even have the bases.

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3 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

Kaga wanted the players to choose Sonya, as she actually has a backstory.

To further cement this, Deens map has nothing but myrmidons and mercenaries, while Sonya's map is chop-filled with witches. Guess which one is more fun to play?

In-Universe, I'm going to take a stab that he's seen everything, thus isn't impressed by much, so he has little more to learn. Or he's a slow learner.

The problem with Deen isn't him, but the fact that the developers seem to think that its OK to completely make his backstory Japanese exclusive. Seriously, the only way to learn his backstory is by reading the Valentia Accordion, which is only in Japanese.(which isn't even part of the game, its an optional artbook) He is completely undermined by Sonya as she  seems to be the  only one of the two to have a backstory. His character suffers from this, as he comes across as "Just another Edgy Guy"

Edited by Tuvy
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6 hours ago, Tryhard said:

To be fair, Deen's much better as a unit if you are playing efficiently.

In the remake, sure. I was surprised on how well-rounded and efficient he was when I chose him over Sonya on hard mode.

In the original... I can see we're you're coming from. Being a mercenary with Gaidens growth mechanics helps hims a surprising amount. It's just that Sonya is less of a hassle to get, and being the second best mage in the game makes her the more appealing choice.

3 hours ago, Tuvy said:

The problem with Deen isn't him, but the fact that the developers seem to think that its OK to completely make his backstory Japanese exclusive. Seriously, the only way to learn his backstory is by reading the Valentia Accordion, which is only in Japanese.(which isn't even part of the game, its an optional artbook) He is completely undermined by Sonya as she  seems to be the  only one of the two to have a backstory. His character suffers from this, as he comes across as "Just another Edgy Guy"

I was one of the first people on that topic, actually. I saw what they were trying to do with him, with Dean looking and acting like a generic edgy guy, but with a bit more savviness than what meets the eye (shown in his talks with Celca). They didn't give him enough chances to speak to show this other side more.

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9 hours ago, Hawkwing said:

Kaga wanted the players to choose Sonya, as she actually has a backstory.

If that's the case, then they shouldn't have made her optional and actually give her some plot relevance with Jeddah, even if it's early 90s level of plot. Seriously, the player doesn't even learn she's related to the villains until her ending!

To further cement this, Deens map has nothing but myrmidons and mercenaries, while Sonya's map is chop-filled with witches. Guess which one is more fun to play?

I'm guessing the myrmidons? But I actually find battling the Witches better in that chapter, because they all just warp to you in the first few turns meaning you don't have to try and cross that desert bridge. You're kind of at the mercy of the RNG with the witches (which is bad design), but they are weak enough to be tanked. And I'd take my chances with that over legitimately doing a desert map.

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Genny's summoning art saved me on Deen's map in Echoes. He attacked the summons instead of any of my peeps. And then I could gang up on him.

It's probably because canonically he dies, like others have said.

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53 minutes ago, Jotari said:

If that's the case, then they shouldn't have made her optional and actually give her some plot relevance with Jeddah, even if it's early 90s level of plot. Seriously, the player doesn't even learn she's related to the villains until her ending!

Sonya is not alone in the fact that she gains a shred of character in their ending. It's only confirmed that Mae and Boey are bickering partners after you beat the game, as Mae's recruitment quote could be interpreted as simple joke at Boey's expense. It's also never hinted else where except in her ending that Genny had an love interest.

Being perfectly honest, I still don't understand what the thought process was behind Deens growth rates. He's got good bases, sure, but why does he have the third lowest amount when Nohma is a crutch in case your mages got RNG screwed and Mycen is literally the last character you recruit character, and doesn't need the growth rates? Especially when his counterpart is the second best mage on Celica's path and has good growths.

53 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm guessing the myrmidons? But I actually find battling the Witches better in that chapter, because they all just warp to you in the first few turns meaning you don't have to try and cross that desert bridge. You're kind of at the mercy of the RNG with the witches (which is bad design), but they are weak enough to be tanked. And I'd take my chances with that over legitimately doing a desert map.

The mercenaries themselves are pushovers, but I always found Deen to be an interesting boss. The desert affects him as much as it does your own units, and his brave sword means that attacking him directly is very risky, yet attacking him purely with Leon is inefficient, so you have to balance between both methods. That, and Kamui critted him in a do-or-die situation on my first playthrough of SoV, making it more memorable for me.

That, and I honestly found Soyna's map to be boring, but I got RNG blessed because only three of the mages warped during the entire fight, and Sonya herself can be cheesed with Leon. I remember reading in a lets-play of the original game that if you get unlucky on Sonya's map, you can loose your entire army in 4-5 turns.

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I always saw Sonya vs. Deen as just Bases vs. Growths. Deen has godly bases and bad growths while Sonya has meh bases and decent growths. 

Too bad they made Sonya the worst class in the game and Deen the best. 

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I mean, he didn't really need growths in the long run since DFs were overpowered in Gaiden. Just promote him, slap the Shadow Sword on him (Which he is immune to hanks to DF nulifying the curse in Gaiden) and bam (Or just keep his Brave Sword since the Shadow Sword only has 70% hit). But also he was a late game prepromote 5 levels away from promotion with competent bases that would easily carry him through the game.

Though Sonya is objectively the better unit in Gaiden due to having Excalibur and she actually gets Seraphim in this game (Albeit late at level 14).

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2 hours ago, Mega Koopa X said:

I always saw Sonya vs. Deen as just Bases vs. Growths. Deen has godly bases and bad growths while Sonya has meh bases and decent growths. 

Too bad they made Sonya the worst class in the game and Deen the best. 

When did they make Sonya a Soldier? 

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1 hour ago, Slumber said:

When did they make Sonya a Soldier? 

Soldiers are pretty solid on Alm's side, they get access to Ridersbanes and Javelins on promotion (and Gradivus if you care about that). Barons are also really good because of their huge defense and attack. With the large abundance of physical enemies compared to magic enemies their res isn't much of a problem. Their biggest issue is their movement which is mitigated easily by warp. The only really bad Soldier/Knight/Baron is Valbar, and that's just because he's on Celica's side. The only niche female mages really have are being able to bypass enemy terrain bonuses plus a few decent spells. They have low move (which again can be mitigated by warp so whatever), are really frail, have low hp so they lose hp quickly from their own spells, and unlike male mages who can become nice staffbots at level 12, female mages don't promote until level 20. Without grinding, the only female mage you'll you might be able to promote (excluding Celica) is Mae, which falls off by the end of chapter 3 - mid chapter 4.

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