How do you think Dark Magic works?

[DisobeyedCargo]

I saw a couple of posts in the "why are RES growths so low most of the time" thread that made me ponder this question.

my personal though was that it taped into the persons more negative emotions to draw forth powers (a la the dark side of the force), rather than relying on more natural means like the other schools of magic.

[Ycine]

If I remember correctly, Canas said that the Dark Magic was an art that was older than Anima and Light Magic.

So I'd say it's actually a magic that is summoning energy/matter from a time where nothing existed except for that "dark" element.

It is later called Dark Magic because unable to fully grasp what it is people simply refer it as Dark because of it's appearance.

 

[Reality]

I like to think that Anima is done through study and incantation, light is done through faith, and dark is done by environment draining like in the dark sun setting.

[Dragoncat]

It might be kinda like, poisonous stuff in the air that drains life force or whatever. Light is LASERS lol. Anima is whatever element it is.

[Etrurian emperor]

Depends on the continent.

There's only one dark spell in Archenea and that one comes from the Dark Sphere. We can safely assume that harnessing the power of the Dark Sphere is how dark magic works in Archenea.

In Jugdral dark magic likely comes from Loptyr. Only Lopt priests use dark magic and the spells are named after the children of Loki which the name Loptyr supposedly is a variation of. 

Dunno how it works in Elibe though I doubt it stems from negative emotions. Canas and Sophia are quite meek while Raigh wants to protect others so they're not exactly negative nancy's. 

In Tellius dark magic comes from parasitic spirits living in  your body. You let them in and they will let you use dark magic.

In Ylisse dark magic may be leftovers from Grima since Plegia is the country of dark magic. Here it probably does draw on negative emotions because a boy scout like Ricken can't use it.

Dark magic doesn't really need explaining in Fateslandia because Fateslandia doesn't have dark magic, no matter how anima mages chose to call themselves. I suppose there's Leo's tome. That could have been created by that dusk dragon Norh supposedly worships. 

Edited April 23, 2018 by Etrurian emperor

[X-Naut]

It depends on the setting, but I personally think it's the "other side" to Light magic, drawing from the human spirit but in a different way. (Elibe has it as faith vs knowledge.) With Nosferatu flip-flopping between the two there's gotta be some connection.

[Wanderer-Of-Fates]

3 hours ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

my personal though was that it taped into the persons more negative emotions to draw forth powers (a la the dark side of the force), rather than relying on more natural means like the other schools of magic.

I agree with this! Makes sense to draw from negative emotions to me. You need to gat fired up to use dark magic!

[DisobeyedCargo]

59 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Depends on the continent.

There's only one dark spell in Archenea and that one comes from the Dark Sphere. We can safely assume that harnessing the power of the Dark Sphere is how dark magic works in Archenea.

In Jugdral dark magic likely comes from Loptyr. Only Lopt priests use dark magic and the spells are named after the children of Loki which the name Loptyr supposedly is a variation of. 

Dunno how it works in Elibe though I doubt it stems from negative emotions. Canas and Sophia are quite meek while Raigh wants to protect others so they're not exactly negative nancy's. 

In Tellius dark magic comes from parasitic spirits living in  your body. You let them in and they will let you use dark magic.

In Ylisse dark magic may be leftovers from Grima since Plegia is the country of dark magic. Here it probably does draw on negative emotions because a boy scout like Ricken can't use it.

Dark magic doesn't really need explaining in Fateslandia because Fateslandia doesn't have dark magic, no matter how anima mages chose to call themselves. I suppose there's Leo's tome. That could have been created by that dusk dragon Norh supposedly worships. 

Isn't nosferatu in fates though?

 

[Nym]

For me, Dark magic is like the forbidden art of magic which explain why most of the time, you only get few people that can use Dark magic and you face plenty who can use them.

That's why it always the most powerful: it's powerful bit it drains the sanity of most of the user. That's why some don't act like normal individuals and are called crazy.

[NinjaMonkey]

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

In Tellius dark magic comes from parasitic spirits living in  your body. You let them in and they will let you use dark magic.

How is it "parasitic" exactly? Radiant Dawn never shows any relationship of this sort.

Quote

In Ylisse dark magic may be leftovers from Grima since Plegia is the country of dark magic. Here it probably does draw on negative emotions because a boy scout like Ricken can't use it.

Miriel and Libra don't seem the type to have negative emotions. Especially Miriel, since she hardly expresses any emotions at all. Also, Henry is always laughing - not what I'd call a "negative emotion".

Edited April 23, 2018 by NinjaMonkey

[Dismissed]

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Dark magic doesn't really need explaining in Fateslandia because Fateslandia doesn't have dark magic, no matter how anima mages chose to call themselves. I suppose there's Leo's tome. That could have been created by that dusk dragon Norh supposedly worships. 

Isn't Brynhildr more of an ecology textbook (anima)? Its spell animation makes trees magically sprout from the ground. That seems more like nature (anima) to me than darkness.

[DisobeyedCargo]

1 minute ago, Purple Mage said:

Isn't Brynhildr more of an ecology textbook (anima)? Its spell animation makes trees magically sprout from the ground. That seems more like nature (anima) to me than darkness.

I feel like you'd know this since your a mage

perhapes dark magic is also kinda like anima in that mastery comes from intense studying like @Reality said, only from studying a different source.

[Dismissed]

Just now, DisobeyedCargo said:

I feel like you'd know this since your a mage

perhapes dark magic is also kinda like anima in that mastery comes from intense studying like @Reality said, only from studying a different source.

Heh, I dabble in many schools of magic, but mostly Destruction, Restoration, Anima, and Healing Staves.

In FE8, Knoll in his supports claims that the power of dark magic comes from knowledge, to contrast from light magic's faith. For some reason, FE7's translation viewed anima as the "magic of truth", which probably means that anima is all about knowing the universal truths; in other words, the natural laws of the universe that stay constant. Anima mages use the truth in nature to turn physics against their opponents.

So if we try to link Elibe and Magvel's theories together, it goes somewhat like this: Light (and presumably staves) is powered by faith in the gods and saints (or not in Kenneth and Riev's case), Anima is powered by the natural truths of the universe, and Dark is powered by knowledge of the elder arts.

I think that Dark magic in the GBA games is basically all about using the lack of light to deal damage, and drain energy from things such as the surroundings (for most spells) or from living beings (Nosferatu and quintessense). It was ancient because it was the first type of magic learnt by humans.

[DisobeyedCargo]

17 minutes ago, Purple Mage said:

Heh, I dabble in many schools of magic, but mostly Destruction, Restoration, Anima, and Healing Staves.

In FE8, Knoll in his supports claims that the power of dark magic comes from knowledge, to contrast from light magic's faith. For some reason, FE7's translation viewed anima as the "magic of truth", which probably means that anima is all about knowing the universal truths; in other words, the natural laws of the universe that stay constant. Anima mages use the truth in nature to turn physics against their opponents.

So if we try to link Elibe and Magvel's theories together, it goes somewhat like this: Light (and presumably staves) is powered by faith in the gods and saints (or not in Kenneth and Riev's case), Anima is powered by the natural truths of the universe, and Dark is powered by knowledge of the elder arts.

I think that Dark magic in the GBA games is basically all about using the lack of light to deal damage, and drain energy from things such as the surroundings (for most spells) or from living beings (Nosferatu and quintessense). It was ancient because it was the first type of magic learnt by humans.

Wait, if presumably staves are powered by faith in deities, then why are dark magic classes often able to use them. They don't seem to be practitioners of said faith. Unless I'm wrong 

[SoulWeaver]

2 hours ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Isn't nosferatu in fates though?

Yeah, so is Goetia if memory serves. It's possible Ginnungagap falls into the same sphere as well - Light or Dark, it sure doesn't look like Anima.

[Dismissed]

5 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Wait, if presumably staves are powered by faith in deities, then why are dark magic classes often able to use them. They don't seem to be practitioners of said faith. Unless I'm wrong 

Perhaps staves are some sort of neutral territory? Maybe staves are imbued with alchemical properties. Alchemy can be a middle ground by having faith in the knowledge of the interaction of the truths of nature. For example, an alchemist knows the truths of nature, and applies knowledge to nature by mixing it together, and believing that it will work. Something like that.

[Etrurian emperor]

3 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

How is it "parasitic" exactly? Radiant Dawn never shows any relationship of this sort.

Its the game before that. Calil gives Tormod a little lecture about why he should never make a spirit charm pact which it turns out is where Pelleas got his magic from.  

Calill: Some would say so. Magic comes from these spirits–from their interactions with the natural world. If you take that power into your body, your magic will see a dramatic and powerful improvement. In plain language, you turn your body into bait. You get better magic, and the spirit gets…you.
Tormod: W-what? It…it EATS you?
Calill: As I understand it…the spirit will slowly consume your soul in exchange for essence. So I suggest you not make such a bargain unless you’re absolutely prepared.

3 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Miriel and Libra don't seem the type to have negative emotions. Especially Miriel, since she hardly expresses any emotions at all. Also, Henry is always laughing - not what I'd call a "negative emotion"

I'm not sure how canon their use of dark magic is supposed to be but doesn't Libra have plenty of negative experience to draw on? He says he's been mistreated. As for Henry, sure he laughs a lot but the topic of his jests is usually slaughter and blood. 

Edited April 23, 2018 by Etrurian emperor

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 4/23/2018 at 9:30 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

There's only one dark spell in Archenea and that one comes from the Dark Sphere. We can safely assume that harnessing the power of the Dark Sphere is how dark magic works in Archenea.

You forgot that Swarm exists, which Gotoh of all people joins with, FE3 also had Dulam, a drop to 1 HP tome. 

Elibean and Magvelian Dark Magic seem to operate according to similar principles- pseudo-scientific knowledge, that is what Niime and Canas and Knoll are all obsessed with. And Knoll has his knowledge vs. faith support with Natasha, a Light user.

The Dark Magic of Formortiis is different than this "heroic" kind Knoll and Lyon pre-corruption pursued, not sure what it is. Bramimond also shows that for Elibe at least, there is self-sacrifice involved in Dark Magic, his legendary feat was sacrificing his sense of self to the darkness for self-gain, but not becoming a wild husk like Nergal, nor a vegetable like Canas's brothers. Or so is how I see it.

Thus in Elibe, Dark is "science", Light is faith, and what is Anima? Given Athos's Forblaze is called the "Infernal Truth", I would say philosophy, which is neither science nor faith, but like them both an intellectual pursuit. Athos being able to use all three types so well is the result of his long life, legendary powers, and being well versed most likely in all three fields, although philosophy would be his favorite/best subject.

Do note that Anima in Elibe does involve self-sacrifice as well, since Erk nearly drains himself to death and Pent has give him some of his own internal magic energies in their B support.

 

On 4/23/2018 at 3:37 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

Its the game before that. Calil gives Tormod a little lecture about why he should never make a spirit charm pact which it turns out is where Pelleas got his magic from.

Ironically, we see Anima Spirits in RD, but never Dark ones, though to be fair- if Dark is related to chaos, then it's explicable why Ashera wouldn't have any around, if they exist.

It would also explain why so few Druids exist, few would want the stigma of practicing magics related to the Dark God. And this is borne out in Ashera using all Light Magic, while plans for Dark Judge attacks, and a mass Berserk spell (Berserk and chaos go hand in hand in Tellius) were ultimately scrapped.

Also, maybe it was just for gameplay, but Pelleas can use Thunder too. Though that does not explain Izuka, Veyona and other generic Druids locked to just Dark.

[Etrurian emperor]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Though that does not explain Izuka, Veyona and other generic Druids locked to just Dark.

Izuka selling his soul to parasite spirits FOR SCIENCE sounds pretty in character actually. As for Veyona in the others. I think we don't need to give them to much attention considering its just minor boss and about four dark mages in the lava caves. 

[Emperor Hardin]

5 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ironically, we see Anima Spirits in RD, but never Dark ones, though to be fair- if Dark is related to chaos, then it's explicable why Ashera wouldn't have any around, if they exist.

It would also explain why so few Druids exist, few would want the stigma of practicing magics related to the Dark God. And this is borne out in Ashera using all Light Magic, while plans for Dark Judge attacks, and a mass Berserk spell (Berserk and chaos go hand in hand in Tellius) were ultimately scrapped.

Also, maybe it was just for gameplay, but Pelleas can use Thunder too. Though that does not explain Izuka, Veyona and other generic Druids locked to just Dark.

My guess is the spirits devouring the user's soul is mostly superstition, but it can be too much for some people. Hence not everyone can be a spirit charmer.

There does seem to be a Light=Order and Dark=Chaos thematic in Tellius. Even Micaiah has a dark affinity.

Funnily enough, Izuka's class, Summoner, is statewise, the promoted form of Druid.

4 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Izuka selling his soul to parasite spirits FOR SCIENCE sounds pretty in character actually. As for Veyona in the others. I think we don't need to give them to much attention considering its just minor boss and about four dark mages in the lava caves. 

Veyona is depicted as a levelheaded and noble opponent, so I think theres more to Dark Magic then just selling your soul. After all, Yune is associated with it.

I still imagine not just everyone has what it takes to be a spirit charmer though.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[Interdimensional Observer]

34 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

There does seem to be a Light=Order and Dark=Chaos thematic in Tellius. Even Micaiah has a dark affinity.

This also comes off to me as a bit of a jab at Deidre, Julia, and Sara, the characters from Jugdral whom Micaiah visually, gameplay-wise, and thematically very much resembles. Deidre has that whole Loptyr blood thing, which is a dark "affinity" so to speak. Julia is secretly a Loptyrian princess, and Sara is the granddaughter of Manfroy, leader of the Loptyr Cult.

 

I also just remembered this wonderful quip from Blazing concerning Dark Magic:

Spoiler

Teodor:
“Yes. It’s the fate of those who study dark magic. If you covet the dark, you must enter it of your own free will. You must erase yourself and become an empty vessel. Only then will you be able to receive the dark and master it. If your disposition is weak, the dark will overwhelm you. You will be…lost… …Ofttimes, you will forget why you seek the power to begin with. Only a few people ever gain true power. To win such a prize, one’s self is a small and insignificant sacrifice.”

Eliwood:
“……”

Teodor:
“I’ve heard rumors… Bramimond, one of the eight legends, devoted himself entirely to the dark. All emotion, all memory… dissolved in a river of dark. That is how he received the power to best dragons.”

Although the rumors of Brammy are partly wrong, he still has his memories, or can at least retain the ones he has made since he gained his powers during the Scouring, though his emotions are now subject to what others present to him. His will is still his own importantly. That he gave up "just" his emotions is evidence of his greatness, when so many others lose so much more and get far less out of Dark Magic. This is why I am his biggest fan.