2018/19 NFL Season (the Buffalo Bills are worse than pizza with pineapple on it)

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Life said:

You are unappreciative of how good the Steelers are.

Your analogy sucks because you actually don't have a right to be disappointed in your team unless they are terrible because they're not winning EVERYTHING.

Except they are not good right now. I very well have a right to be disappointed in my team. We have a losing record.

Wait, you think I want to win every single game? What? Do you think I'm stupid? Winning every single game is impossible. But the Steelers are repeatedly losing right now and due to reasons that seem to me to be on coaching.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Anacybele

[NoirCore]

20 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

It's not "morally wrong" just because you disagree with it.

I'm not mad because we're not winning a SB. I'm mad because this team keeps getting worse because of the coaching.

Don't give me that bullshit, Life. You're allowed to be disappointed about your own team if you want. Just because you're worse off doesn't mean someone else can't be upset about how their team's doing. Would you say someone who had their favorite video game stolen shouldn't be upset simply because someone else lost their whole house in the recent hurricane? No, because that makes no sense. One is worse off, but both are allowed to be upset. It doesn't make either side wrong.

Life is not telling you to not be upset.

Life is telling you that your reason for being upset is wrong of you.

And a house is not comparable to supporting a team in a sport where them losing does not affect your life (unless you gambled, but I doubt you even do, and that's not even your reason). If you think those two are alike enough to be compared in an analogy, then I can only facepalm. You can't even compare a video game to that, either.

Besides, you should know how rough it is. Like me, aren't you a Pirates fan? We don't get into the playoffs often, and haven't gone far. Never mind the losing season streak before that.

Your logic is morally wrong and unreasonable. Thus, we are judging you as we are. Not because you are upset, but because the reason you are upset is bad to justify.

You are holding the Steelers to high expectations and are hurting yourself by doing that. A losing record where we are one loss below a non-losing record? Boo hoo, worse has happened. And two losses is not "repeatedly".

[Anacybele]

9 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

Life is not telling you to not be upset.

Life is telling you that your reason for being upset is wrong of you.

And a house is not comparable to supporting a team in a sport where them losing does not affect your life (unless you gambled, but I doubt you even do, and that's not even your reason). If you think those two are alike enough to be compared in an analogy, then I can only facepalm. You can't even compare a video game to that, either.

Besides, you should know how rough it is. Like me, aren't you a Pirates fan? We don't get into the playoffs often, and haven't gone far. Never mind the losing season streak before that.

Your logic is morally wrong and unreasonable. Thus, we are judging you as we are. Not because you are upset, but because the reason you are upset is bad to justify.

You are holding the Steelers to high expectations and are hurting yourself by doing that. A losing record where we are one loss below a non-losing record? Boo hoo, worse has happened. And two losses is not "repeatedly".

He basically is though.

And I'm telling you that just because you disagree with my opinion doesn't make it wrong.

And the point flew right over your head here, I see.

Nope. Because they suck and I'm not into watching baseball. But mostly the latter.

Again with calling me wrong just because you disagree. Can't you fucking stop? I'm starting to feel ashamed for rooting for the same team as you.

I am not. You act like I want them to win every single game and SB. I don't. I just want to see this team win one more with the talented players that they have. But I believe poor coaching is holding them back. Ben doesn't have many years left, and eventually, AB won't either. And after they go, this team will go into complete rebuild mode and who knows how long it'll be until we even see the playoffs at that point.

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Anacybele

[NoirCore]

19 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

He basically is though.

And I'm telling you that just because you disagree with my opinion doesn't make it wrong.

And the point flew right over your head here, I see.

Nope. Because they suck and I'm not into watching baseball. But mostly the latter.

Again with calling me wrong just because you disagree. Can't you fucking stop? I'm starting to feel ashamed for rooting for the same team as you.

I am not. You act like I want them to win every single game and SB. I don't. I just want to see this team win one more with the talented players that the have. But I believe poor coaching is holding them back. Ben doesn't have many years left, and eventually, AB won't either. And after they go, this team will go into complete rebuild mode and who knows how long it'll be until we even see the playoffs at that point.

 

He basically is not, though.

You say it flies over our heads, yet it flies back over you more in that...

...your REASONING is what is wrong, not your opinion. Your REASONING and your opinion are not necessarily the same. Your REASONING is what leads to your opinion.

If you start to feel ashamed rooting for the same team as me, then tough luck. Maybe you can root for someone else if one fellow Steelers fan contradicting you repulses you as much as not going far into the playoffs. Since you already are moping over having one loss more than the amount of wins, go ahead and root for the Panthers. You like them, don't you? I heard they have one more win than they have losses. Sounds lovely, no?

I'd never be ashamed of being a Steelers, Penguins or Pirates fan just because there are other fans of the same team who are biased and rude. Every fanbase has a bunch of them.

[Life]

25 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

He basically is though.

And I'm telling you that just because you disagree with my opinion doesn't make it wrong.

And the point flew right over your head here, I see.

Nope. Because they suck and I'm not into watching baseball. But mostly the latter.

Again with calling me wrong just because you disagree. Can't you fucking stop? I'm starting to feel ashamed for rooting for the same team as you.

I am not. You act like I want them to win every single game and SB. I don't. I just want to see this team win one more with the talented players that they have. But I believe poor coaching is holding them back. Ben doesn't have many years left, and eventually, AB won't either. And after they go, this team will go into complete rebuild mode and who knows how long it'll be until we even see the playoffs at that point.

 

You could ask me what I'm saying but I realize that it's easier for you to project. In case you were wondering, NoirCore is exactly right (Freudian slip).

The bold is important. Of course you should want them to win every single game. Your problem is that you expect them to, no matter how much you claim you don't.

How do I know this? Because it is Week 5, the Steelers are 1-2-1 and you have already called for the entire coaching staff to be fired and the owners to sell the team.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Life

[Anacybele]

6 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

He basically is not, though.

You say it flies over our heads, yet it flies back over you more in that...

...your REASONING is what is wrong, not your opinion. Your REASONING and your opinion are not necessarily the same. Your REASONING is what leads to your opinion.

If you start to feel ashamed rooting for the same team as me, then tough luck. Maybe you can root for someone else if one fellow Steelers fan contradicting you repulses you as much as not going far into the playoffs. Since you already are moping over having one loss more than the amount of wins, go ahead and root for the Panthers. You like them, don't you? I heard they have one more win than they have losses. Sounds lovely, no?

I'd never be ashamed of being a Steelers, Penguins or Pirates fan just because there are other fans of the same team who are biased and rude. Every fanbase has a bunch of them.

Using the same words I just did against you to go against me, how smart... Doesn't change anything though.

And...uh, that's the same thing. I have my reasons for my opinion, so if you say my reasons are wrong, you're saying my opinion is wrong too which makes zero sense.

Okay, how about this. I wish you didn't root for any of the same teams I do.

Oh, and yeah, I do like the Panthers. But I'm not so sure they're great right now either. That remains to be seen for me, but I'll be keeping watch.

8 minutes ago, Life said:

How do I know this? Because it is Week 5, the Steelers are 1-2-1 and you have already called for the entire coaching staff to be fired and the owners to sell the team.

Because of things that have happened in past seasons too, not just this one. This one is just the last straw because it shows that the team's only been getting worse, not better. I already said this.

[-Cynthia-]

I don't necessarily disagree with the notion that the Steelers should move on from Tomlin if this season goes poorly enough. Andy Reid was a great coach for the Eagles, but I don't think it was in their best interest to keep him on indefinitely for a similar example (Reid>Tomlin IMO but close enough).

However, I think their problems extend beyond coaching. Their defense is pretty bad and probably just isn't as talented as some Steelers fans think it is, coaching aside. Ben is getting older and his retirement is probably 1-2 years away, if not at the end of this season. There's also the whole Le'veon Bell mess. The franchise has an inevitable rebuilding process ahead and maybe a fresh face is the better option for that.

Edited October 4, 2018 by -Cynthia-

[NoirCore]

23 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Using the same words I just did against you to go against me, how smart... Doesn't change anything though.

And...uh, that's the same thing. I have my reasons for my opinion, so if you say my reasons are wrong, you're saying my opinion is wrong too which makes zero sense.

Okay, how about this. I wish you didn't root for any of the same teams I do.

Because of things that have happened in past seasons too, not just this one. This one is just the last straw because it shows that the team's only been getting worse, not better. I already said this.

Not like your remark "he basically did" proved anything in itself.

Moral opinions, depending on what they are, are considered wrong or right. The "it's just my opinion" excuse does not work for them.

Ok. I don't care about your wish. I'm staying a Steelers fan, and you'll just have to deal with it like I am with you being a Steelers fan...not that I brought it up.

Also, from 2015-2017, our record got better. That's blatantly contradictory that we've been getting "worse" in that case. And 1-2-1's arguably better than being 4-5 in 2016 thanks to a 4-game losing streak...hey, didn't we make the playoffs that year and get to the AFC Title Game, only losing to the SB Champs?

Edited October 4, 2018 by NoirCore

[Lord Raven]

1 hour ago, Life said:

You know, fanbases that don't get to win any championships and deal with heartbreak more often than the Steelers just simply lose?

Chiefs won Super Bowl 4.

They've won like 4 playoff games since.

 

 

Anyway, teams have to rebuild. Only the Patriots have bucked this trend, because their rebuilding years (2009-2013) were still competitive as fuck. Ravens missed the playoffs the last 3 years because our roster was full of holes after the Super Bowl win and we had to clear out cap. Our drafting had gone downhill and we had to re-evaluate, and many of our players started getting old and injured. Our QB also had a torn ACL/MCL and last year had horrible back pain. It's been beautiful to see the fruits of the rebuild, since we are looking like a legitimate Top 10 team.

I'm still an Orioles fan and we won 47 out of 162 games, a .290 win percent, due to bad contracts, injuries, and bad drafting.

Also, Tomlin's a more relaxed coach as a whole and it seems like many of the players (including Ben Roethlisberger who's been whiny ever since they drafted Rudolph) are getting old and need a change of environment. But then again, I've been saying the same shit about the Steelers going downhill in quite a few of the last 5 years and they still made the playoffs so what more do you want... They really haven't had a rebuilding phase except in the late 90s (and 2012-2013 I guess, but they were still 8-8) so this kind of thing was inevitable.

 

Either way, it's really bad commitment to claim fandom when the team's good and to boycott your team when they're bad. That's the morality that people are attacking.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Lord Raven

[Moblin Major General]

I am the opposite of Ana. I want Tennessee to be consistent when it hasn't been since the end of the Fisher era. 2 shitty QBs and 3 shitty coaches later, we're a good looking team with a competent coach. We spent too long in rebuild, so hopefully we can keep going to playoffs from here on out.

[Anacybele]

9 hours ago, NoirCore said:

Not like your remark "he basically did" proved anything in itself.

Moral opinions, depending on what they are, are considered wrong or right. The "it's just my opinion" excuse does not work for them.

Also, from 2015-2017, our record got better. That's blatantly contradictory that we've been getting "worse" in that case. And 1-2-1's arguably better than being 4-5 in 2016 thanks to a 4-game losing streak...hey, didn't we make the playoffs that year and get to the AFC Title Game, only losing to the SB Champs?

And I still have no idea what "moral" opinions you're talking about. Also, an opinion is an opinion, they're neither wrong nor right.

Hey, didn't we play so god awful in that game that it looked like we didn't even deserve to be there? Oh yeah, we did. Came unprepared and just played like shit and got blown out. That. Is. On. Coaching. Not to mention in the divisional game before that, we only got FGs, no TDs. That was bull too. Also, that tie was to the crappy Browns and both losses were to teams we should be better than. Playing down to the competition yet again, which is again, due to poor coaching. When will you get this?!

Edited October 4, 2018 by Anacybele

[Lord Raven]

Ana, people are trying to have a calm and rational conversation with you and you're throwing a tantrum. It's not helping your case.

[NoirCore]

2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

And I still have no idea what "moral" opinions you're talking about. Also, an opinion is an opinion, they're neither wrong nor right.

Hey, didn't we play so god awful in that game that it looked like we didn't even deserve to be there? Oh yeah, we did. Came unprepared and just played like shit and got blown out. That. Is. On. Coaching. Not to mention in the divisional game before that, we only got FGs, no TDs. That was bull too. Also, that tie was to the crappy Browns and both losses were to teams we should be better than. Playing down to the competition yet again, which is again, due to poor coaching. When will you get this?!

"Using the same words I used against you to go against me, how smart..." Your own words, which you ironically defy now. Hmm.

You say "coaching did this, coaching did that" but don't explain in detail that I feel like you're trying to avoid blaming the players and taking the easy approach. We would have beaten the Browns had our kicker been more accurate; that's not something you can easily diagnose as a coaching problem. As for both of our losses, your "we should be better than" claim seems to be fueled by blatant bias and hunger for winning when you consider that the Chiefs are undefeated and the Ravens have a solid winning record bolstered by a huge blowout, even if it was against the Bills. And don't tell me with confidence Tomlin is the reason our star RB is not playing and our star WR is overreacting to a loss. I'm not getting it because I'm not trusting you get it yourself; you only think you get it, and that's why we criticize you for thinking changing the whole staff after two losses to very solid teams is idiotic.

Also, you say that like we got blown out. A 20-point deficit, yes, but still not as exaggerated as you make it out to be. Regardless, it's still a playoff win-hungry remark from you, made because of your high expectations.

And if an opinion is an opinion...then I suppose it's not morally wrong for a witness to hide vital information to a case to a judge? Because from what I know of society, that's clearly wrong. Oh, but it's just an opinion, right? So it's okay! Oh, and stealing art? That's morally wrong-no wait, that's just an opinion too. So that's okay as well! ...not.

Your opinion we question is not comparable to liking a color or a food, which are indeed just opinions; trivial ones, at that. If the basis behind your reasoning is biased (which we heavily suspect), then it's morally wrong and not trivial. "It's just an opinion" is not a valid "get out of the debate" card here.

3 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

Ana, people are trying to have a calm and rational conversation with you and you're throwing a tantrum. It's not helping your case.

Well, I have been getting a little aggressive myself, but yeah, this.

[Lord Raven]

It's also hard for me to grasp your frustration, because I fucking love the Ravens even though we've won the division only five times ever and missed the playoffs three years in a row. I've been blessed with a team that had 7 playoff trips in 10 years and 10 playoff wins out of that with a whopping 8 on the road. I will brag to my dying day that Joe Flacco alone holds the record for most consecutive playoff games with 2+ TDs, most road playoff wins and he had the greatest super bowl run of all time, despite his last three years being bad statistically. John Harbaugh is a fucking baller despite missing the playoffs the last three years.

But I'm also gonna acknowledge that the last three years were a necessary sacrifice for a team that might finally be great again. There were plenty of good and bad moments but I'm sticking with it nmw.

It's just crazy to me that you're willing to claim 6 super bowl wins and Ben roethlisberger records but the moment they drop two and a half games you think fandom is pointless and that the Steelers we're never worth rooting for. The Steelers have been to four super bowls in your lifetime, my team has been to two and been knocked out three times in the playoffs by your team. Shit happens and this is part of the reason people hate the Steelers so much -- the fans that call for a firing because the team isn't up to their standards.

I, as a division rivals, would absolutely love for the Rooneys to sell the team and to fire Tomlin. Take that for what it's worth. Having that said, you know very well by now that "it's just my opinion" isn't a valid defense on serenes.

 

Now, I'm sick of dealing with drama, which Patriots RB will score like 4 rush TDs on the Colts tonight?

[Anacybele]

27 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

Ana, people are trying to have a calm and rational conversation with you and you're throwing a tantrum. It's not helping your case.

Except I don't see any tantrums from anyone? No one's yelling or screaming or whining or crying. This is meant to be a rational and calm conversation just as you say.

28 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

You say "coaching did this, coaching did that" but don't explain in detail that I feel like you're trying to avoid blaming the players and taking the easy approach. We would have beaten the Browns had our kicker been more accurate; that's not something you can easily diagnose as a coaching problem. As for both of our losses, your "we should be better than" claim seems to be fueled by blatant bias and hunger for winning when you consider that the Chiefs are undefeated and the Ravens have a solid winning record bolstered by a huge blowout, even if it was against the Bills. And don't tell me with confidence Tomlin is the reason our star RB is not playing and our star WR is overreacting to a loss. I'm not getting it because I'm not trusting you get it yourself; you only think you get it, and that's why we criticize you for thinking changing the whole staff after two losses to very solid teams is idiotic.

Because I've seen little reason to blame the players. Yes, Boswell should've been more accurate on that kick, but we wouldn't have needed to kick any game winning FGs if the rest of the team hadn't blown a fucking 17 point lead. The Steelers keep forgetting that a game lasts 60 minutes, not 30, and aren't closing up a game they should be winning. This is a preparation and coaching matter.

"blatant bias and hunger for winning" lol sure. More like hunger for fewer ugly losses and fewer ugly wins. The winning part isn't the point. It's how we're doing it and harming ourselves in the long run. As previously pointed out, we had several close wins last season. For that season alone, it wasn't a big deal. But over multiple seasons now, it's getting tiresome and feeling like the team is not being properly coached the entire way through a game.

I'm thinking of changing the staff after several mediocre seasons (not including last year, as it was our best record in awhile, but that's just one season), not after just two losses. Why do you keep bringing it back to just this season?

Btw, AB isn't complaining about losing. He's complaining about having only one win in four games. Which is understandable.

33 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

Also, you say that like we got blown out. A 20-point deficit, yes, but still not as exaggerated as you make it out to be. Regardless, it's still a playoff win-hungry remark from you, made because of your high expectations.

I'm hungry for a team that can close out games better, have a better defense again, and get a SB again at last after nearly a decade. Nothing more.

34 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

And if an opinion is an opinion...then I suppose it's not morally wrong for a witness to hide vital information to a case to a judge? Because from what I know of society, that's clearly wrong. Oh, but it's just an opinion, right? So it's okay! Oh, and stealing art? That's morally wrong-no wait, that's just an opinion too. So that's okay as well! ...not.

Your opinion we question is not comparable to liking a color or a food, which are indeed just opinions; trivial ones, at that. If the basis behind your reasoning is biased (which we heavily suspect), then it's morally wrong and not trivial. "It's just an opinion" is not a valid "get out of the debate" card here.

...What are you trying to say here? Hiding or stealing something isn't an opinion, it's an action. Completely different.

13 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

It's also hard for me to grasp your frustration, because I fucking love the Ravens even though we've won the division only five times ever and missed the playoffs three years in a row.

I still love the Steelers. I don't love how they are right now, but I'll always root for them to be a great team. Like you would brag about Flacco, I like bringing up that Ben is the only QB with three 500 yd games and the only one that threw 12 TDs in two games. But those things don't matter when your team is starting to do bad. If they're doing bad, you want to bring up some criticism and hope they get better again.

[Phoenix Wright]

7 hours ago, Anacybele said:

And I still have no idea what "moral" opinions you're talking about. Also, an opinion is an opinion, they're neither wrong nor right.

Hey, didn't we play so god awful in that game that it looked like we didn't even deserve to be there? Oh yeah, we did. Came unprepared and just played like shit and got blown out. That. Is. On. Coaching. Not to mention in the divisional game before that, we only got FGs, no TDs. That was bull too. Also, that tie was to the crappy Browns and both losses were to teams we should be better than. Playing down to the competition yet again, which is again, due to poor coaching. When will you get this?!

it's possible to hold an opinion on something based off of flawed information. example:

black people make up the majority of enrolled college students, with white people the disproportionately enrolled minority group (that is, not enough are enrolled.) therefore, it is my opinion that we should help white people get enrolled in college.

now, that opinion is inherently flawed. it's not wrong, but it's ill-informed and would probably change if i knew the actual facts.

to be clear: it's actually the opposite. we see much less black students enrolled in college (<1% black student population in most cases) despite amounting to ~13% of the population (more in certain college areas). we'd expect at least 13% of college students to be black, just statistically speaking.

does this paint a clear enough picture for you?

i will say your reasoning is at least more solid than the above example, but the idea is the same: your reasoning is flawed, therefore the conclusions you've made (even though they're just opinions) are unsound. make sense?

 

17 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Using the same words I just did against you to go against me, how smart... Doesn't change anything though.

And...uh, that's the same thing. I have my reasons for my opinion, so if you say my reasons are wrong, you're saying my opinion is wrong too which makes zero sense.

Okay, how about this. I wish you didn't root for any of the same teams I do.

Oh, and yeah, I do like the Panthers. But I'm not so sure they're great right now either. That remains to be seen for me, but I'll be keeping watch.

Because of things that have happened in past seasons too, not just this one. This one is just the last straw because it shows that the team's only been getting worse, not better. I already said this.

 

see above.

that's a bit mean-spirited for "peaceful conversation," no?

Edited October 4, 2018 by Phoenix Wright

[Anacybele]

19 minutes ago, Phoenix Wright said:

it's possible to hold an opinion on something based off of flawed information. example:

black people make up the majority of enrolled college students, with white people the disproportionately enrolled minority group (that is, not enough are enrolled.) therefore, it is my opinion that we should help white people get enrolled in college.

now, that opinion is inherently flawed. it's not wrong, but it's ill-informed and would probably change if i knew the actual facts.

to be clear: it's actually the opposite. we see much less black students enrolled in college (<1% black student population in most cases) despite amounting to ~13% of the population (more in certain college areas). we'd expect at least 13% of college students to be black, just statistically speaking.

does this paint a clear enough picture for you?

i will say your reasoning is at least more solid than the above example, but the idea is the same: your reasoning is flawed, therefore the conclusions you've made (even though they're just opinions) are unsound. make sense?

 

see above.

that's a bit mean-spirited for "peaceful conversation," no?

Yeah, I get all that. But in the end, I still felt like I was being attacked for simply not agreeing with the other parties. If that wasn't anyone's intention, okay then. My mistake.

[NoirCore]

8 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Except I don't see any tantrums from anyone? No one's yelling or screaming or whining or crying. This is meant to be a rational and calm conversation just as you say.

Because I've seen little reason to blame the players. Yes, Boswell should've been more accurate on that kick, but we wouldn't have needed to kick any game winning FGs if the rest of the team hadn't blown a fucking 17 point lead. The Steelers keep forgetting that a game lasts 60 minutes, not 30, and aren't closing up a game they should be winning. This is a preparation and coaching matter.

"blatant bias and hunger for winning" lol sure. More like hunger for fewer ugly losses and fewer ugly wins. The winning part isn't the point. It's how we're doing it and harming ourselves in the long run. As previously pointed out, we had several close wins last season. For that season alone, it wasn't a big deal. But over multiple seasons now, it's getting tiresome and feeling like the team is not being properly coached the entire way through a game.

I'm thinking of changing the staff after several mediocre seasons (not including last year, as it was our best record in awhile, but that's just one season), not after just two losses. Why do you keep bringing it back to just this season?

Btw, AB isn't complaining about losing. He's complaining about having only one win in four games. Which is understandable.

I'm hungry for a team that can close out games better, have a better defense again, and get a SB again at last after nearly a decade. Nothing more.

...What are you trying to say here? Hiding or stealing something isn't an opinion, it's an action. Completely different.

I still love the Steelers. I don't love how they are right now, but I'll always root for them to be a great team. Like you would brag about Flacco, I like bringing up that Ben is the only QB with three 500 yd games and the only one that threw 12 TDs in two games. But those things don't matter when your team is starting to do bad. If they're doing bad, you want to bring up some criticism and hope they get better again.

Oh? Please, tell us in detail how it is a preparation and coaching matter. Do you have inside information on how things are being handled?

...yup, too hungry for wins. If "making the playoffs and winning at least one game" for those multiple seasons of "not being properly coached through" a good amount of wins is considered "mediocre" to you, then yes, you're too hungry. It's not great, but it's still good, and if not getting great means you want the whole staff shaken up, then I'm glad you're not an advisor to the owners. A staff shake up may likely make things worse, and I'd rather avoid talking about risking getting worse until we see bad in the records. Maybe a losing season, and just to start talking about it. I also dunno why you claim I'm bringing it back to "just this season" as I repeatedly mention these past few seasons over and over to you like a parrot.

No, two games. And the first loss of the season, too. And even four is not so understandable.

...*facepalm* You REALLY let that fly over your head. Those actions have a motive behind them, and selfish ones at that. Knowingly hiding vital evidence that would help convict someone of a crime they committed is wrong of the hider to do. Would you agree that is wrong? If you do, that's a moral opinion that is right. If you don't, it's a moral opinion that is wrong. Can't be handwaved as "just an opinion". I can't believe someone has to explain this to you.

If you're going to give criticism to help the team get better, I suggest you show your research. You made an incorrect claim about penalties and have not explained in detail how the preparation and playcalling was screwed up all these years. Add to the fact that angry fans commonly point the finger at the coach no matter what team without much conclusive evidence instead of wondering where the players went wrong (the coach can't play for everyone, of course), and it's easy to assume your criticism is misinformed/misleading. So prove us wrong and go into detail, and if we see contradicting information, we'll let you know. (Though, what you consider "good enough" may make that a problem with how high you consider such.)

Edited October 5, 2018 by NoirCore

[Anacybele]

15 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

Oh? Please, tell us in detail how it is a preparation and coaching matter. Do you have inside information on how things are being handled?

I already explained it more than once. Go read my past posts.

15 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

...yup, too hungry for wins.

...Did you even read anything I said?

15 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

No, two games. And the first loss of the season, too. And even four is not so understandable.

...We're going into week 5. It's four games. And we've lost twice, not once.

Quote

I can't believe someone has to explain this to you.

Well excuse me for not understanding something. I can't believe you're actually treating me like an idiot.

15 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

If you're going to give criticism to help the team get better, I suggest you show your research. You made an incorrect claim about penalties and have not explained in detail how the preparation and playcalling was screwed up all these years. Add to the fact that angry fans commonly point the finger at the coach no matter what team without much conclusive evidence instead of wondering where the players went wrong (the coach can't play for everyone, of course), and it's easy to assume your criticism is misinformed/misleading. So prove us wrong and go into detail, and if we see contradicting information, we'll let you know. (Though, what you consider "good enough" may make that a problem with how high you consider such.)

...The penalties are not incorrect. The Steelers currently lead the league in penalties. And that's due to a lack of discipline which is due to a lack of proper coaching. There's a reason so many angry fans are pointing at the coaches right now. Because they are right, it IS the coaches.

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Anacybele

[NoirCore]

4 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I already explained it more than once. Go read my past posts.

...Did you even read anything I said?

...We're going into week 5. It's four games. And we've lost twice, not once.

Well excuse me for not understanding something. I can't believe you're actually treating me like an idiot.

...The penalties are not incorrect. The Steelers currently lead the league in penalties. And that's due to a lack of discipline which is due to a lack of proper coaching. There's a reason so many angry fans are pointing at the coaches right now. Because they are right, it IS the coaches.

 

No, you don't give examples. You go "playcalling is bad" and never elaborate on what it was like. You go "preparation is bad" and never elaborate on what it was like. But since I clearly missed that you did in your mind, please reinform me now by quoting your past examples of bad preparation and playcalling. And I don't get how the "play down to the competition" stuff is necessarily linked to only the coach. I know it definitely has happened plenty of times for the Steelers, but how is it Tomlin's fault? Why not the players?

Yes, I did read what you said. You called the last three seasons which include two instances of winning at least one playoff game "mediocre". And I don't agree, hence why I said you were too hungry for wins.

Antonio Brown started complaining after the second game of the season, the first loss. He did not start complaining later than that.

Ana, why would I be talking about actions and not motives in a discussion specifically about opinions? You drove off the clear gray road into the busy forest on this one. And you probably get the feeling like I'm treating you "like an idiot" because I have to remind you of what was even talked about. Speaking of which...

...you seem to have forgotten that you were talking about how the Steelers took up a lot of penalties in recent years when in 2017 and 2015 the opposite was the case and in 2016 they only just made the top 10 overall. That was the reason why I said you were inaccurate. You got me this year so far, but...

Calling for a complete staff overhaul after four games into a season (with two losses to very great teams) is ridiculous. Don't care about how "it was gonna come to this because the signs were there all these other years" or whatever the hell you apparently predicted, it's too damn early, especially with the players contributing to the circumstances either by making the wrong noises or not playing. Wait until the season ends or when (if it happens) we get loss number 9, then start talking about maybe changing a spot on the staff or two. But not the whole damn staff unless we lose the rest of our games from here on out; THAT would be a cause for concern for sure.

[Life]

Let me give a great example.

The assumption is that the Buffalo Bills are going to be the worst team in the NFL this year (one I agree with for certain reasons). The team is 1-3 (should be 0-4) with all three losses being blow-outs.

And yet, I am not calling for the entire coaching staff to be fired. Because they have been with this team for a grand total of 21 games (17 games last season and 4 so far). It doesn't mean that there aren't issues with the team but I would be entirely overreacting to want the coaching staff gone.

Do you see why it is hard for anyone to take your opinion seriously? Nobody said that you can't have an opinion. But it doesn't mean we can't say that your opinion is terrible for X reasons.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Life

[Anacybele]

7 hours ago, NoirCore said:

No, you don't give examples. You go "playcalling is bad" and never elaborate on what it was like. You go "preparation is bad" and never elaborate on what it was like. But since I clearly missed that you did in your mind, please reinform me now by quoting your past examples of bad preparation and playcalling. And I don't get how the "play down to the competition" stuff is necessarily linked to only the coach. I know it definitely has happened plenty of times for the Steelers, but how is it Tomlin's fault? Why not the players?

Okay. How about passing behind the line on a 3rd and 20? Who the fuck does that? And don't get me started on the defense. So many blown coverages lately, though that could be both on the players and the coaching. And as for preparation, I mentioned the playing down to the opponent, which is on coaching because that comes down to preparation and being prepared for the game. And it's the coach's job to get his players prepared.

7 hours ago, NoirCore said:

Yes, I did read what you said. You called the last three seasons which include two instances of winning at least one playoff game "mediocre". And I don't agree, hence why I said you were too hungry for wins.

No, like I said, I'm hungry for wins that aren't super close and wins that don't involve the Steelers having to come from behind. There have been a lot of instances lately where they almost blew a big lead or had to fall behind and then come back to win. Can't we just play well the whole game and close it well too? Winning at all is nice, yes, but in the long run, if you're just getting by the skin of your teeth, that's not going to help in the end.

7 hours ago, NoirCore said:

...you seem to have forgotten that you were talking about how the Steelers took up a lot of penalties in recent years when in 2017 and 2015 the opposite was the case and in 2016 they only just made the top 10 overall. That was the reason why I said you were inaccurate. You got me this year so far, but...

Oh, then my mistake here. But yes, this year the penalties are just awful and that's on coaching because as I said, it's the coach's job to discipline his players. Sure, the coach can only do and say so much, which is why you're not going to ever see a team go 100% penalty free. But they can lessen the penalties.

7 hours ago, NoirCore said:

Calling for a complete staff overhaul after four games into a season (with two losses to very great teams) is ridiculous. Don't care about how "it was gonna come to this because the signs were there all these other years" or whatever the hell you apparently predicted, it's too damn early, especially with the players contributing to the circumstances either by making the wrong noises or not playing. Wait until the season ends or when (if it happens) we get loss number 9, then start talking about maybe changing a spot on the staff or two. But not the whole damn staff unless we lose the rest of our games from here on out; THAT would be a cause for concern for sure.

Calling for new staff after a few mediocre seasons, actually. At the very least, get rid of Tomlin and Butler, as the defense has been the biggest problem, as well as penalties.

[Life]

5 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Calling for new staff after a few mediocre seasons, actually. At the very least, get rid of Tomlin and Butler, as the defense has been the biggest problem, as well as penalties.

You went to the playoffs. That's not "mediocre". Hell, last season, you had a first round bye.

A "mediocre" season is 6-10 or so.

[Anacybele]

10 minutes ago, Life said:

You went to the playoffs. That's not "mediocre". Hell, last season, you had a first round bye.

A "mediocre" season is 6-10 or so.

Last season was the best we'd had in awhile, sure, but we were one-and-done in the playoffs. Lost right away. Which we've already had happen a lot.

[NoirCore]

10 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Okay. How about passing behind the line on a 3rd and 20? Who the fuck does that? And don't get me started on the defense. So many blown coverages lately, though that could be both on the players and the coaching. And as for preparation, I mentioned the playing down to the opponent, which is on coaching because that comes down to preparation and being prepared for the game. And it's the coach's job to get his players prepared.

No, like I said, I'm hungry for wins that aren't super close and wins that don't involve the Steelers having to come from behind. There have been a lot of instances lately where they almost blew a big lead or had to fall behind and then come back to win. Can't we just play well the whole game and close it well too? Winning at all is nice, yes, but in the long run, if you're just getting by the skin of your teeth, that's not going to help in the end.

Oh, then my mistake here. But yes, this year the penalties are just awful and that's on coaching because as I said, it's the coach's job to discipline his players. Sure, the coach can only do and say so much, which is why you're not going to ever see a team go 100% penalty free. But they can lessen the penalties.

Calling for new staff after a few mediocre seasons, actually. At the very least, get rid of Tomlin and Butler, as the defense has been the biggest problem, as well as penalties.

I dunno what you mean by "passing behind the line on 3rd and 20" because I'm pretty sure it's logical to go for the riskier pass option with long to go. Otherwise, that's a start (only because I didn't exactly pay attention to the defense and haven't been watching too much with how busy I am), but you're not descriptive enough on preparation. What do the coaches specifically have to prep the players for? What can they control? How much are the players letting them control? And keep in mind you're talking about preparation that resulted in losses against very great teams (though you got me on the Browns unless you're factoring in the distractions).

Weren't you just arguing against that in our last conversation where I was ironically downplaying your kings claim? In any case, fair point, but finishing strong is very important.

And again we go to your perception of "mediocre" which I'm certain practically everyone else established as different from the norm here. 10-6 or better does not qualify as "not very good" in the eyes of many a person I've talked to, including in this thread. You're not going to get your wish now. You'll have talk about getting it when and if the losing gets out of hand (or the coaches get involved in a scandal, which is a different matter entirely).

So wait and see, or burn yourself out mentally calling for this now to our confusion.