Would you be down for "character alts"?

[The DanMan]

As in, alt costumes that straight up are other characters. They'd go the full route of having a unique model (and voices where applicable) and even maybe different attack effects, but still using the exact same moveset data. Basically, the effort put into a straight clone without actually being a clone.

Personally, I think it would be a nice way to have characters who don't have any real shot of getting in as playable characters still show up in a playable fashion.

For instance, Dark Samus with some phazon effects on Samus' attacks. Or maybe a full Black Shadow costume for Captain Falcon. Or Chrom for Ike that swaps out the fire for electricity (since TMS and FEW have turned it into the elemental association of the entire Ylissean royal family).

[Johann]

So, like Alph is to Olimar, or the Koopa Kids to Bowser Jr-- same gameplay same character slot, just another character? I have been thinking that they could very easily add extra characters this way, the only difficult part being the extra modeling/animation, and some extra voice recording. Modeling/animation definitely takes a fair amount of time and resources, but if they can reuse assets from other games (such as FE Warriors), then I would imagine it's a decent possibility (3DS's Smash Run used a lot of Kid Icarus enemies because they fresh from Uprising).

Black Shadow's probably too huge to swap in for Captain Falcon,, but Blood Falcon and some of the other more standard human sized racers (Jody) would fit.

[NinjaMonkey]

Lucina to be a Marth alt, yes.

[Lightchao42]

Smash 4 already has character alts in Alph and the Koopalings, but I wouldn't mind more as long as them being identical to another character isn't too much of a stretch. Chrom for example wouldn't really work as an Ike alt, because he's more in-between Marth and Ike instead of being exactly like Ike.

It's worth noting that Lucina, Dr. Mario, and Dark Pit were originally meant to be costumes too, but they were given their own slots instead because most of the work was already done for them.

[Light Strategist]

59 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

Chrom for example wouldn't really work as an Ike alt, because he's more in-between Marth and Ike instead of being exactly like Ike.

He's more like Roy in Smash. (The fact that nobody this notices irks me)
He hits harder than Marth and is still pretty quick but nowhere near as outright strong as Ike. He's able to jump around more easily than Ike and has a nice balance of speedy and strong attacks to make him a varied fighter. And since Lucina learned from Chrom, should be pretty well the same here... ah well...

[The DanMan]

1 hour ago, Lightchao42 said:

Smash 4 already has character alts in Alph and the Koopalings, but I wouldn't mind more as long as them being identical to another character isn't too much of a stretch. Chrom for example wouldn't really work as an Ike alt, because he's more in-between Marth and Ike instead of being exactly like Ike.

It's worth noting that Lucina, Dr. Mario, and Dark Pit were originally meant to be costumes too, but they were given their own slots instead because most of the work was already done for them.

While he's not exactly like Ike, Smash isn't above taking liberties with characters (see: Robin with dark magic) and Sakurai himself said the main reason Chrom was rejected was due to any sort of moveset they could give him being too similar to Ike's. Chrom himself is a deliberate throwback to Ike in some ways, being plainspoken and a bit forceful/tactless (with early concept designs of his conspicuously giving him a red cape). And Ike was pretty well-rounded as a fighter in his game proper, yet Smash took him and turned him into something of a foil for Marth.

I am well aware of what happened with the clone trio; in some ways, that's the biggest hole in this. Doesn't seem like the team would be down for "premium costumes" like this.

2 hours ago, Johann said:

So, like Alph is to Olimar, or the Koopa Kids to Bowser Jr-- same gameplay same character slot, just another character? I have been thinking that they could very easily add extra characters this way, the only difficult part being the extra modeling/animation, and some extra voice recording. Modeling/animation definitely takes a fair amount of time and resources, but if they can reuse assets from other games (such as FE Warriors), then I would imagine it's a decent possibility (3DS's Smash Run used a lot of Kid Icarus enemies because they fresh from Uprising).

Black Shadow's probably too huge to swap in for Captain Falcon,, but Blood Falcon and some of the other more standard human sized racers (Jody) would fit.

I just fired that one out there, really. Don't have much knowledge of F-Zero; Black Shadow's just brought up a lot in Smash discussion (or was).

But yeah, like Olimar and Alph (or like Injustice 2 with its whole character alts).

 

Edited April 30, 2018 by The DanMan

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Yes, like Alph and the Koopalings, and like the three clones of Smash 4 before they decided they had a bit more time on their hands. Smash 4 prioritized its bloated character roster over a game with compelling modes and I think they can dial back that decision for the new game by making character alts to save development time for more modes, more reworks of veterans that need it, and better balance decisions. And in general there's a lack of history in some of these veteran characters. Mario doesn't have his jump man duds, a Metal Mario skin or any number of his power ups like Tanooki, Bee, etc. Toon Link can be dressed as any of the 2D Links while taller Link can be dressed as the 3D Links.

Custom moves are also a key component for character alts. Fox got custom moves that simulate Wolf's attacks while Ness got Lucas' specials. That's pretty genius and would pair well with alternate costume. I also think unlocking character alts would be compelling rewards. Once people finish unlocking character and stages, the rest isn't much to care about.

[Lightchao42]

21 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

While he's not exactly like Ike, Smash isn't above taking liberties with characters (see: Robin with dark magic) and Sakurai himself said the main reason Chrom was rejected was due to any sort of moveset they could give him being too similar to Ike's. Chrom himself is a deliberate throwback to Ike in some ways, being plainspoken and a bit forceful/tactless (with early concept designs of his conspicuously giving him a red cape). And Ike was pretty well-rounded as a fighter in his game proper, yet Smash took him and turned him into something of a foil for Marth.

I have I hard time imagining Chrom with Ike's moveset mainly because Falchion is much smaller than Ragnell, so all those heavy sword swings would look rather strange when Chrom is doing it (and one of the reasons Ike was added was because Sakurai wanted a heavy sword user). And like I said, Chrom is in-between Marth and Ike in attributes. Anyway...

59 minutes ago, Light Strategist said:

He's more like Roy in Smash. (The fact that nobody this notices irks me)
He hits harder than Marth and is still pretty quick but nowhere near as outright strong as Ike. He's able to jump around more easily than Ike and has a nice balance of speedy and strong attacks to make him a varied fighter. And since Lucina learned from Chrom, should be pretty well the same here... ah well...

The problem with Chrom isn't that he can't have a unique moveset or attributes, it's that he doesn't add anything new or interesting to Smash Bros. Characters need to be obviously unique to get in (clones aside), and this was especially true for Smash 4. This is why Corrin was included despite Sakurai already having reservations on the amount of FE characters.

Basically, Chrom is too similar to Marth and Ike to warrant being added as a unique character, but he's not similar enough to be made an alt or clone.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Nah. I prefer characters actually getting their own slots.

[maybe]

yes because that means the possibility of a detective pikachu alt for pikachu 

[Water Mage]

I hope it happens more. I can think of some alts already:

Peach: Daisy

Sheik: Impa

Robin: Grima

Cloud: Zack

Fox: James

Ryu: Ken

There are more examples that I’m probably missing.

[Johann]

59 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

I just fired that one out there, really. Don't have much knowledge of F-Zero; Black Shadow's just brought up a lot in Smash discussion (or was).

But yeah, like Olimar and Alph (or like Injustice 2 with its whole character alts).

Ah, most of the characters in F-Zero are zany comic book-styled futuristic characters, many in the form fitting outfits that Falcon himself wears. I'd only think of 4 characters being recognizable enough to make it in either as characters or alts:

• Black Shadow is actually rather analogous to Ganondorf in terms of role, abilities, and body type. I think there are a fair amount of fans that have wanted him to be a Ganon alt (or more specifically, replace Ganon's moveset and give Ganon all new moves).
• Samurai Goroh (currently an assist trophy) would probably be best off as his own character, since he's nothing like the other sword wielders in terms of style or body type
• Jody Summer would suit a moveset like Zero Suit Samus, as she wears a similar outfit and is a hyper-athletic space cop. Captain Falcon's white and pink color palette is a reference to Jody.
• Blood Falcon-- a literal clone of Captain Falcon-- who's actually already playable as Cap's red color scheme already is Blood Falcon, minus the skull emblem on his helmet replacing the falcon. They did at least do his jacket:

Spoiler

F-Zero's been an untouched franchise for so long though, so I doubt they'll make much effort to add anything new. There are trophies at least, and you might get a kick out of looking at some of them (especially James McCloud, a major shout-out to Star Fox, and Mr. EAD, sort of a Mario-themed robot).

[King Marth 64]

Since this upcoming Super Smash Bros. title for the Nintendo Switch will might possibly add more color alts like above 8, I'm kinda wondered if Bowser Jr. would get his own color palette or they could add more new characters in Bowser Jr.'s costume palette swap? I'm guessing Boom Boom and Pom Pom might get added as one of Bowser Jr.'s new alts.

[SoulWeaver]

1 hour ago, Lightchao42 said:

I have I hard time imagining Chrom with Ike's moveset mainly because Falchion is much smaller than Ragnell, so all those heavy sword swings would look rather strange when Chrom is doing it (and one of the reasons Ike was added was because Sakurai wanted a heavy sword user). And like I said, Chrom is in-between Marth and Ike in attributes. Anyway...

The problem with Chrom isn't that he can't have a unique moveset or attributes, it's that he doesn't add anything new or interesting to Smash Bros. Characters need to be obviously unique to get in (clones aside), and this was especially true for Smash 4. This is why Corrin was included despite Sakurai already having reservations on the amount of FE characters.

Basically, Chrom is too similar to Marth and Ike to warrant being added as a unique character, but he's not similar enough to be made an alt or clone.

I assume you already knew this, but I'd also like to point out Robin's Palutena Guidance Convo - Viridi explicitly states Chrom would be a carbon copy of Ike but without Aether. While it's difficult to imagine(I have some difficulty seeing it as well), Sakurai has spoken, unless anyone manages to convince him otherwise Chrom would be an Ike clone, with the closest thing to a difference being that Chrom is depicted as having Marth's Tipper Trail on his slashes in Robin's Final Smash, so Chrom would basically be Ike with a Tipper and an alternate Up Special.

[Michelaar]

Personally, i'm not a fan of them doing this.

[Slumber]

I have a soft spot for the idea, because I loved discovering Tiger by accident in Tekken 3 and TTT. Similar deal with Violet, but Violet is an alter-ego of the character he's an alt of, so... 

But I'd be fine with it. 

[Anomalocaris]

I'm kinda iffy on the idea of alt costumes that are whole other characters. I'm fine with keeping Alph and the Koopalings, but I wouldn't want to see more exotic deviations like Chrom for Ike, or Dixie for Diddy, ect. Or for anyone to be demoted from separate character to mere costume.

[Jave]

As long as they don't overdo them, and as long as no one from a previous game gets demoted from playable to alt, sure, go ahead.

[Lord_Brand]

I'm totally down with alts. Heck, I've suggested before that Fire Emblem could get a lot of reps in Smash if they chose some basic classes like Fighter and Knight, then used eight different characters  as the skin variants. Ideally they'd be listed in order of appearance (so, Marth-generation characters would be listed first, followed by Gaiden, then Jugdral, Elibe, Magvel, Tellius, Awakening, and Fates) and if at all possible would be split evenly between male and female reps. Some interpretive flexibility would be allowed; promoted units fit into the base class, thus Frederick would be a Cavalier alt alongside Xander, and similar classes like Fighter and Oni Savage can be grouped together, so Rinkah can be included as another female Fighter alongside Charlotte, and Kaze and Saizo could be considered Thieves.

I'm torn between Smash 5's Link using different Links (BotW, OoT, TP, SS) as his alts, and using different costumes from BotW for greater diversity. If they're willing to do both, I'm fine with Link getting over eight costumes, though they probably shouldn't go over sixteeen per character. Same with Zelda.

And if sixteen variants are allowed, that's all the more room for Fire Emblem reps, if they're so inclined. Would be a good idea to get some playable villains in there too, like Ashnard and Gangrel.

[peener weener]

On 29/4/2018 at 11:54 PM, Water Mage said:

I hope it happens more. I can think of some alts already:

Peach: Daisy

Sheik: Impa

Robin: Grima

Cloud: Zack

Fox: James

Ryu: Ken

There are more examples that I’m probably missing.

dont know if it's in 4, but peach already has a daisy alt, complete with unique textures for the dress and accessories

 

edit: in melee

Edited May 10, 2018 by fartboi

[Water Mage]

On 10/05/2018 at 1:34 AM, fartboi said:

dont know if it's in 4, but peach already has a daisy alt, complete with unique textures for the dress and accessories

 

edit: in melee

It’s not quite an alt. Alt is a completely different character.

[peener weener]

3 hours ago, Water Mage said:

It’s not quite an alt. Alt is a completely different character.

it doesn't have a unique model, but it does have unique textures. i guess the colour isn't explicitly called daisy, but that's kind of arbitrary, isn't it?

a comparison:

Spoiler

her dress, gloves, and accessories are different. for all intents and purposes, she's a daisy alt, not a daisy-inspired peach colour.