Corrobin Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 Just now, Michelaar said: Someone specializing has little to do with anything. She would be a lot better if she would promote into sage, but no, Mage Knight. Why? She's a noblewoman, she should know how to ride a horse and use a sword alongside her magic training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelaar Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Just now, Corrobin said: She's a noblewoman, she should know how to ride a horse and use a sword alongside her magic training. So? Does that mean she doesn't have what it takes to be a sage? I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrobin Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 Just now, Michelaar said: So? Does that mean she doesn't have what it takes to be a sage? I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. I'm just saying that character-wise, it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cysx Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Spoiler Miranda's main element would arguably be wind really, since unlike Sara and Homer, she can actually use it before promotion, and sorely needs it to be of any use. Also unless my version of Thracia was glitched, her base Fire rank is D, not C, and I have a sneaking suspicion that people don't know because nobody ever goes through B route. But seriously, mage knight isn't that bad. Plus to be fair, Miranda has good enough growths that she doesn't really need sage's promotion bonuses, and that's without scrolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Corrobin said: It's more of a character/thematic thing. Exceptions to normal promotion rules that make sense according to the character's background and personality add depth to the cast. There are other, better ways to add depth to the cast without having to potentially screw over units. Also, the less bad ideas we resurrect, the better. Edited April 30, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 54 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said: Funny thing is, I see no major upsides to character specific promotions. Class and unit balance is already a hot mess, and this would do nothing but make things worse. If anything that could help units a lot. Same giving someone like Donnel/Mozu/Amelia a good promotion to a rare and powerful class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said: If anything that could help units a lot. Same giving someone like Donnel/Mozu/Amelia a good promotion to a rare and powerful class. No. It. Would. Not. Help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said: No. It. Would. Not. Help. That doesn't tell me anything, how would it not help? Having unique promotions into powerful classes sure helped the cavaliers Narron and Sun in Tearring Saga, for reference. Edited April 30, 2018 by Emperor Hardin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Just now, Emperor Hardin said: That doesn't tell me anything, how would it not help? Simply put, I don't trust IS to make it work in this era or the next. Or at all. And I said already, some classes are just better than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said: Simply put, I don't trust IS to make it work in this era or the next. Or at all. And I said already, some classes are just better than others. Which is is what I mean, bad characters like Donnel could be balanced by promoting into the best classes, thus giving greater incentive for the player to use them. In one of the most popular hacks for Thracia 776, Marty promotes to Berserker for example. Similarly, very powerful characters could be balanced by promoting into weaker tier 2 classes. Edited April 30, 2018 by Emperor Hardin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelaar Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said: Which is is what I mean, bad characters like Donnel could be balanced by promoting into the best classes, thus giving greater incentive for the player to use them. Similarly, very powerful characters could be balanced by promoting into weaker tier 2 classes. How is Donnel a bad character exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Just now, Michelaar said: How is Donnel a bad character exactly? He's low tier on professional tier lists. Basically for all the effort you need to put in Donnel, he only turns out below average with a pitiful class+skill pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Michelaar said: How is Donnel a bad character exactly? Bad bases. Needs a Second Seal to get out of Villager. Has to deal with bronze lock twice. Winds up with less classes than others. Edited April 30, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelaar Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said: Bad bases. Needs a Second Seal to get out of Villager. Has to deal with bronze lock twice. 1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said: He's low tier on professional tier lists. Basically for all the effort you need to put in Donnel, he only turns out below average with a pitiful class+skill pool. Really? On every playthrough Donnel turned into a god for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Michelaar said: Really? On every playthrough Donnel turned into a god for me. If you put the same effort and resources into say Panne or Frederick, they all turn out much better then Donnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Michelaar said: Really? On every playthrough Donnel turned into a god for me. The thing is, no one else has to go through the phase of suck that Donnel does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelaar Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said: If you put the same effort and resources into say Panne or Frederick, they all turn out much better then Donnel. Alright but I like Donnel better than those two so I'd use him over them, but that's beside the point. I don't think making stronger characters have weaker promotion options is a good idea? Balancing everything out makes the game very stale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Michelaar said: Alright but I like Donnel better than those two so I'd use him over them, but that's beside the point. I don't think making stronger characters have weaker promotion options is a good idea? Balancing everything out makes the game very stale. Lets put it this way, if Donnel could promote to like say Conqueror(with better skills), he'd be far more worth it then he was in the regular game, where he just becomes a Hero/Warrior/Bow Knight like everyone else except with Meh caps and skills. Its not as if Awakening was balanced, some classes were just awful and others were gods. Edited April 30, 2018 by Emperor Hardin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ping Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Cool idea :) One might actually consider Fates (Awakening too? I'm not familiar at all with that one) in this direction, since every character has their own set of classes to reclass into, so it wouldn't be too much of a jump to characters promoting into a class not directly linked to their unpromoted class set. The only reason that I see against it - the current reclassing system (not counting Echoes) already allows for a similar effect, like Elise's option to reclass into the Wyvern class set that can be seen as a sign of her adoration towards Camilla. But maybe this could be a way to keep the reclassing options more restricted. My main problem with the reclassing system as it was in the DS games is that it turns a lot of characters into lesser, or later-joining (which almost always translates to "lesser") versions of a superior unit, although I don't know how much of an issue this is in Awakening and Fates. 8 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said: If you put the same effort and resources into say Panne or Frederick, they all turn out much better then Donnel. Didn't Donnel even have lower caps than other units which makes him an inferior endgame pick, as well? As I said, I don't remember much about Awakening, but this came to my mind when I was reading this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, ping said: Didn't Donnel even have lower caps than other units which makes him an inferior endgame pick, as well? As I said, I don't remember much about Awakening, but this came to my mind when I was reading this discussion. Yes, that too. Donnel's caps don't favor the classes he has either. For reference, he can only be: a Hero, Warrior, or Bow Knight. Nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said: Which is is what I mean, bad characters like Donnel could be balanced by promoting into the best classes, thus giving greater incentive for the player to use them. In one of the most popular hacks for Thracia 776, Marty promotes to Berserker for example. Similarly, very powerful characters could be balanced by promoting into weaker tier 2 classes. And yet I believe the opposite is much more likely to happen... Look at the Miranda mention. I agree with Michelaar on her - having her promote to Mage Knight was stupid. What the hell does sword access do for her??? There'll never be a situation where she's better off using a sword over magic. Edited April 30, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said: And yet I believe the opposite is much more likely to happen... Look at the Miranda mention. I agree with Michelaar on her - having her promote to Mage Knight was stupid. What the hell does sword access do for her??? There'll never be a situation where she's better off using a sword over magic. True, IS could screw it up. I mean look at how Barons became even weaker in SOV rather then being improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewMcC00l Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 I think that split promotion is the best way to do promotion, but I also really liked Thracia's unique promotions. The problem in that game though is that it didn't amount to much in the end. Machua going Myrm->Hero meant having a great hero with strong stats all around. The problem is Othin and Halvan on their own, and pretty much anyone with Scrolls and flat 20 caps, can already do this. Asbel being a Sage does help him greatly, but there are also a bunch of other sages in the game, so this isn't too special either. With varied stat caps, I think it would be interesting to see it return. It would be neat to have, say, a Knight who becomes a Paladin, or a Mercenary->Swordmaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cysx Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said: And yet I believe the opposite is much more likely to happen... Look at the Miranda mention. I agree with Michelaar on her - having her promote to Mage Knight was stupid. What the hell does sword access do for her??? There'll never be a situation where she's better off using a sword over magic. Brings her more movement and canto. Is "they'll probably mess it up" really a good reason? Technically that goes for anything, so we might as well be against them making more Fire Emblem games. This in particular doesn't seem any harder to balance than what we've had in the past few entries. Plus it's not like it's actually happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, AndrewMcC00l said: I think that split promotion is the best way to do promotion, but I also really liked Thracia's unique promotions. The problem in that game though is that it didn't amount to much in the end. Machua going Myrm->Hero meant having a great hero with strong stats all around. The problem is Othin and Halvan on their own, and pretty much anyone with Scrolls and flat 20 caps, can already do this. Asbel being a Sage does help him greatly, but there are also a bunch of other sages in the game, so this isn't too special either. With varied stat caps, I think it would be interesting to see it return. It would be neat to have, say, a Knight who becomes a Paladin, or a Mercenary->Swordmaster. Tearring Saga did it better I think. You had a very weak Cavalier unit be the only potential Gold knight in the player's army for example. While the Armor Knight unit who lacked MOV growth, promoted to Iron Knight instead of General. The Iron Knight one is funny because the character resembled Arden, fitting he fulfills Arden's desire for a horse. Edited April 30, 2018 by Emperor Hardin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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