Would you trust any other developer with FE?

[Re: The weirdo.]

probably not actually. I mean, the guy who wrote fates PROBABLY knew what he was doing, but IS cut shit out 'cos the cartridge was running out of space. which could have been remedied by removing the terrible, unnecesary chapters in all of the routes but hindsight is 20/20

[OakTree]

On 03/05/2018 at 10:44 AM, redtutel said:

This article seems to imply otherwise. Not to mention that from the beginning, the game was meant to be the ultimate Arran or Samson decision.

http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Fire_Emblem_Fates/credits#Story_Supervisor

Fourteen different people worked on the writing of Fates, with ten writers on the scenario alone.

[DisobeyedCargo]

I don't see a reason to trust anyone else with it. IS seems to be doing overall a good job with FE. 

Now writing on the other hand, I wouldn't mind at all if someone else did that. Fates story was pretty bad.

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 5/1/2018 at 8:56 AM, DemolisherBPB said:

I dunno, I could go for FFT x FE. So long as the Tactics team handles it, it's probably be fine.

 

I'd fear FE becoming too much like FFT, where map design is nil and the emphasis is less on strategy and more the RPG half of "SRPG" and just bombing enemies with your strongest skills. I won't deny FE can devolve into mindless stats nuking, but even then is more strategic than FFT (which I don't hate). Not to mention I think FE plays much faster than FFT or FFTA/2 or other games in that style, which I appreciate.

IS is good with FE, Fates had them on the mend from the questionable gameplay performance of Awakening, although Rev was poor and SoV too faithful in the maps. I'll need a few complete strikeouts in the gameplay department before I'd consider passing FE on to someone else. 

[Modamy]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'd fear FE becoming too much like FFT, where map design is nil and the emphasis is less on strategy and more the RPG half of "SRPG" and just bombing enemies with your strongest skills. I won't deny FE can devolve into mindless stats nuking, but even then is more strategic than FFT (which I don't hate). Not to mention I think FE plays much faster than FFT or FFTA/2 or other games in that style, which I appreciate.

IS is good with FE, Fates had them on the mend from the questionable gameplay performance of Awakening, although Rev was poor and SoV too faithful in the maps. I'll need a few complete strikeouts in the gameplay department before I'd consider passing FE on to someone else. 

I'vetried multiple times to play Tactics myself but just couldn't get into it with how slow the game felt. I even downloaded War of the Lions with a patch that upped the game speed, but the isometric angle of the game just made it feel really awkward and clumsy to play. I still have the intention of finishing it one day, but from what I've played it doesn't feel much like the tactical game I've been looking for and more of the "build super units to steamroll the game" kind of game that I'm disappointed that FE is becoming. I would agree that IS is better when it comes to map design than the developers of other SRPGs I've played, but it feels worrying that they may just head down the slippery slope until we have Awakening level map design again since most fans don't care about map design as long as they can grind and power through it with overpowered units.

[thecrimsonflash]

I don't know, I find IS to be lazy and incompetent most of the time, but I also don't have anyone who I think could make a new fire emblem and have it feel like fire emblem, I really don't like the FFT and disgaea style of SRPG (I find them fun but border on being brain dead(stella glow was one of my favorite 3ds games so you can't call me biased)) which I am afraid will be what fire emblem would become in the hands of any other developer. I guess that I lose either way, let's just bring back kaga and call it a day, the tiering saga games sound really interesting so I feel that he could make something good.

[Shadow Mir]

Gameplay wise, they've been doing well. I will give them that much. Story wise, they could do better.

3 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said:

let's just bring back kaga and call it a day, the tiering saga games sound really interesting so I feel that he could make something good.

I say no - as far as I'm concerned, he struck out HORRIBLY with Jugdral.

[Emperor Hardin]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Gameplay wise, they've been doing well. I will give them that much. Story wise, they could do better.

I say no - as far as I'm concerned, he struck out HORRIBLY with Jugdral.

How so?

I mean you constantly go on about your hatred of Fighters, yet Thracia 776 Fighters are some of the best in the series.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[Shadow Mir]

5 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

How so?

Thracia is blatantly rushed (I highly doubt that stuff like healing staves missing would even be a thing if not for the fact that he was releasing it on a dead console), and Genealogy has a bunch of obnoxious mechanics that make it arduous to get into (not that Thracia is innocent of this, because it is not).

Edited May 12, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Emperor Hardin]

Just now, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Thracia is blatantly rushed (I highly doubt that stuff like healing staves missing would even be a thing if not for the fact that he was releasing it on a dead console, and), and Genealogy has a bunch of obnoxious mechanics that make it arduous to get into (not that Thracia is innocent of this, because it is not).

Healing Staves missing was intended and Thracia 776 staff wielders are some of the best in the franchise..

And plenty of FE games have obnoxious mechanics.

[NegativeExponents-]

9 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Healing Staves missing was intended and Thracia 776 staff wielders are some of the best in the franchise..

And plenty of FE games have obnoxious mechanics.

Thracia is not my forte, but healing staves being able to miss is undoubtedly a huge mistake. Just because it was intended doesn’t make it better. I’d actually argue it makes it much worse. How incompetent must someone be to think that’s a good idea?

Edit: I just realized that it might have sounded like I was calling you incompetent but I meant Kaga since he came up with the idea.

Edited May 12, 2018 by NegativeExponents-

[Shadow Mir]

9 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Healing Staves missing was intended and Thracia 776 staff wielders are some of the best in the franchise..

And plenty of FE games have obnoxious mechanics.

I still think it's dumb as hell (and I would go so far as to say inexcusable, even) that healing is subject to RNG - I sure as hell would NOT take it well if a unit died because my healer missed. Also, I think that if it was intended, that just goes to show that the dev team was incompetent.

Perhaps, but if I may be frank, Jugdral has the others beat by a country mile when it comes to obnoxious mechanics.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Modamy]

While I find the ability of of staves to miss annoying and not well thought out I wouldn't go as far as calling Kaga incompetent. It was probably done to balance out insanely good staves like warp, rewarp, thief, sleep, and berserk and they even gave you a random chance of doubling with staves. There definitely needed to be a different kind of nerf to these staves, but insulting the man for it seems to be a bit much.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Modamy

[NegativeExponents-]

Yeah, I guess incompetent is a bit much. Still seems strange to nerf healing staves too. Don’t all the status staves already have a chance of missing anyway?

[Emperor Hardin]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I still think it's dumb as hell (and I would go so far as to say inexcusable, even) that healing is subject to RNG - I sure as hell would NOT take it well if a unit died because my healer missed. Also, I think that if it was intended, that just goes to show that the dev team was incompetent.

Funny because Thracia 776 has great reception and is particularly praised for its Ai and mechanics.

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Perhaps, but if I may be frank, Jugdral has the others beat by a country mile when it comes to obnoxious mechanics.

You say that and don't elaborate.

Heck the characters are more balanced then say Awakening or Echoes: SOV.

[Shadow Mir]

41 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Funny because Thracia 776 has great reception and is particularly praised for its Ai and mechanics.

By who, Jugdral fans? Because I only see those, the really dedicated FE players, or those who want to boast about having played every FE game as the ones who would bother to play it in the first place.

41 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

You say that and don't elaborate.

Heck the characters are more balanced then say Awakening or Echoes: SOV.

Do you earnestly want me to repeat myself? I find Genealogy to have a bunch of obnoxious mechanics between the fact that trading costs money, and every unit has their own money stash, as well as static weapon ranks, among other things. Thracia isn't as bad, other than the escape maps and the aforementioned stuff about healing staves being able to miss.

Very funny. You say that Genealogy has better balance than either Awakening or SoV? Nice joke.

[Emperor Hardin]

3 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

By who, Jugdral fans? Because I only see those, the really dedicated FE players, or those who want to boast about having played every FE game as the ones who would bother to play it in the first place.

I'm referring to Thracia 776 whose AI is consistently praised.

Also you haven't even played Thracia 776 and admit to doing so. With this in mind, you can't make assumptions about the game like that.

3 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Do you earnestly want me to repeat myself? I find Genealogy to have a bunch of obnoxious mechanics between the fact that trading costs money, and every unit has their own money stash, as well as static weapon ranks, among other things. Thracia isn't as bad, other than the escape maps and the aforementioned stuff about healing staves being able to miss.

Very funny. You say that Genealogy has better balance than either Awakening or SoV? Nice joke.

Thracia 776 is easily better balanced then SOV. I already mentioned how utterly overpowered Archers+Dread Fighters are and how completely useless the armor line is in SOV.

As for Genealogy, the mechanics we have now would not exist without the game.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[Shadow Mir]

5 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

I'm referring to Thracia 776 whose AI is consistently praised.

Also you haven't even played Thracia 776 and admit to doing so. With this in mind, you can't make assumptions about the game like that.

By whom? Because like I said, most people wouldn't bother playing it with the accessibility problems it has.

What do I care? Because it'll be a cold day in hell before I deem it worth playing.

5 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Thracia 776 is easily better balanced then SOV. I already mentioned how utterly overpowered Archers+Dread Fighters are and how completely useless the armor line is in SOV.

As for Genealogy, the mechanics we have now would not exist without the game.

Is this some kind of meme or something? Because I could just as easily point out how busted staff users in Thracia are.

Sure, Genealogy did introduce skills and the weapon triangle, which remained relevant throughout the series (more so the latter), but some of the other mechanics that are unique to it just make it hard to play, as far as I'm concerned.

[Shrimpica]

8 hours ago, Modamy said:

It was probably done to balance out insanely good staves like warp, rewarp, thief, sleep, and berserk

Tbh, instead of leaving everything to chance and then making Staff map wide and status last forever, just make them like in every other game (Range = Mag/2, Hit based on Mag/res, etc). Even then, staves that buff allies should never miss. Just imagine playing a RP session and tell the others players that for buffs/heals you have roll. See how that will come along. 

While ik the stave problem in T776 is fixed once you hit midgame (because of the 60 + Skl Hit Formula, which means once you hit 10 Skl everything is daijoubo), it was pretty annoying early game, and late game i just abused the hell out of staves. 

8 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Perhaps, but if I may be frank, Jugdral has the others beat by a country mile when it comes to obnoxious mechanics.

While that is kinda true, Jugdral also has some of the coolest mechanics around and gives the player enough tools to fight those obnoxious mechanics.

''Nothing is op if everything is op'' kind of thing.

Unlike GBAFE that removes every cool thing Jugdral had and retained every obnoxious one.

You really should play the game before judging it

7 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

praised for its Ai

FE5 had good AI???

I don't remember the AI being any different from normal FE when i played it.

6 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

escape maps

how are those bad?

Even CQ's Escape map was an everyone escape map.

 

8 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

And plenty of FE games have obnoxious mechanics.

tbh, nothing so far is as obnoxious as FE4 trading.

 

Also, while i do have aloooooot of problems with Kaga's game design, i respect the guy for trying something different every time. Even if the results vary. He just needs someone to control his craziness a bit and to test his experimenting.

Infact, my fav. Gameplay FE (CQ) feeliks like a ''controlled''-Kaga gameplay. A bit of his craziness is definetly there (even if he had nothing to do with it). All the Enemy staff users give me a T776 vibe now that i replay CQ after finishing FE5. Even the escape map is a ''everyone must escape'' map.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Shrimperor

[NinjaMonkey]

7 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

Unlike GBAFE that removes every cool thing Jugdral had and retained every obnoxious one.

That's funny, I don't remember the GBA games having fatigue, dismounting or healing staves having a chance to miss.

[Shrimpica]

16 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

That's funny, I don't remember the GBA games having fatigue, dismounting or healing staves having a chance to miss.

I liked dismounting (although Sword lock wasn't cool) and didn't mind fatigue.

What GBA removed:

-Skills and weapon Skills

-Capturing

-STR/MAG split

-Growth Scrolls

-fatigue

-Leadership/Authority

-Non-static Con/Bld. God, do i hate GBA's con system.

-The amount of prf weapons

I am pretty sure there are more that i can't remember atm

What GBA retained:

-Obnxious enemy numbers

-Same turn reinforcements (incase of FE6)

-Gaiden Chapters being awful

and then added slog maps, a Lord that is a seize button and has to be babied, shit hit rates and awful unit balance.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Shrimperor

[Shadow Mir]

27 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

While that is kinda true, Jugdral also has some of the coolest mechanics around and gives the player enough tools to fight those obnoxious mechanics.

''Nothing is op if everything is op'' kind of thing.

Unlike GBAFE that removes every cool thing Jugdral had and retained every obnoxious one.

You really should play the game before judging it

Except the obnoxious stuff is just that damn bad to the point that the good gets eclipsed. Trying to find good in Jugdral is like digging through a big pile of manure for a candy bar - is it really worth it??? I say no chance in hell.

Bold: You're joking, right? Because I don't remember fatigue, forced dismounting, or healing staves being able to miss being in the GBA games.

I would if I deemed it playable... Which I do not.

[Shrimpica]

10 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Bold: You're joking, right? Because I don't remember fatigue, forced dismounting, or healing staves being able to miss being in the GBA games.

no, i am not. Dismounting is a cool idea and horsies did need a nerf. The only thing that wasn't really that good was the Sword-lock, and even it wasn't that bad, some Characters (Karin, Nanna, Fergus) were as good when dismounted and they are when mounted.

Fatigue: it never really bothered me. I needed like, 6 S-drinks the whole game? and only late game at that, as early and midgame do give you enough easy chapters where you can rest your strongers units and let your weaker units fight or just solo with OP unit who will have sit out one chapter where all your stronger units all available again.

10 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I would if I deemed it playable... Which I do not.

did you atleast try to play a few chapters to deem it so?

Edited May 12, 2018 by Shrimperor

[OakTree]

24 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Bold: You're joking, right? Because I don't remember fatigue, forced dismounting, or healing staves being able to miss being in the GBA games.

I personally consider Fatigue in Thracia as a badly-implemented mechanic because it just doesn't punish the player enough, it's supposed to stop players from lowmanning, but the fact that Thracia just loves to shower the player with S-Drinks means they can just trivialize stuff and use the exact same team throught the entire game with no reason to have any variance.

To make Fatigue work well, literally all you would have to do is make S-Drinks not buyable.

Edited May 12, 2018 by OakTree

[Shadow Mir]

45 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

no, i am not. Dismounting is a cool idea and horsies did need a nerf. The only thing that wasn't really that good was the Sword-lock, and even it wasn't that bad, some Characters (Karin, Nanna, Fergus) were as good when dismounted and they are when mounted.

Fatigue: it never really bothered me. I needed like, 6 S-drinks the whole game? and only late game at that, as early and midgame do give you enough easy chapters where you can rest your strongers units and let your weaker units fight or just solo with OP unit who will have sit out one chapter where all your stronger units all available again.

Except all those units are in sword using classes to begin with and thus don't really lose efficiency when dismounted. And I do think dismounting was cool... in FE3, where weapon ranks didn't exist yet.

Well, the part where the game can just up and arbitrarily say "you gotta bench this unit" is a deal-breaker, far as I'm concerned - especially when there are very few characters that I deem worth liking in the first place.

52 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

did you atleast try to play a few chapters to deem it so?

I'm largely driven by first impressions - and Thracia flunked the first impression test miserably, as far as I'm concerned. Also, I'm of the mind that I should not have to endure a bad game before I can say it is bad.