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Would you trust any other developer with FE?


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1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I'm largely driven by first impressions - and Thracia flunked the first impression test miserably, as far as I'm concerned. Also, I'm of the mind that I should not have to endure a bad game before I can say it is bad.

That goes against pretty much every principle of fair criticism and judgement.

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8 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

sword using classes

Karin is a pegasus Knight, ya know? a Lance using class.

8 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

"you gotta bench this unit"

the game throws S-drinks at you tbh.

 

It's fine if you didn'T finish a game, but you should atleast try some chapters. I didn't finish Elibe FE for example, yet i did play some chapters before i nope'd out because i couldn't take it anymore (especially FE6. That was a horrible experience).

Edited by Shrimperor
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21 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

Karin is a pegasus Knight, ya know? a Lance using class.

Maybe I was thinking more of the promotion of said class, which does use swords (at least in other games; maybe I got confused because Pegasus Knights in the title before did use swords even when unpromoted).

21 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

the game throws S-drinks at you tbh.

 

It's fine if you didn'T finish a game, but you should atleast try some chapters. I didn't finish Elibe FE for example, yet i did play some chapters before i nope'd out because i couldn't take it anymore (especially FE6. That was a horrible experience).

It's still a massive sore spot tbh.

I don't feel the need to waste my time when I know I will be proven right in the end... and possibly rather quickly at that. The gameplay is what draws me to - or repulses me away from - a game first and foremost, and I don't see Thracia's gameplay as good enough to make it worth my time.

1 hour ago, OakTree said:

I personally consider Fatigue in Thracia as a badly-implemented mechanic because it just doesn't punish the player enough, it's supposed to stop players from lowmanning, but the fact that Thracia just loves to shower the player with S-Drinks means they can just trivialize stuff and use the exact same team throught the entire game with no reason to have any variance.

To make Fatigue work well, literally all you would have to do is make S-Drinks not buyable.

I don't think so - not when it can potentially give rise to situations where I'm screwed out of being able to recruit a unit because their recruiter got fatigued.

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13 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I don't think so - not when it can potentially give rise to situations where I'm screwed out of being able to recruit a unit because their recruiter got fatigued.

Levant.

Anyway, and pardon my curtness, but this is a you problem. Especially if you know how the mechanic works, then you're the one that needs to plan accordingly, like with literally anything else... And you get a healthy amount of S Drinks so this doesn't happen. Not using them and landing in this situation is, again, a you problem. Additionally, you don't even need to actually use the S Drink, just let the desired character hold it and that's that.

tl;dr stamina/fatigue in this game is as overblown as staves missing

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31 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I don't think so - not when it can potentially give rise to situations where I'm screwed out of being able to recruit a unit because their recruiter got fatigued.

You seem to misunderstand what the mechanic's inclusion is meant to incentivize in you, the player, Fatigue isn't designed to make you use your units until they are fatigued and then switch to someone else, it's designed so that you become wary of it and constantly switch up your team to make sure no unit gets fatigued in the first place, remember, units gain back their full stamina any time they are not deployed, regardless of whether they were fatigued or not, meaning the player is always incentivized to be switching up their team and keepin things varied.

The recruitment problem is definitely a possibility, but it's a possibility the player should always be aware of, which agains, incentivizes the player to make sure nobody gets fatigued to begin with, and during the rare occasions someone does get fatigued and that unit is someone the player needs right now, he can bring out the S-Drinks (Which, again, should be kept in low quantities to match the few sittuations it is necessary in) to solve the issue.

Again, it's a mechanic that is meant to punish players so they can be incentivized to do what's necessary to avoid said punishment.

Edited by OakTree
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best thing about Staves missing - My Safy was able to get 3 Levels because she missed like 20 heals in ch3 :'D

Otherwise, i despise that mechanic really.

49 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I don't think so - not when it can potentially give rise to situations where I'm screwed out of being able to recruit a unit because their recruiter got fatigued.

S-Drinks

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1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I'm largely driven by first impressions - and Thracia flunked the first impression test miserably, as far as I'm concerned. Also, I'm of the mind that I should not have to endure a bad game before I can say it is bad.

Games are interactive so yes, you really do need to at least play through some chapters of an FE game if you want your opinion to have merit.

 

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45 minutes ago, OakTree said:

You seem to misunderstand what the mechanic's inclusion is meant to incentivize in you, the player, Fatigue isn't designed to make you use your units until they are fatigued and then switch to someone else, it's designed so that you become wary of it and constantly switch up your team to make sure no unit gets fatigued in the first place, remember, units gain back their full stamina any time they are not deployed, regardless of whether they were fatigued or not, meaning the player is always incentivized to be switching up their team and keepin things varied.

The recruitment problem is definitely a possibility, but it's a possibility the player should always be aware of, which agains, incentivizes the player to make sure nobody gets fatigued to begin with, and during the rare occasions someone does get fatigued and that unit is someone the player needs right now, he can bring out the S-Drinks (Which, again, should be kept in low quantities to match the few sittuations it is necessary in) to solve the issue.

Again, it's a mechanic that is meant to punish players so they can be incentivized to do what's necessary to avoid said punishment.

None of this makes it a good mechanic, though.

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4 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

how are those bad?

Even CQ's Escape map was an everyone escape map.

Because anyone who didn't escape before Leif was lost, which could easily screw over anyone who wasn't tipped off beforehand.

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

Pegasi don't get sword upon promo in T76

I know - I might have been thinking that they did because they used swords in the previous game.

1 hour ago, OakTree said:

You seem to misunderstand what the mechanic's inclusion is meant to incentivize in you, the player, Fatigue isn't designed to make you use your units until they are fatigued and then switch to someone else, it's designed so that you become wary of it and constantly switch up your team to make sure no unit gets fatigued in the first place, remember, units gain back their full stamina any time they are not deployed, regardless of whether they were fatigued or not, meaning the player is always incentivized to be switching up their team and keepin things varied.

The recruitment problem is definitely a possibility, but it's a possibility the player should always be aware of, which agains, incentivizes the player to make sure nobody gets fatigued to begin with, and during the rare occasions someone does get fatigued and that unit is someone the player needs right now, he can bring out the S-Drinks (Which, again, should be kept in low quantities to match the few sittuations it is necessary in) to solve the issue.

Again, it's a mechanic that is meant to punish players so they can be incentivized to do what's necessary to avoid said punishment.

And that, as I see it, is a problem - I don't like the fact that Thracia seems to actively punish players who go in blind. That, as far as I'm concerned, is questionable at best, and outright bad design at worst.

1 hour ago, Soledai said:

Levant.

Anyway, and pardon my curtness, but this is a you problem. Especially if you know how the mechanic works, then you're the one that needs to plan accordingly, like with literally anything else... And you get a healthy amount of S Drinks so this doesn't happen. Not using them and landing in this situation is, again, a you problem. Additionally, you don't even need to actually use the S Drink, just let the desired character hold it and that's that.

tl;dr stamina/fatigue in this game is as overblown as staves missing

And I hope you will forgive me for being blunt, but it is more than enough to make it not worth playing in my eyes. Especially after my disillusionment with FE as a series.

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6 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Because anyone who didn't escape before Leif was lost, which could easily screw over anyone who wasn't tipped off beforehand.

''I can't do that! When I escape, so does everyone else!'' -Leif, ch4

Is pretty vague, true, but could be seen as a hint. And tbh, who doesn't know by now how T776 escape maps work.

 

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11 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

And I hope you will forgive me for being blunt, but it is more than enough to make it not worth playing in my eyes. Especially after my disillusionment with FE as a series.

So, uh, why are you here?  This IS a FE forum and all.

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25 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

And I hope you will forgive me for being blunt, but it is more than enough to make it not worth playing in my eyes. Especially after my disillusionment with FE as a series.

Hmm? If I read this another way, "I'd have to put in effort to prevent this, I don't want to play it". I'm sure that's not your intent, but that's how it can be read.

16 minutes ago, eclipse said:

So, uh, why are you here?  This IS a FE forum and all.

Tbf, some people do like to wait for the one(tm) that dispels all their doubts, worries, and whatnot, maybe... idk if that's the case here!

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2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Because anyone who didn't escape before Leif was lost, which could easily screw over anyone who wasn't tipped off beforehand.

Are you seriously, without any hint of irony using mistranslations when judging whether a game is good or not? The original japanese script makes it obvious Leif has to escape after everyone else.

2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

And that, as I see it, is a problem - I don't like the fact that Thracia seems to actively punish players who go in blind. That, as far as I'm concerned, is questionable at best, and outright bad design at worst.

Is permadeath a bad mechanic because a player can let Unit A, who recruits Unit B in Chapter C, die? No, because players shouldn't let their units die.in the first place. Do you get the analogy here?

2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

And I hope you will forgive me for being blunt, but it is more than enough to make it not worth playing in my eyes. Especially after my disillusionment with FE as a series.

I'll give you props, hearing someone who has Fates as their favorite game in the series be the one who is all doom-and-gloom-y about the future of the franchise is not something i see everyday.

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On 4/30/2018 at 8:21 PM, Purple Mage said:

No. In my opinion, each game developer fulfills a certain niche in the industry. Nintendo makes games for all ages, IS produces the more complex games (FE, Advance Wars, Paper Mario), Square Enix makes JRPGs, Capcom is a jack-of-all-trades, Konami manufactures gachapon, Bethesda makes open-world RPGs, EA cranks out greedy cash-grabs, Supercell does the same on a smaller scale but doubles down on the microtransactions, and so on. Trying to make one studio make another's game is not a good idea. For example, if you asked Square Enix to develop the next FE, it would be like asking the janitor to do the plumber's work.

This is why I'd exactly be cool with Capcom giving it a go. Minish Cap was absolutely fantastic, and it really felt like a Zelda game while having some uniqueness.

 

7 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

Also, while i do have aloooooot of problems with Kaga's game design, i respect the guy for trying something different every time. Even if the results vary. He just needs someone to control his craziness a bit and to test his experimenting.

Basically this. My other big issue with Kaga was that his UIs never quite felt as smooth. Like Tearring Saga came out around the same time as FE6, but for whatever reason felt a hell of a lot more sluggish in terms of picking and moving units. It's easily fixable, but it's just something that bugged me.

 

5 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I don't feel the need to waste my time when I know I will be proven right in the end... and possibly rather quickly at that. The gameplay is what draws me to - or repulses me away from - a game first and foremost, and I don't see Thracia's gameplay as good enough to make it worth my time.

It's really hard to take theory-crafting criticisms seriously especially when someone's this close-minded about it. Yeah, you can get a feel for something anecdotally, but there really isn't a replacement for personally experiencing something. From the sounds of Heroes, I didn't think I'd like it much since at first glance seems like a stripped down Fire Emblem, but it's actually hands down my favorite mobile game and has some tweaks I think could be cool in proper FEs. I would tell you you should try it to see how it actually works in practice, but you seem to have yourself so convinced that it'll be the worst thing ever that I can't actually believe you'd go into it with an open mind and will probably, consciously or subconsciously, force yourself to nitpick every little thing with it. So basically, I guess, just refrain from saying it's terrible when you don't have any practical experience with the thing you're criticizing. There's a difference between saying something sounds awful and something is awful.

 

5 hours ago, OakTree said:

You seem to misunderstand what the mechanic's inclusion is meant to incentivize in you, the player, Fatigue isn't designed to make you use your units until they are fatigued and then switch to someone else, it's designed so that you become wary of it and constantly switch up your team to make sure no unit gets fatigued in the first place, remember, units gain back their full stamina any time they are not deployed, regardless of whether they were fatigued or not, meaning the player is always incentivized to be switching up their team and keepin things varied.

The recruitment problem is definitely a possibility, but it's a possibility the player should always be aware of, which agains, incentivizes the player to make sure nobody gets fatigued to begin with, and during the rare occasions someone does get fatigued and that unit is someone the player needs right now, he can bring out the S-Drinks (Which, again, should be kept in low quantities to match the few sittuations it is necessary in) to solve the issue.

Again, it's a mechanic that is meant to punish players so they can be incentivized to do what's necessary to avoid said punishment.

I actually really like fatigue, but I was never hugely fond of that little aspect of fatigue since it is pretty hardline barring S-Drinks. It's been a while since I played 5, but from what I remember it's a lot easier to accidentally get someone over their fatigue limit and miss it than it is to accidentally miss someone dying. I always thought that just giving them massive stat penalties would've been good. That way, if you feel like you really need to bring them, than you can, but they'll be dead weight.

SoV I thought did a worse job with fatigue. All it really did was make longer dungeons more of a chore. Then again, dungeon crawling as a whole was another aspect that I really like the idea of, but needed some polishing.

 

Anyway, back on topic, like I said earlier, I think Capcom would be interesting to see their take on FE. Most games I've played by them are at least decent, and I think if they're given a series as popular as FE, they'd do their damnedest to deliver one that feels like the series and make sure it's of the highest quality. Minish Cap was a fantastic game that really did feel like a Zelda—have to agree that BotW doesn't quite feel like one—and at this point FE is big enough that I'm sure they'd put just as much effort into that.

I'd also really like Kaga back because I feel like I like a lot of his ideas more than I liked the changes that Awakening and Fates made. I will always prefer personal skills how FE4 and 5 did them to the class-based skills of Awakening and Fates, and I actually really liked both dismounting and fatigue, just again, they need some polish. Let Kaga come up with a bunch of ideas, but then have IS vet them and let them do the UI. It's sooo smooth now; it's fantastic. Like as much as I loved 7 at the time, even going back to that feels clunky, and that was a good bit better than TRS or anything pre-FE6. Then again, I haven't played Vesteria or Berwick, so maybe Kaga's improved there as well.

Those said, I am actually okay with IS's handling of the series. There are certain aspects I'm not especially fond of, and I didn't like Fates at all, but on the whole, I've liked the games and don't see myself disliking them in the future unless something drastically changes.

Edited by bottlegnomes
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On 5/12/2018 at 3:52 PM, OakTree said:

Are you seriously, without any hint of irony using mistranslations when judging whether a game is good or not? The original japanese script makes it obvious Leif has to escape after everyone else.

Fair enough, I guess.

On 5/12/2018 at 3:52 PM, OakTree said:

Is permadeath a bad mechanic because a player can let Unit A, who recruits Unit B in Chapter C, die? No, because players shouldn't let their units die.in the first place. Do you get the analogy here?

Not really, because I'm fine with permadeath. Not so much with fatigue, or at least the way Thracia handles it. Sure, I COULD vary my units to avoid it, but when there are very few likable units, I see little incentive to use others... Also, as was stated earlier, it's hard to miss someone dying.

On 5/12/2018 at 3:52 PM, OakTree said:

I'll give you props, hearing someone who has Fates as their favorite game in the series be the one who is all doom-and-gloom-y about the future of the franchise is not something i see everyday.

Believe it or not, my disillusionment started with Shadow Dragon. I still have not gotten over that... even if IS has learned from their mistakes since then.

On 5/12/2018 at 4:42 PM, bottlegnomes said:

It's really hard to take theory-crafting criticisms seriously especially when someone's this close-minded about it. Yeah, you can get a feel for something anecdotally, but there really isn't a replacement for personally experiencing something. From the sounds of Heroes, I didn't think I'd like it much since at first glance seems like a stripped down Fire Emblem, but it's actually hands down my favorite mobile game and has some tweaks I think could be cool in proper FEs. I would tell you you should try it to see how it actually works in practice, but you seem to have yourself so convinced that it'll be the worst thing ever that I can't actually believe you'd go into it with an open mind and will probably, consciously or subconsciously, force yourself to nitpick every little thing with it. So basically, I guess, just refrain from saying it's terrible when you don't have any practical experience with the thing you're criticizing. There's a difference between saying something sounds awful and something is awful.

I cannot speak much on Heroes, having given up on it for reasons I don't know, but with all the hype the Jugdral games get, I would expect them to actually be worth my time, instead of being so full of flaws that negatively impact my ability to play and enjoy them. As it is, they would need a really good remake for me to even consider playing them (and for me to not consider the Jugdral games the Dark Ages of Fire Emblem)... which I do not trust IS to do.

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1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I cannot speak much on Heroes, having given up on it for reasons I don't know, but with all the hype the Jugdral games get, I would expect them to actually be worth my time, instead of being so full of flaws that negatively impact my ability to play and enjoy them. As it is, they would need a really good remake for me to even consider playing them (and for me to not consider the Jugdral games the Dark Ages of Fire Emblem)... which I do not trust IS to do.

I think you missed my point. I wasn't saying that you absolutely have to give it a chance. I was saying since you seem so adamant on disliking them, then please just refrain from speaking authoritatively on the quality of things you don't have experience with. I take no issue with you saying those elements sound awful, though, since that implies hypothetical extrapolation.

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10 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Not really, because I'm fine with permadeath. Not so much with fatigue, or at least the way Thracia handles it. Sure, I COULD vary my units to avoid it, but when there are very few likable units, I see little incentive to use others... Also, as was stated earlier, it's hard to miss someone dying.

Well, then we'lll just have to disagree, in my opinion, stopping the player from lowmanning is a far, far bigger priority than letting them use whatever unit they want to use, i completely separate "Units i like as characters" and "Units i find fun to use" as a player, so to me, unit composition and selection as parts of the game should themselves favor interesting effects on balance over giving lots of freedom, but running the risk of letting players ruin the balance of the game.

Also, you exaggerate the crypticness of fatigue, FE5 has a lot of crypticness which i won't even defend, i myself find a most of it stupid, but as far as fatigue goes, just don't use the same units in two chapters in a row and the only units that'll have any significant risk of actually hitting fatigue are staff users.

10 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Believe it or not, my disillusionment started with Shadow Dragon. I still have not gotten over that... even if IS has learned from their mistakes since then.

Interesting, i personally don't really like Fates' gameplay, to me it feels like a case of IS refusing to learn from what i perceive as mistakes from Awakening, higher emphasis on skills, dual attack and guard, weapons with demerits and no durability, it's all just annoying to keep track of. I like some of the maps, like some of those in Conquest, but even then, i like them in spite of Fates' mechanics than because of them.

10 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I cannot speak much on Heroes, having given up on it for reasons I don't know, but with all the hype the Jugdral games get, I would expect them to actually be worth my time, instead of being so full of flaws that negatively impact my ability to play and enjoy them. As it is, they would need a really good remake for me to even consider playing them (and for me to not consider the Jugdral games the Dark Ages of Fire Emblem)... which I do not trust IS to do.

I mean, you cannot speak much on the Judgral games either since you haven't finished either. Even if you hate all of your experience with something, you have to finish that something before your arguments can hold as much weight as those of someone who has finished it, that's a standard for discussion and criticism most people agree on.

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On 5/14/2018 at 9:07 PM, OakTree said:

Well, then we'lll just have to disagree, in my opinion, stopping the player from lowmanning is a far, far bigger priority than letting them use whatever unit they want to use, i completely separate "Units i like as characters" and "Units i find fun to use" as a player, so to me, unit composition and selection as parts of the game should themselves favor interesting effects on balance over giving lots of freedom, but running the risk of letting players ruin the balance of the game.

Also, you exaggerate the crypticness of fatigue, FE5 has a lot of crypticness which i won't even defend, i myself find a most of it stupid, but as far as fatigue goes, just don't use the same units in two chapters in a row and the only units that'll have any significant risk of actually hitting fatigue are staff users.

Well, I don't mind preventing lowmanning - I just want it done without adding stuff that makes the game a serious pain in the ass to play. And that is where Thracia tripped over itself imo. Fates also killed lowmanning, except it did so by making the experience curve harsher on higher level units, which I'm more receptive of. Anyways, most of the characters I like are chosen based on design or personality. With the latter not being much of a factor in the earlier games... also, I find it kinda hard to preach about balance when this series serves up units like Nino who are obviously much more trouble than they're worth...

I'm not saying fatigue is cryptic - I AM, however, saying it's a cancerous mechanic that is a constant annoyance and makes me want nothing to do with the game.

On 5/14/2018 at 9:07 PM, OakTree said:

Interesting, i personally don't really like Fates' gameplay, to me it feels like a case of IS refusing to learn from what i perceive as mistakes from Awakening, higher emphasis on skills, dual attack and guard, weapons with demerits and no durability, it's all just annoying to keep track of. I like some of the maps, like some of those in Conquest, but even then, i like them in spite of Fates' mechanics than because of them.

Personally, I liked the removal of durability. I think durability does not really add anything to the strategic aspect of the game. In fact, I dare say the most prolific effects durability has on strategy are negative

On 5/14/2018 at 9:07 PM, OakTree said:

I mean, you cannot speak much on the Judgral games either since you haven't finished either. Even if you hate all of your experience with something, you have to finish that something before your arguments can hold as much weight as those of someone who has finished it, that's a standard for discussion and criticism most people agree on.

The thing is, even without playing it, I still know Genealogy is characterized by its giant maps, which I don't like, especially when dealing with a game that is already slow and clunky. It's just plain obvious that it'll be a MASSIVE exercise in tedium. I don't have that much time to invest... and the mechanics do not help. Thracia does not have the map problem that Genealogy does, but it has too many quirks I find to be big turn-offs.

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On 18/05/2018 at 4:24 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Well, I don't mind preventing lowmanning - I just want it done without adding stuff that makes the game a serious pain in the ass to play. And that is where Thracia tripped over itself imo. Fates also killed lowmanning, except it did so by making the experience curve harsher on higher level units, which I'm more receptive of. Anyways, most of the characters I like are chosen based on design or personality. With the latter not being much of a factor in the earlier games... also, I find it kinda hard to preach about balance when this series serves up units like Nino who are obviously much more trouble than they're worth...

I'm not saying fatigue is cryptic - I AM, however, saying it's a cancerous mechanic that is a constant annoyance and makes me want nothing to do with the game.

Cutting EXP does nothing to stop lowmanning, Conquest achieves the act of stopping the player of lowmanning mostly through map design that forces a large ammount of units to deal with many problems, with broken units being incapable of dealing with every problem at the same time, but even then, it only applies to Conquest, the other two routes make little attempts at incentivizing the player to use more than few units.

And there is also the fact this only covers the unit number aspect of lowmanning, not the unit composition one, switching up your roster is rarely incetivized in any route of Fates, and using the same team throught the entire game is always the optimal way of doing things.

On 18/05/2018 at 4:24 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Personally, I liked the removal of durability. I think durability does not really add anything to the strategic aspect of the game. In fact, I dare say the most prolific effects durability has on strategy are negative

I'd rather have durability than what Fates did with it's weapon balance, yeah, durability often causes people to hoard, but that's on the player and not the game, Jagen units aren't a bad concept just because in practice many novice players refuse to use them for dumb reasons, and the same can be said about durability.

On 18/05/2018 at 4:24 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

The thing is, even without playing it, I still know Genealogy is characterized by its giant maps, which I don't like, especially when dealing with a game that is already slow and clunky. It's just plain obvious that it'll be a MASSIVE exercise in tedium. I don't have that much time to invest... and the mechanics do not help. Thracia does not have the map problem that Genealogy does, but it has too many quirks I find to be big turn-offs.

That's fair if you're not actually acting as if you're judging the game as a whole instead of simply what you played of it. explaining why you don't want to play the game is one thing, calling them the Dark Age of Fire Emblem without finishing them is another.

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10 hours ago, OakTree said:

Cutting EXP does nothing to stop lowmanning, Conquest achieves the act of stopping the player of lowmanning mostly through map design that forces a large ammount of units to deal with many problems, with broken units being incapable of dealing with every problem at the same time, but even then, it only applies to Conquest, the other two routes make little attempts at incentivizing the player to use more than few units.

And there is also the fact this only covers the unit number aspect of lowmanning, not the unit composition one, switching up your roster is rarely incetivized in any route of Fates, and using the same team throught the entire game is always the optimal way of doing things.

Even though the stricter exp curve prevents you from getting a big level lead over the enemy? (To put things into perspective, when you kill an enemy, you get 4 less exp for every level the enemy is below you; that's pretty noticeable compared to prior FE games) Using Ryoma's join chapter in Birthright for an example, the unpromoted units are mostly level 14. Besides the pre-promoted units, it's highly unlikely you would have any promoted units of your own at that point... and the pre-promoted units are going to be gaining next to no exp from the unpromoted units in that chapter. Anyway, my point is, low-manning in Fates WEAKENS your team, instead of strengthening it.

I would much rather have no incentive to switch units than be encouraged to switch units regularly for all the wrong reasons. And isn't that true of most FE games (read: every one of them bar Gaiden/SoV, Genealogy, which allows you to deploy everyone, and Thracia) anyway? Because constantly switching units is the very definition of counter-intuitive when you cannot grind.

11 hours ago, OakTree said:

I'd rather have durability than what Fates did with it's weapon balance, yeah, durability often causes people to hoard, but that's on the player and not the game, Jagen units aren't a bad concept just because in practice many novice players refuse to use them for dumb reasons, and the same can be said about durability.

I would not mind durability so much if there was any legitimate strategic merit to it... which I have yet to see. The last game with durability had a skill that had a chance to prevent weapon degradation, not to mention being able to get infinities of everything (albeit with DLC needed for the rare weapons). I find that concerning. Hell, I would go so far as to say durability became an afterthought when Sacred Stones came along, considering that said game allowed you to buy standard weapons on the prep screen. And that came along in 2005. If that's not enough to make it obvious that durability is little more than a legacy feature without any real strategic merit, I don't know what is.

11 hours ago, OakTree said:

That's fair if you're not actually acting as if you're judging the game as a whole instead of simply what you played of it. explaining why you don't want to play the game is one thing, calling them the Dark Age of Fire Emblem without finishing them is another.

Maybe so, but with all the hype they get, I cannot help but be wary.

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4 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Even though the stricter exp curve prevents you from getting a big level lead over the enemy? (To put things into perspective, when you kill an enemy, you get 4 less exp for every level the enemy is below you; that's pretty noticeable compared to prior FE games) Using Ryoma's join chapter in Birthright for an example, the unpromoted units are mostly level 14. Besides the pre-promoted units, it's highly unlikely you would have any promoted units of your own at that point... and the pre-promoted units are going to be gaining next to no exp from the unpromoted units in that chapter. Anyway, my point is, low-manning in Fates WEAKENS your team, instead of strengthening it.

No, Birthright is a Corrinfest until it turns into a Ryomafest, even in Lunatic, all you need is two other units to be Dual Guard fodder for both of them and there, you beat the game, the EXP cut does nothing to change that. Rev also is not better about this, many players just use the royals plus Corrin and Azura and even that can be a little overkill.

4 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I would much rather have no incentive to switch units than be encouraged to switch units regularly for all the wrong reasons. And isn't that true of most FE games (read: every one of them bar Gaiden/SoV, Genealogy, which allows you to deploy everyone, and Thracia) anyway? Because constantly switching units is the very definition of counter-intuitive when you cannot grind.

There is a reason lowmanning is considered a constant problem throught the series.

4 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I would not mind durability so much if there was any legitimate strategic merit to it... which I have yet to see. The last game with durability had a skill that had a chance to prevent weapon degradation, not to mention being able to get infinities of everything (albeit with DLC needed for the rare weapons). I find that concerning. Hell, I would go so far as to say durability became an afterthought when Sacred Stones came along, considering that said game allowed you to buy standard weapons on the prep screen. And that came along in 2005. If that's not enough to make it obvious that durability is little more than a legacy feature without any real strategic merit, I don't know what is.

Durability adds no strategy, but it adds to inventory balance, an earlygame Silver Weapon would be too good and too dominating if it could be used throught the entire game, but because of durability, most FE games help balance that out, in Fates meanwhile, we have stuff like the earlygame prepromote starting off with an Iron Dagger and there only being one single Killing Edge in the entire game.

Edited by OakTree
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