Twitch Plays Pokemon Mafia NOC(15p)(GAME OVER TOWN WINS)

[Killthestory]

baldrick i might have to lynch you based off spiritual interference

[Baldrick]

9 hours ago, Refa said:

1. You keep on using distant, as if that's a good reason to scumread someone this late in.  I don't think Scum!SB would be frustrated if I caught on to his buddying attempt.  Also I like, literally explained my read on SB in my first D2 post. 

Also, I want to focus on this last point.  Why does Scum!SB selectively defend me from Conqueror but not you?

2. But he switched before he got any backlash or most other people were on...

1. By sitting back and letting others lynch Evan, it's a similar thing to not engaging with your scumreads - avoiding getting heat. I don't see how you can be OK with one but not the other.

I don't actually have an answer for that. Maybe my case was so strong that he literally couldn't dispute it.

2. It was for about 12 hours, he got lukewarm interest (but no votes apart from you) and Shinori/Conqueror weren't agreeing with it.

[Baldrick]

15 minutes ago, Killthestory said:

baldrick i might have to lynch you based off spiritual interference

It'd be a shame if someone poured hot wax all over this voodoo doll I made. I'd imagine it'd hurt quite a bit.

[SB.]

@Baldrick Pushing three people on associative without flips is crazy. I can’t even tell why you’re scumreading me beyond moving off of Eury and I don’t see why you’re scumreading Refa at all beyond associative based pushes. You post just sounds like “oh yes, there is a wagon on SB, let’s lynch that” when I wasn’t in your priority before. This is ridiculously opportunistic.

@Conqueror I don’t even think that my play this game has been that safe. I tried to derail the RAD wagon post claim which was not ever going to be lynched if it survived the day, and I tried breaking up your fight with Refa which I could have just taken either side on but instead thought you both looked better from it. Maybe I haven’t had super strong pushes, but that’s hard when your scumreads are mostly inactive and disappear from the thread for days at a time.

I didn’t have a strong read on Orihime’s slot at the time but after D2 with RAD very likely to flip town the P5 comparison came to mind and a totally dead slot like that fit it. I assumed Eleminia would come back but they didn’t, and instead we got Ori’s case on me which I addressed that I dislike.

@Eury What stops townori from claiming kinda haphazardly here? Stuff like this happens kind of a lot (Marth in Kemono friends is an example).

@Snike what do you think of Orihime’s push on me? What is your read on the Conq slot as a whole?

Wrote most of that before class this morning and ran out of time to actually post before getting busy. I know I have a Eury and Conq wall to respond to but my brain is kinda mush and I’m mobile. Probably not getting to them today.

@Baldrick because I know you’re around now and don’t want to give you a night phase to come up with an answer.

[Jaybee]

let's try this again

also i found conq's followup to his athena case no need to show it to me now

 

sorry at this point i decided to hyperspeed through the thread. weekends are ass.

i feel like Conq is trying to push this Refa read super super hard. Coming up with scenarios for Refa/Bart interactions, the reaction to Shinori's gambit, etc.

What exactly is scummy about Refa's being passive wrt his Athena case at end D2? Isn't the right play as both town and scum to push another player as hard as possible, if you're going down that road? Is this poor play, or scummy play? 

I hve not fully read Conq/Refa and I don't intend to unless I live to D4. Feels like a lot of misrep and mudslinging 'well if you don't believe it then w/e lol' coming from both sides. Take my skimread view as being sheeping whatever SB says about TownRefa.

Don't like how Conq waffles on his Ice Sage read when "Ice Sage is new" covers basically all his points about Ice Sage and I feel his D2 post 1 still stands.

On 20/05/2018 at 2:16 AM, Shinori said:

In my eyes after looking over Ice's posts I get the feeling that they are playing nervously. Or very anxious, you know as if they don't want to get caught.

isn't 'i don't want to die' a reasonable mentality as a newbtown?

On 20/05/2018 at 2:25 AM, Conqueror said:

Your scumflip wouldn't implicate Randa for the very reason you stated below - he's a consensus scumread. Scum would be more likely to go in for the bus for cred than stay off the wagon. In fact, given that RAD stopped posting on D2, I thought that scum were almost guaranteed to be bussing.

is this a very roundabout way of using wifom

On 20/05/2018 at 3:18 AM, SB. said:

@Jaybee How has the Randa flip affected your reads?

D1 Votals:

Spoiler

(7) Evan: Vi-astra, Killthestory, Ice Sage, Refa, Jaybee, Elemina, RADicate
(5) RADicate: Athena_57, Baldrick, Eurykins, Bartozio, Shinori
(1) Refa: Rapier
(1) Ice Sage: EvanManManMan
(1) Athena_57: SB

Thoughts: Scum does not all in on one wagon, they're most likely split 2/1/1 or 2/2. The Rad scum is Bart or Eury, quite possibly both. Innocent Townies and opportunistic scum could have easily been pulled onto Evan wagon because of Universal Townread Via and Evan's terrible play. Most likely scum reads (as of page 25) are  KTS and Mack/Elemina/Orihime. (fun fact: I was quickbrowsing 2012 games. 7 years later, Via still gets killed N1. The more things change, the more they stay the same.)

super mindmeld with everything here except TownConq fyi

 

Orihime catch up makes me feel better about the slot. I can't get anything particularly alignment-indicative, but I see effort and personal analysis.

eury is so angry holy shit

 

16 hours ago, Killthestory said:

@Jaybee i'm not exactly sure what you want me to say? "oh yeah, my read changed, just didn't mention it." like, that's obviously what happened, but are you looking for something else? in my wolf game, i was pretty organized and on top of looking good while pushing people, and you're sort of just trying to push me because you don't know what's going on in my head? you can, y'know, ask me question, but you were the one saying i was very expressedly different from my wolf game and suddenly pull this sr on me out of your ass. it's funny because that's exactly what you're accusing me of doing with flipping my reads on people without a lot of prior discussion.

lol.

Actually, yes, I do want you to explain why and how your reads changed. Because if you're town and not explain your reads, I can't understand you. If you're scum and you don't explain your reads, it's because they're either bad or you don't want to contribute to gamesolving. I thought 

Of course I push people for not knowing what they're thinking - hell, I get called out for that too often. I did that to Mack/Elemina D2, I did it to Bibbon last game, I'm doing it to you now. I did ask you several questions (read on Refa, justify your Orihime/SB treatment), and your response is to... suddenly develop a scumread on me? How does this even work? Your first comment on me is here which I read as a super lazy low priority scumread backed up by nothing.

---

dislike eury's push on shinori's role. he might know he was visited, and a self-watcher doesn't seem like a townie role after... one flip, which is a vanilla??? You have a scumview of Refa's actions in the gambit, but where is the town inconsistency?

PEDIT: Found the response. I think Eury's explanation of this gambit is way way too convoluted and desperate. It's dependent on way too many things happening (e.g. Via being cop, town getting hardcore pocketed on it when for the most part, they haven't). 

---

hi bart what are you doing

---

I think SB/Shinori/Refa are all town supporting one another. I don't believe Scumnori and ScumRefa stage that gambit when the most likely candidate for a lynch D2 is TownRad (and if you've successfully pocketed me on this, well played), there's too little reward for too much gain. Townread SB because I don't think ScumSB leaves the possibility of redirecting off the Randa vote end D2. Athena townread also.

Snike still totally null, same as Ice Sage. Inconclusive on Orihime. I still haven't gotten to that Baldrick read either, he's unmemorable but like... not in a bad way (for 'bad unmemorable, see Bart).

OK with Bart or Eury going. Bart's done nothing to change my mind. I don't just think Eury is wrong about her scumteam, I think it's desperate and isn't being made in good faith. I've made this kind of weird-ass explanations and gambits before as scum, trying to paint other players in a bad light, when it turns out the simplest (and correct) answer was that I was scum all along. Also makes sense if she and Bart are scum together, get pushed as the 2 wagons, and she wants to direct the wagon to somebody else.

Need to fully reread Conqueror, there's a lot of little things and inconsistencies that I don't like but am not fully secure in. I'm sure a full ISO will give me a better grip on the slot but there's no time for that now. Don't like KTS also - explained enough on top.

##Vote: Bart

[Bluedoom]

phase ends in 28 minutes. 

[Baldrick]

4 minutes ago, SB. said:

@Baldrick Pushing three people on associative without flips is crazy.

I can’t even tell why you’re scumreading me beyond moving off of Eury and

I don’t see why you’re scumreading Refa at all beyond associative based pushes.

You post just sounds like “oh yes, there is a wagon on SB, let’s lynch that” when I wasn’t in your priority before. This is ridiculously opportunistic.

@Baldrick because I know you’re around now and don’t want to give you a night phase to come up with an answer.

Don't know what kind of answer you're wanting, but:

1) Not that crazy. I'm scumreading Refa and Bartozio, think their interactions are bad, and both of their interactions with you are bad.

2) That, and leaving your vote on Athena ED1. tbh, I only started looking into you based on Refa's read on you.

3) No. I've talked plenty about Refa based on his read on Randa.

4) That's not what I'm saying at all. You have the most votes out of the alternatives, so Bartozio's best chance, regardless of alignment, is to vote you. Why didn't he do that?

[Athena_57]

@Jaybee Since you're here, what do you make of Bart voting me instead of a counterwagon? Still struggling with understanding that atm.

[Jaybee]

doesn't that feed better into a bart/eury scumteam? not wanting to lynch his scummate / taking one for the team by casing someone who's never dying

[Athena_57]

That's where my mind was drifting as well, thanks.

[SB.]

10 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Don't know what kind of answer you're wanting, but:

1) Not that crazy. I'm scumreading Refa and Bartozio, think their interactions are bad, and both of their interactions with you are bad.

2) That, and leaving your vote on Athena ED1. tbh, I only started looking into you based on Refa's read on you.

3) No. I've talked plenty about Refa based on his read on Randa.

4) That's not what I'm saying at all. You have the most votes out of the alternatives, so Bartozio's best chance, regardless of alignment, is to vote you. Why didn't he do that?

1) Associatives without a flip suck. Aside from that, I proposed to turbo Bart yesterday and tried to get people on board with it, and my interactions with Refa are because I've been townreading him. Why are these out of line with town!SB?

2) ED = end of? Why does me not moving back to Evan at the very end mean anything when I was around and he was going to be lynched anyway? If this is all you have on me then I have no idea why you'd be confident in this other than to buddy Conq.

3) People thought Refa was scum with Randa earlier in the game though. Did this not bother you if you think the interaction sucked from a town!Randa/scum!Refa perspective?

4) The dude was townreading me all game. There's no point in risking making me look better by counterwagoning me lol and he was never playing to survive if he didn't properly respond to his cases.

[Iris]

THE RETURN OF VOTAL BOT SIRI 10.0
Bartozio (7): athena_57, Killthestory, SB, Refa, Shinori, Snike, Jaybee
SB (2): Conqueror, Orihime
athena_57 (1): Bartozio
Refa (1): Baldrick

Not voting: Eurykins

Day 3 ends in ~4 minutes. With 12 alive, it takes 4 to lynch at deadline.

[SB.]

Writnig this REALLY FAST because 10 minutes but @Conqueror graveyard bias and guiltied bias aren't that different, you know somoene is maf so you get picky over small details. It won't be to the same extent but it should definitely be present in your play, and so I don't think Eury needed to necessarily tear into Refa but there should have been something more for the persont hat she'd been scumreading all game. Eury's response didn't feel in line with the rest of her play tonewise.

Why does scum!KTS try to discredit me here? For Eury or Bart? Because I don't think that he really tried to save either of them. Yeah scum can do this but they don't benefit from it.

I don't think town!Eury has a reason to hard case Shinori for such ridiculous reasons without considering the alternatives, but I guess you're right in that it doesn't make that much sense for scum!Eury either? I pointed specific stuff up earlier but don't have time to dig through the post again, but there are so many conspiracy theories and logic that she only applies to Shinori that I don't get it.

[Bluedoom]

phase end

[Baldrick]

4 minutes ago, SB. said:

1) Associatives without a flip suck. Aside from that, I proposed to turbo Bart yesterday and tried to get people on board with it, and my interactions with Refa are because I've been townreading him. Why are these out of line with town!SB?

2) ED = end of? Why does me not moving back to Evan at the very end mean anything when I was around and he was going to be lynched anyway? If this is all you have on me then I have no idea why you'd be confident in this other than to buddy Conq.

3) People thought Refa was scum with Randa earlier in the game though. Did this not bother you if you think the interaction sucked from a town!Randa/scum!Refa perspective?

4) The dude was townreading me all game. There's no point in risking making me look better by counterwagoning me lol and he was never playing to survive if he didn't properly respond to his cases.

1) Eury or Bart. I'd have to look into the opinions on Bart D2 to see if that was something that could gain traction with minutes left in the phase. Fair, but it's Refa's read on you that is telling to me.

2) You're less likely to get heat from being on his lynch.

3) Were people actually suggesting that as an interaction, or was it just because they happened to think both were scum?

4) I'll make an excuse I'm out of time and leave this until D4 when I can come up with a better answer

[SB.]

Like she would scumread Shinori for the Via kill but not KTS when they used it in the same way.

[Iris]

 

[Iris]

Bartozio was lynched! He was:

On 5/10/2018 at 9:42 PM, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Dear Bartozio,

You are Wattson, Then Mob's worst enemy and the third gym leader, in Twitch Plays Pokemon Emerald.

When The Mob tried to go up against you and win, you laughed at them and gave Camila numerous humiliating defeats! You tormented The Mob so much that they became frustrated and attempted to train Zexy, somehow resulting in Zexy's release. But you did not stop there. You proceeded to beat Camila for a total of twenty-one times by simply ordering your Pokemon to spam Sonicboom, Supersonic and Thunder wave, and  The Mob was overwhelmed. Luckily for The Mob, they trained Zexinja, the Shedinja which stored Zexy's soul after his death, and with his immunity to most of the moves in your arsenal, they beat you.

Since you were forgotten after being beaten (except for The Mob's desire to beat you again after beating the Elite Four), you have no special abilities.

In short you are a Goon. You are aligned with the Anti-Mob. You win when you achieve parity with The Mob.

Night 3 ends in 24 hours or as soon as all actions are received. Don't post in thread unless your Role PM says you can do so.

Consecutive Democracy (or Anarchy) may be voted for once per game, to vote, leave in your Role PM ##Vote: Democracy. With 11 alive, it would take 6 players voting for Democracy for D4 to be Democracy.

Please review the mechanics in the OP if you are confused about Democracy/Anarchy mechanics and ask questions in your Role PM if you need further questions answered.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Iris

[Bluedoom]

all actions in,phase end. 

[Iris]

Hmmm. You look in your PC and hope to withdraw your Mightyena, but you can't find him among all your Poochyena!

Snike has died! He was:

On 5/10/2018 at 10:04 PM, Magnificence Incarnate said:

Dear Ice Sage Snike,

You are Mighty Doge, Camilla A Slash's Mightyena, from Twitch Plays Pokemon Emerald.

Camilla had this uncanny affinity for Poochyena and kept catching them, even though they were weak. Perhaps she saw the Pokemon Anime and wanted to be like Ash and his Tauros Ranch! She kept catching a lot of Poochyena until she finally found you near Fortree City, in the tall grass. You were never really useful to her, always the first to get KO'd in most battles, but to your credit, you were in the final team that beat the Elite Four! You're seen as a corrupt cop who is only concerned about the welfare of his young ones!

Once at night, reply in your role PM as follows: "Night X- Protect USER with Roar!" USER will be protected from any kill on them that night.

In short, you are a 1x Doctor. You are allied with The Mob and win when all threats to The Mob are eliminated.

It is now Day 4. It is also Anarchy. Phase ends in 48 hours which is May 24th 3 PM GMT.

Anarchy Phase Reminders:
- Anarchy is 48 hours instead of Democracy which is 72 hours.
- Each player only has 5 posts for the phase, unless their Role PM says otherwise.
- Votes are made in the role PM (respond to Role PM with ##Vote: USER.
- At the end of the phase the player with the most votes gets lynched.
- At the end of the day, the number of votes on each player will be shown, but not who voted who.

[Shinori]

##Vote: Baldrick

This is probably scum lynch today.  SB/kts are my secondaries after that.  More on this later. After that it would be conq >orihime

Bartozio literally has ZERO interactions with Baldrick and his interactions with SB/KTS are also poor.

He has a complete 180 on his reads on Baldrick/KTS from d1-d2.  He lists SB's as a town read while shading him pretty hard and in a weird way in the process on D2.  Bart's weird vote/unvote against SB in early D1 is also extremely bad/weird to me.

I actually typed this up last night and I'm just mainly copy pasting while on break. 

Snikes death makes me think scum either has a role cop or a watcher.  Only 4 posts left and I plan to try and use these more carefully but I wanted to put my say in about this now. 

[SB.]

I'd say that scum Rolecopped that but uh 1x doc so lol.

##Vote: Baldrick

I meant to reread overnight but I went to nap so I only managed to read a few players over.

Still think Eury is scummy, but after looking again I can see more of her play from the perspective of a townie playing badly. I want to see where she progresses her suspicions to today because Shinori is just not the correct lynch. She never actually made content on Bartozio like she promised iirc, but I'm hesitant to vote her on it because it looks like she straight forgot and honestly I'm not sure if she would do that if he was her scumbuddy. Also I kind of think that angry tunneling maf will get itself killed anyway, if that is Eury's alignment. What did you get from the Bart flip?

Baldrick bothers me a lot because I don't think he's had a lot of strong opinions. If Refa is scummy for blatant sheeping (ftr I think this is null) then Baldrick deserves criticism because I felt like he was trying to hard buddy up to Conq last phase and get in his good books. Mostly though I don't find his later postings in the phase realistic (our interaction and the Bart-Refa-SB trinity of scum) from town. It felt like he'd decided that Bart was sunk and was trying to set things up for the rest of the game going forward so he wouldn't be criticised on his pushes and he could flip between me/Refa depending on who fell under fire. I also don't think he ever pushed Bart himself particularly strongly.

I considered scum!Conq briefly but in the end I don't really think it's likely. His push on me is kind of frustrating in that he's not really reading around the people who actually agree with him as far as I can see but I can see it from bullheaded town. I want to know what he's thinking about Baldrick because I think the way he's kind of glueing himself to you looks weird. Don't get why Orihime thinks that I'm buddies with KTS but also trying to use the argument to look better. How do these match up? Do you think we planned to do that while I was drunk?

@Shinori why does scum!Bart need to shade me if I'm his buddy? There's no sense drawing attention to me if we're scum together because he's just going to look worse. Explain on the KTS stuff as well because I don't have time to check that.

[Snike]

[Refa]

@Shinori Snike was crumbing doctor here.

On 5/20/2018 at 8:58 PM, Snike said:

Shinori I'm going to be blunt; this strikes me as you being incredibly dense. Do you want me to spell it out or should we keep dancing around this?

His townread of you despite not reading the game only made sense as Doctor to me.  It was a good play if he was only a 1x Doctor though.

Why did you guys vote Anarchy lol.

SB, I used my night action on you.  My role changed after RAD died, which is kind of poetic (it was weird because it wasn't written in my Role PM that my role would change...).  I also used my night action on Athena and only that action failed, which bothers me.  Has anyone else successfully targeted Athena the whole game?  Why does my action fail on Town!Athena?  @SB. @Shinori @Killthestory Legitimately asking because I was confident that he was town after yesterday, but now I'm like ???.

Baldrick is a good lynch, I'm more bothered by Orihime though.  Her defense of Bartozio read as super weird to me, like "he's an obvious mislynch, so we shouldn't go after him guys" despite all evidence to the contrary.  I don't think holding that opinion initially is scummy, but when she didn't reevaluate it, it came across as a bad defense of a scumbuddy to me.  I'm voting Baldrick despite this because town needs to consolidate on a vote here.

##Vote: Baldrick

[Athena_57]

Post 1/5 :(

There are a bunch of people I need to reread (I've only ctrl+f'd "Bart" and went through the thread that way), but as of now:

Bart was townreading Eury quite early and called her "consensus town" mid day 1, when that was debatable in my eyes. In all of Eury's walls I've only found a few small mentions on Bart and no actual read iirc. I remember liking Eury's day 3 walls though, this is one of the slots I'll reread.

I guess I'm willing to consolidate on Baldrick, SB's notion that he's been unclear on his gamestance is correct, I'll have to reread though.

Orihime looks the worst in my eyes, their repeated Bart defenses were ??? and their back and forth posting with me left me with a bad impression of them. This might be because I just disagree with their answers, but the whole thing felt off to me, like they were making excuses.

Additionally, this bothered me:

 

On ‎20‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 7:21 AM, Orihime said:

 

While I was trying to skim back and look for day 3 start I saw Refa’s claimed role about making the lights go away and showing the vote. While that is a pro town move I dislike how they pointed out as it being a pro town role. Let me go back and quote it

<Quote of Refa's reply to Shinori's "guilty">

Now I don’t know about the invest results/guilty claims but I will admit I like the reaction here of asking to not go after the person claiming he’s guilty scum are more likely to wiggle out of it (with the tailor claim) and discredit the invest/go after them but that doesn’t seem to be the case here. (SWEET JESUS THE LAG I also learned I can't go add text to before quotes yikes)

 

On ‎20‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 8:07 AM, Orihime said:

<Conqueror saying Refa's reaction to guilty was bad>

3) I really like this post because I agree with it (if that was the standpoint) if Shin was Refa’s top sr and shin guilied him the reaction I’d expect myself would be “oh this is scum lynch it after me” but it turned into a flip. Was Refa flipping the read right away? I’m looking forward to seeing the answer to this

 

These posts were made within an hour of each other. I understand reads can change, but how can you make a 180 on an action so quickly?

##Vote: Orihime

1 hour ago, Refa said:

SB, I used my night action on you.  My role changed after RAD died, which is kind of poetic (it was weird because it wasn't written in my Role PM that my role would change...).  I also used my night action on Athena and only that action failed, which bothers me.  Has anyone else successfully targeted Athena the whole game?  Why does my action fail on Town!Athena?  @SB. @Shinori @Killthestory Legitimately asking because I was confident that he was town after yesterday, but now I'm like ???.

You can ask me instead. I can confirm my role caused your action to fail on me. If you really want me to claim the ability, I will, I'd rather not though. I'm willing to divulge I'm not an ascetic (RAD successfully targeted me N1, no need for others to claim). Out of curiosity, why are you surprised this action fails on town!me specifically?