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Rate the Unit, Day 92: Brave Ephraim & Brave Veronica


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Welcome, mongrels, to another round of RTU.
*hears the groans of agony & pain*
Mmmmm~, sumanai.

RTU stands for "Rate The Unit". Every day we will have a pair of Heroes we can discuss and you can vote for them with a score of your choice. At the end of each day we will tally the votes and give you the averages of all the votes.
But first, rules. Read them.

Rules:
- Arena use is assumed.
- Skill Inheritance is allowed.
- If you are giving a rating, assume that they are in their best possible state (skill inheritance, merges, 5* rarity) that you see fit.
- Arena scoring is omitted.
- You can give scores between 0-10 with 0.5 decimals if you need them.
- Your vote requires a constructive explanation or at least the quote of someone's else with that requirement. If you do not abide by this rule the vote is invalid.
- Spam is not allowed.
- Try to stay civil. If required, mods will shut the RTU down.

Format:
- Two Heroes of a single color will be discussed each day. The rotation will be Red -> Blue - > Green -> Colorless -> Red.
- The order of Heroes will be according to their release date and origin.
- For now only units in the permanent pool will be considered. Seasonals, Legendaries and others will have their own round separately.
- Every round starts around at 8 pm and ends at 7.45 pm on the next day (times in CET).

Averages:

Red (63):

Spoiler

Zelgius: 9.18
Karla: 9.14
Celica (Brave): 9.0
Ayra: 8.68
Elincia: 8.54
Alm: 8.50
Reinhardt (WT): 8.50
Ares: 8.44
Olivia: 8.38
Tiki: 8.25
Siegbert: 8.22
Celica (FH): 8.20
Sigurd: 8.10
Lilina: 8.0
Chrom (KE): 7.94
Mia: 7.90
Leif: 7.88
Brave Roy: 7.88
Tiki (A): 7.88
Lucina: 7.79
Draug: 7.61
Eirika (AL): 7.44
Soleil: 7.44
Olivia: 7.42
Caeda: 7.36
Celica: 7.29
Lena: 7.25
Katarina: 7.14
Morgan: 7.06
Marth: 7.0
Sanaki: 7.0
Ike: 6.96
Ryoma: 6.92
Chrom: 6.75
Eldigan: 6.60
Lyn: 6.60
Hana: 6.57
Eirika: 6.55
Karel: 6.28
Roy: 6.25
Tharja: 6.20
Corrin: 6.16
Hinata: 6.14
Sophia: 5.67
Eliwood: 5.40
Seth: 5.40
Gray: 5.25
Fir: 5.20
Seliph: 5.11
Ogma: 5.07
Luke: 5.07
Laslow: 4.86
Athena: 4.80
Lon’qu: 4.75
Saber: 4.64
Leo: 4.64
Palla: 4.57
Stahl: 4.50
Selena: 4.29
Cain: 4.0
Alfonse: 3.79
Raigh: 3.44
Henry: 3.42

Blue (47):

Spoiler

Hector (Brave): 9.92
Hardin: 9.42
Reinhardt: 8.96
Effie: 8.72
Nowi: 8.30
Ishtar: 8.08
Micaiah: 8.08
Tana: 8.05
Ephraim: 8.0
Shigure: 7.94
Linde: 7.88
Brave Lucina: 7.83
Morgan: 7.81
Cordelia: 7.79
Ninian: 7.69
Lute: 7.61
Lukas: 7.60
Delthea: 7.59
Nephenee: 7.56
Hinoka: 7.56
Sumia: 7.50
Azura: 7.50
Clair: 7.20
Oscar: 7.18
Gwendolyn: 7.07
Shiro: 7.0
Peri: 6.88
Mae: 6.86
L'Arachel: 6.86
Est: 6.83
Tailtiu: 6.72
Corrin: 6.57
Olwen: 6.20
Abel: 5.94
Shanna: 5.94
Subaki: 5.80
Catria: 5.71
Donnel: 5.62
Roderick: 5.50
Oboro: 4.57
Sharena: 4.45
Mathilda: 4.40
Robin: 4.19
Sully: 3.57
Florina: 3.19
Jagen: 2.3
Odin: 1.89

Green (34):

Spoiler

Grima: 9.40
Nino (SF): 9.0
Hector: 8.78
Myrrh: 8.70
Raven: 8.22
Dorcas: 7.94
Amelia: 7.80
Brave Ike: 7.78
Cherche: 7.75
Nino: 7.60
Minerva: 7.56
Sheena: 7.50
Kana: 7.43
Libra: 7.33
Fae: 7.14
Olwen (WT): 7.08
Rhajat: 6.81
Deirdre: 6.69
Julia: 6.63
Soren: 6.63
Frederick: 6.63
Sonya: 6.29
Beruka: 6.0
Titania: 5.95
Cecilia: 5.83
Bartre: 5.71
Camilla: 5.69
Barst: 5.56
Anna: 5.35
Boey: 4.60
Hawkeye: 4.22
Gunter: 3.25
Merric: 3.21
Arthur: 2.75

Colorless (38):

Spoiler

Brave Lyn: 8.69
Hinoka (WF): 7.89
Elise: 7.67
Maribelle: 7.50
Innes: 6.89
Leon: 6.75
Sothe: 6.69
Lucius: 6.42
Genny: 6.40
Legault: 6.40
Kaze: 6.36
Takumi: 6.06
Jeorge: 5.64
Nanna: 5.57
Priscilla: 5.50
Kagero: 5.44
Felicia: 5.43
Klein: 5.33
Maria: 5.23
Clarine: 5.17
Faye: 5.08
Serra: 4.79
Saizo: 4.72
Azama: 4.40
Rebecca: 4.25
Gordin: 4.21
Matthew: 4.17
Sakura: 4.11
Setsuna: 4.10
Mist: 3.75
Lachesis: 3.71
Virion: 3.56
Jaffar: 3.50
Lissa: 3.36
Niles: 3.08
Wrys: 3.05
Gaius: 3.0
Jakob: 1.86

 

"Staff" & Credits to:
- XRay
- SatsumaFSoySoy
- LordFrigid

Edited by The Priest
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Alfonse, Prince of Askr

Spoiler

Max. Stats:
-/43/-
-/35/-
-/25/-
-/32/-
-/22/-

Base Skills:

Folkvangr (At start of turn, if unit's HP ≤ 50%, grants Atk+5 for 1 turn.)
( - )
Sol

Death Blow
( - )
Spur Atk

Marth, Altean Prince

Spoiler

Max. Stats:
37/41/44
28/31/34
31/34/37
25/29/32
20/23/26

Base Skills:

Falchion (Effective against dragon foes.At the start of every third turn, restores 10 HP)
Pivot
( - )

( - )
Escape Route
Spur Spd

Let us start!

Edited by The Priest
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You could claim it was a test to make sure people did actually read the rules. ;)

I'll have to abstain this round as I've quite literally never used Marth, owing to the fact I've never gotten a good one, or even an average one. He's sitting there at level 1+2 with 0 HM.

If you accept unpaired votes, I give my 4* Alfonse 2/10. He's good enough to get quest orbs that require him since he has enough Atk to kill stuff using a Brave Sword and/or some sort of breaker skill. But outside of enforced quest usage, I don't see why I should use him over easily mergeable 4* units like Laslow, Seliph or Chrom.

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Alfonse - His best set is the slaying sword QR bomber build. 48 HP with 36 Def is good, but fails to match up to Hinata's 52HP and 40 Def. Hinata can also match Alfonse's 35 base Atk with an appropriate nature. Still, Alfonse is at least the second best at pulling off the build among infantry, perhaps tying with Laslow. His Res stat is a waste of BST. For somebody this slow that Res is not high enough to avoid the ORKO from mages. Folkvangr does Alfonse no favors, but you can capitalize on that by giving him Defiant Def, Desperation, and Brash Assault seal. It's not a comparatively good build compared to other swordies, but it's at least somewhat unique to use. I rate Alfonse a 2 out of 10. Bottom of the barrel among sword users, but not truly unsalvageable or outclassed like Jagen or Jacob.

Marth - Falchion was a competitive personal weapon before its refinement. Dragons define the meta. He may be the worst dragon killer - failing to kill blue and red dragons in a single swing.  But proper kiting can allow Marth to heal up after a dragon encounter - provided they weren't packing swordbreaker. I'm a fan of his Drive Everything buff as well. If dragons don't show up in a match, Marth won't be dead weight as he supports his allies. You can stack it with further Drive skills and seals too. And Renewal 3 on his weapon makes him a competent healer to boot. He may not have mastery over any role, but he's versatile and you need that in Arena Offense. He's also been demoted to 3-4 star rarity like Chrom, allowing for easier merges. And I find him to be a better investment than Chrom. 7 out of 10. 

Edited by Glennstavos
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11 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

If you accept unpaired votes

Of course. You can very well vote for a single Hero, there is no obligation to vote for both entries.

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Alfonse, Prince of Askr

Max. Stats:
-/43/-
-/35/-
-/25/-
-/32/-
-/22/-

Base Skills:

Folkvangr (At start of turn, if unit's HP ≤ 50%, grants Atk+5 for 1 turn.)       400 SP
Pivot                                                                                                                          150 SP
Sol                                                                                                                              200 SP

Death Blow                                                                                                               200 SP
Axebreaker                                                                                                               200 SP
Spur Atk                                                                                                                    200 SP

Heavy Blade                                                                                                              240 SP

Skills in green means Skill Inheritance. Skills in orange means Sacred Seal. Alfonse is one of the firsts free units given in the game. Although his base kit may seem a bit underwhelming, just a few SI can turn him into a decent to great bonus unit. With his decent defense, axebreaker and self-healing via Sol, Alfonse does decently well as a B!Ike counter, and usually doesn't have problems dealing with green armors neither. 

Since he's competing for 2 different types of slot in an Arena team, I'll give him 2 different scores:

For 1 of the 3 main slots: 4/10. Although he isn't bad at all, there are just so many swordies that can do it better. Not being able to merge him is something that hurts too.

For the bonus unit slot: 7.5/10. He gives you extra coverage against B!Ike, Amelia, Hector and V!Hector. Unlike the other Askr trio units, he needs minimun SI to work. Only if you have a random infantry bonus unit which has merges would make a difference. 

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Alfonse: So, the prince of Askr. Can't do much with his setup, mostly because his bases are kind of bad and he's in a large pool in swords with plenty of betters. His sword is begging for a refine, he does a lot of damage when he has low HP but it requires taking enough damage to be risking BA builds. The default kit does contain the always useful DeB at least. Can't take blue or red mages well and some greens can also break him (e.g. Nino.). Me, I mainly use Swordbreaker on him (for countering other swords of course) and don't mess too much with his defaults. He's useable, but there's better by now. He's good at attacking greens and there are quite a few of these in arena, but he's not that good at it to stand out and Folkvanger's niche is poor overall. Going for a refined weapon or Brave sword can be options, but at that point you might as well use someone else. Oddly, I promoted the Askrtrio first as I wasn't sure who else I could use in my group of units back then and I thought they'd do more with them. I'm regretting it in hindsight, but not too much.

3 4/10, not awful, but he doesn't have much going for him. Maybe in Book 3.

Edit: Turns out there's another boost for Alfonse: with the stat boosts for bonus units from next week as of this post and any of the Askrtrio getting these boosts in any arena season, Alfonse has another (shared) advantage over many other units. About a third of the time, but he is a guaranteed bonus unit at least some times. I think that might be enough to push him to 4/10.

Marth: Sadly have to theorise here as I don't have him at 5* with the refine as of yet. So Marth has got an alright spread of stats, much as I wish he had better res for what he wants to do. As one of the falchion wielders, he's an option for dragonslaying and with the increase in green dragons this year he's got more that he can chew. While he can also do damage to red, blue and colourless dragons, they're all capable of wielding Swordbreaker and his attack isn't high enough to recommend him attacking them all the time. He's also got decent defence to allow him to tank greens to at least some extent, though I doubt he'll be all that useful against units like Hunktor. His refine is also good however, allowing him to give allies +2 to all stats on top of all the drive he can hold. While +5 to any 2 of these stats or +8 to one might not be amazing, he's still a good support option on a team and it's a stand out niche he carves for himself. Plus he can be a Reciprocal Aid bot, which is nice.

Tenative 6/10, not too exceptional himself but dragonslaying and the drive all is something that helps his relevance.

Edited by Dayni
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38 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Are rarity and availability of merges allowed in rating?

You have to clarifiy what you mean with that.
If you are giving a rating, assume that they are in their best possible state (skill inheritance, merges, 5* rarity) that you see fit.

I know that this is going to be a bit weird for the Askr Trio (as they have no merges) but alas we have to handle it like that for now. If you want to penalize them for that, go ahead.

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Alfonse: While he sports a nice base 35 Atk and base 32 Spd his awful Spd of 25 will ensure that almost everyone in the game will double him, while this opens a good niche with Steady Breath his terrible base 22 Res in a meta infested with dragons will be swiftly put our prince in the bench he's been memed to for so long. His best builds include a Bonfire/Ignis bombing set with Slaying Sword+/Steady Breath/Quick Riposte or a offensive Brave Sword build with his native Death Blow and Swordbreaker or Axebreaker. His Prf weapon, Folkvangr is in dire need of an upgrade because Defiant skills are simply bad, while it can work on a niche build with Desperation and the Brash Assault seal the threshold conditions to activate it are incredibly hard to reach because Alfonse is prone to die in one round if doubled. His main perk is being a consistent arena bonus unit which makes him valuable enough to promote to 5 stars to be safe in case one finds themselves without any other choice. 

Score: 4/10.

----

I'll abstain from rating Marth because while I have some theorical knowledge about him I've never used him so my score would hold little meaning here.

Edited by Alexmender
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The OP says Arena use is implied. But are we rating for Arena Offense, Arena Defense, and Arena Assault all at once? I ask because a lot of mediocre units can do well enough in Arena Assault by packing gem weapons and a breaker in order to counter one color of unit with extremely low investment. And these single-minded counter units thrive in Arena Assault compared to Arena Offense because you know what opponents you are facing and on what map. Meanwhile, I rated Marth high because he's never dead weight to an Arena Offense team even against the worst case scenario of four blue opponents packing swordbreaker. But in Arena Assault, he'll just be one of your handful of dragon killers. In Offense, Marth is probably an 8, but when comparing all three modes, that's hard to average out.

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34 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

The OP says Arena use is implied. But are we rating for Arena Offense, Arena Defense, and Arena Assault all at once? I ask because a lot of mediocre units can do well enough in Arena Assault by packing gem weapons and a breaker in order to counter one color of unit with extremely low investment. And these single-minded counter units thrive in Arena Assault compared to Arena Offense because you know what opponents you are facing and on what map. Meanwhile, I rated Marth high because he's never dead weight to an Arena Offense team even against the worst case scenario of four blue opponents packing swordbreaker. But in Arena Assault, he'll just be one of your handful of dragon killers. In Offense, Marth is probably an 8, but when comparing all three modes, that's hard to average out.

Consider regular Arena.
imo Arena Assault doesn't make for a good metric since, as you said, allows for every unit to be useful due to having insight on your opponent therefore being able to just bring in a counter.

When it comes to offense and defense I am giving you free reign what you value more on a Hero. If you don't think Arena Defense makes a good metric then just votte in the confines of Arena offense (which is most likely the metric people will go after).
As long as it has some solid reasoning behind it I don't mind in what frame of Arena you're basing your score off.

@Javi Blizz
You only have 1 vote for each Hero so I would ask you to give an average score between them or choose one over the other.

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Marth: 8/10

He's arguably the worst Dragonslayer in the game, Chrom have ridiculously high ATK so he can potentially pick up Green Mage OHKO set, Lucina and MM just have generally monstrous stats which goes even more crazy with the Falchion refine, Alm is a Brave Sword with 41 Base ATK. And now Roy have become pretty good with his Swordbreaker set, i guess. Marth's stats isn't low enough to make him outright bad though.

That said Omni Drive is a fantastic niche, since it ensures Marth can always contribute even without entering combat, and overall his supporting effect is great for Enemy phase builds to top up HP gauges. All of this packed into a neat package of dragonslaying, Grima being super common as it is. Marth's ability to mesh in any team allows you an easy access to Tactics skill if you want to

Decent choice for a Red to merge up overall if you decided to focus your egg to the other color basket.

 

@The Priest theres no need to do "rating position scaling" for this right? By this i mean if Lyn is 10/10 for being the best, then Reinhardt won't be able to be a 10/10 kind of thing

Edited by JSND Alter Dragon Boner
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Alfonse: Arguably the worst sword unit, but worth investing in because he's so frequently a bonus unit. That said, him being an arena bonus unit doesn't make him any better. He's simply too slow to do much of anything, and his bulk isn't very impressive either. At best, give him axebreaker and let him fight some axe units in Arena on a team that needs the coverage (but only for your bonus unit). Otherwise, wholly uninspiring to use. 2/10

Marth: Arguably the worst Falchion unit, but that hardly qualifies as being a bad unit since Falchion is so powerful. His refinement is great for support, and I find that building him for support with a relevant spur or drive in the C and S slots are what's best for him, along with either Reciprocal Aid or Ardent Sacrifice for his Assist. Because he's available at 3-4 stars, he can be merged very easily, helping to boost your score further. Outside arena, he's good for healing support in tempest trials and other content and his stats are all fairly good (though they were better when the game first released). That said, support units aren't exactly what you want in a sword lord when you could be using a powerhouse like Lucina or even Ayra if you don't need the Falchion. Overall, I say Marth as he is right now is at least a 6.5/10. Not especially amazing, but very worth using.

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32 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

theres no need to do "rating position scaling" for this right? By this i mean if Lyn is 10/10 for being the best, then Reinhardt won't be able to be a 10/10 kind of thing

Yeah, no need to do that.

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Here is how my criteria are scored:

Spoiler

Mobility:
Armor units are 0/10. Infantry units are 5/10. Cavalry units are 8/10. Flying units are 9/10. Units with unique mobility skills will bump up their score.
Range:
Melee units are 0/10. Distant Counter Weapon melee units are 5/10. Ranged units are 10/10.
Ease of Use:
This is based primarily on the mobility and range scoring.
Player Phase Performance:
This is based on the W:L:I ratio. Enemies will have a set up of +5, +Spd, Moonbow, and Fury, while the unit will be +0 but have access to buffs (usually +4 to two stats for infantry and armors, and +6 to two stats for cavalry and fliers). I would also list the build used to achieve that ratio. I think the following formula is pretty reasonable:
(W%) - (L%*0.5) = Performance
Enemy Phase Performance:
See Above.
Independence:
This just means how reliant the unit is on buffs. If I take off the buffs and the unit still performs pretty well, they will get a good score. Independence will be based on the higher of Player Phase or Enemy Phase performance. The formula is this:
(Performance Rating without buffs) / (Performance Rating) = Independence
Support:
Most units by default will be 0/10. Units with 30+ Res start from 1/10. Healers start from 2/10. Buffers start from 3/10. Fliers start from 4/10. Dancers/Singers start from 5/10. Other unique support skills may further boost their score.
Merges:
This is based on the number of extra copies available, so Askr Trio will be 0/10, summonable units will be 10/10, and most Tempest Trials units will be 1/10.
Other:
If the unit has some unique application or fun build, it will be noted here. For example, since Raven mages have a performance penalty, they will get some extra points here for being relevant and viable in certain team compositions.

Familiarity/Experience:
This just means how familiar I am with this particular unit or type of unit in Arena. If it is a low number, that means you should take the following rating number with a grain of salt since I do not have much experience with this particular unit or type of unit.
Rating:
The rating is how good I think a unit is. Here is how I weight each criterion:
Ease of Use 4/10
Performance: 3/10 (The higher of Player Phase or Enemy Phase will be used.)
Independence: 1/10
Support: 1/10
Merges: 1/10
Other: The unit may get a slight bump to their score if their uniqueness is relevant.

Disclosures:
I have a strong bias for non-armor Player Phase ranged units. My experience with melee and armor units in Arena is pretty minimal, so my rating for them is mostly based on theory. My Arena core consists of BH!Lyn, Reinhardt, and Olivia. I am usually in Tier 20, but I may drop to Tier 19 if I do not fish for points.

Other:

Spoiler

Template

— — — — — — — ◆Red◆ — — — — — — —
— — — — — — — ◾Blue◾ — — — — — — —
— — — — — — — ⬟Green⬟ — — — — — — —
— — — — — — — ●Colorless● — — — — — — —

Mobility: /10
Range: /10
Ease of Use: /10
Player Phase Performance: /10 — #:#:#
[Weapon, Special, A, B, Sacred Seal, #/#/#/#]
Enemy Phase Performance: /10 — #:#:#
[Weapon, Special, A, B, Sacred Seal, #/#/#/#]
Independence: /10 — #:#:#
[Weapon, Special, A, B, Sacred Seal]
Support: /10
Merges: /10
Other: /10

Familiarity/Experience: /10
Rating: /10

Summary:

 

— — — — — — — ◆Alfonse◆ — — — — — — —

Mobility: 5/10
Range: 0/10
Ease of Use: 2.5/10
Player Phase Performance: 6.5/10 — 185:44:16
[Brave Sword, Moonbow, Death Blow, Swordbreaker, Quickened Pulse, 4/0/4/0]
Enemy Phase Performance: 5/10 — 153:59:33
[Wo Dao [Def], Moonbow, Distant Counter, Quick Riposte, Close Def, 4/0/4/0]
Independence: 8.5/10 — 161:50:34
[Brave Sword, Moonbow, Death Blow, Swordbreaker, Quickened Pulse]
Support: 0/10
Merges: 10/10
Other: 5/10

Familiarity/Experience: 1/10
Rating: 5.5/10

Summary:

I am personally not a big fan of non-Distant Counter melee units, hence the low ease of use scoring. Having high mobility and being able to attack from a distance is key.

His performance is rather lackluster if he is not a bonus unit and he does not have a support niche either.

Due to an update in the Arena, while Alfonse still does not get any merges, he does get stats equivalent to a +10 unit if he is a bonus unit, so I decided to bump his merge score to 10.

His niche is basically being a frequent Arena bonus unit that is merged +10. While that is sort of important, if a player has played the game since the start of the game, that player would have gotten other non-Askr Trio bonus units and built them up by now, so I decided to factor in his other score into his rating.

— — — — — — — ◆Marth◆ — — — — — — —

Mobility: 5/10
Range: 0/10
Ease of Use: 2.5/10
Player Phase Performance: 6.5/10 — 172:14:59
[Falchion [special], Moonbow, Life and Death, Swordbreaker, Speed +3, 4/4/0/0]
Enemy Phase Performance: 5.5/10 — 145:19:81
[Falchion [special], Moonbow, Distant Counter, Quick Riposte, Speed +3]
Independence: 5.5/10 — 99:15:131
[Falchion [special], Moonbow, Life and Death, Swordbreaker, Speed +3]
Support: 6/10
Merges: 10/10
Other: 10/10

Familiarity/Experience: 0/10
Rating: 5.5/10

Summary:

While his performance may seem lackluster, that is because he is running a support build rather than a combat build.

Marth's niche is being an amazing support unit. His Drive buff is very powerful as it gives +2 to Atk/Spd/Def/Res during combat and that buff cannot be cancelled with Panic. With the Drive buff at a range of 2, it also makes positioning to take advantage of those buffs a lot easier.

His other niche is that he also functions as a dragon slayer. I see a lot of dragons, and Falchion being effective against them is very useful.

Due to how good he is at support and that his performance is handicapped by his support build, I bumped Marth's final rating up a little.

 

Edited by XRay
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Scoring method, for consistency's sake:

Spoiler

Units are evaluated based on both their combat performance and their team support capabilities (i.e. their whole contribution to a team).

  • Combat performance is judged by matchups, especially against enemies that are at triangle disadvantage or neutral to the unit. Performance against more relevant meta threats is more valuable than performance against units that are rarely seen. Scale of 0 to 10.
    • Sustainability and filling a useful niche are given small bonuses, when applicable.
    • I will look at least one PP-focused and one EP-focused skill set for each unit, but only evaluate based on performance for whichever phase I deem the unit to be stronger on.
  • Support capabilities are decided by how much support a unit can provide (without horribly compromising their combat capabilities), and how valuable I feel that support is. Scale of 0 to 3.

At the end, the combat and support scores will be weighted (with a heavy focus on combat performance), combined, and rounded to the nearest .5 to obtain the total rating. Dancers and Singers will get +1 point to their total rating (not to exceed 10), because I value Dance/Sing utility highly.

This method of evaluation essentially compares each unit to a hypothetical "god unit" who is stellar at everything, instead of each unit to each other.

Alfonse

  • Physical stat line with biases toward Atk and Def, low Spd and Res. After the May 2018 version update, he will gain +10/4/4/4/4 stat boosts when he is a bonus unit, which is the main use case for him and thus worth factoring into his rating.
    • Bonus unit stat boosts make him powerful in lower score ranges, and keep him competent in higher score ranges.
    • Fólkvangr (built-in Defiant Atk 2) is not particularly useful beyond being a 16 Mt weapon.
    • Capable of running a Brave Sword+ set for a player phase presence, though this has trouble with bulky green Armors.
    • He can also get good mileage out of a special-based enemy phase set, running Slaying Edge/Steady Breath/Bonfire for a dedicated melee check or Distant Counter for ranged counterattacking (note that as long as the player is not sticking him in front of well-buffed -blade mages, he can actually weather a couple rounds against green mages with his high HP pool, OHKOing on the counterattack).
  • Combat-built Alfonse needs most or all of his skill slots for performance, leaving little room for supporting options beyond his C slot.

Overall, I give him a 7.5 for combat (solid green matchups and passable red matchups, esp. with an EP focused set) and .5 for support, for a total rating of 7/10.

Marth

  • Balanced but mediocre stat line.
    • Bulky or fast non-dragon green units will give him trouble, and he has virtually nonexistent matchups against prominent sword threats (without Swordbreaker).
    • Falchion's Dragon effectiveness gives him a useful combat niche; he can OHKO or ORKO all green dragons relatively easily, and even KO some variants of Robin (Fell Vessel), Tiki (Dragon Scion), and Tiki (Naga's Voice).
  • Falchion, with the Effect refinement, gives him two powerful supporting options.
    • Combat buff support for allies within two spaces, can be further augmented with Drives for up to +14 in total stats from 2-range combat buffs.
    • Built-in Renewal 3 gives him automatic sustain and the ability to run a medic set, which is especially useful since Marth will likely need to outsource some combat endeavors to his teammates.

Overall, I give him a 7 for combat (decent green and poor red matchups, good sustain, useful niche) and a 3 for support (stat boosts and healing), for a total rating of 7.5/10.

Edited by LordFrigid
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For Alfonse, I would give the "protagonist" of FEH a 4.5. 

While he does the job well as a sword unit, especially with skill inheritance.

Unfortunately for him, he is constantly powercreeped by units and it is quite expensive to properly build him. There's no real reason to pick him over other sword units who can do the job better. Unless you like him, of course. 

 

Also for Marth, I would give 7.5. 

Marth, while not having "out of this water" stats, he's now a amazing buffer thanks to his refine. And yes, while he is the weakest out of the falchion crew, he does his job and does it fine. 

Edited by Dust222
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Let’s see:

Alphonse: Would be a good sword unit, if wasn’t for the fact that other sword units do what he does but better. Offensive sword? Ayra, Mia, B!Roy, Caeda, Elincia, and other fast sword units are better offensively. Defensive sword unit? Eldigan, Both sword Ike’s, and all the sword armies do what he does, but better. Of course, with the right skills, he can become pretty good. Maybe if he gets a refine, then maybe he might be better. Rating: 4/10

Marth: The worst when it comes to taking on dragons, yet has a niche that makes him good. Albeit, Sanaki, W!Hinoka, and the two NY fliers give bigger buffs, but he gives a buff to every stat 6.5/10

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A lot has been explained about these two already, but here's my take on it...

Alfonse: 3.5/10 While Alfonse is free, he is arguably a terrible unit to invest into, and without investment he's just very lackluster. Lets start off with looking at his base kit. Alfonse comes with Death Blow 3, Spur Atk 3, Sol and his legendary weapon, Folkvangr. The relevant things to look at here is his free Death Blow 3 and his 16 Mt legendary weapon. Death Blow 3 is great if you want to run a simple Brave Sword+ set on him, which is not a bad way to build Alfonse, but other than that it's not very useful for other builds. Folkvangr is a horrible lackluster legendary weapon that gives him a weaker Defiant 2, and is not as good as KE!Chrom's Falchion, which gaves +5 to every stat as a Brazen. Spur Atk 3 can be useful sometimes, but the C Skill is not that important or particularly rare. His base Kit for the most part is awful. 5/10

Alfonse's stats are 43/35/25/32/22. This equates to decent HP, high Atk, useless Spd, decent Def, and low Res. It's clear that his stats set him up to be a physically beefy and hard hitting sort of tank, but there are units out there that can do it so much better due to better Def and/or Atk stats. Plain and simple, Alfonse is nothing special at all stat-wise. 5/10

Can't even fodder Alfonse too. 0/10

Marth: 7.35/10 Marth's base kit. He has the refinable Falchion, useless Pivot, random Escape Route 3 and Spur Spd 3. Lets focus on the big thing here which his refinable Falchion. The fact that Marth has a 16 Mt weapon that can give him +3/5 HP, stat boosts, or a refinable Super Drive Effect already places him well beyond many of the other units in this category of base kit. Escape Route 3 while being for the most part practically useless and unavailable at 4 Stars, can work if used with the Refined Eff. Falchion. Spur 3 can also be pretty decent too. 8/10

Stat-wise Marth is very well balanced with 41/31/34/29/23. 41 HP is the minimum value needed to be considered decent HP (you survive 20x2 damage), 31 Atk while not that high is still good with the 16 Mt Falchion, 34 Spd is decent and be brought up with a boon, 29 Def is usable, and 23 Res is low, but is a safe option to lower. If you build Marth's Spd up, and slap a Fury 3 on him then your basically done, and you've built a very balanced speedy unit, and with the refine you can choose to make an even faster or tankier Marth, or you can make him a Drive Happiness Goodboy as well. 7/10

In terms of fodder Marth has nothing really other than Pivot and Spur Spd 3. Spur Spd 3 is not really as spectacular as Drive Spd because you can Drive your allies at a safe range in the arena to avoid them getting attacked, but it could be useful for PvE maps. Pivot is a common skill for Armored Units so it's actually not bad because Marth is common and available. 6/10

Spoiler

My Format Idea:

Unit X:

1. Unit X's Skills = 45%

2. Unit X's Stats/Performance (With Skill Inheritance) = 45%

3. Unit X's Skill Inheritance Usefulness (Thinking about not using this one.) = 10%

 

Edited by Ae†her
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Alfonse: Alfonse is unfortunately one of the lesser sword units in the game, to the point where I'd even pick Tobin over him. He just doesn't really do anything well, and he's immediately outclassed by the sheer number of sword units alone. There's nothing remarkable about him or anything to really make him stand out, which is a shame.
3/10

Marth: I've been using Marth since the beginning of the game. I've always found good use for him as both a combat unit and a support unit, he's a character that seems to be able to mesh with whatever team I'm using no matter what. Add that to the fact that he's a Falchion user! He's not the bulkiest of units and probably not even the best Falchion user, but he's still a good unit overall with the simple attribute of having good synergy.
7.5/10

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