Rate the Unit, Day 92: Brave Ephraim & Brave Veronica

[Poimagic]

Hinoka: Before Weapon Refinery, Hinoka was outclassed by other Lance fliers, and her only redeeming quality was that she was the only source of Hone Fliers, but the role has been filled up. But with her new weapon, Hinoka has gotten better, making use of her decent atk and spd stat with her new spear, which gives her a niche that none of the other fliers has. The only thing that brings her down is that her stats are mediocre 

Rating: 7/10

[Alexmender]

People really have a bias for Stahl

Hinoka. During a good portion of the game one could easily sum Hinoka as "Worse Cordelia with Hone Fliers" and they would be right. Hinoka has a passable offensive spread of 35/32 although her Spd is in the low-ish side. It doesn't help that Est has the same base Atk while also having enough Res to use Ploys, making her a better Brave Lance+ user. Thankfully weapon refinery gave her a new leash in life with Hinoka's spear, this weapon alone fixes a lot of Hinoka's problems. This weapon grants her an improved version of Swift Sparrow as long as she has a flying or infantry ally within two spaces. That alone fixes her mediocre Spd from 32 to 36 making her relatively fast and it's refinement grants Flier Guidance to give maximum synergy for Flier Emblem teams. Hinoka shines the best in Flier teams and can work wonderfully in Flier/Infantry mixed teams. Sadly she's heavily reliant on her team to work at her best which hurts her solo performance, while it is easy to take care of this it is an issue notheless. 

Rating: 7/10

Oboro. Here comes another underrated unit. Oboro has a pretty decent stat spread which focuses on tanking. Despite not being as min-maxed as Lukas she makes up for it with her not that shabby Res stat which can be further increased with a refined Berkut's Lance making her a pretty solid mixed tank. She faces strong competition from Shiro who loses 2 points of Res for 1 HP/3 Atk/4 Spd making him more reliable as he's less prone to being doubled. Despite this Oboro is a pretty solid unit and will put a lot of work if one invests into her. 

Rating: 6.5/10

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Hinoka - Living under the shadow of Cordelia and Est wasn't the worst situation a unit has ever found themselves in. I feel like I would have rated her a 5, one full point lower than Est and two lower than Cordelia. But nonetheless Hinoka got the boost. Her lance allows for better arena scoring and basically puts Flier Formation on all of her allies so that they can equip a better B passive. In addition to a personal offense boost and extending that same movement perk to infantry allies. Hinoka's weapon makes her extremely versatile. She can go in, a dancer can warp to her, and as Hinoka retreats, she repositions the dancer back to the original position. No HP threshold required. These supportive movement possibilities give Hinoka an extremely relevant niche among other competitive blue fliers and blue picks in general. 7.5 out of 10.

Oboro - Similar physical bulk to Donnel and Ephraim. But none of them compare to Lukas who is just the most min-maxed in physical bulk and attacking power. There still aren't a lot of infantry lance units, but all the additions are quite good compared to launch units such as Oboro. She is top of her class in no regard. Just not a competitive character. 2.5 out of 10.

Past ratings

Spoiler

1. Alfonse - 3
2. Marth - 7
3. Sharena - 3
4. Jagen - 1
5. Anna - 4.5
6. Barst - 3
7. Cain - 4
8. Draug - 7.5
9. Gordin - 5
10. Jeorge - 5.5
11. Abel - 5.5
12. Linde - 9
13. Minerva - Abstain
14. Merric - 3.5
15. Maria - 6
16. Wrys - 3.5
17. Ceada - Abstain
18. Ogma - 4
19. Catria - 4
20. Est - 6
21. Sheena - 6.5
22. Cecilia - 4
23. Clarine - 6.5
24. Matthew - 4
25. Palla - 2.5
26. Roy -7
27. Gwendolyn - 7.5
28. Shanna - 4.5
29. Bartre - 7
30. Fae - 7.5
31. Serra - 4
32. Lissa - 2
33. Tiki - 8
34. Lilina - 7
35. Florina - 1.5
36. M!Robin - 3.5
37. Hector - 8
38. Raven - 8.5
39. Gaius - 4 out of 10
40. Virion - 3.5
41. Raigh - 1.5
42. Sophia - 3.5
43. Sully -2.5
44. Cordelia -7
45. Hawkeye - 5.5
46. Nino - 8
47. Felicia - 6.5
48. Jakob - 1
49. Fir - 4
50. Eliwood - 5.5
51. Donnel - 3.5
52. Nowi - 8.5
53. Frederick - 6.5
54. Cherche - 7.5
55. Saizo - 4
56. Kagero - 4.5
57. Lyn - 7
58. Chrom - 5
59. F!Corrin - 7
60. Azura - 6.5
61. Gunter - 3
62. Camilla - 5.5
63. Azama - 6.5
64. Setsuna - 3.5
65. Stahl - 2.5
66. Lonqu - 3
67. Hinoka - 7.5
68. Oboro - 2.5

Ratings I would change in retrospect: Gordin would be a 2.5, Cain would be a 3. Linde would be 7. Nowi would be an 8. And I'd drop Matthew and Saizo to 3.5.

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by Glennstavos

[eclipse]

The reason why Cain's rated so low is because I missed his day.

(on a more serious note, he would've gotten at least a 5 for that stat line alone)

Ahem. . .

Hinoka - One of the three release heroes that continues to elude me, which means I give her a negative score. which means I'll have to go off of numbers.  She's a slower Cordelia that came with a monster of a C skill. . .until she got her own weapon.  With innate Guidance 3, fliers can warp to her at the end of the turn, and benefit from Hone Fliers.  Infantry can just insta-warp instead.  She went from being an inferior support clone to a utility unit that can hit back.  If she gets a boon in either offense stat and a bane in a non-offense one, she's a force to be reckoned with.  8.5/10

Oboro - She's like proto-Lukas.  Unlike Lukas, she's a bit faster (so +Spd isn't a total waste), and can take certain magical hits.  Her lance doesn't do her many favors, since the only thing she'll most likely tank successfully is Zelgius (and maybe Zephiel).  She's still a formidable physical wall, and her innate Seal Defense is a sensible budget option.  She can either turn into a super-wall with a Sapphire Lance (which means she can add red tomes to the list of things she tanks) or can grab a Slaying Lance+ for faster Bonfires.  Can be useful, but only if there's no better options around.  4/10

[LordFrigid]

Hinoka

• Offense-focused stat line, featuring good Atk, decent Spd, and mediocre Def and Res.
  • Hinoka's Spear (Atk/Spd+4 when within 2 spaces of an infantry or flying ally) is a powerful offensive tool, and the effect refinement (built-in Infantry and Flier Guidance 3) opens up strong movement support options without sacrificing her C or Seal slots.
  • Very strong red and strong blue matchups on offense when Hone Fliers and the Hinoka's Spear combat buff are active, fueled by what is effectively a 39/36 offensive neutral stat line. She does miss a some doubles against fast Sword foes, and has some trouble with the bulkiest blues without a special activation. She can use Desperation for sustainability.
  • Mediocre defense matchups due to her lower defensive stats.
• As a flier, she can run a flier field or combat buff in her C passive slot. Hinoka's Spear provides built-in movement support.

Overall, I give her 8.5 for combat (very strong red, strong blue matchups; sustainability bonus), and 1.5 for support (flier field/combat buff, movement support built into her weapon), for a total rating of 8/10.

Oboro

• Physically bulky stat line, featuring good Def, decent Atk, mediocre Res, and low Spd.
  • Strong red, ok blue coverage on offense with an Atk-stacking Brave Lance set. She struggles with even passably bulky blues.
  • Strong red, decent blue coverage on defense using a Slaying Lance/DC/Guard/QR Seal set. She can opt to use Berkut's Lance instead, to better take magical hits at the expense of a bit of KO power provided by a one-round special activation. She can also use Steady Breath to focus on one-range tanking.
• She can provide basic field/combat buff support to her teammates through her C Passive slot.

Overall, I give her 7 (strong red, decent blue matchups on defense), and .5 for support (basic field/combat buff), for a total rating of 6.5/10.

~

Scoring method:

Spoiler

Units are evaluated based on both their combat performance and their team support capabilities (i.e. their whole contribution to a team).

• Combat performance is judged by matchups, especially against enemies that are at triangle disadvantage or neutral to the unit. Performance against more relevant meta threats is more valuable than performance against units that are rarely seen. Triangle Adept sets are not considered, though they might be noted. Scale of 0 to 10.
  • Sustainability and filling a useful niche are given small bonuses, when applicable.
  • I will look at least one PP-focused and one EP-focused skill set for each unit, but only evaluate based on performance for whichever phase I deem the unit to be stronger on.
• Support capabilities are decided by how much support a unit can provide (without horribly compromising their combat capabilities), and how valuable I feel that support is. Scale of 0 to 3.
• At the end, the combat and support scores will be weighted (with a heavy focus on combat performance), combined, and rounded to the nearest .5 to obtain the total rating. Dancers and Singers will get +1 point to their total rating (not to exceed 10), because I value Dance/Sing utility highly.

This method of evaluation essentially compares each unit to a hypothetical "god unit" who is stellar at everything, instead of each unit to each other.

All my ratings.

Edited June 4, 2018 by LordFrigid
Hinoka's Spear doesn't affect Armors.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Hinoka: She has great attack and decent speed, and she comes with a good C skill. Her personal weapon is an improvement over her Brave lance, in my opinion, and allows her even more support options in addition to that C skill. But like all fliers, she's vulnerable to arrows, and her resistance seems a bit low for a pegasus knight. Still, though, that attack is great and combines well with her weapon. 8/10

Oboro: She's a good physical tank with solid HP and defense, but she's pretty slow and her resistance is bad. Add to that that she's simply outclassed by units like Ephraim and Shiro, and she kinda falls down the ladder a bit. Her weapon isn't particularly great, and she doesn't really come with skills that would help her out. 4/10

[Xenomata]

Hinoka.

Spoiler

Unlike Camilla earlier, Hinoka suffers from having lowered speed from what she had in her original game, but a lot more Attack. Her new personal weapon, in terms of its forge option, doesn't do her any particular favors, but its general effect helps to boost Hinoka's alright speed and keep her attack high. Her defense is average.

While I cannot attest to this myself, I feel Hinoka's biggest issue is that she requires support from nearby allies in order to benefit most from her lance, despite being a more offense-oriented melee unit, meaning she will inevitably be out of range of allies unless they moved before her, or she is luring them in on enemy phase, which isn't exactly the best considering her defensive ability.

Hinoka also suffers from powerful competition in Cordelia and Est, two Pegasus Knights with similarly high Atk but are able to run Brave Lance sets better than Hinoka, with Cordelia also being able to terrorize the land with any lance you give her, and Est also being able to run a Slaying Spear for Armor killing. Hinoka's non-Atk stats are far too balanced compared to Cordelia's high speed and Est's low speed but good Resistance letting her trigger Ploys.

One thing Hinoka has that others have to take from her is Hone Fliers, the rare Flier skill that so far has only been put on seasonal fliers. As such, even a bad natured Hinoka can still provide support.

Rating: 6.5/10 While Hinoka is by no means bad, especially now that she has a personal weapon to take advantage of, she is not as specialized as other Lance Fliers, and lacks the ability to match other Lance Fliers when in direct competition with them. She does have good support options however, between Infantry/Flier Guidance on her forged personal weapon and the rare Hone Fliers skill.

 

Oboro

Spoiler

Oboro serves as the original bulky but slow Lance Infantry. While she isn't as slow as Lukas, she is still expected to be doubled by the majority of the cast.

Oboro has largely been replaced by both Lukas and Shiro, as they have much better Attack and Defense compared to Oboro's 32 and 35 respectively at base, along with Shiro's built in Sturdy Stance. While Speed on the three of them doesn't matter quite as much, Shiro still outpaces her. Oboro does have higher Resistance, but it is not high enough to consider trying to tank magical hits either way.

While she can still be decent to good, another player might consider only using her for her built-in Heavy Spear/Slaying Spear, which isn't the worst thing you could do with her, given that she has the defensive ability to take hits from some Armors.

While Oboro can be a Jack of all Trades, other lancers can usually do what she wants to do better. So while she can be used, you shouldn't expect her to be the absolute best at it.

Rating: 4.5/10 While Oboro CAN be good, she has to compete with every other lancer in the game when compared to them. She can still run with her default weapon to take on Armors, however.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Xenomata

[Korath88]

Skipped the past few days due to lack of experience with the reviewed units

Hinoka

35/32 is a decent spread and with the extra +4/+4 from her weapon, she performs well, despite the tough competition in the lance flier category. However she is dependent on having support due to the weapon effect requirement, making her less flexible than the power trio of Cordelia/Tana/Shigure. Furthermore, her only set that isn't outclassed is her unique weapon set, and thus doesn't run firesweep , slaying or brave as well as the aforementioned three, further restricting her versatility. Refinement can give her additional utility, which is unique to her, or a speed refine, which no one seems to bring up. Overall, she's just one step behind the best fliers and still a perfectly viable unit.

8/10, her main problem is that Cordelia and Shigure are pullable at lower rarity, making it kinda pointless to build her. Thankfully for her, ease of obtaining doesn't factor into my rating criteria unless it's a seasonal.

Oboro

Infantry lancer with a really balanced spread. As with most balanced units, she's outclassed in nearly every aspect and has no solid niche. Lack of a prf only makes this worse. Offensively outclassed by Ephraim, B!Lucina and Nephenee, defensively outclassed by Lukas and Shiro.

Maybe if she had a bit more Res she could have had a niche. 4/10

Edited June 4, 2018 by Korath88

[XRay]

On 6/2/2018 at 11:15 AM, The Priest said:

This is the last round before Green leaves the launch units territory.
In all honesty looking at coming rounds, we're going to many rounds with only Red units towards the end. That seems a bit jaring if we have to rate e.g. Kana the last green unit while we just reach Eirika and Seliph with Red. So I am giving you the option to choose between:
- keeping the current pace and order
- Do the launch units first and then proceed banner-wise (e.g. Sibling Bonds would be divided in Eirika & Seliph, then Ephraim & Julia).

I'm open for both. The only thing that changes is that we're going to have the Red apocalypse first but have more coherent round in terms of release.

Just an idea, maybe we can cycle through green again and see how previous unit's score change over the course of a month?

If a month is not enough to make a difference, maybe we can include seasonal/Special Heroes to lengthen the green cycle? Unlike GHB, TT, and other limited Heroes, Special Heroes can be merged to +10 easily (for whales) despite being released on an annual basis, and they also have access to natures.

— — — — — — —

Back from the beach!

I think I will just focus on one unit a day for now to make it easier on myself testing out different weighting systems and formulas.

I abstain my vote on Hinoka.

Here is how my criteria are rated:

Spoiler

Mobility:
Armor units are 0/10. Infantry units are 5/10. Cavalry units are 8/10. Flying units are 9/10. Units with unique mobility skills will bump up their score.
Range:
Melee units are 0/10. Distant Counter Weapon melee units are 5/10. Ranged units are 10/10.
Player Phase Raw Performance:
This is based on the W:L:I ratio. Enemies will have a set up of +5, +Spd, Moonbow, and Fury. The unit will be +0, may not use Breakers, and will not have Chills or Ploys activate. Units may have access to buffs (usually, +4 to any two stats for infantry and armors, and 6/6/0/0 or 0/0/6/6 for cavalry and fliers). I would also list the build used to achieve that ratio. I think the following formula is pretty reasonable:
(W%) - (L%*0.25) = Raw Performance
Player Phase Weighted Performance:
Since most units can get a raw performance score of at least 5, setting 5 as 0 for the weighted performance makes more sense in judging how good a unit is.
(Raw Performance - 5) * 2 = Weighted Performance
Player Phase Independence:
This just means how reliant the unit is on buffs. If I take off the buffs and the unit still performs pretty well, they will get a good score. The formula is that same as the raw performance:
(W%) - (L%*0.25) = Independence
Enemy Phase Raw Performance:
See Above.
Enemy Phase Weighted Performance:
See Above.
Enemy Phase Independence:
See Above.
Ease of Use:
This is an average of the mobility and range scores.
Performance:
This consolidates the weighted performance and independence scores into one score, and uses the higher of Player Phase or Enemy Phase. This also means that the build used in weighted performance may not necessarily be their best build, since there may be an alternative build with a slightly worse performance but have much higher independence.
(Weighted Performance * 0.8) + (Raw Performance * 0.1) + (Independence * 0.1) = Performance
Support:
Most units by default will be 0/10. Units with 30+ Res start from 1/10. Dagger units start from 1/10. Healers start from 2/10. Buffers start from 3/10. Fliers start from 4/10. Dancers/Singers start from 5/10. Other unique support skills may further boost their score.
Other:
If the unit has some unique application or fun build, it will be noted here. For example, since Raven mages have a performance penalty, they will get some extra points here for being relevant and viable in certain team compositions.

Familiarity/Experience:
This just means how familiar I am with this particular unit or type of unit in Arena. If it is a low number, that means you should take the following rating number with a grain of salt since I do not have much experience with this particular unit and/or type of unit.
Rating:
The rating is how good I think a unit is. Here is how I weigh each criterion:
Ease of Use 4/10
Performance: 5/10
Support: 1/10
Other: If the unit got some unique application or fun build, they will get a boost to their rating.

Ease of Use 3/10
Performance: 6/10
Support: 1/10
Other: If the unit got some unique application or fun build, they will get a boost to their rating.

Ease of Use 2/10
Performance: 7/10
Support: 1/10
Other: If the unit got some unique application or fun build, they will get a boost to their rating.

Notes:
1. A unit's build in raw performance will not take into account a unit's support build, Raven build, or any other builds. Likewise, a unit's ease of use, support, and other criteria will not take into account the unit's raw performance build.
2. Since healers' Firesweep build [+Atk, Pain [Dazzling Staff], Attack +3, Wrathful Staff, Attack +3] requires the user to do two rounds of combat to measure how good it is, that overwhelmingly skews the combat results for healers, so I decided to tone down their performance by using Brazen Atk/Spd-Desperation and taking away 10 HP or 25% of max HP, which ever is greater.
3. The build used in raw/weighted performance might not be the build with the best score. If there is an alternative build with a slightly less performance but much higher independence, that build will be used instead.
4. Axe and dagger versions of Wo Dao are not available in the regular summoning pool yet, but I think they will be added in the future, so I am using Giant Spoon and Lethal Carrot.

Experimental Stuff:

Niche Performance: Red, blue, and green units will have blue, green, and red match ups discounted . Colorless units will have usually have melee match ups discounted.

Revised Ease of Use:

Movement

1 Movement = 0
2 Movement = 2
3 Movement = 4
Go on Trenches = +0.5
Unimpeded by Trenches = +0.5
Go on Forests = +0.5
Unimpeded by Forests =+0.5
Go on Obstacles = +0.5
Unimpeded by Forests = +0.5
Exclusive Movement Effects = +1

Armor = 2 = 0.5+0.5+0.5+0.5
Infantry = 3.5 = 2+0.5+0.5+0.5 = 3.5
Cavalry = 4.5 = 4+0.5 = 4.5
Flier = 5 = 2+0.5+0.5+0.5+0.5+0.5+0.5

Weapon Range:

Melee = 0
Distant Counter = 2
Ranged = 4

Disclosures:
I have a strong bias for non-armor Player Phase ranged units. My experience with melee and armor units in Arena is pretty minimal, so my rating for them is mostly based on theory. My Arena core consists of BH!Lyn, Reinhardt, and Olivia. I am usually in Tier 20, but I may drop to Tier 19 if I do not fish for points.

Other:

Spoiler

Template

— — — — — — — ◆Red◆ — — — — — — —
— — — — — — — ◾Blue◾ — — — — — — —
— — — — — — — ⬟Green⬟ — — — — — — —
— — — — — — — ●Colorless● — — — — — — —

Mobility: /10
Range: /10
Player Phase Raw Performance: /10 — #:#:#
Player Phase Weighted Performance: /10
Player Phase Independence: /10 — #:#:#
[+Boon, -Bane, Weapon, Special, A, B, Sacred Seal, #/#/#/#]
Enemy Phase Raw Performance: /10 — #:#:#
Enemy Phase Weighted Performance: /10
Enemy Phase Independence: /10 — #:#:#
[+Boon, -Bane, Weapon, Special, A, B, Sacred Seal, #/#/#/#]

Ease of Use: /10
Performance: /10
Support: /10
Other: /10

Familiarity/Experience: /10
Rating: /10

Summary:

_______ got bad/okay/good/stellar combat performance.

She/He can the support the team with Ploys.

She/He can support the team with daggers/Light Breath and Dark Breath.

She/He is a great mobility support unit as a flier.

She/He can also run Firesweep-Hit and Run as a flier unit.

She/He can run a Firesweep-Poison Strike-Poison Strike.

She/He can run Wrathful Staff-Dazzling Staff to emulate Firesweep archers.

She/He can run a Raven set.

— — — — — — — ◆Red◆ — — — — — — —
— — — — — — — ◾Blue◾ — — — — — — —
— — — — — — — ⬟Green⬟ — — — — — — —
— — — — — — — ●Colorless● — — — — — — —

Mobility: /10
Range: /10
Player Phase Raw Performance: /10 — #:#:#
Player Phase Weighted Performance: /10
Player Phase Independence: /10 — #:#:#
[+Boon, -Bane, Weapon, Special, A, B, Sacred Seal, #/#/#/#]
Enemy Phase Raw Performance: /10 — #:#:#
Enemy Phase Weighted Performance: /10
Enemy Phase Independence: /10 — #:#:#
[+Boon, -Bane, Weapon, Special, A, B, Sacred Seal, #/#/#/#]

Ease of Use: /10
Performance: /10
Support: /10
Other: /10

Familiarity/Experience: /10
Rating: /10

Summary:

_______ got bad/okay/good/stellar combat performance.

She/He can the support the team with Ploys.

She/He can support the team with daggers/Light Breath and Dark Breath.

She/He is a great mobility support unit as a flier.

She/He can also run Firesweep-Hit and Run as a flier unit.

She/He can run a Firesweep-Poison Strike-Poison Strike.

She/He can run Wrathful Staff-Dazzling Staff to emulate Firesweep archers.

She/He can run a Raven set.

 

— — — — — — — ◾Hinoka◾ — — — — — — —

Mobility: 9/10
Range: 0/10
Player Phase Raw Performance: 8.58/10 — 221:12:21
Player Phase Weighted Performance: 7.17/10
Player Phase Independence: 7.56/10 — 195:12:47
[+Spd, -Res, Hinoka's Spear [Spd][1 Ally], Moonbow, Swift Sparrow, Desperation, Speed +3, 6/6/0/0]
Enemy Phase Raw Performance: 8.02/10 — 207:13:34
Enemy Phase Weighted Performance: 6.04/10
Enemy Phase Independence: 7.25/10 — 189:19:46
[+Spd, -Res, Hinoka's Spear [Spd][1 Ally], Moonbow, Distant Counter, Quick Riposte, Iote's Shield, 6/6/0/0]

Ease of Use: 4.5/10
Performance: 7.35/10
Support: 4/10
Other: 10/10

Familiarity/Experience: /10
Rating: 7 - 7 - 7.5 /10

Summary:

Hinoka got good combat performance. She/He is a great mobility support unit as a flier. She/He can also run Firesweep-Hit and Run as a flier unit.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by XRay

[Simpsons138]

My review: 

• Hinoka: With the highest attack among flying lancers along with Cordelia, she can do a lot of damage, can be for mixed teams involving flying and infantry allies, has Hone Fliers, a rare skill that will boost her flying allies offensive stats by 6, Brave Lance+ is powerful already with the ability to double any unit if initiates combat and also, having an AOE skill in Blazing Wind is a good skill to an extend, but her real deal is with her own Spear, giving her +4 Atk/Spd if near any Infantry or Flying ally and when refined, it gives her Guidance and Flying Guidance, allowing any other ally to take her enemy down if she didn't reach them or didn't finish them off, overall, very powerful unit, just be careful with bows and Excalibur unless she has Iote's Shield and even then, she does have fragile defenses, so don't have her take hits, even if she triggers Defiant Res, it's not enough to do it, but she's strong and if you have a Hinoka, train her and let her destroy her enemies, 7/10

[LordFrigid]

Day 35

I’ll do averages later if @The Priest doesn’t do it first.

Beruka (Quiet Assassin)

Spoiler

Max. Stats:
43/46/49
25/29/32
20/23/26
34/37/40
19/22/25

Base Skills:

Killer Axe+
( - )
Glimmer

Defiant Def 3
Lunge
( - )

Arthur (Hapless Hero)

Spoiler

Max. Stats:
40/43/46
29/32/35
25/29/32
26/30/33
21/24/28

Base Skills:

Emerald Axe+
Swap
( - )

HP +5
Lancebreaker 3
( - )

 

[Shiki]

13 hours ago, XRay said:

Just an idea, maybe we can cycle through green again and see how previous unit's score change over the course of a month?

If a month is not enough to make a difference, maybe we can include seasonal/Special Heroes to lengthen the green cycle? Unlike GHB, TT, and other limited Heroes, Special Heroes can be merged to +10 easily (for whales) despite being released on an annual basis, and they also have access to natures.

If we do that we would have to re-do the other Colors as well. I don't see a reason to give Green alone that special privilege.

We could do that with the seasonals since IS just dumps new Green into the Seasonal pool instead of patching up the regular pool. We have very few Red seasonals.

---

Hinoka: 7.56
Oboro: 4.57

Had no electricity for a while which of course equals to no Internet.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Beruka - Another axe unit helped immensely by the weapon refinery. Beruka has the highest Def of any flying unit and tied with Cherche for most HP. Her lack of personal weapon allows her to gain even more bulk from the weapon refinery leaving only some armor units and Lukas as marginally better walls. It's great that she has so much def since she needs those procs for meaningful damage. Beruka faces stiff competition even within her own class. Cherche has nine more points of attack in exchange for weaker defense. Michalis, although he can only reach a +5 or so merge level, would give +10 Beruka a run for her money with his personal weapon. Beruka is competitively viable, but waiting for the bonfire/ignis proc leaves her in awkward scenarios. Depending on builds she may even fail to one shot blue mages on player phase. And her neutral matchups against other greens are quite poor. 6 out of 10. Better than her master at least.

Arthur -In the current meta, I believe Arthur is the worst axe in the game for the purposes of Arena Offense and Defense. Useful as he may be for PvE content and as a blue check in Arena Assault, Arthur has no notable stats and ought to cling to his base skills as a blue check if he wants to survive and deal meaningful damage. 32 attack is sub-par among axe infantry with only Anna being lower than that. Arthur's speed is neither high enough to invest in nor low enough to be an easy sacrifice. And his defensive spread is equally un-noteworthy. 2 out of 10.

Past ratings

Spoiler

1. Alfonse - 3
2. Marth - 7
3. Sharena - 3
4. Jagen - 1
5. Anna - 4.5
6. Barst - 3
7. Cain - 4
8. Draug - 7.5
9. Gordin - 5
10. Jeorge - 5.5
11. Abel - 5.5
12. Linde - 9
13. Minerva - Abstain
14. Merric - 3.5
15. Maria - 6
16. Wrys - 3.5
17. Ceada - Abstain
18. Ogma - 4
19. Catria - 4
20. Est - 6
21. Sheena - 6.5
22. Cecilia - 4
23. Clarine - 6.5
24. Matthew - 4
25. Palla - 2.5
26. Roy -7
27. Gwendolyn - 7.5
28. Shanna - 4.5
29. Bartre - 7
30. Fae - 7.5
31. Serra - 4
32. Lissa - 2
33. Tiki - 8
34. Lilina - 7
35. Florina - 1.5
36. M!Robin - 3.5
37. Hector - 8
38. Raven - 8.5
39. Gaius - 4 out of 10
40. Virion - 3.5
41. Raigh - 1.5
42. Sophia - 3.5
43. Sully -2.5
44. Cordelia -7
45. Hawkeye - 5.5
46. Nino - 8
47. Felicia - 6.5
48. Jakob - 1
49. Fir - 4
50. Eliwood - 5.5
51. Donnel - 3.5
52. Nowi - 8.5
53. Frederick - 6.5
54. Cherche - 7.5
55. Saizo - 4
56. Kagero - 4.5
57. Lyn - 7
58. Chrom - 5
59. F!Corrin - 7
60. Azura - 6.5
61. Gunter - 3
62. Camilla - 5.5
63. Azama - 6.5
64. Setsuna - 3.5
65. Stahl - 2.5
66. Lonqu - 3
67. Hinoka - 7.5
68. Oboro - 2.5
69. Beruka - 6
70. Arthur - 2

Ratings I would change in retrospect: Gordin would be a 2.5, Cain would be a 3. Linde would be 7. Nowi would be an 8. And I'd drop Matthew and Saizo to 3.5.

 

 

[Simpsons138]

9 minutes ago, The Priest said:

Had no electricity for a while which of course equals to no Internet.

Dang, that sucks

Edited June 4, 2018 by Simpsons138

[Alexmender]

Beruka. Her stats scream flying tank and that's what she is. A huge focus on Def and Hp allow her to take on every physical blue and green with little trouble and the Iote's Shield seal lets her wall archers too. Her high Def also allow her to have huge bursts of damage with Bonfire/Ignis. She's a bit of a one trick pony though as she's lacking in every other stat meaning that outside of specials she won't do a lot of damage and being unable to use Breath skills makes her inferior to infantry tanks although she makes up for this with her mobility, her Res can be patched with certain refines but due to her lopsided spread it's better to focus on maximizing Beruka's defense instead of trying to make a mixed tank. All in all Beruka covers a pretty unique niche for axe fliers, while Cherche is leagues above her thanks to having an actual Atk stat Beruka will work fine if you need a mobile tank.

Rating: 5/10

Arthur. He has a balanced spread which is very close to that of Barst, but unlike Barst he's practically worse due to having no focus at all. He can work well as an all rounder but outside of dragons and armors that's more of a detriment than a boon. His base kit makes him a fine anti-lance unit so he makes for a cheap unit to use in AA and investment will only make him improve from there. If you like him he'll do fine but he's really outclassed in every role he tries to take. Maybe if he gets a refine he'll find a unique niche for himself, as it is now he's decent but there's little reasons to use him over other axes.

Rating: 3.5/10

[Elieson]

43 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Beruka - Another axe unit helped immensely by the weapon refinery. Beruka has the highest Def of any flying unit and tied with Cherche for most HP. Her lack of personal weapon allows her to gain even more bulk from the weapon refinery leaving only some armor units and Lukas as marginally better walls. It's great that she has so much def since she needs those procs for meaningful damage. Beruka faces stiff competition even within her own class. Cherche has nine more points of attack in exchange for weaker defense. Michalis, although he can only reach a +5 or so merge level, would give +10 Beruka a run for her money with his personal weapon. Beruka is competitively viable, but waiting for the bonfire/ignis proc leaves her in awkward scenarios. Depending on builds she may even fail to one shot blue mages on player phase. And her neutral matchups against other greens are quite poor. 6 out of 10. Better than her master at least.

One word. Guard. She doesn't need QR to deal with threats, and she doesn't need to even attack on most playerphases unless her foe is running Heavy Blade. Her stupidly high defense with a minmaxed def support/build lets her guard tank for days and if enemies can't get their Black Luna/Aether/etc procs off, then they're just punching sand. Her lack of solid one shot offense means she can't do a lot vs mages without a proc or hefty atk buff, which is IMO her only significant issue. I'd say 7/10, on the premise of her being just so good at sponging melee hits. Even stuff like maximum-possible atk +10Ayras supported with a Atk Tactic and +6 in Drives fail to ORKO not-that-uncommon +10Berukas. Ignis is her killing power and since pretty much nothing Melee is going to easily ORKO her outside of Tiki (Y) and Kana (F), sitting on an Ignis proc for the next phase is an incredibly convenient safety net. 

If only she could do something about common mages.

7/10 for effectively dealing with 1/2 of the game with surprising ease, even swords, and being able to sponge some bows despite effectiveness.

 

Arthur though has the worst statspread of anyone. Being -average- in everything means basically nothing. Here's a little chart to show Arthur's averages compared to the averages of other entire unit classes:

Green means he beats it, Yellow means he is it, Red means he doesn't beat it. Notice that outside of defense, he's only marginally better than the average, in certain metas, and in the Axe-Infantry meta, he practically defines average, which nobody wants. Sub-30 speed may have cut it back in the day if you were universally tanky, but nowadays, if your speed is under 35, your others stats, or skills, need to make up for it in some way. Arthur just doesn't. Titania and Narcian do their jobs as lance counters better because of incredibly accessible support that Arthur just lacks, and Lancebreaker isn't even that high up as a B skill for inheritance anymore. Swap is nice though. It sucks, because I love the guy. 1/10. Lowest of the low. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Elieson

[Xenomata]

Beruka
 

Spoiler

 

Yes she is a flying tank, and yes she doesn't have a good Attack stat, so most of her damage will be coming from Bonfire and Ignis. Also yes, her Speed sucks, and her Resistance may get her through an encounter with some blue manaketes and not much else.

I feel like Beruka suffers from the curse of being a good unit that people don't want to actually give a shot because her exemplary stat isn't either Attack or Speed, and her Attack isn't that high, so all they see is a defensive tank and that's it. But Beruka isn't just a flying tank, she is one of the hardest units to scratch BECAUSE she is a flying tank.

Unlike Cavalry, who are generally not very bulky save for some exceptions, and Armors, who generally ARE bulky but don't run skills like Fortify Armor often, Beruka has the advantage of pairing well with the semi-common Fortify Fliers skill, which on a +Def and Def refine brings her up to 50 defense. So already she is taking low damage from other axes who are only barely breaking 50 attack. But give her Fortress Defense or Close Defense, and suddenly she has even MORE defense! I'd give her Close Def though, because then she can briefly wall against a blue Manakete, as mentioned earlier.

And she hasn't even equipped a Sacred Seal yet. Close Defense again or Fortress Defense will bring her over 60 Defense, which even most reds can barely damage. While she can also use Iotes Shield to take pretty much no Bow damage, I prefer the low-damage-from-reds. She can also enable a Ward Fliers team if she wants to, but Beruka is one of the few bulky fliers in the game, so... maybe stick to Fortify Fliers.

So maybe Beruka isn't the offensive force asked for in the current meta. But that's because she is busy walling the melee offensive forces and killing them with Ignis on 60 defense. And keep in mind, she comes with the Killer Axe that evolves into Slaying Axe that she wants, and her Speed guarantees that the only units who won't be doubling her are... pretty limited actually. Other tanks and slow Brave users I suppose. And yeah she can't take magical hits for beans, but very few units outside of armors have good mixed defense anyways.

So please, give Beruka a chance. You will be surprised at how not-damaged she is by the end of battle.

 

Rating: 8/10 One of the bulkiest units in the game. Can negate damage even from some Swords, and has one of the strongest Ignis triggers in the game. She does suffer if a ranged combatant reaches her, but investing in her close-range game makes her a threatening force.

 

Arthur

Spoiler

Arthur is lucky. Bet you never heard that one before.

...he is lucky because it's almost impossible to translate his horrid Luck stat to Heroes. I suppose the Emerald Axe could make it so "I have entered combat with this Emerald Axe, but all my foes are Red!", but that is the one part of Arthur's crappy existence that can be changed.

Otherwise, he suffers from the all to common curse of being a painfully balanced unit, so much so that I'd rather not rag on about it because I'm getting sick of talking about painfully balanced units. While he could theoretically pull off a bulky set with his pretty decent Defense, Arthur will still be taking a lot of damage and not be able to deal back much in return. It would honestly be best to keep his Emerald Axe and let him be what he was built to do: kill Lances.

Though I can't say I've used Arthur myself, it's obvious the things he has going for him and against him. He just has far too much competition to be worth investing too heavily into, and expecting more will just leave you disappointed and probably wishing you pulled Bartre instead.

Rating: 3.5/10 Another painfully balanced unit. His default kit makes him a good Lance killer, so just let him handle the blues without going too far off the road, otherwise you would be asking for some of Arthur's... luck.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Xenomata

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Beruka: Beruka has great defense and HP, but everything else is pretty bad. She has bad attack, speed, AND resistance, and the Glimmer she comes with doesn't really mean much since her attack is so low. Her other skills don't do her any favors, either. She can get a little better with a weapon refinement, but really, she's still under-performing when compared to Minerva, Cherche, and even Camilla! The only thing she has going for her aside for her defense is easy availability. But Camilla is just as available and she's a better investment. 2.5/10

Arthur:

5 hours ago, Elieson said:

Arthur though has the worst statspread of anyone. Being -average- in everything means basically nothing. Here's a little chart to show Arthur's averages compared to the averages of other entire unit classes:

Green means he beats it, Yellow means he is it, Red means he doesn't beat it. Notice that outside of defense, he's only marginally better than the average, in certain metas, and in the Axe-Infantry meta, he practically defines average, which nobody wants. Sub-30 speed may have cut it back in the day if you were universally tanky, but nowadays, if your speed is under 35, your others stats, or skills, need to make up for it in some way. Arthur just doesn't. Titania and Narcian do their jobs as lance counters better because of incredibly accessible support that Arthur just lacks, and Lancebreaker isn't even that high up as a B skill for inheritance anymore. Swap is nice though. It sucks, because I love the guy. 1/10. Lowest of the low. 

These are also my thoughts on Arthur and I'd give him the same score.

[LordFrigid]

Beruka

• Physically bulky stat line featuring high Def and good HP, but low Atk, Spd, and Res.
  • Poor KO capability on the Player Phase due to her low Atk and Spd stats.
  • Highest KO capability comes from a Distant Counter/QR/Iote's Shield set, giving her very strong blue and decent green matchups. She has difficulty with dragons and mages. Her ideal usage, however, is more along the lines of a one-range focused physical check. Guard/QR and a Def-boosting A Passive allows her to hard-wall Lances, take miniscule damage from Axes, and even deal with some Swords.
• As a flier, she can run a flier field or combat buff in her C passive slot. She can also provide Panic Ploy support with her good HP stat.

Overall, I give her 7.5 for combat (very strong blue, mediocre green matchups on defense with a generalist defensive set), and 1.5 for support (flier field/combat buff, panic ploy capability), for a total rating of 7.5/10. 

Arthur

• Balanced stat line featuring decent HP, middling Atk and Def, and low Spd and Res.
  • Mediocre player phase matchups due to his poor offensive stat line. He can run a Brave Axe, but it's nothing to write home about.
  • Strong blue, decent green matchups on defense with a Giant Spoon+/DC/Guard/QR set. His Def isn't really optimized for the role, however, and he will take a decent chunk of damage against high-caliber Lances, and outright die to strong enough Axe foes.
• He can provide Panic Ploy support with his decent HP stat.

Overall, I give him 6 for combat (strong blue, decent green matchups on defense), and 1 for support (basic field/combat buff, panic ploy capability), for a total rating of 5.5/10.

~

Scoring method:

Spoiler

Units are evaluated based on both their combat performance and their team support capabilities (i.e. their whole contribution to a team).

• Combat performance is judged by matchups, especially against enemies that are at triangle disadvantage or neutral to the unit. Performance against more relevant meta threats is more valuable than performance against units that are rarely seen. Triangle Adept sets are not considered, though they might be noted. Scale of 0 to 10.
  • Sustainability and filling a useful niche are given small bonuses, when applicable.
  • I will look at least one PP-focused and one EP-focused skill set for each unit, but only evaluate based on performance for whichever phase I deem the unit to be stronger on.
• Support capabilities are decided by how much support a unit can provide (without horribly compromising their combat capabilities), and how valuable I feel that support is. Scale of 0 to 3.
• At the end, the combat and support scores will be weighted (with a heavy focus on combat performance), combined, and rounded to the nearest .5 to obtain the total rating. Dancers and Singers will get +1 point to their total rating (not to exceed 10), because I value Dance/Sing utility highly.

This method of evaluation essentially compares each unit to a hypothetical "god unit" who is stellar at everything, instead of each unit to each other.

All my ratings.

Edited June 5, 2018 by LordFrigid
Typo

[XRay]

6 hours ago, The Priest said:

If we do that we would have to re-do the other Colors as well. I don't see a reason to give Green alone that special privilege.

We could do that with the seasonals since IS just dumps new Green into the Seasonal pool instead of patching up the regular pool. We have very few Red seasonals.

I think it is fine to recycle other colors as well. That way, we do not have to worry about running out of units since each color just cycles back to the beginning and is independent of each other.

9 hours ago, Elieson said:

Arthur though has the worst statspread of anyone. Being -average- in everything means basically nothing. Here's a little chart to show Arthur's averages compared to the averages of other entire unit classes:

That picture looks nice. Maybe I should just screenshot Google Docs and the simulator/calculator to save myself from typing.

[Shiki]

Beruka: 6.00
Arthur: 2.75

Takumi, Wild Card

Spoiler

Max. Stats:
36/40/43
29/32/35
30/33/36
22/25/29
14/18/21

Base Skills:

Fujin Yumi ( Effective against flying foes. If unit’s HP ≥ 50%, unit can move through foes’ spaces.)
( - )
Vengeance

Close Counter
( - )
Threaten Spd

Sakura, Loving Priestess

Spoiler

Max. Stats:
33/36/40
24/28/31
26/30/33
21/24/28
26/30/33

Base Skills:

Fear+
Physic+
Still-Water Balm

( - )
( - )
Fortify Def

Btw. I'm not going to count your votes if you didn't participate at least once in the RTU.

Edited June 9, 2018 by The Priest

[Alexmender]

Takumi. Once known as the strongest unit in the entire game, oh how the mighty fall. Takumi has an average spread with a focus on offense, his Spd is in the borderline range which allows him to be relatively fast as long as he has a +Spd nature and his Atk is passable with a base of 32. He's able to use the myriad of inheritable bows available to him to a certain degree of success with the exception of Guard Bow as that one is useless due to his terrible bulk. Notice how I'm not talking about his Prf weapon, Fujin Yumi is simply terrible with a niche effect that doesn't benefit him in the least when it comes to combat. It can have uses in some PvE scenarios but in arena it just sucks. Takumi himself is a decent unit but he lacks the min-maxed spread of Bride Cordelia and his Prf doesn't give him anything to play with. 

Rating: 5.5/10

Sakura. She's an interesting unit, her spread makes her a extremely balanced healer that doesn't really focus on any stat. This hurts her as she's unable to be a tank or a colorless mage, it doesn't help that now that healing scales on Atk her low base makes her mediocre as a healer. Sakura will do basic stuff like Dazzling Pain+ and Savage Blow 6 decently as every other healer but it's very hard to recommend her when she's practically in the middle of the pack.

Rating: 3/10

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Whoops, was too late to buff my score for Beruka. Should have done it yesterday.

Takumi - Once at the top of Archer picks, Takumi has slipped to the average. 32/33 offenses are still quite good, but his physical bulk isn't notable and he's quite weak to magic and dragons. His personal weapon is also among the lower considerations for your Divine Dew, but since it's such an interesting niche I would personally stick with it to differentiate from other archers who would wield the brave or firesweep bows marginally better. His weapon grants the ability to slip through forests and warp to allies, but only if he keeps his health above half. The ability to slip through terrain would be far more useful on a horse archer who also has to contend with trenches. It doesn't even give him the full range of movement a flying archer would have naturally. Warping is nice, but everything you can feasibly attack will probably kill you on counterattack since you're not using a brave or firesweep bow. I think most good scenarios for warping would be getting Takumi to a position where he can reposition or draw back somebody that already went in. I hesistate to call Takumi a competitive archer pick when there are half a dozen better firesweep/brave users. As well as better personal weapons possessed by Brave Lyn, Hinoka, and debatably Jeorge. But there isn't anything particularly wrong with Takumi either so I'll go with a 5.5 out of 10 for at least side stepping the powercreep rather than drowning in it.

Sakura - average out the stats of every infantry healer and you've got Sakura's stat spread. 30 is the bare minimum res you could expect from her class while her attack and speed fall short of matching other options. Building her is tricky due to three painful superbanes in attack, speed, and res. She can't ploy as good as other picks, tank, or avoid as many doubles. 3 out of 10. Not Lissa bad in stat distribution, but you could make a stronger argument for Wrys at least.

Whoa, my scores were ninja'd

Past Ratings 

Spoiler

1. Alfonse - 3
2. Marth - 7
3. Sharena - 3
4. Jagen - 1
5. Anna - 4.5
6. Barst - 3
7. Cain - 4
8. Draug - 7.5
9. Gordin - 5
10. Jeorge - 5.5
11. Abel - 5.5
12. Linde - 9
13. Minerva - Abstain
14. Merric - 3.5
15. Maria - 6
16. Wrys - 3.5
17. Ceada - Abstain
18. Ogma - 4
19. Catria - 4
20. Est - 6
21. Sheena - 6.5
22. Cecilia - 4
23. Clarine - 6.5
24. Matthew - 4
25. Palla - 2.5
26. Roy -7
27. Gwendolyn - 7.5
28. Shanna - 4.5
29. Bartre - 7
30. Fae - 7.5
31. Serra - 4
32. Lissa - 2
33. Tiki - 8
34. Lilina - 7
35. Florina - 1.5
36. M!Robin - 3.5
37. Hector - 8
38. Raven - 8.5
39. Gaius - 4 out of 10
40. Virion - 3.5
41. Raigh - 1.5
42. Sophia - 3.5
43. Sully -2.5
44. Cordelia -7
45. Hawkeye - 5.5
46. Nino - 8
47. Felicia - 6.5
48. Jakob - 1
49. Fir - 4
50. Eliwood - 5.5
51. Donnel - 3.5
52. Nowi - 8.5
53. Frederick - 6.5
54. Cherche - 7.5
55. Saizo - 4
56. Kagero - 4.5
57. Lyn - 7
58. Chrom - 5
59. F!Corrin - 7
60. Azura - 6.5
61. Gunter - 3
62. Camilla - 5.5
63. Azama - 6.5
64. Setsuna - 3.5
65. Stahl - 2.5
66. Lonqu - 3
67. Hinoka - 7.5
68. Oboro - 2.5
69. Beruka - 6
70. Arthur - 2
71. Takumi - 5.5
72. Sakura - 3

Ratings I would change in retrospect: Gordin would be a 2.5, Cain would be a 3. Linde would be 7. Nowi would be an 8. And I'd drop Matthew and Saizo to 3.5. Beruka would be a 7.

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Glennstavos

[Nanima]

So I'll just slip in here to talk about my faves. I fully aknowledge my biases for these two units but will do my best to stay fair and reasonable about it.

*Ahem*

Takumi - He really isn't as good as he used to be, simply due to how much the game has changed over the last year. He has gained a ton of competition, and the meta is currently not very kind to infantry archers, or infantry in general really. To make matters worse, when given the chance to bring him back up to speed, or at least give him his own niche, the devs simply borked his weapon refinement. I suppose it's not entirely useless, and it's better than it was before, but it doesn't really help him out in a significant way. A Brave bow or Firesweep build is always going to be more useful, and those can be accessed by the powercreeping/innovative monsters he is sharing his weapon class with. Still, he is perfectly viable as an archer, with a decent spread and utility. A reliable and now easily accessible (if not mergable) option for your team. He may not be the terror of the arena any longer, but I still use him everywhere else with no reason to complain. That's why I score him as a 6.0.

Sakura - Oh Sakura, you do deserve better. Her spread is by no means terrible, although not really outstanding either. She can decently pull off almost all possible healer builds, but she is not the best option for any of them. She's also infantry, which means she is left in the dust compared to mounted healers and will be left further once we get a flying one. Nontheless I have always appreciated her versatility and utility. You know exactly what you are getting with her, and it is in no way awful. She works perfectly fine with even minor investment, and really shines with a lot (although not as much as other units obviously). Because of this I give her a 4.0.  

Hope this was fine. I do still use these two a lot, and while they obviously don't compare to the meta, I still see potential in using them outside of the "fave factor".

[Fire Emblem Fan]

3 hours ago, The Priest said:

Btw. I'm not going to count your votes if you didn't participate at least once in the RTU.

?

Takumi: Takumi has certainly fallen from grace since the game's launch. I remember hating having to face him in the arena, but now...not so much. His offense is still good enough, but he's been powercreeped by other archers in the game. You have special archers like Bride Cordelia, rare ones like Brave Lyn, and you can honestly make Jeorge work just as well. There's nothing overtly bad about Takumi, there's just others who can now be just as good or better. 6/10

Sakura: A totally average healer in a game where most healers are just that, average. Her stats aren't impressive and nor are they outright terrible, she heals just like any healer does, and she's shaky in defense. It's really just down to character preference if you wanna use her. 5/10