Cirosan

Playtesters needed for mod to always recruit Norne (UPDATE: Mod finished; disregard)

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A finalized version of the mod is available here:

 

Thanks again to everyone in the thread for their help.

 

Edited by Cirosan
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Hello, Cirosan!  You still here?  If so, I was wondering if it might be a good idea to have her come earlier on in the Prologues somehow?  Just so the H5 Prologues aren't so insane?

Edited by FionordeQuester

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Well, I've played through the Prologue four different times.  Once on H5, once on H1, and twice on Normal...and I'm not getting Norne.  She ain't showing up on Chapter 1, no matter what.

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On 5/15/2018 at 4:44 AM, FionordeQuester said:

Well, I've played through the Prologue four different times.  Once on H5, once on H1, and twice on Normal...and I'm not getting Norne.  She ain't showing up on Chapter 1, no matter what.

Well seeing this makes me have my own doubts...

But I am certainly glad for this Mod if it does in fact do as it claims, as I've always wanted to be able to have Norne and the choice of Decoy in harder difficulties (Get out of here Gaggles! As much as I'd love to sacrifice Jagen he's literally a necessity in H5...)

I hope this is still being worked on, as this is something I've wanted for ages... xD

 

EDIT: Well just gave it a try, and I can confirm that Norne is not recruited automatically like I had hoped. She is of course still recruitable if you lost a unit aside from the Decoy of course, but just the Decoy/Killing Gordin for EXP doesn't do it. But I also have faith Cirosan will end up getting this patch working as he's given us much quality in the past. :D

Edited by RookofSpades
Additional information/update

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Now... I hate to be the bearer of bad news... But it still doesn't work. :(:

I've tried multiple difficulties and I doublechecked with the Read Me to make sure my source ROM matched exactly. Everything else in the patch works as far as I'm aware. The higher difficulties all load me in the Prologue of course. (Only the Norne recruiting part doesn't happen.)

I even make sure to wait for Chapter 1 to start, and the cute little pink haired archer is no where to be seen. (The troubles we go through for the game's best unit...)

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10 hours ago, Cirosan said:

Alright, third time's the charm. I believe this version should work. Try it and get back to me.

Installation instructions are in the readme.

Patch a fresh, unaltered ROM and start a new game when playtesting it

https://mega.nz/#!o0kggSIZ!VOY0BbiWSDcue8_J2itdOV68gcC_xLvY6gBqmBUlQ1o

Alright third time does seem to work in a sense. I immediately loaded up H5 and started in Chapter 1 not the prologue (Not sure if that was intentional or not, if you perhaps removed the Hard-Prologue patch for testing purposes.)

Anyway, I found Norne chilling next to Draug, so all was well in that regard. In Normal mode you of course start on the prologue, so all is fine there, and Norne was recruit able just fine. (Gonna test the later chapters in Normal mode later, but for now I see no issues other than the not starting on prologue in harder modes thing.)

Though in hindsight, I did notice the unit placement was different when I reached normal mode versus when I started it through Hard. Not sure if that really matters, but I thought it might be a point of interest to you.

Edited by RookofSpades
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13 minutes ago, RookofSpades said:

Alright third time does seem to work in a sense. I immediately loaded up H5 and started in Chapter 1 not the prologue (Not sure if that was intentional or not, if you perhaps removed the Hard-Prologue patch for testing purposes.)

Anyway, I found Norne chilling next to Draug, so all was well in that regard. In Normal mode you of course start on the prologue, so all is fine there, and Norne was recruit able just fine. (Gonna test the later chapters in Normal mode later, but for now I see no issues other than the not starting on prologue in harder modes thing.)

Start the prologue in normal mode and speed run all the way to chapter 4.

 

EDIT: Here's a patch that has the hard prologue included

https://mega.nz/#!pgFWkDSL!IYP8VBoyMIWimfo_1XZzxIpkuZxp0G3V0dhwixRq29M

Edited by Cirosan

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6 hours ago, RookofSpades said:

Alright third time does seem to work in a sense. I immediately loaded up H5 and started in Chapter 1 not the prologue (Not sure if that was intentional or not, if you perhaps removed the Hard-Prologue patch for testing purposes.)

Anyway, I found Norne chilling next to Draug, so all was well in that regard. In Normal mode you of course start on the prologue, so all is fine there, and Norne was recruit able just fine. (Gonna test the later chapters in Normal mode later, but for now I see no issues other than the not starting on prologue in harder modes thing.)

Though in hindsight, I did notice the unit placement was different when I reached normal mode versus when I started it through Hard. Not sure if that really matters, but I thought it might be a point of interest to you.

Are you saying that Norne was recruitable without killing anyone (besides the decoy as part of the plot)?

 

EDIT: Here's a patch that has the hard prologue included, as above

https://mega.nz/#!pgFWkDSL!IYP8VBoyMIWimfo_1XZzxIpkuZxp0G3V0dhwixRq29M

 

But please do clarify if Norne was indeed recruitable without killing anyone besides the decoy. If so, please share a save (a .sav file, not a save state) made after prologue 3 but before prologue 4. Thank you.

Edited by Cirosan

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13 hours ago, Cirosan said:

Are you saying that Norne was recruitable without killing anyone (besides the decoy as part of the plot)?

 

EDIT: Here's a patch that has the hard prologue included, as above

https://mega.nz/#!pgFWkDSL!IYP8VBoyMIWimfo_1XZzxIpkuZxp0G3V0dhwixRq29M

 

But please do clarify if Norne was indeed recruitable without killing anyone besides the decoy. If so, please share a save (a .sav file, not a save state) made after prologue 3 but before prologue 4. Thank you.

To clarify, Norne WAS recruitable without killing anyone besides the decoy.

I have attached the SAV file to this post. (I also wanted to ask how difficult it was to add an additional spawn point to the chapters? I mostly am wondering because there is a method to get through the prologue without killing anyone via the Decoy or by Killing Gordin, albeit via Cheats. I was mostly curious for if I ever decided to attempt this myself as it seemed pointless since currently if you were to perform the Method Caeda disappears in Chapter 1 and only reappears if you don't pick up a character. Which would happen Chapter 2 if you skipped Wrys, or Chapter 3 since you Can't Get Castor without her.)

Anyway I noticed no issues, and I tested a couple different difficulties and I got all the way to Chapter 4 in each run, no problems. (Though Chapter 3 definitely feels more full than I remember when you add in Norne.) I haven't tested killing her off yet and seeing how that effects subsequent maps so that'll be what I look into next.

Norne Test Save.sav

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3 hours ago, RookofSpades said:

To clarify, Norne WAS recruitable without killing anyone besides the decoy.

I have attached the SAV file to this post. (I also wanted to ask how difficult it was to add an additional spawn point to the chapters? I mostly am wondering because there is a method to get through the prologue without killing anyone via the Decoy or by Killing Gordin, albeit via Cheats. I was mostly curious for if I ever decided to attempt this myself as it seemed pointless since currently if you were to perform the Method Caeda disappears in Chapter 1 and only reappears if you don't pick up a character. Which would happen Chapter 2 if you skipped Wrys, or Chapter 3 since you Can't Get Castor without her.)

Anyway I noticed no issues, and I tested a couple different difficulties and I got all the way to Chapter 4 in each run, no problems. (Though Chapter 3 definitely feels more full than I remember when you add in Norne.) I haven't tested killing her off yet and seeing how that effects subsequent maps so that'll be what I look into next.

Norne Test Save.sav

Excellent. Let me know how Norne appears in Chapters 1-3 if she dies during one of them - ideally, if she dies in chapter 1, she should be gone in all further chapters, as is normal game behavior.

It's relatively simple to add a new spawn point, although you're not adding one per se - you can't increase or decrease the total number of spawn points in a chapter. Instead, a took the spawn points of no-name, generic enemies in chapters 1-3, moved their position to be adjacent to Draug's spawn point (since we see Norne is a friend of Draug), and changed them to spawn Norne instead of an enemy, with the appropriate AI flags to match. It was all done in Nightmare and the Updated Unit Disposition Editor.

Because of this, it would be theoretically possible to make a mod that removes the need to sacrifice the decoy or kill Gordin to proceed in prologue 4; however, as I consider the sacrifice to be very narratively-important, it's not something I'd be interested in making. As I said, I just wanted Norne around because she represented the last vestiges of the absurd "death requirements" design.

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One thing I noticed while checking this out- at the beginning of C1, Marth is visible on the map in this spawn location for a few seconds while Caeda flies from the castle to Marth's fortress.

Marth briefly visible during Caeda's cutscene

Considering your last comment, I'm assuming that this was intended to be Norne's spawn point? Once the map starts for real, he maintains this position: The spawn points of the units during the first chapter, including Norne, are visible.

And Norne takes this spawn point, while marth's goes to one of the cavs, who were in the bottom position in the base game iirc.
For clarity's sake, this was done using a previously unmodified ROM, on a Normal mode start, with the Hard Prologues mod on (just so I can test those later), And Norne was recruited without sacrificing anyone besides the sacrifice (I chose cain).
Here's the save file. NorneAlwaysTest.sav
Gonna go kill her off now, see how the game treats it for the next 3 chapters, then try the same thing in higher difficulties.

Edited by Golddragon387
inaccuracies were corrected

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11 hours ago, Golddragon387 said:

And Norne takes this spawn point, while marth's goes to one of the cavs, who were in the bottom position in the base game iirc.
For clarity's sake, this was done using a previously unmodified ROM, on a Normal mode start, with the Hard Prologues mod on (just so I can test those later), And Norne was recruited without sacrificing anyone besides the sacrifice (I chose cain).

Thanks for documenting everything so thoroughly. Based on what I think is going on, I have four key questions:

 

* What happens if Frey is chosen as the sacrifice? How does this affect the spawn points in chapter 1?

* How does the game spawn her in chapters 2 and 3 (both in cases where Frey was the sacrifice and in cases where anyone but Frey was the sacrifice)?

* Does Norne's inventory, level, stats, and EXP carry over properly between chapters if she survives?

* Does Norne stay dead if she's killed in an earlier chapter?

 

We're getting close to figuring this out. Thanks to everyone for their help.

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Alright so I did some extensive testing and I determined that her spawn is the same regardless of if Frey or anyone else is the sacrifice. (While I haven't tested where she spawns if you kill basically everyone each chapter, though that might be a bit excessive)

I was able to determine, that she does indeed cease spawning inbetween Chapters as I tested by killing her off in Chapter 2 and she didn't spawn in Chapter 3.

I also tested if her levels carried over inbetween chapters she gained 1 level in Chapter 1 with a +1 HP boost (with a remainder of 20 EXP) her inventory, EXP and stats all carried over just fine. I've attached screenshots to show my testing. (All images with a J in the name are where I used Jagen as a decoy instead of Frey.)

 

Chapter 2  (J).pngChapter 3 (J).pngChapter 3 Norne Dead.pngChapter 4.pngFrey Decoy.pngJagen Decoy.pngLevel From Ch1 to Ch2.png

Also in regards to the making a mod in regards to removing the Decoy I wasn't necessarily interested in that. (If one uses a Cheat they can extend the usage of the Door Key you receive in Prologue 4, thus opening the door at the end of the fort without using a Decoy, so one can get all the units that way.) I was more interested in just the process of creating a spawn point since if I were able to create a spawn point, I'd be able to use my workaround and not worry about missing out on Castor or going a couple chapters without Caeda.

Edited by RookofSpades

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6 hours ago, RookofSpades said:

Alright so I did some extensive testing and I determined that her spawn is the same regardless of if Frey or anyone else is the sacrifice. (While I haven't tested where she spawns if you kill basically everyone each chapter, though that might be a bit excessive)

I was able to determine, that she does indeed cease spawning inbetween Chapters as I tested by killing her off in Chapter 2 and she didn't spawn in Chapter 3.

I also tested if her levels carried over inbetween chapters she gained 1 level in Chapter 1 with a +1 HP boost (with a remainder of 20 EXP) her inventory, EXP and stats all carried over just fine. I've attached screenshots to show my testing. (All images with a J in the name are where I used Jagen as a decoy instead of Frey.)

I found basically the same, though I did it on H1, using the Hardmode Prologues mod. Seconding the claims that:
- Her spawn doesn't change based upon the sacrifice in C1-C3
-Her stats carry over fine if she lives, and she stays dead if she dies anywhere between C1 and C4.

Edited by Golddragon387

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This should be the last test build that we need, hopefully. Hard Prologue and Gaiden Reqs Removal included.

https://mega.nz/#!Q4sXzIbB!5hFqB8RPDOjsD9jTAbUkZP0C-j7YNnPV-r_MRpsBFOs

 

Two things:

* Start a new game entirely to test this one. Don't import an old save. Sorry for the inconvenience on this one.

* Starting from Chapter 4 onward, can Norne be deployed normally from the battle preparations menu? Do her stats continue to carry over when she's deployed in this method? Does she continue to function properly?

 

Norne should appear in her proper spawn points - of note is that in chapter 1, during the intro when all of the pirates are pillaging everything and Caeda flies to Marth's fort, Norne will already be visible on the world map. She'll function completely normally otherwise; it's just a graphical glitch resulting from converting an enemy slot to her's.

Edited by Cirosan

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On 6/12/2018 at 4:45 PM, Cirosan said:

Norne should appear in her proper spawn points - of note is that in chapter 1, during the intro when all of the pirates are pillaging everything and Caeda flies to Marth's fort, Norne will already be visible on the world map. She'll function completely normally otherwise; it's just a graphical glitch resulting from converting an enemy slot to her's.

Testing the latest patch provided. So far things seem to be working normally. However when you say it's Norne on the map for chapter one, it's always Marth in the position that I assume is her intended spawn point.

Marth not Norne.png

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On 6/17/2018 at 2:04 AM, RookofSpades said:

Testing the latest patch provided. So far things seem to be working normally. However when you say it's Norne on the map for chapter one, it's always Marth in the position that I assume is her intended spawn point.

Marth not Norne.png

 

That's very strange - on my computer, on all the files I've tested, Norne spawns there. Frankly, I might just have to accept this as a known issue and move on, if it doesn't cause any other adverse effects.

So, just to confirm...

* The spawn-point switcheroo doesn't impact anything else, as far as you can tell?

* Norne spawns normally in chapters 2 and 3?

* Norne's experience and inventory carry over between chapters correctly, and she does not return if she dies in an earlier chapter?

* Starting from chapter 4, Norne can be properly adjusted using the battle preparations menu, including repositioning her, deploying/undeploying her, managing her inventory, and so on?

 

If all of these are sorted out, as previous feedback seems to suggest, I'm ready to release this as a mod proper.

Thanks for your continued patience with the playtesting - the mod wouldn't have come this far without you.

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Chapter 1 - same Marth problem, he starts next to Draug, and Norne is in the middle

Chapter 2 - Norne spawns normally (for me, she started right next to Marth, Cain and Abel)

Chapter 3 - Norne does NOT come back if killed

Chapter 4 - Norne appears in the prep screen correctly, and can be reclassed.

So far, aside from Marth bug in Ch.1 everything is working fine.

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A finalized version of the mod which greatly mitigates the chapter 1 glitch is available here:

 

I'd like to thank all of you for your help with playtesting this. You've all been credited under the appropriate section in the thread.

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