So what's going on in North and South Korea?

[indigoasis]

Recently, the leaders of North Korea and South Korea met up and had peace talks and whatnot. In history class, our teacher and some of the other students were talking about how it's the real end of the Korean War, making some of what we've learned about it (i.e, the war "ending" in a stalemate) technically wrong. Here's a link to an article from the Chicago Tribune talking about "things to remember," which voices some doubts about this.

I have my doubts about this whole situation, too, like this whole thing being some kind of secret ploy by NK, but that's a conspiracy theory for another day. Regardless, I'd like to hear what everyone else's thoughts are on this.

[Captain Karnage]

Let's bee real here, our president has made statements in the past towards NK saying that he will retaliate if NK tries to do something. I think the country is calming down, I'm surprised their hasn't been a rebellion that's taken down one of their leaders since the beginning.

Tweet for refrence

[Tryhard]

NK is notorious for making absurd demands that can never be fulfilled, and I believe they've been in the position before where they sat down for peace talks... but nothing ever came out of it.

I hope I'm wrong, because it would be beneficial for the region at least even if KJU/NK are still horrible to their own people.

[Rukina]

Mounting outside pressure from multiple countries along with the unifying effect of the world-renowned Winter Olympics that was held in South Korea makes me think that North Korea will follow through with their part of the agreement this time.  This is their chance to gracefully switch to a more peaceful stance on their own instead of blatantly yielding to others telling them what to do.  North Korea will also have more to gain than to lose from this since peace with South Korea will mean one less enemy on their list and trade conditions will improve, among other things.

[SuperIb]

I usually like to be optimistic about this kind of stuff but I can't help but to have doubts? It just feels off to me, I guess. I don't really have anymore to add other than that. However, I do hope that things turn for the better. (Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't North Korea not even air anything related to the peace talks when those were taking place? I thought I saw something about them just playing their normal television broadcasts. I thought that was odd - if I'm incorrect about this, let me know.)

[indigoasis]

15 minutes ago, SuperIb said:

I usually like to be optimistic about this kind of stuff but I can't help but to have doubts? It just feels off to me, I guess. I don't really have anymore to add other than that. However, I do hope that things turn for the better. (Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't North Korea not even air anything related to the peace talks when those were taking place? I thought I saw something about them just playing their normal television broadcasts. I thought that was odd - if I'm incorrect about this, let me know.)

This probably isn't the exact article or news source that you saw, but it has the same information. Countries like China and NK are pretty heavy on censorship, so I'm not surprised. Hell, NK's hotels are filled with books, but the kicker is that the books were written by Kim Il Sung. If you need proof, it's in this documentary. It's mentioned at 9:19 for reference. Anyway, I'm getting off topic....

But yeah, what you said about the peace talks not airing is correct.

[SuperIb]

1 minute ago, indigospace said:

This probably isn't the exact article or news source that you saw, but it has the same information. Countries like China and NK are pretty heavy on censorship, so I'm not surprised. Hell, NK's hotels are filled with books, but the kicker is that the books were written by Kim Il Sung. If you need proof, it's in this documentary. It's mentioned at 9:19 for reference. Anyway, I'm getting off topic....

But yeah, what you said about the peace talks not airing is correct.

Ahh yeah! The article I saw basically had the same information. Anywho, thanks for that. :p

[indigoasis]

7 minutes ago, SuperIb said:

Ahh yeah! The article I saw basically had the same information. Anywho, thanks for that. :p

No problem, I'm glad to help.

I find it strange that they didn't broadcast that too, seeing as how it would more of less present Kim Jong Un in a positive light for his people, I would think. Then again, it could've been announced in newspapers or something.

[SuperIb]

9 minutes ago, indigospace said:

I find it strange that they didn't broadcast that too, seeing as how it would more of less present Kim Jong Un in a positive light for his people, I would think. Then again, it could've been announced in newspapers or something.

To me, not broadcasting it comes off as it being something small, minuscule, unimportant. That's why I have some mixed feelings about all the celebration stuff. It just feels like those in charge in NK don't care. Then again, that's just me.

Did NK say anything specifically about what they plan on doing with the nuclear missiles that they currently have? I know that they're stopping nuclear tests and what-not, but I don't recall anything being said about those missiles that they already have and what their plan with those are.

[indigoasis]

1 hour ago, SuperIb said:

Did NK say anything specifically about what they plan on doing with the nuclear missiles that they currently have? I know that they're stopping nuclear tests and what-not, but I don't recall anything being said about those missiles that they already have and what their plan with those are.

Not sure about what they'll be doing with the missiles, but my best guess is that they will (hopefully) be disarming them. It's the best course of action to take in order to avoid any potential accidents or threats of nuclear war.

[Tetragrammaton]

1 hour ago, indigospace said:

Not sure about what they'll be doing with the missiles, but my best guess is that they will (hopefully) be disarming them. It's the best course of action to take in order to avoid any potential accidents or threats of nuclear war.

No, they will not disarm them, they just stop because they think they have enough fire power to defense themselves for now, so it's time to take a rest and have some dinner.

They can go back to work (nuclear jobs) if things dont turn out well for them.

[Chapter Serf]

In 1953, North and South Korea agreed to a truce and the establishment of the 38th Parallel and the DMZ. There was no formal end of hostilities, so yes, the Korean War has been ongoing for the past 65 years, even though there has been no fighting. One thing the two leaders agreed on was to formally end the war.

As to why this is happening?

I've seen speculation that NK's nuclear test site is either in extreme danger of collapsing, or has already partially collapsed, perhaps making the site unusable, or unusable without the danger of total collapse and a dangerous nuclear fallout on par with Chernobyl. Now, while I doubt Kim Jong-Un gives much of a damn about his peasants getting irradiated to death, he probably A. cares about HIM getting irradiated to death, and B. China getting irradiated to death, as the fallout from that would undoubtedly threaten large swaths of China, something the Chinese government would take a very dim view of indeed.

There's also the speculation that the north has just run out of nuclear material. They can't make bombs anymore, they can't test bombs anymore so there's no reason to be a douche about it anymore.

There's also the sanctions perhaps having an affect on the country and the threat of starving peons actually rising up is getting to a point of danger, and the army's loyalty might not be as strong as the government would like.

Then there's China which, while a staunch ally of the North for the past 65 years, has started to sour on the North as Un waves his nukes around in the US and the South's faces. China doesn't want a nuclear war on their doorstep as the fallout would undoubtedly affect China's territory.

Lastly, there's also the fact that Trump is sort of crazy and might just make good on his threats to end the North's nuclear ambitions on his own terms. And with Kim Jong-Un's track record of threatening the US at every other turn, the rest of the world might just see Trump as justified were he to attack.

Do I think anything will come of it? Well, I could probably throw Kim Jong-un farther than I trust him (and I couldn't throw that tub of lard very far without the help of say a trebuchet), but I remain cautiously optimistic. I won't be surprised if nothing comes of it, but I imagine I'll be pleasantly surprised of something good does happen.

[Dandy Druid]

I think it's bit premature for your teacher to claim that the Korean War is ending. Yes, the situation looks good for now, but I can't help but feel cynical. Who knows if they're able to smooth things out in a way that both parties are happy. However, I do think the reason peace talks are occurring can be due to multiple factors:

• The Olympics usually represent World Peace and collaboration, and the fact that the previous Olympics this Winter allowed both North and South Koreans to represent Team Korea has made many Koreans long for a time where they can be united and there's no need for the wall. Or rather, they want peace.
• KJU knows that other world powers are no longer taking his bait, so his threats don't have the leverage they used to. I'm not the biggest fan of Trump, but this is one example where his stubborn and obstinate nature may have worked to his advantage; you can argue that he shares a lot of similarities with KJU.
• If North Korea is really running out of resources, the government has to think fast to build bridges before the people come for their heads.

[De Geso]

According to the president of South Korea, Trump's pressure on Kim has been a factor in the first major peace talks in more than 60 years. There are talks of total denuclearization, but we will see.

Edited May 3, 2018 by YouSquiddinMe

[Bubba Jones]

To be honest this happened before already.

Gen. Park had a similar summit and declaration alongside Kim Il Sung back in the 70’s as the US pulled out of Vietnam and opened relations with the PRC.  This repeated itself a few times over the years with some things happening or not happening, like the Kaesong Industrial Zone and the sunshine policy.

Why is this happening?  I think it’s because Un feels comfortably in control of the DPRK and can afford to reciprocate with Pres. Moon with no loss or threat to his power.  I doubt an actual peace treaty will come out of it as there is a lot to argue over, the two disputed islands, nuclear weapons, normalized trade, economic development, reciprocal visitation and migration, over 50 years of distinct political and social development, etc, etc. Even if it does Korea remains the most militarized place on Earth and the state of war will probably transition into a Cold War between two distinct states with their neighbors still rubbing their foreheads while drinking heavily as they consider the possibilities.

As for total denuclearization, I don’t think that will happen.  It is the least rational option for the DPRK to pick since it provides the most security for the KWP and Un to remain in power in the DPRK without the risk of overt action from foreigners changing that.  A test ban and restriction on creating more nuclear weapons may be on the table.  Again it may be because Un is comfortable with his current nuclear arsenal and can focus on other areas of his state’s economy.

As far as sanctions having an effect or continuing to have an effect on this outcome - I don’t think that’s the case, the DPRK’s economy and society were engineered around self-containment only becoming really vulnerable with the death of Il and the collapse of the soviet bloc.  It still soldiered on over the years to become as impenetrable today as it ever was.

Either way, Pres. Moon is sincere in his policy for engagement and I do look forward to see what happens and to see how much of my expectations were right and wrong.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Bubba Jones

[Tryhard]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44133308

I expected something like this.

 

[Bubba Jones]

I find Korean sources give better information on Korean events since 1993 than sources outside the pen.

http://m.koreatimes.co.kr/phone/news/view.jsp?req_newsidx=249079

[SuperIb]

13 hours ago, Bubba Jones said:

I find Korean sources give better information on Korean events since 1993 than sources outside the pen.

http://m.koreatimes.co.kr/phone/news/view.jsp?req_newsidx=249079

Mmmm this link doesn't seem to work?

Also yeah. I think everybody saw this coming, haha. (Hm, I wonder if this'll have an effect on Trump's Noble Prize nomination, kehe)

[Bubba Jones]

On 5/17/2018 at 2:37 AM, SuperIb said:

Mmmm this link doesn't seem to work?

Also yeah. I think everybody saw this coming, haha. (Hm, I wonder if this'll have an effect on Trump's Noble Prize nomination, kehe)

You can just go to the front page, it’s all over KBS, SBS, and the local papers if your hunting for specifics and what the Ministry of Reunification is up to.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/sublist_103.html

[Tryhard]

On 5/17/2018 at 7:37 AM, SuperIb said:

Also yeah. I think everybody saw this coming, haha. (Hm, I wonder if this'll have an effect on Trump's Noble Prize nomination, kehe)

Even if you care about that sort of stuff, the Nobel Peace Prize has been worthless for a while.

Fucking Henry Kissinger got it. It means literally nothing. Go ask a Trump supporter if they approve of Henry Kissinger, someone I'm sure they all like, getting the Nobel Peace Prize.

Obama got it in 2009 and it didn't really mean anything then either.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Tryhard

[SuperIb]

41 minutes ago, Tryhard said:

Even if you care about that sort of stuff, the Nobel Peace Prize has been worthless for a while.

I know, but I'm still curious if it'll affect anything.

It's like watching a circus. A sad, sad circus.

[dragonlordsd]

On 5/2/2018 at 5:30 PM, indigospace said:

Recently, the leaders of North Korea and South Korea met up and had peace talks and whatnot. In history class, our teacher and some of the other students were talking about how it's the real end of the Korean War, making some of what we've learned about it (i.e, the war "ending" in a stalemate) technically wrong. Here's a link to an article from the Chicago Tribune talking about "things to remember," which voices some doubts about this.

I have my doubts about this whole situation, too, like this whole thing being some kind of secret ploy by NK, but that's a conspiracy theory for another day. Regardless, I'd like to hear what everyone else's thoughts are on this.

There was a video on youtube that broke the whole situation down really clearly.

The whole circus can be understood by asking the simple question: What does Kim want?

The answer, of course, is "to stay in power."

So, then, everything he does is in service of that. Everything. So any time North Korea does something, just ask yourself, "how does this help Kim?" and you can get a clear picture of what they're up to.

Also keep an eye on China, because they're the only ones who can push Kim to do something he doesn't want to do.

[indigoasis]

1 hour ago, dragonlordsd said:

There was a video on youtube that broke the whole situation down really clearly.

The whole circus can be understood by asking the simple question: What does Kim want?

The answer, of course, is "to stay in power."

So, then, everything he does is in service of that. Everything. So any time North Korea does something, just ask yourself, "how does this help Kim?" and you can get a clear picture of what they're up to.

Also keep an eye on China, because they're the only ones who can push Kim to do something he doesn't want to do.

I'll have to keep this in mind then. By the way, what is it that China can do that'll force Kim to do something he doesn't want to do? I understand that they're a larger country with Communism to back them up, but I'm curious.

[dragonlordsd]

21 hours ago, indigospace said:

I'll have to keep this in mind then. By the way, what is it that China can do that'll force Kim to do something he doesn't want to do? I understand that they're a larger country with Communism to back them up, but I'm curious.

Mostly withdraw their support.

North Korea has heavily relied on China for decades, as China is more or less the only country that will openly do business with them. This doesn't sound like a big deal, but it is. Although North Korea is a total dictatorship, they still need a lot of things they can't find within their own borders; resources, technologies, etc. China is more or less their gateway to the outside world.

China, in turn, gets to use North Korea for a few things. First of all, they share a border. This allows China to perform a lot of covert movements without getting caught. They can hide pretty easily by simply stepping across the border.

Additionally, North Korea is more or less China's only ally in all of Asia. Japan is under U.S. protection, South Korea, Thailand, and Taiwan hate them. Not sure about Vietnam and Laos, the war was about 30 years ago now, so they may have put that behind them, but they definitely aren't friendly. The Philippines are US allies, and of course, Burma/Myanmar were at war with them until about 2 years ago.

Given China's recent military movements, having at least one friendly nation is helpful to them.

And of course, North Korea is one of the few remaining major Communist dictatorships in the world, especially now that Cuba is opening back up.

So, that's why China supports them... for now.

There's always the danger that Kim will go to far and become either a liability or, potentially even a threat. At that point, China would simply cut them off.

[Lord Raven]

17 minutes ago, dragonlordsd said:

Additionally, North Korea is more or less China's only ally in all of Asia. Japan is under U.S. protection, South Korea, Thailand, and Taiwan hate them. Not sure about Vietnam and Laos, the war was about 30 years ago now, so they may have put that behind them, but they definitely aren't friendly. The Philippines are US allies, and of course, Burma/Myanmar were at war with them until about 2 years ago.

I'm pretty sure Chinese-Pakistani relations are strong.