Possible Lore Explanation for Nowi's Outfit?

[omegaxis1]

6 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Have you read Nowi's supports in-depth?

I really hope that Ghast does a Support Science about her. He makes such well structured videos about these kinds of things.

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

I really hope that Ghast does a Support Science about her. He makes such well structured videos about these kinds of things.

Explaining it is a double-edged sword IMO.

On one hand, people who'd otherwise be too lazy to read it get one possible interpretation.

On the other hand, being able to read and analyze things is a very important skill to have, and a video won't teach that.

Thus, I'd rather have people read it, tell me what they read, and how they came to that conclusion.  For example, Tharja/Nowi don't outright say that Nowi's parents are dead, but it's very heavily implied.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

Explaining it is a double-edged sword IMO.

On one hand, people who'd otherwise be too lazy to read it get one possible interpretation.

On the other hand, being able to read and analyze things is a very important skill to have, and a video won't teach that.

Thus, I'd rather have people read it, tell me what they read, and how they came to that conclusion.  For example, Tharja/Nowi don't outright say that Nowi's parents are dead, but it's very heavily implied.

You make a fair point there. However, there are those that have a negative reaction on characters like Nowi, Tharja, and such. Those Support Science videos are meant to help others see those characters in a new light. 

Of course, there are some interpretations that even Ghast never explained. For example with Tharja's, I always found that Tharja's abuse towards her family in the future was more of a natural instinctual response. Tharja is used to the dark arts and is always mostly in a dark mood. The ideas of happiness, family, and such, to be with them and experience those kinds of things, its something Tharja wasn't used to. So when it gets overwhelming, her brain basically tries to retreat and work on what she's used to, practicing hexes and dark magic. Sure, it's wrong to use her family as guinea pigs, but she simply doesn't understand how to handle the stress any other way.

[eclipse]

7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

You make a fair point there. However, there are those that have a negative reaction on characters like Nowi, Tharja, and such. Those Support Science videos are meant to help others see those characters in a new light. 

Of course, there are some interpretations that even Ghast never explained. For example with Tharja's, I always found that Tharja's abuse towards her family in the future was more of a natural instinctual response. Tharja is used to the dark arts and is always mostly in a dark mood. The ideas of happiness, family, and such, to be with them and experience those kinds of things, its something Tharja wasn't used to. So when it gets overwhelming, her brain basically tries to retreat and work on what she's used to, practicing hexes and dark magic. Sure, it's wrong to use her family as guinea pigs, but she simply doesn't understand how to handle the stress any other way.

I thought Noire/father's support was something else entirely.

For the most part, we see Tharja through her own eyes and actions.  Noire/her father show what she looks like through the eyes of others.  Even though we know that her moral compass isn't totally skewed, she's depicted as a monster.  Maybe she is, since she hexes people and such.  But her conversation with Noire makes absolutely no sense, if she really did cast all sorts of hexes on her family for giggles.

That's the kind of analysis I'd like to see with someone like Nowi.  And I think Nowi is far easier than Tharja.

Edited May 6, 2018 by eclipse

[Ertrick36]

I didn't expect this thread to make me feel so sad about Nowi...

I mean, her supports with Tharja were fairly sad, and literally the first thing I thought of when Nowi said she was a slave made for entertainment was sex trafficking, but I guess it just goes to show just how many details one would miss out on by not going through all the supports.

58 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

But nope, her acting and dressing like a child is just a weird quirk like any other repeated character gimmick. 

I'd recommend reading her supports with her kid, Nah, if you haven't already.

Heck, before you fully judge her as a character, you really should read all of her supports.

8 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

You make a fair point there. However, there are those that have a negative reaction on characters like Nowi, Tharja, and such. Those Support Science videos are meant to help others see those characters in a new light. 

Then that's why you'd watch that sort of stuff after reading the supports.  It's always better to see stuff for yourself first, and then look at analyses from other sources after.  It's a synthesis of ideas that may give way to even more valuable opinions.  And if nothing else, one could at least say their opinion isn't just the opinion of someone else.

[Jingle Jangle]

4 hours ago, Soleater said:

Oh yeah, you're right - for some reason I remember her saying that she said that in Tharja's support?  And after rereading some stuff, I guess it's likely she never knew any other Manaketes?  (Especially her support with Henry when he makes the illusion)

Yet in a event tile she said,

Quote

"I made a new dragon friend! His name was... Banta? ...Banter?! Wait, what was it...?

I'm unsure is this is a reference like many things in Awakening are, or that in one point she actually met Bantu at one point.

[Ottservia]

2 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Yet in a event tile she said,

I'm unsure is this is a reference like many things in Awakening are, or that in one point she actually met Bantu at one point.

it's a reference to an old fire(?) manakete from shadow dragon named Bantu. I don't know all the details as I have yet to finish SD but I believe he was Tiki's guardian while she slept in that ice cave for those thousand years. 

[Jingle Jangle]

Just now, Otts486 said:

it's a reference to an old fire(?) manakete from shadow dragon named Bantu. I don't know all the details as I have yet to finish SD but I believe he was Tiki's guardian while she slept in that ice cave for those thousand years. 

It is supposed to be Bantu, Also in the Summer Scrammble dlc with Sully. 

Quote

Nowi
Oh man, that would be amazing! We could collect shells, build sand castles... Oh, and eat fruit! Lots of delicious, tropical fruit! Hee hee! I can't wait! Actually, scratch the vacation—we should just come live here instead!

Sully
Live here, eh? Lemme ask you something, Nowi...

Nowi
Ooh, lemme guess! You wanna know why the ocean gets angry sometimes, right?! Well, it turns out there's an old manakete king sleeping far beneath the sea. Whenever he snores, it causes big waves to come crashing into the sand! Isn't that crazy?

Sully
Uh, yeah...sure is. Who told you that story, anyway?

Nowi
Um...gosh. Who told me that one...? Ohh, I remember! It was a wise old manakete I once knew. He was a friend from a long, long time ago.

Nowi did meet Bantu years before the game started.

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I thought Noire/father's support was something else entirely.

For the most part, we see Tharja through her own eyes and actions.  Noire/her father show what she looks like through the eyes of others.  Even though we know that her moral compass isn't totally skewed, she's depicted as a monster.  Maybe she is, since she hexes people and such.  But her conversation with Noire makes absolutely no sense, if she really did cast all sorts of hexes on her family for giggles.

That's the kind of analysis I'd like to see with someone like Nowi.  And I think Nowi is far easier than Tharja.

Based on how the conversations goes and what Tharja theorizes, her future self did love her family. In fact, in the Future Past, in one father conversation with Noire (I forget which), Tharja losing her husband made her very vengeful and seek to avenge him. But Tharja ultimately us more used to being alone and performing hexes and experimenting on these kinds of things. However, with the kind of happiness she likely got from her family, it's "unnatural" to her. She cannot understand it or is too unused to it. So she panics and regresses to her other more comfortable state. 

That's how I interpret it as anyways.

Nowi could be easier to analyze. There are definitely signs that she at least knows some things. 

However, it is confirmed by Nah in the Harvest Festival with Morgan that dragons mature the same as they age, very slowly. 

6 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Then that's why you'd watch that sort of stuff after reading the supports.  It's always better to see stuff for yourself first, and then look at analyses from other sources after.  It's a synthesis of ideas that may give way to even more valuable opinions.  And if nothing else, one could at least say their opinion isn't just the opinion of someone else.

If a person doesn't like a person and really cannot understand them, even reading their supports won't help if they are too closed minded. But if your perspective can at least shift, you can give them a chance and be more open minded. 

Just now, Jingle Jangle said:

Nowi did meet Bantu years before the game started.

Yet the Event tile makes it seem like she met Bantu only recently.

[Ottservia]

3 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

It is supposed to be Bantu, Also in the Summer Scrammble dlc with Sully. 

Nowi did meet Bantu years before the game started.

oh wait I'm sorry I misread your initial post.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Otts486

[Jingle Jangle]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yet the Event tile makes it seem like she met Bantu only recently.

 

Quote

Sully
Uh, yeah...sure is. Who told you that story, anyway?

Nowi
Um...gosh. Who told me that one...? Ohh, I remember! It was a wise old manakete I once knew. He was a friend from a long, long time ago.

That part doesn't sound very recent.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Jingle Jangle said:

That part doesn't sound very recent.

I know. That's what I'm wondering. It's a contradiction. The Event tile makes it sound recent, but this makes it sound like it was a long time ago.

[Soleater]

18 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

It is supposed to be Bantu, Also in the Summer Scrammble dlc with Sully. 

Nowi did meet Bantu years before the game started.

 

13 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

 

That part doesn't sound very recent.

 

12 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I know. That's what I'm wondering. It's a contradiction. The Event tile makes it sound recent, but this makes it sound like it was a long time ago.

Maybe it was a different dragon all together?  Not Bantu, but someone else?  Yarne makes comments to Nah that there are other Manaketes around, even if they are very rare.

Yarne: Yeah, until you turn into a dragon! Then you're nine times my size! You know what? This is dumb. We're not the same at all! Plus, there are other manaketes out there if something happens to you! So quit talking like you have any idea what it's like!

[Zapp Branniglenn]

50 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Have you read Nowi's supports in-depth?

How about you point at what I'm looking for and save us both time?

40 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Explaining it is a double-edged sword IMO.

On one hand, people who'd otherwise be too lazy to read it get one possible interpretation.

On the other hand, being able to read and analyze things is a very important skill to have, and a video won't teach that.

Thus, I'd rather have people read it, tell me what they read, and how they came to that conclusion.  For example, Tharja/Nowi don't outright say that Nowi's parents are dead, but it's very heavily implied.

...ah, nevermind then. You want me to build an argument for you. I'm not opposed to a simple thought experiment here and there, but I've also got things to do. And already contributed to the topic. If you don't like what I've said, put some effort into explaining why eh?

29 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

I'd recommend reading her supports with her kid, Nah, if you haven't already.

Heck, before you fully judge her as a character, you really should read all of her supports.

Nah learns to take a break here and there for the sake of her health. Okay, but it's not relevant to the topic. What point are you trying to make?

[Soleater]

1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

How about you point at what I'm looking for and save us both time?

...ah, nevermind then. You want me to build an argument for you. I'm not opposed to a simple thought experiment here and there, but I've also got things to do. And already contributed to the topic. If you don't like what I've said, put some effort into explaining why eh?

Nah learns to take a break here and there for the sake of her health. Okay, but it's not relevant to the topic. What point are you trying to make?

On the topic of Nah, it was actually Nowi who convinced her to take a break:

Nah: Oh, darn. It's not here, either. Where can it be?
Nowi: ......
Nah: Oh, hello, Mother. Have you seen my dragonstone anywhere?
Nowi: D-dragonstone? Er, NO! Not a clue! I have no idea. Nope. None whatsoever.
Nah: ...You're a terrible liar.
Nowi: B-but I'm NOT lying! Ha ha. Ah ha...ha?
Nah: *Sigh* All right, Mother. What did you do with it?
Nowi: Nothing! ...I, er, just decided to look after it, is all.
Nah: Give it back! Honestly, how am I supposed to train without it?
Nowi: Oh, training, schmaining! Let's have some fun instead.
Nah: I don't want to have fun. I want to get stronger. If I don't, I'll never help win this war or earn my place in this army.
Nowi: Er...
Nah: If I'm not helping people, then what's the point of even having me around? No real human wants to be friends with a half person who can't look after herself.
Nowi: Is that what you're worried about? But I'm here—and I'm a manakete! You don't have to prove something to the humans to be here with us. Manakete, taguel, human—everyone in this army is equal and in it together!
Nah: You truly believe that?
Nowi: I do. And more importantly, you're still very young for a manakete. You can't overuse the dragonstone. It's far too powerful for one of your age.
Nah: It's true that after a day of training I tend to feel terribly weak...
Nowi: I'm going to give it back to you, but I don't want to see you hurting yourself. You must promise me to only use it during actual battle. Do you hear me?
Nah: All right, Mother. I swear to use it more responsibly from now on.

This is basically the whole B support, in where Nowi acts mature because she's concerned about the well being of her daughter - if Nowi knows at least one thing about Manaketes, it's how dangerous their dragon form is to their mental health.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Soleater

[eclipse]

41 minutes ago, Soleater said:

Maybe it was a different dragon all together?  Not Bantu, but someone else?  Yarne makes comments to Nah that there are other Manaketes around, even if they are very rare.

Yarne: Yeah, until you turn into a dragon! Then you're nine times my size! You know what? This is dumb. We're not the same at all! Plus, there are other manaketes out there if something happens to you! So quit talking like you have any idea what it's like!

She also mentions him in a barracks conversation.  Given that she was kidnapped really young (relatively speaking), she might have met him before she went poof.

37 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

How about you point at what I'm looking for and save us both time?

...ah, nevermind then. You want me to build an argument for you. I'm not opposed to a simple thought experiment here and there, but I've also got things to do. And already contributed to the topic. If you don't like what I've said, put some effort into explaining why eh?

No, you didn't contribute.

When you enter a topic regarding explanations, the absolute least you can do is read about the subject you're going to comment on.  I may not like FE4, but I can explain what I didn't like, and why - that's contribution.  Shooting from the hip isn't - it's ignorant at best and trolling at worst, and the latter is warnable.

In other words, if you can't be bothered to read about the person in question and think about why things happened the way they did, don't post in a topics like these.

[Soleater]

2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

She also mentions him in a barracks conversation.  Given that she was kidnapped really young (relatively speaking), she might have met him before she went poof.

"I made a new dragon friend! His name was...Banta?...Banter?! Wait, what was it...?"  Honestly to me this sounds like she made a friend fairly recently, like in the past few days at least (but then again, the fact she's having a hard time remembering his name may say otherwise...)

I wonder what a dragon like Bantu would think about Nowi's outfit anyway...He seems pretty protective, so I think he would have some words for her ^^"

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, Soleater said:

"I made a new dragon friend! His name was...Banta?...Banter?! Wait, what was it...?"  Honestly to me this sounds like she made a friend fairly recently, like in the past few days at least (but then again, the fact she's having a hard time remembering his name may say otherwise...)

I wonder what a dragon like Bantu would think about Nowi's outfit anyway...He seems pretty protective, so I think he would have some words for her ^^"

Bantu would probably shake his head, but I doubt he could get her to change clothes!

I read that barracks convo as her reminiscing about her past, somewhat like a spoken journal.

[Soleater]

7 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Bantu would probably shake his head, but I doubt he could get her to change clothes!

I read that barracks convo as her reminiscing about her past, somewhat like a spoken journal.

Not even Libra could get her to repent for those sinful garments (funnily enough, I tend to ship Nowi with Libra, so...)

But yeah that actually does seem pretty in character for her, as she has a habit of saying whatever's on her mind, so long as it doesn't bring down the mood too much.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

26 minutes ago, eclipse said:

No, you didn't contribute.

When you enter a topic regarding explanations, the absolute least you can do is read about the subject you're going to comment on.  I may not like FE4, but I can explain what I didn't like, and why - that's contribution.  Shooting from the hip isn't - it's ignorant at best and trolling at worst, and the latter is warnable.

In other words, if you can't be bothered to read about the person in question and think about why things happened the way they did, don't post in a topics like these.

Again with the assumption I didn't read. I did read, back in 2013. If there was anything here to bring up, it would have left an impression enough for me to remember. Do you honestly think everybody up to and including the OP has read all of Nowi's supports within minutes of posting in this thread? Should they have? You're asking me to read it all again for...what, anyway? If you think I missed something, say it. Stop calling me ignorant, you don't know what I do or don't know. Are you really this upset at something I said? Because this is spam. You have said nothing that relates to my post and I refuse to respond again to a post like this one. If I see this again in my notifications, I'll report it. One mod to another, that's my warning.

[eclipse]

13 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Again with the assumption I didn't read. I did read, back in 2013. If there was anything here to bring up, it would have left an impression enough for me to remember. Do you honestly think everybody up to and including the OP has read all of Nowi's supports within minutes of posting in this thread? Should they have? You're asking me to read it all again for...what, anyway? If you think I missed something, say it. Stop calling me ignorant, you don't know what I do or don't know. Are you really this upset at something I said? Because this is spam. You have said nothing that relates to my post and I refuse to respond again to a post like this one. If I see this again in my notifications, I'll report it. One mod to another, that's my warning.

You're not a mod.  Furthermore, you dropped an assertion, with no logic as to how you even got there.  When you have a stance, you need to say how you got there, even if it's "so and so's support chain".

So tell me why you shouldn't be warned for trolling.

[Ertrick36]

@Glennstavos I was just making a recommendation, and I think my assumption that you hadn't read the supports were perfectly reasonable since the opinions you offered were mostly surface observations...  If there's no further independent analysis you want to do yourself, then I'll just leave it at that.

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

If a person doesn't like a person and really cannot understand them, even reading their supports won't help if they are too closed minded. But if your perspective can at least shift, you can give them a chance and be more open minded.

But if you start off by looking at the critiques and analyses of others, you won't have a foundation to form your own opinion; even if you can form your own opinion, your foundation will be crippled with a bias that isn't entirely your own.

I don't care if someone has the same appreciation as I do.  I'd rather they didn't even bother reading the supports because of closed-mindedness than if they just borrowed their opinion from someone else.  Two differing opinions are worth twice as much as thousands of people quoting Ghast's support science, I'd say.  Unless of course you're talking an outright contradiction of facts, in which case such an opinion is only detrimental.  But that's neither here nor there.

I'm all for folks delving into analyses and critiques... but only after they've delved into the subject material themselves.  I also think that there's no helping some people; some are just stubbornly closed-minded, and no amount of forcing facts, information, and other opinions upon them will change that.  So when I say people should read into it themselves, it's also a matter of determining if it's even worth it to try to discuss things with them.

I only want people to offer more comprehensive opinions, not lecture them about why Nowi's actually a better character than most make her out to be.

[Ae†her]

3 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

I didn't expect this thread to make me feel so sad about Nowi...

I mean, her supports with Tharja were fairly sad, and literally the first thing I thought of when Nowi said she was a slave made for entertainment was sex trafficking, but I guess it just goes to show just how many details one would miss out on by not going through all the supports.

What makes the idea of it even worse is that it's such a big and tragic thing that if it truly is there it's never addressed. Makes it kind of creepy in a way too. Thought I doubt IS wanted to imply sex trafficking, that would kind of be sick.

4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

From personal experience. If you are used to wearing a certain type of outfit for a long time, wearing something that's different is VERY uncomfortable. Loose fitting outfits that cover more might SEEM like it should be more comfortable, but if Nowi isn't used to wearing those kinds of clothes, then she won't wear them.

Also, this entire thread is on the speculation on what Nowi's gone through and why she dresses like that. So I don't get why calling this speculation is any justification on your argument.

I mean I guess that could be possible, but that brings up the question again of why Nowi's wearing that specific costume, and if it's because her former slavers made her wear it (which is something that's been speculated repeatedly on this thread), then it doesn't make sense why she would keep it on. It doesn't really matter if she keeps it on (not to mention the fact that no one changes clothes at all either throughout the entire game) the question is more of on why she's wearing that specific costume.

[Emperor Hardin]

3 hours ago, Soleater said:

Maybe it was a different dragon all together?  Not Bantu, but someone else?  Yarne makes comments to Nah that there are other Manaketes around, even if they are very rare.

Yarne: Yeah, until you turn into a dragon! Then you're nine times my size! You know what? This is dumb. We're not the same at all! Plus, there are other manaketes out there if something happens to you! So quit talking like you have any idea what it's like!

The Art of Awakening states Nowi was the first Manakete seen for thousands of years other then Tiki and that Manaketes are mythical entities.

Yarne is referring to Tiki and Nowi there.

The taguel shouldn't be there period.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Emperor Hardin

[Soleater]

10 hours ago, Ae†her said:

What makes the idea of it even worse is that it's such a big and tragic thing that if it truly is there it's never addressed. Makes it kind of creepy in a way too. Thought I doubt IS wanted to imply sex trafficking, that would kind of be sick.

I mean I guess that could be possible, but that brings up the question again of why Nowi's wearing that specific costume, and if it's because her former slavers made her wear it (which is something that's been speculated repeatedly on this thread), then it doesn't make sense why she would keep it on. It doesn't really matter if she keeps it on (not to mention the fact that no one changes clothes at all either throughout the entire game) the question is more of on why she's wearing that specific costume.

I actually think it's better that it's not directly addressed because not only would that kill Awakening's more hopeful tone (Nowi: "Oh yeah, I used to be a sex slave!), but the fact that the implication is there and never fully mentioned is actually kinda scarier...

As for why she would keep it on, it's probably more that she just got used to outfits like that (since she was kidnapped near birth), and whoever sold her to the Grimleal made her wear that for whatever reason.

 

10 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

The Art of Awakening states Nowi was the first Manakete seen for thousands of years other then Tiki and that Manaketes are mythical entities.

Yarne is referring to Tiki and Nowi there.

The taguel shouldn't be there period.

I suppose that makes Chrom's and the Avatar's surprise at Nowi make sense.

Avatar: What in blazes?! The girl is a dragon!
Chrom: By the gods, she's a manakete...I never thought I'd see one.

And I can see why Yarne would consider any other Manakete's as manakete enough, but that still doesn't explain Bantu (since a big focus on Nowi's support with Henry is wanting more dragon friends); it's likely then that she met Bantu a long time ago then.

I actually think the inclusion of Taguel isn't so bad - yeah it didn't do anything for the story, but them being there doesn't hurt the story already there; they're there, it's just not their story.