Came back to FE13

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Of course everyone is wondering now what's the Point of this topic. No one cares if someone replays a videogame. lol
However in this case I'm talking about a game I never expected to come back. I'm one of the biggest FE13 dislikers in this forum who let out harsh criticism towards this game. 
The reasons are simple: FE13 is a very unbalanced game Overall whose gameplay is reduced to an absolute minimum. There are no other mission objectives aside of rout and defeat boss. There are a couple of pseudo-defense maps, but that's it. Storywise it's bad, but it applies to all the modern games. Seriously it's better than Fates's since I really like part 1 mainly because of Gangrel's characterization. 
It applied tome: first run was nice but it bored me in my second run

The main reason why I suddenly decided to replay this game was that FE13 still belongs to FE and I still like this series (despite losing interest in the former years). And maybe the fun comes back if I play a game which I haven't touched for years.
I'm playing on hard / classic which is the fairest mode in terms of challenge for me. My self-made challenge is that I won't reset when someone dies (it's called Ironman-run?). 
Almost the first half of the game is done (Chapter 12) and seriously I have much more trouble than I expected. I lots tons of units (Sully, Virion, Stahl, Donnel, Nowi, Gregor, Ricken, Maribelle, Tharja, Libra) because of own mistakes, unlucky crits by the enemy and ambush spawning from places I did not expect. It means I will miss some kids and extra items, but it's not too bad, if I can beat this game with my current team.

I have to say this run makes fun so far. It's a challenging game. Some chapters - although they're rout missions - must be played as a defend chapter. It's often the case that my allies kill too many enemies in enemy phase and so can get attacked more. As broken pair-up is in this game as it is needed for surviving. 
Ambush spawning is one of the most unnecessary mechanics in FE and is only fake-difficulty for me because it slows down the game a lot. Also the enemy's AI confuses me. I don't quite understand their behavior. Sometimes a few of a pack moves but not all (like in Chapter 11 + 12). I guess it matters if I cross a certain line, but it's really confusing for me.
The inventory is super simple and I like that feature that items and weapons by fallen units aren't gone for good.

I don't know if I will take back my former criticism, but so far, FE13 is still an enjoyable game ---- even if I still prefer some other FE games.

[Michelaar]

That's fair. I personally enjoy this game a lot, I think it's just a very chill game for me to relax to when i'm on Vacation, or just when I don't have anything else to do. Of course there are things I don't like about it, but overall, it's an enjoyable game.

[Junkhead]

I used to play FE years before Awakening even came out, but that never stopped me from enjoying it. It's still among my favourite FE games, even going as far as to have it as my favourite for that year or two. Assuming you don't grindfest everything in a single run, it actually has a decent bit of replay value (reclassing and variety of skills).

I haven't been playing it, but whenever I do, I pretty much always "challenge" myself by not using Pair Up. I say "challenge", because it's pretty much become my staple way of playing the game. Things aren't trivialised, and you can actually see a full unit's worth when they're not backed by silly bonuses. This is in the gameplay aspect, that is. I actually also happened to really enjoy the characters and the casual settings they make of the game (something supports always added, since FE6 & 7). They're cute and colourful. As to the story, I don't know what people complain about. I'm not sure what they expect. It just seems like standard FE, which isn't bad at all.

I'd also like to say that Lunatic is very challenging, assuming you don't do that thing where you heavily train up your Avatar just so he/she can solo with Nosferatu.

 

EDIT:

The only thing I disliked about this game is the sort of culture is brought into the series. This is in regards to characters like Tharja & Nowi having questionable outfits, and the series as a whole started being a little more liberal in terms of this kind of fanservice.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Oz ♠

[Ottservia]

6 hours ago, Oz ♠ said:

The only thing I disliked about this game is the sort of culture is brought into the series. This is in regards to characters like Tharja & Nowi having questionable outfits, and the series as a whole started being a little more liberal in terms of this kind of fanservice.

yeah as a whole I feel waifu culture is for the most part harmless and awakening isn't all too bad with it in retrospect. However what it did do is open the flood gates for more, I wanna say, "modern" anime trends which involve wish-fullfilment harem esque stories/characters that are just edgy because it doesn't wanna look like a random-ass harem show ripped straight from A1 or some popular light novel titles. Honestly I'm fine with fanservice but as it is now fire emblem can't seem to be trusted to do it properly.

[Michelaar]

3 minutes ago, Otts486 said:

yeah as a whole I feel waifu culture is for the most part harmless and awakening isn't all too bad with it in retrospect. However what it did do is open the flood gates for more, I wanna say, "modern" anime trends which involve wish-fullfilment harem esque stories/characters that are just edgy because it doesn't wanna look like a random-ass harem show ripped straight from A1 or some popular light novel titles. Honestly I'm fine with fanservice but as it is now fire emblem can't seem to be trusted to do it properly.

Edgy people weren't new to Awakening though. Have you seen people like Navarre, Shiva and Raven?

[Ottservia]

10 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

Edgy people weren't new to Awakening though. Have you seen people like Navarre, Shiva and Raven?

I realize that and I should clarify that awakening is probably my second favorite FE and I believe it's cast is among the series' best. I was mostly referring to fates with that line cause fates tries so hard to be dark and edgy with it's story and/or characters to try and cover up the fact that most of it just is poorly written light novel trash with so many "waifus" to fill your harem with. I mean I love conquest to death but I won't deny the fact that fates went waaay too far with the fanservice and wish-fulfillment.

To be a little more on topic, I really do love awakening as it has some of my favorite characters in the series and the gameplay while flawed is still enjoyable. I hoestly love the horribly unbalanced gameplay cause it's just a lot of fun to just throw a roided up morgan in the middle of a whole horde of enemies and just watch them drop like flies. I dunno I just find it somewhat entertaining.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Otts486

[Johnnie]

I still like the game. It gives you the freedom to come up with different challenges and even combine them without making the game unwinnable.

 

Doing a run right now to see if I can unlock every Paralogue and recruit every character without grinding. You can, and it actually makes the game even easier since your characters slightly over levelled by the time you reach the halfway point. My next run will be a no pair up Ironman, because that's the best.

[ChickenWings]

Me too, i don't know why....

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

No pair-up is surely the fairest and most fun challenge.

Pairing up isn't even good for certain chapters like in Tiki's paralogue where eight units are needed to build a rhomb formation around Tiki.
I did not because I thought I could take all the fliers out in PP with Galeforce Sumia and Lucina. It worked well... till ambush spawn screwed me over. Not only Tiki didn't make, but also Lissa and Gaius died. I better shouldn't have brought them to this chapter because Lissa was massively speedscrewed (10 speed after promotion to cleric war) and Gaius not trained at all.
So the massacre continued.
That also means all my classic healers are gone for good. Only falcon knights can somewhat heal. But they have access to rescuse already what is more than enough for me already.
I'm optimistic that I won't have anymore deaths. Some units like Chromia, Lucina or Vaike are so good that they can handle most enemies on their own. And I still will get a few kids.
 

Quote

The only thing I disliked about this game is the sort of culture is brought into the series. This is in regards to characters like Tharja & Nowi having questionable outfits, and the series as a whole started being a little more liberal in terms of this kind of fanservice.

Seconded
I don't mind the marriage system and the content of the support conversations, but I find a few outfits too excentric and also unfitting like Nowi's.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Hecatia Lapislazuli

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Pair-up is basically a necessity for anything above Hard, though, unless you're into heavy reliance on RNG. Those modes are mathed very specifically so that a couple of key partners' stat bonuses help certain characters get off the ground against their WTA and/or neutral match-up.

Pair-up still works well for Tiki on any difficulty other than Lunatic+ (because of Pass), though it'll still work well if you have a lot of Galeforce (or use any of the 1-turn or 2-turn strats). IIRC, there's just enough deployment slots where, if Tiki is Rescued up against the top of the map, you can just form a V of units two tiles out from her that will block all attackers from moving in, forcing them to engage your units. Since the units will be under heavy focus fire, it's preferred that they have partners for the extra safety the stats and Dual Guards provide.

As for under-leveled units there, they're largely safe as long as they don't body block the enemy (completely cut them off from Tiki or form a wall between them and Tiki longer than three units high/wide), since the AI is programmed to ignore your units to gun for Tiki.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I finished my ironman-run.
It was fun, but it also showed once more how unbalanced this game really is.
Not only the lacking of pair-up on enemies side is a huge issue, but also how broken the kids are.
For example base Morgan had already more HP and defense (idr if also other stats) than my 25 level higher avatar. It was ridiculous. I did one grinding against maxed leveled enemies with just a hand full of second gen units who just hit their promotion with their relatives. I could beat the 15-20 level higher enemies without much trouble.
This game became cheesecake when the kids appeared. Lucina could basically solo the entire game. So it didn't matter at all that I lost almost 20 gen one units. First generation became non important at the end.

FE13 is also a potential easy game to lowturn. Second least chapter could be done in one turn.


As for Tiki's map I needed about two or three more times galeforce to keep her safe (only had two).
I know that the enemies don't attack the allies, when they have the opportunity to attack Tiki. However it's the target to prevent it, so weak units will be in danger if all the enemies can't be  killed in PP. 

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Most of the second gen is significantly less powerful when on higher difficulties, to the point where many aren't even worth consideration for recruitment or use.

Considering how much work the guys who did the Lunatic and Lunatic+ LTCs had to put in to make it work, I'd say you're grossly overstating the ease of this game.

No, it's not just if they have the opportunity to attack Tiki. They will just keep moving toward her regardless of if she's in range or not (Note that if they did attack player units when not in range of Tiki, nothing would ever get remotely close to her, making the map absurdly easy. One strong pair in each of the east, west and south would just attract everything to die on EP). The sole exception to this movement is if they're blocked by a wall of units 3 units in size or larger. Then they will try to go through it rather than around it. Basically, don't try to use weak units to wall with and they'll be completely ignored. You absolutely do not have to kill everything on PP.

And again, if you're not on Lunatic+, Galeforce isn't necessary to keep Tiki safe. Just Rescue her to the top of the map and block her off with a V of strong pairs. As long as everyone else is checkboarded around her, the 1~2-range units will be forced to engage player units. Five pairs is all it takes to completely deprive the enemy of victory.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Maybe it was an misunderstanding by myself.

The enemies attacked (only) attack you when their way to Tiki is blocked (=no chance to attack her from 1-2 range) by a rhomb formation. 

 

I'm aware that the kids on higher difficulties are weaker considering the enemies's stats.

 

Anyways I have started replaying FE13 with the same mode (hard / classic), but this time with the target of having less losses and different pairings. 

Well, you could give me pairing suggestions aside of Donnel x MU and Chrom x Sumia.