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Fire emblem and "modern" anime trends


Ottservia
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What I mean by more "modern" anime trends is stuff like mary-sue esque protagonists,  waifu culture, Otaku pandering, fanservice,etc. pretty much all the stuff you would expect to see if you watched some anime from the most recent seasonal chart. I see people complaining about this sort of stuff in fire emblem all the time and have been dwelling on this a while. Now I can't really fully articulate how I truly feel on this subject(I might edit this post later when I can) but I'd like to see what you guys thought of the subject.

 

Edit: I was able to say what I wanted say here in a later post.

Edited by Otts486
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I don't mind a lot of it, though I wish the Camilla cutscene wasn't there and that thong armour and random female armour gaps didn't exist. Otherwise, the fanservice has always been in FE, and you get lots of people arguing X character is a Mary Sue because X reasons, anyway.

Edited by Cute Chao
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I don't actually give a damn. In general, the "too anime" complaint bothers me because it's just a quick way to say that something isn't as good as it used to be, when referring to Japanese media and games. Like, what actually constitutes as "too anime" in the first place? Just because something is "too anime" doesn't automatically mean it's bad.

That said, FE really needs to ditch avatars.

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"Too anime" is definitely not an accurate term, but I understand it. Anime is pretty diverse after all, and FE has always been anime inspired. Fates was way too shonen for my liking however, and that direction does not fit FE imo. Hopefully they realized that and go back to more mature writing in FE16.

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19 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

I don't mind a lot of it, though I wish the Camilla cutscene wasn't there and that thong armour and random female armour gaps didn't exist. Otherwise, the fanservice has always been in FE, and you get lots of people arguing X character is a Mary Sue because X reasons, anyway.

As kitty Powers herself stated:

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it doesn't bother me at all. 

i don't know what waifu means though lol so maybe it would teehee. 

I'm not sure why people hate avatars too. but to be fair my only FE has been the last 3 entries  so  that's 2 avatars to none for me. 

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It makes me cringe, through Anime i have found some of my favorite stories of all time, like Barakamon, March Comes in like a Lion, Hanasaku Iroha, Kyousougiga, Mobile Suit Gundam, Cardcaptor Sakura and more. So when people say modern Fire Emblem is "too anime" it bothers me a lot.

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5 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

i don't know what waifu means though lol so maybe it would teehee. 
 

You are too pure for the internet :3

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7 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

i don't know what waifu means though lol so maybe it would teehee. 

I don't know how you've gone so long without knowing what a waifu is, but okay.

A waifu or hasubando is basically a fictional crush, typically from a manga, anime, or video game.

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The problem with Fates wasn't really anime or shounen anime/manga tropes it was the fact that it was a fourteen year old's jerk off power fantasy where you are the most special little snowflake in the world and everyone who's good loves you and the people who don't are assholes who have to die. The problem with avatars in FE is that IS doesn't seem to want to or know how to write a story where they don't pander to the player's OC and constantly try to make them feel good even when it is to the complete detriment of the story. Hell that even leaks into Echoes where Alm, the character the target demographic will most relate to as a teenage male is placed on a special pedestal and treated like the second coming by everyone who isn't evil or got beat with the stupid stick (Celica).

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Too anime would not be problem imho - unlike too fanservice. The two are not the same, and are independent of one another (at least, they should be). Now, Camilla wouldn't bother me that much if she would wear less fanservice armour. Her personality is kinda ok. Also, a bit fanservice is ok as well. Too much of it what makes most modern anime, and modern FE bad. As for the avatars, I don't think they are a problem. I kinda like it, since you can feel more like you are part of the story, and not just an observer. Of course, it's my opinion, not everyone have to agree with it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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38 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

It definitely became a tad to much in Fates but isn't the bigger focus on those features somewhat inevitable? Fire Emblem has always been influenced by anime and if anime goes into that direction it seems natural that Fire Emblem follows suit. 

32 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I don't actually give a damn. In general, the "too anime" complaint bothers me because it's just a quick way to say that something isn't as good as it used to be, when referring to Japanese media and games. Like, what actually constitutes as "too anime" in the first place? Just because something is "too anime" doesn't automatically mean it's bad.

That said, FE really needs to ditch avatars.

agree with both of you here. I mean for the most part I find this stuff to be mostly harmless. The way I see it is that if it's executed properly then fine I don't really care. I mean I'm getting a good product in the end anyway so yeah. The only time I find it bad is when you know it is bad. Like I don't mind waifu culture at all but that skinship minigame is where I undoubtedly have to draw the line cause that minigame is just...yeah. The "too anime" argument bothers me as well. Though I think when people use that argument they are referring to their distaste of stuff such as waifu culture and excessive fanservice. I also hate it when people use the "anime tropes" argument to write off a character as poorly written just because they belongto an "anime trope". like that's not how you define a poorly written character, A poorly written character in the most basic sense, to me anyway, is a horribly inconsistent character that has no depth or intrigue beyond the surface level trope/archetype/personality. 

 

Now to say what I wanted to in my original post but couldn't think of at the time. I've stated numerous times what my opinion on fanservice is and I'm going to say it again here. I don't mind fanservice so long as it's done in a way that makes sense within the context of the narrative or characters. Charlotte is fine because she has an understandable reason to dress the way that she does. Beach DLCs/banners are fine because if you go to the beach then you're going wear a skimpy bathing suit that's just how life works. What I don't like(this applies to waifu culture as well) is when you have characters like camilla or tharja that are just there to fulfill some sort of "waifu" or "fanservice" quota. Like the only reason as to why they exist is to just pander to the lowest common denominator. I'm not saying those kinds of characters are inherently bad because if they're made to be good characters then that's fine. Camilla and Tharja aren't terrible characters to be fair but they could be sooo much better characters if the writers actually cared about making a good character rather than just pandering to the otaku demographic. The reason why I shake my head at popularity polls so much is because those two so high. Now the fact that they're high up on those lists isn't what bothers me it's the reason why and I hate that IS knows that reason as well. 

59 minutes ago, Book Bro said:

"Too anime" is definitely not an accurate term, but I understand it. Anime is pretty diverse after all, and FE has always been anime inspired. Fates was way too shonen for my liking however, and that direction does not fit FE imo. Hopefully they realized that and go back to more mature writing in FE16.

I wouldn't say fates is shounen(well actually most fire emblem games are pretty much battle shounen stories). Fates' writing is more long along the lines of your generic light novel isekai without the isekai part. It's annoying.

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6 minutes ago, Otts486 said:

Fates' writing is more long along the lines of your generic light novel isekai without the isekai part. It's annoying.

Ok, no, Fates isn't that bad. At least Fates has some actually good characters. 

But like, the thing with Fates is, the writing is shit not because of "anime tropes" or anything of that sort, but because the writers were incompetent. They hired a well known manga writer to write their story, then they basically rewrote the whole thing so what was even the point?

 

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Eh, I just recognize a lot of the tropes I dislike in FE13/14 more in modern anime than in the older anime so that's why I say it like that.

You know stuff like the sibling romance, a 1000 year old loli, isekai twist.

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What "too anime" means to me is an over reliance on shallow character archtypes, fanservice and cliches. Not all tropes are bad and you're inevitably going to see some in games with casts so larges, but I appreciate more nuanced story telling and characters. There have always been "waifus" but it seems that Fateswakening revived this phenomena anew, with self-insert protagonists and characters who are (sometimes) just designed to appeal to a certain crowd rather than having a reason to exist in the world. I guess what I want to see is a game with writing that respects itself. SoV was mostly a step in the right direction but Fates was so absorbed in wanking the player off, it descends into practical self-parody.

1 hour ago, Modamy said:

The problem with Fates wasn't really anime or shounen anime/manga tropes it was the fact that it was a fourteen year old's jerk off power fantasy where you are the most special little snowflake in the world and everyone who's good loves you and the people who don't are assholes who have to die. The problem with avatars in FE is that IS doesn't seem to want to or know how to write a story where they don't pander to the player's OC and constantly try to make them feel good even when it is to the complete detriment of the story. Hell that even leaks into Echoes where Alm, the character the target demographic will most relate to as a teenage male is placed on a special pedestal and treated like the second coming by everyone who isn't evil or got beat with the stupid stick (Celica).

All of this.

41 minutes ago, Otts486 said:

I wouldn't say fates is shounen(well actually most fire emblem games are pretty much battle shounen stories). Fates' writing is more long along the lines of your generic light novel isekai without the isekai part. It's annoying.

Heh, that's surprisingly apt. Birthright is literally this.

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47 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Ok, no, Fates isn't that bad. At least Fates has some actually good characters. 

But like, the thing with Fates is, the writing is shit not because of "anime tropes" or anything of that sort, but because the writers were incompetent. They hired a well known manga writer to write their story, then they basically rewrote the whole thing so what was even the point?

 

ok that's fair but it's main story has pretty much all the trappings of one.

Edited by Otts486
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8 minutes ago, Otts486 said:

ok that's fair but it's main story has pretty much all the trappings of one.

Well, Conquest, at least, is it's own thing. Not that it excuses it's shortcomings.

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Comparing Fates with Isekai... I wonder how I didn't think it before... It makes a lot of the sense in the hindsight xD

Freaking Isekais... there are some many of them and just a few are worth reading/watching.

Fates was originally written as some kind of tragedy drama with the two routes and the sibling stuff... and ended up being a generic isekai without the "sekai" part.

Edited by Troykv
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