I'm a bit worried of the direction this game is taking...

[Lewyn]

3 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

...Don't forget about V-Day Hector...

Ah of course!   Also LA Lyn is pretty monstrous with owl tome as well.  LA Eliwood can be a great mixed tank as well. 

Glass canons need to be brave/fire sweep users, galeforce sweepers, etc.  It is really hard for glass cannon player phase units to make much of an impact.  Distant counter is just well deadly.  Powerful mage, but hey can you one shot that armor unit?  If not you are dead.  Wait why did Reinhardt and Brave Lyn make such an impact?  Cause they have horse buffs, 3 movement. Reinhardt also has brave tome, so the opposing unit has to survive 2 of those hits one of them being a moonbow proc to retaliate and kill him.  Brave Lyn can go firesweep and whatever she chooses she can have sacae blessing so she can freely attack DC units.  

Really it is a tanky paradise, with sacred seals and the other skills it is much easier for units to survive.  Also when a glass canon fails to kill its target, the results afterwards are usually a quick death.

[Ice Dragon]

3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

That isn't what I said.  You're missing a word, and that word makes all the difference.

No, I have definitely read every word you typed. If I am interpreting it wrong, please tell me what I'm interpreting wrong. I'm no mind-reader.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[eclipse]

10 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

No, I have definitely read every word you typed. If I am interpreting it wrong, please tell me what I'm interpreting wrong.

My quote:

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Issue is that the new armors are almost all 5* exclusives/seasonals (Black Knight being one of the few exceptions, along with Zephiel).  So good luck pulling them~!

Dragons are in a similar state, except Lightning Breath is in the 3*-4* pool.

The word you're missing is "almost".  I specifically mentioned the Black Knight for a reason.  I think Zephiel's GHB is permanent, so he's impossible to miss.  If a player wasn't around for Arden/Eliwood, there's no means to obtain them now (just like the seasonals).  Everyone else is gacha (Wendy/Draug were quest rewards, but definitely not enough to +10), and good luck getting a given unit.

I haven't seen Fae on an arena team in a long time (I see more Corrins).  Either Tiki is also rare.  Nowi's still popular, though.

Edited May 15, 2018 by eclipse

[Ice Dragon]

Just now, eclipse said:

The word you're missing is "almost".  I specifically mentioned the Black Knight for a reason.  I think Zephiel's GHB is permanent, so he's impossible to miss.  If a player wasn't around for Arden/Eliwood, there's no means to obtain them now (just like the seasonals).  Everyone else is gacha, and good luck getting a given unit.

I haven't seen Fae on an arena team in a long time (I see more Corrins).  Either Tiki is also rare.  Nowi's still popular, though.

You can't make a team with just the Black Knight and Zephiel, though. I mean, you can, but they both die to nearly every blue tome in the game. You also can't make a highly merged team with either of them either (Zephiel can at least get to +5, which is somewhat decent), whereas you can with Draug, Gwendolyn, Effie, and Sheena and have them be entirely viable.

The new armors are nice to have, but really aren't necessary to build a solid armor team, and it's more cost-effective for low-spending players to build the more readily available armors instead.

Fae is probably less seen on defense teams because of her lower Def stat. Nowi's physical bulk is superior for a defense team because the breath refine effect is enough to deter most magic units from attacking. Nowi also has a generally superior color.

[SoulWeaver]

Gotta agree with the others here, though to a lesser extent - I generally run a mixed-Phase team, with my Alt account's main battle plan being 'throw Male Grima into enemy range and have Cordelia mop up if Grima somehow dies' and my Main account's team consisting of two EP Units(Heavily SI'd Roy and vanilla Brave Ike), one semi-PP Unit(Delthea with QR SI'd and the Heavy Blade Seal to help her get Miracle set up fast enough), and a Healer(Sakura).

[bottlegnomes]

@Hilda I don't disagree that there are still units that need quite a bit of help. Setting aside armors and dragons who have the BST to spread things around and not just be a mediocre jack-of-all-trades, even some as crap as Hawkeye seems like they're in a better place now than they were 8 months ago, or whenever it was they released the QR seal and stances/breaths got more common, is I guess what my point was rather than that all EP oriented units are now great.

 

1 hour ago, Shoblongoo said:

We've seen this a few times now; every "bad" unit is potentially just one sacred forge update away from being really, really good.

-Foreblaze launched Lilina from shit tier to superstar overnight 
-Raven suddenly became a viable player phase unit when he got the Basilikos
-Felicia went from neverused to most viable dagger user in the game with Felicia's Plate 

Even heroes like Sophia and Rebecca are just one Apocalypse or Reinfletche patch away from greatness. Believe it.   

It's been addressed some, but:

- Lilina was never all that bad. All forblaze did was make her self-sufficient, but with a lower ceiling, especially now that tactics and odd attack are a thing. She can potentially hit 92 attack with Raudrblade, 69 (+7 res chill effect) with Forblaze.
- Raven was always a viable PP unit. He was the best PP axe because of his IV advantage over Legion, and had the same basic statline as Tana. It's just flier benefits and firesweep that make her that much better.
- Felicia's helped a bit, but she's still not exact top tier.

The biggest boost I can think of to an individual unit from a new weapon or a refinement is Alm who went from mid-tier to top overnight thanks to a freaking brave 16 might weapon that has a built-in patch to its only drawback. I don't think Ephraim was as unimpressive as Alm pre each's refinement, but I'm very unfamiliar with Ephraim so I may be wrong.

Edited May 15, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Ice Dragon]

@Hilda @bottlegnomes

Hawkeye is actually currently tiered as high as Brave Ike. He's a slow mixed tank that runs Slaying Axe for firepower with Ignis or Glacies or Emerald Axe for sustain. Pretty much Sheena with less Def and more Atk. Somewhat comparable to Sophia.

 

@bottlegnomes

Before the refinery, Ephraim still placed rather highly due to Siegmund's innate Hone Atk 2 that made him valuable as support on top of his already good enemy-phase performance with Quick Riposte. He got even better with the refine, but it was nowhere near as large of a jump as Alm's.

[eclipse]

38 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

You can't make a team with just the Black Knight and Zephiel, though. I mean, you can, but they both die to nearly every blue tome in the game. You also can't make a highly merged team with either of them either (Zephiel can at least get to +5, which is somewhat decent), whereas you can with Draug, Gwendolyn, Effie, and Sheena and have them be entirely viable.

The new armors are nice to have, but really aren't necessary to build a solid armor team, and it's more cost-effective for low-spending players to build the more readily available armors instead.

Fae is probably less seen on defense teams because of her lower Def stat. Nowi's physical bulk is superior for a defense team because the breath refine effect is enough to deter most magic units from attacking. Nowi also has a generally superior color.

Even if I were to combine every last one of the more common armors in my barracks, I wouldn't be able to +10 any of them (Wendy might hit +8).  Black Knight could replace Draug, and having innate DC and a really high-cost special should help to alleviate the lack of merges a little.  Lack of magic really hinders it as a defensive team, since a melee physical tank who hits Res will disrupt this strategy badly.  Even if I was into climbing ranks just for the sake of climbing ranks, I'd try to find another way.

Dragons can also pull color/type cheesing, in the form of Nowi, Corrin, Kana, and Ninian (I may have kicked the everliving daylights out of this arena team before).  Of these, only one is a 5* exclusive.

[Dandy Druid]

Defense-oriented units would be more popular if they moved more than 1 space at a time.

[Junkhead]

6 hours ago, Corrobin said:

It feels like with every new banner we get, we're pushing towards more glass cannons and speedsters with every new unit. And... I'm sorry, I just don't like that. I like using tanky units, but we're in a meta where Speed and Attack are the only things that matter most of the time. 

I'd say the meta as a whole, rather than glass cannons specifically. The new things they're adding are getting pretty silly... like, seriously? Odd Wave is basically allowing Blade Tome users to auto buff themselves.

I also agree with you, that it feels too narrow that some people place too much emphasis on offense. I used to build most characters into staple L&D/Fury + Desperation, until refines started opening up different possibilities. Tanking/Mixed Phase Tanking is becoming a lot more fun. It's awesome to build your character to take negligeble damage going counter Triangle and then retaliating with 40-50 Dmg special...

 

[Alexmender]

It may be due to the tier I'm playing at but the glass cannon meta died a while ago. Mixed phase units are the best in the game right now (stuff like Zelgius, M!Grima, Hardin, Ayra, etc.) while former threats like Reinhardt, B!Lyn and Nino are suffering from the increase in bulk that refines opened. 

My team itself changed from pure Enemy phase (Ike, Hector, Nowi) to a Mixed phase due to this. Eirika works in both phases (although she can lean towards a certain one depending on her seal), Cordelia is pure Player phase to ORKO annoying reds and Sheena is pure Enemy phase. 

As far as I'm concerned pure glass cannons are the best for PvE and GC but they are extremely shaky in arena.

[Tsak]

5 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Lol, the meta is actually currently the exact opposite. Armors are the strongest units available, with Zelgius, M!Grima and Effie being the most ridiculous. Atk is still useful, but Spd is basically irrelevant because of Bold Fighter/Vengeful Fighter, and their high bulk makes them hard to one-shot and prevent you from getting doubled. Yes, they are expensive to build, but they are still the strongest, and you will see them in Arena a lot.

yeah idk what the OP tier is looking like but this is basically the truth. shit my micaiah can't even 1 shot some effie's. shit is dumb

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 hour ago, Tsak said:

yeah idk what the OP tier is looking like but this is basically the truth. shit my micaiah can't even 1 shot some effie's. shit is dumb

Hell, not even Green mages can reliably kill Berkut's Lance Effie in one hit. Effie is crazy.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Dandy Druid said:

Defense-oriented units would be more popular if they moved more than 1 space at a time.

Eldigan, Ares, Sigurd, Ike, Sophia, Leo, Tiki, Lukas, Shiro, Nowi, Kana, Ike, Hawkeye, Fae, Myrrh, and Kana would all like to have a word with you.

[Othin]

1 hour ago, Dandy Druid said:

Defense-oriented units would be more popular if they moved more than 1 space at a time.

There are now four units with Armor March. It's pretty easy to have at least one by now, if you've been pulling for it.

[Zeo]

@Dandy Druid Armor boots seal is also a thing, especially if you have a ranged armor who can potentially strike without taking damage.

But yes, overall the meta is shifted more towards enemy phase. It's funny to see someone who sees it the exact opposite. This time last year a topic like this would have been true and on fire. As of today, it's not really true at all. If glass cannons are working for you in arena, you need to climb some tiers.

[XRay]

2 hours ago, Alexmender said:

It may be due to the tier I'm playing at but the glass cannon meta died a while ago.

I do not think it is dead like Takumi dead. Brave Bow archers and Blade mages might not be as viable as before, but Firesweep archers/healers are what is hip now for Player Phase teams.

18 minutes ago, Zeo said:

 Armor boots seal is also a thing, especially if you have a ranged armor who can potentially strike without taking damage.

If only Armor March and Armor Boots can stack and allow TOD!Jakob to travel 3 spaces, we would be seeing a renaissance of Player Phase fun.

[Humanoid]

I have the choice of Darting Blow 3 or Death Blow 2 for player phase builds, or Fury 2 for enemy phase builds. Such interesting choices.

Skill exclusivity is the direction that worries me. What's been making the game rather stale for me lately isn't that I can't get the units I want, but rather that I can't affordably build those units. I know, I know, I can 5-star the likes of Hana, Bartre and Hawkeye for skills, but that's something I choose not to do. People talk about how much more generous FEH is with its 5-star rate, but are any of its competitors as heavily reliant gameplay-wise on getting 5-stars in the first place in order to get the full experience?

That's not to say I'm unhappy with the state of my barracks. Quite the opposite, I have pretty much all the parts I need, and therefore precious little incentive to go with expensive new unit inheritance, and also no incentive to ever buy orbs again, really. The net effect though is that I simply continue to do the same old content with the same old units and that surely isn't healthy in terms of long term prospects of playing. All I'm here for these days is the primitive thrill of summoning to get new novelty units that I'll likely never seriously use.

[Alexmender]

32 minutes ago, XRay said:

I do not think it is dead like Takumi dead. Brave Bow archers and Blade mages might not be as viable as before, but Firesweep archers/healers are what is hip now for Player Phase teams.

PP teams still perform quite well, it's just that that in terms of the meta they aren't at the top anymore, hence "Glass cannon meta is dead". But yeah, I don't think we'll see another fall from grace like Takumi's.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

2 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Hell, not even Green mages can reliably kill Berkut's Lance Effie in one hit. Effie is crazy.

 More like Berkut Lance is crazy isn't it. I'm surprised the ref literally puts it at +7 Res

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Just now, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

 More like Berkut Lance is crazy isn't it. I'm surprised the ref literally puts it at +7 Res

Res refine for even more Res because fuk uuuuuu

[bottlegnomes]

1 hour ago, Humanoid said:

All I'm here for these days is the primitive thrill of summoning to get new novelty units that I'll likely never seriously use.

That's uncomfortably accurate. Most of my fun from this game comes from building units I might maybe use in AA, the monthly quests, or TT after the first two runs of the day.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Having all sorts of wacky projects sounds nice, but just reading all this metagame minutiae sounds overwhelming and reminds me why I don't do competitive Pokemon, or any other game for that matter. It OUtrageous!

Sure I won't be able to totally ignore what is good and bad mechanically, and having projects intrigues my mind as well (albeit I'm going to focus probably more on themed teams like my "Radiant Rondo"). 

However! I'll probably play mostly a relaxed, more casual FE/Pokemon style, just using favorites and whatever else comes my way that I feel I have a hankering for. Maybe a free crutch once in a while. Love for my summons ain't power (supports aside and I'd probably never give my summoner's hand to anyone- no not even Sephiran), but I feel I'll be more incentivized to just let the love fest rule here than in mainline FEs, where going by love alone can make things tough and rough.

[Nanima]

1 hour ago, Alexmender said:

But yeah, I don't think we'll see another fall from grace like Takumi's.

You make him sound like he's reached Odin tier badness or something. He is still perfectly fine as a unit, just overshadowed (as well as the meta turning against both infantry and archers), which can happen to any other top tier meme unit given time. I almost wish it will happen, just so that people can have some other example to drag out at every opportunity.

[redlight]

31 minutes ago, Nanima said:

You make him sound like he's reached Odin tier badness or something. He is still perfectly fine as a unit, just overshadowed (as well as the meta turning against both infantry and archers), which can happen to any other top tier meme unit given time. I almost wish it will happen, just so that people can have some other example to drag out at every opportunity.

He just means that Takumi isn't as threatening as before since he was the only one who cold use CC before SI